Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Be...]]

Hey everyone, if I understood correctly, the Federal Government just changed their vaccine rollout to 1a and 1b, across the US.    1a is 65 or above.

1b is 64 or below with a morbidity, so if you fit into any of those and want the vaccine, just check your local sites and see if it has changed yet.  It may take a few days who knows to get in place.  Just want everyone vaccinated that wants one.      :smitten:

 

Thanks for the info, checking the state's website.

[[Mi...]]

Hi buddies,

 

During your taper did you ever experience discomfort with stomach pain, bloating and a lot of gas? Also, fatigue and flu-like symptoms? I'm feeling these things and want to know if it's probably withdrawals or something else going on.

 

Sincerely,

 

Millet

[[Tr...]]

Hi Millet,

 

Yes! All of them and many more! It's almost 100% certain it's withdrawal symptoms.

What I found during my ongoing taper is, they last a few months, then get less annoying, while new ones take over.

But the old ones often return after a few months...etc. Never a dull moment.🤤

 

Stay strong,  you'll get through this!

 

Trochsetter

 

 

[[Be...]]

Hi buddies,

 

During your taper did you ever experience discomfort with stomach pain, bloating and a lot of gas? Also, fatigue and flu-like symptoms? I'm feeling these things and want to know if it's probably withdrawals or something else going on.

 

Sincerely,

 

Millet

 

 

Benzo Belly for your first comment. You might want to check out the supplements section for a thread on Sesamin, that has helped knock down the Benzo Belly for me, and for the OP of the thread. I also keep a supply of simethecone around (Brand names Gas-x and Phazyme, but you can buy it cheaper OTC), to help with gas and bloating.

 

Your second comment? Withdrawal hell. I find myself lying down and resting during the day.

[[Br...]]

Hi buddies,

During your taper did you ever experience discomfort with stomach pain, bloating and a lot of gas? Also, fatigue and flu-like symptoms? I'm feeling these things and want to know if it's probably withdrawals or something else going on.

Sincerely,

Millet.

 

When taking Clonazepam it wasn't a thing, however at some point after switching to Diazepam it started happening. Matter of fact I've got it right now.  Often enough the stomach really distends and it's quite uncomfortable. Other times I can feel the gastro nerve endings firing.  For me, it seems to come in the evening. I take my dose, then eat and boom. Right about now the stomach feels like a puffer fish looks.  Benzolottie mentioned an OTC medicine and am thinking about giving that a try.

[[fe...]]

Hi all,

 

I am trying to support my husband through a transition from klonopin to valium. I have posted in the substitution boards, but while I was reading until someone responded to me, a few buddies had suggested that the Valium group may be able to provide insights to what is going on.

 

The situation since Christmas:

 

His tolerance withdrawal and akathisia were a nightmare at this point so tapering off seemed like the thing to do after substituting k with v, so he could stabilize...He has liquid diazepam and .125 clonazepam pills (orally dissolvable) so that he could make the smallest possible cuts. He took .125x2 4 times a day to maintain plasma concentration as well as possible. He substituted .125 from his night dose and replaced it with 2.5 ml diazepam. Day 1-5 was fine. When he rejects medication (which is SO often... very few things work for him, which is how he ended up on the benzos) his body does so violently. Day 6 was rough with emerging anxiety and the emotional part of akathisia (diazepam did help with the movement part- he went from walking over 7 miles a day in the apartment to 5 or less). Day 7 he was still having a hard time, and proceeded with substituting .125 k with 2.5 v. It did not go well. He experienced withdrawal symptoms... it was terrible.

 

The psychiatrist reasoned that the failure was likely because the equivalent dose for him is likely higher than the 1:20 ratio... he also believed that he may need more time to adjust between substitutions. Lastly he believed that my husband should go up to stabilize in order to help with a smoother transition and then taper. The psychiatrist suggested going up 10 ml diazepam to stabilize (the amount includes the substituted dose), but at 7.5 ml he was experiencing oversedation, nausea, flushing, some temperature fluctuations (high 99 to 101.3). It looked like he was being overmedicated, so he tapered the dose down to 5 ml.  Two days later he started experiencing withdrawal symptoms and akathisia terribly enough that neither he nor I knew what to do... again no sleep, couldn't eat or drink. Yesterday we reinstated the 2.5 ml he had removed.

 

After reinstating the 2.5 ml diazepam, the physical symptoms of akathisia have eased a bit but the emotional part (feeling like he wants to jump out of his skin, emotional torment) remain. He has been able to eat a little, but sleep is still a big problem. He is extremely emotional and feels hopeless right now. Tinnitus is also quite bad (it is usually not a problem, but the last couple of days it has been persistent).

