SLOW TAPER SUPPORT THREAD - slow and steady is your pace

[[No...]]

   

I agree with Bart, when I can go out, eat all the Chinese food I want, drink cocktails with friends, end up with a hangover

get up at 6, run a mile then begin my day without any sx, Then I too will state as Bart, have "JUMPED".

 

          NFM

 

 

 

No, I get what you mean by "jumped" but the reality is, you have done that already... when you can do all the things you have listed, you will have healed... if you are no longer ingesting any benzo, then the jump is over already... unless you mean internal molecules leaving... maybe we need a new term for this?

 

You see, this whole process of even clearing out molecules gets me feeling exasperated... I mean, as much as I agree with slow... sometimes I think by the time my body processes out the last of the benzo, I'll be drawing a pension.

 

    Oscar, We all get exasperated with the whole process of tapering. Every word is analyzed, worn out. Healed sounds

      "accurate" over "JUMPED". Sarcasm at the end in my statement, for I get "exasperated" at the forever lingering

    doubts of what the end of benzo tapering actually feels like/is/supposed to be? Even in real life, without benzo's

    you are going to have GOOD days and NOT SO good days. it comes with the territory of being human.

 

    All I know is I am through with taking Xanax. The rest is yet to come. For this I am so grateful.

 

    May you reach your journey, Oscar with peace.

 

    NFM

[[os...]]

All I want is to get to a stage where I can comfortably start walking and doing a little more than I am currently capable of... when I compare my fatigue to the last month of 2011 into 2012, there is no comparison... I was SO fatigued it was not even funny, I felt like I was 114 years old... so, I guess sometimes I should list the things that HAVE gotten better... there are many but it still can come as a shock every now and then as to quite how long this stuff can take to get off of without suffering too much... as sometimes, some of the agony is in the taper length itself...

 

I think once a certain dose is reached, maybe the brain signals that there is less "danger" and that is when the taper can become somewhat easier... when we finally realize that this is doable after all... for some that realization seems to happen at 2 mgs, some at 1.5 mgs... but evidently, with a cautious taper, at some point, it gets a whole lot better as symptoms fall away and/or lessen in intensity... I have not had inner vibrations in weeks now but that may well return... I just do not know but there will probably come a time when that will leave for good if it hasn't already... (unlikley but I know it will in time).

 

I do believe it is possible to lose most symptoms by zero... but it is a lengthy process to get there... but with patience and without allowing the taper length to cause anxiety, we actually can micro manage withdrawal... the key is not to allow things to get out of sync which is often easier said than done... there is a fine line between allowing symptoms in order to move forward and symptoms that are disabling and it does require a lot of listening to the body and yes, a ton of patience and not everybody has the ability to just take years... I have no choice... it is either take this slowly or get back on... and for now, I'd rather keep plugging away in the hope that the anxiety that is my worst symptom when it rears it's ugly head eases off... to be entirely symptom free all the time in the lower doses is almost impossible, it is knowing when to cut, hold or updose is really important... and sometimes the body probably does process out a little more of the drug than normal and this itself can produce a symptomatic state also but normally to a lesser degree than making cuts ahead of healing ability and this is a case of when a one of dose correction can come in handy... I believe in the hot summer months I lose more by excessive perspiration... so I have to be especially cautious tapering in July and August.

[[No...]]

 

  Oscar,

 

            Truly wishing you the  best! I know when I was at my worst symptoms, my husband told me. "I have never

  seen anything like this in my life". How hard I was struggling just to maintain during the day(s). Which seemed endless

  filled with all that stuff we all know.

 

            Feel good about what you have accomplished, as looking forward into eternity is not our job.

 

  Peace to You, Oscar.

 

    NFM

[[os...]]

   

I agree with Bart, when I can go out, eat all the Chinese food I want, drink cocktails with friends, end up with a hangover

get up at 6, run a mile then begin my day without any sx, Then I too will state as Bart, have "JUMPED".