 

If you can provide any suggestions or thoughts based on your experiences, I would appreciate it immensely..

[[Be...]]

feelberlin, I feel for your husband. I don't have anything to offer, but I'm sure someone experienced will reply. I switched from Klonopin to Valium and did so with no issues. I actually felt better on the Valium because I could function. Klonopin made my Executive functioning skills terrible. I used Ashton's method from her manual to switch from Klonopin pills to Valium pills. I'm sorry your husband is suffering so much, and wish I had advice to give. I'm sorry. 

[[fe...]]

Thank you for the kind words, BenzoLottie. It is our hope that he will regain some stability after crossing over and then taper very slowly. I am SO happy to hear that the cross-over is not so terrible for everyone and the positive effects of the switch give me hope. I really appreciate your thoughts.

[[Mo...]]

HI Feelberlin,

So sorry for what your husband is going through.  I can definitely empathize here as someone who has experienced that sort of hell.  Just so I'm understanding, what is the TOTAL amount C/O from and to?  Was it .5mg of klonopin total to 7.5mg/ml?  My c/o was a somewhat rough.

I experienced relief with a switch out of my first dose in many ways but I also had side effects and w/d symptoms too and almost didn't go through with it....it all subsided in time.  I will tell you, however, when I tried to switch out only half of one of my doses and take both meds at the same time, it made me feel nuts.  I had to make it so that I only took one or the other at one time and increase/decrease one of my other doses.  I don't understand why this is but it's just my experience.  I'm sorry it's not been a better transition.  Some are blessed that it works and others not so much....as in all things benzo, very unpredictable.  Your husband is blessed to have you, truly.  Hang in there!

[[fe...]]

Hi Momof7babes,

 

First, in answer to your question: he substituted 1/2 of a dose (he was taking klonopin 4 times each day) so that was .125 mg for 2.5 ml valium.

 

His schedule looked like:

 

.25 mg klonopin @ 8 am

.25 mg klonopin @12 pm

.25 mg klonopin @4 pm

.25 mg klonopin @8 pm

 

Then it became:

 

.25 mg klonopin @ 8 am

.125 mg klonopin + 2.5 ml valium @12 pm

.25 mg klonopin @4 pm

.25 mg klonopin @8 pm

 

 

After the terrible state he was in on day 7 of the crossover, the psychiatrist had wanted him to reinstate the klonopin and add 2.5 ml valium to each dose. He did reinstate for 1 day, but did not to give up his gains, so he dropped that and tried to just add 2.5 ml to the night time dose because adding another 5 ml not only seemed like overkill but it scared him so much about adding time to his taper. A week later he had to add the 2.5 ml, so this is what his current schedule looks like:

 

.25 mg klonopin + 2.5 ml valium @ 8 am

.125 mg klonopin + 2.5 ml valium @12 pm

.25 mg klonopin @4 pm

.25 mg klonopin + 2.5 ml valium @8 pm

 

Thank you for sharing your experience and your kind words- I cannot imagine someone leaving their loved one in this state... I have read that it happens, I just can't conceptualize it..

 

Much of what you say sounds very familiar- i.e. initial relief, then w/d... What I don't understand at all is the timeline that seems consistent: 5 days of ok transition followed by terrible withdrawal. I had read that klonopin binds more tightly to the receptors than valium as a theory of why the c/o can be so hard. Other than eating and not shaking, I can't say that the updose has worked wonders and I do worry about the toll that his distress over updosing is taking on him His thoughts are so dark and hopeless... and honestly, I can't say it will be okay because I know it's an empty promise in the short-term. It's hell...

[[Be...]]

 

 

When taking Clonazepam it wasn't a thing, however at some point after switching to Diazepam it started happening. Matter of fact I've got it right now.  Often enough the stomach really distends and it's quite uncomfortable. Other times I can feel the gastro nerve endings firing.  For me, it seems to come in the evening. I take my dose, then eat and boom. Right about now the stomach feels like a puffer fish looks.  Benzolottie mentioned an OTC medicine and am thinking about giving that a try.

 

 

I missed this earlier and wanted to respond to this, as I had this happen the first time when I did a too rapid taper before finding BB and reinstating because I wasn't that far off from my last dose of Diazepam. I did notice as I got to 8 mg, some of that eased up and my bowels became more normal, now I have frequent, soft, bowel movements, and have had to use OTC Loperamide to slow things down. Just letting you know that some of what you are feeling is from the Diazepam, and will ease as you get to lower doses. And then the opposite happens, as it does with everybody during W/D in the lower doses, constipation. 

[[Mo...]]

Feelberlin,

Klonopin w/d vary from each person.  I know some have had AKA and other things during c/o.  For me, it was terrible head pressure and severe muscle pain (which may have been a side effect from the Valium).  Sometimes, doctors will front load because it takes longer to build up the Valium in the system but the Klonopin, due to it's half life, is leaving sooner.  It's hard to know if this is going to be the answer for your husband....sounds like you are up on all of this and know how much every experience is different.  I crossed from Klonopin and it's been a lifesaver so far but a friend of mine did the same from Ativan 3 months ago and it's been much worse for her.  Even still, for some, early on in the c/o, it's horrible but then gets better.

 

Perhaps he should just try to take his Klonopin 2X a day and the Valium the other 2X a day and see?  How long has he been on both?  I don't know the right answers, just trying to brain storm.  When is the doctor telling him to remove the Klonopin?  If it were me, I probably wouldn't stay on both for more than a few days.  The doctors, unfortunately, just don't understand this very well and it's no wonder - the variation of response from each person is so high.  Look at Jordan Peterson's experience.....someone with all of his $ and fame and he ended up in Russia and some other poor European country and still suffered greatly but is now on the mend.  However, hope is not lost.  Many suffer tremendously like your husband, get off, and then recover and are better than ever. 

 

Hopefully some other folks can weigh in on their opinions.  Best wishes.

[[ki...]]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I also had horrible head pressure when I crossed over from Klonopin to Valium. It took about a month to completely resolve once I was only on Valium.

[[fe...]]

@[Mo...]

 

I really appreciate you sharing your experience. How long did the c/o take you? Did you take it slow or pushed through? My husband has been having such a terrible time today... I think that like you he would probably be better off when he completes the switch, but right now we are at a loss about how to get there. The emotional part of akathisia (emotional anguish, hopelessness, dark thoughts etc.) remains so bad. He can barely sleep and is so emotional... guilt and shame. The fear that there are no answers and the damage is permanent, it will never get better. I know that part of it is chemical and there is only so much to be done about it... and it's not like things are looking up right this minute. Thank you for the suggestion. His doses are not quite equivalent so we can split but maybe we can figure out the math and try it... The valium HAS helped so I really think it's worth figuring out. As to Jordan Peterson. The only mercy in this was that he was in an induced coma during the CT. I wish that was an option for everyone who wanted it in the US. To be able to be lights out and let the body heal as much as possible, rather than have to deal with w/d... I don't know if everyone would chose it, but I know that my husband would..

 

@kitsune556

 

Thank you for the (possible) heads-up. I'd like to think that he would be okay so long as he crosses, but everything appears to have gone so wrong in spite of all his planning. Did you experience relief (compared to the c/o time) once you were only on valium, or was the w/d similar.

[[Mo...]]

Feelberlin,

My c/o took about 6 weeks.  It took about 5 weeks or so for the symptoms to subside.  The Valium is a much weaker benzo than Klonopin and I do think that's part of why it can be rough for some.  I'm surprised to hear of the AKA, though, with the Valium added and no Klonopin removed.  AKA is said to be the most torturous benzo symptom for many.  I definitely can understand all of those emotional symptoms that your husband is going through as well.  It's all just awful. 

[[Ni...]]

Yesterday and today I woke up with physical anxiety in my heart area. Is this normal?

[[Mi...]]

Thank you your advice on benzo belly, community!

[[Te...]]

Hi all,

 

I am trying to support my husband through a transition from klonopin to valium. I have posted in the substitution boards, but while I was reading until someone responded to me, a few buddies had suggested that the Valium group may be able to provide insights to what is going on.

 

The situation since Christmas:

 

His tolerance withdrawal and akathisia were a nightmare at this point so tapering off seemed like the thing to do after substituting k with v, so he could stabilize...He has liquid diazepam and .125 clonazepam pills (orally dissolvable) so that he could make the smallest possible cuts. He took .125x2 4 times a day to maintain plasma concentration as well as possible. He substituted .125 from his night dose and replaced it with 2.5 ml diazepam. Day 1-5 was fine. When he rejects medication (which is SO often... very few things work for him, which is how he ended up on the benzos) his body does so violently. Day 6 was rough with emerging anxiety and the emotional part of akathisia (diazepam did help with the movement part- he went from walking over 7 miles a day in the apartment to 5 or less). Day 7 he was still having a hard time, and proceeded with substituting .125 k with 2.5 v. It did not go well. He experienced withdrawal symptoms... it was terrible.

 

The psychiatrist reasoned that the failure was likely because the equivalent dose for him is likely higher than the 1:20 ratio... he also believed that he may need more time to adjust between substitutions. Lastly he believed that my husband should go up to stabilize in order to help with a smoother transition and then taper. The psychiatrist suggested going up 10 ml diazepam to stabilize (the amount includes the substituted dose), but at 7.5 ml he was experiencing oversedation, nausea, flushing, some temperature fluctuations (high 99 to 101.3). It looked like he was being overmedicated, so he tapered the dose down to 5 ml.  Two days later he started experiencing withdrawal symptoms and akathisia terribly enough that neither he nor I knew what to do... again no sleep, couldn't eat or drink. Yesterday we reinstated the 2.5 ml he had removed.

 

After reinstating the 2.5 ml diazepam, the physical symptoms of akathisia have eased a bit but the emotional part (feeling like he wants to jump out of his skin, emotional torment) remain. He has been able to eat a little, but sleep is still a big problem. He is extremely emotional and feels hopeless right now. Tinnitus is also quite bad (it is usually not a problem, but the last couple of days it has been persistent).

 

If you can provide any suggestions or thoughts based on your experiences, I would appreciate it immensely..

 

Part of the issue is the food you eat, I reduced my symptoms  changing I little what I eat and what time I eat.

for me I eat now every 3 hours small sizes.  See a nutritionist.

 

 

[[Be...]]

Yesterday and today I woke up with physical anxiety in my heart area. Is this normal?

 

Yes! Feels like a weight on your chest. Same sympton can occur during a panic attack.

[[Ji...]]

Yesterday and today I woke up with physical anxiety in my heart area. Is this normal?

Totally normal. Once I even went to the heart hospital as I thought I wa having an attack, the doc said "why are you hear? there is nothing wrong with you"!

[[Ca...]]

I hope you can help /advise me . I was taking around 15mg Valium for years. Last year due to sheer stupidity I added Klonapin to help with anxiety. The past few weeks I have been taking mostly klonapin probably 2mg per day and the odd Valium. It obviously explains why I’ve had an upset stomach and nausea . I don’t know where to start to stop the klonapin, stabilise on Valium and start tapering. Anxiety is sky high at moment, runny nose and nausea . I hope you can give me a plan to follow as I can’t think straight. I can’t tell my doctor he will treat me like a druggy and I’ll lose his trust .

Looking forward to any help.

 

[[ki...]]

Catherine, it would be really helpful if you filled out your signature so we know more about your current dosages. Are you prescribed both Valium and Klonopin or are you getting them from alternate sources? From your post it sounds like you’re taking Klonopin regularly and Valium on occasion, is that correct?

[[Ca...]]

Hi Kit, I was taking diazepam 15 mg per day . Legally from my doctor for years . . I was given Klonapin by a friend in the summer as I had awful anxiety. I started just taking 0.5 mg per day , but the last 6 weeks I’ve been taking 2mg Klonapin and maybe only 5mg diazepam.

I also take 10mg prednisone for an autoimmune condition and at the moment anti nausea medication.

I need to get off the Klonapin and back on my prescribed diazepam ready to begin a real withdrawal.

Thank you for replying I really appreciate it. Once I have some thing to follow I can do it . I just can’t think straight to work a plan out .

[[Ni...]]

Yesterday and today I woke up with physical anxiety in my heart area. Is this normal?

Totally normal. Once I even went to the heart hospital as I thought I wa having an attack, the doc said "why are you hear? there is nothing wrong with you"!

Yesterday and today I woke up with physical anxiety in my heart area. Is this normal?

 

Yes! Feels like a weight on your chest. Same sympton can occur during a panic attack.

 

Thank you. Luckily I didn't have it today, I did had overall physical anxiety though. I attribute this start of physical anxiety to the half life of valium which is 1 week. The PA started exactly 1 week after I made my cut from 13 to 12 mg in the morning. It's still way way better than when I was first on 12 and 12 when I was in acute withdrawal all day. My addiction doctor said it was due to the risperidone because other than PA I didn't show any withdrawal symptoms like sweating or hand tremors and he wouldn't raise my valium dose. Luckily I had a big stash of 2 mg valium pills so I decided to updose to 14 and 14 and then I tapered down from that slowly. The result is amazing, I'm on 12 and 12, with just some PA throughout the day but not much and also somewhat less severe. So my doctor was wrong! It was the valium which I insisted.

[[VL...]]

Are the Mylan Diazepam still bad in 2020 /2021??  I have always taken Teva or Dan and now I have the Mylan and have read they're under dosed. I'd be thankful for any help.