 

          NFM

 

 

 

No, I get what you mean by "jumped" but the reality is, you have done that already... when you can do all the things you have listed, you will have healed... if you are no longer ingesting any benzo, then the jump is over already... unless you mean internal molecules leaving... maybe we need a new term for this?

 

You see, this whole process of even clearing out molecules gets me feeling exasperated... I mean, as much as I agree with slow... sometimes I think by the time my body processes out the last of the benzo, I'll be drawing a pension.

 

    Oscar, We all get exasperated with the whole process of tapering. Every word is analyzed, worn out. Healed sounds

      "accurate" over "JUMPED". Sarcasm at the end in my statement, for I get "exasperated" at the forever lingering

    doubts of what the end of benzo tapering actually feels like/is/supposed to be? Even in real life, without benzo's

    you are going to have GOOD days and NOT SO good days. it comes with the territory of being human.

 

    All I know is I am through with taking Xanax. The rest is yet to come. For this I am so grateful.

 

    May you reach your journey, Oscar with peace.

 

    NFM

 

 

No sarcasm intended... it was my way of saying you did good... you are free... it is where most of us want to be at... 17 months tapering is definitely on the better side of taper lengths, given that many heal at 18 months from a CT...

 

You'll get there NFM, amazing achievement after long term use... I hope to get there someday too.

 

Healing vibes and congratulations. 

[[os...]]

 

  Oscar,

 

            Truly wishing you the  best! I know when I was at my worst symptoms, my husband told me. "I have never

  seen anything like this in my life". How hard I was struggling just to maintain during the day(s). Which seemed endless

  filled with all that stuff we all know.

 

            Feel good about what you have accomplished, as looking forward into eternity is not our job.

 

  Peace to You, Oscar.

 

    NFM

 

Thanks NFM, like they say, "One Day At A Time" right? 

 

 

[[No...]]

 

  Oscar,

 

            Truly wishing you the  best! I know when I was at my worst symptoms, my husband told me. "I have never

  seen anything like this in my life". How hard I was struggling just to maintain during the day(s). Which seemed endless

  filled with all that stuff we all know.

 

            Feel good about what you have accomplished, as looking forward into eternity is not our job.

 

  Peace to You, Oscar.

 

    NFM

 

Thanks NFM, like they say, "One Day At A Time" right? 

 

      Absolutely, Oscar. "One Day At A Time". 

[[os...]]

 

I have "Mama", "Sinister" and "The Conjuring" on blu-ray and yet I am not watching any of them until I am way lower in dose... lol... so frustrating as I want to see these films so badly but the last thing I need rightnow is to induce fearful feelings... ugh, so crazy is this journey...

 

Instead I watch "chick flick" comedies... 

[[os...]]

 

 

I like this thread. 

[[...]]

I've just posted this in the 'Withdrawal support' board, but want to repost it here as the folk I've most come to trust have been chatting here the past few days. I'd value your thoughts. Hopefully it fits with the commitments I made myself further up this thread:

 

Feedback invited. See signature for history particularly the last few months.

Have decided to updose to steady my sx, probably to 3mg V (from current 2mg). Not willing to continue on with this intensity and range of sx - too debilitating. Will then sit tight for a while.

My understanding is that coming down 10mg-2mg by 1mg/week was just too fast for my body to heal along the way, and that's causing the problems in the past few weeks while I've held at 2mg.

 

Hey bolders

Your plan looks sound to me. As you probably already know, the trick to doing a minimally symptomatic taper is to first do whatever it takes to feel as well as you possibly can and then just gently tease your dose down at whatever rate  that does not increase symptoms. Unfortunately, it seems to be a trial and error process. Different people will need to do different things. Yes, 1mg per week is really fast. I did the same thing earlier in my taper. When I started my taper in Dec of 2011 I was taking 2-4mg of Ativan a day and just started dropping the dose without any particular plan other than to take 2-3 months in coming off. I went much faster than the Ashton tables which I was unaware of and ran into trouble around .7mg of Ativan about a month later. At this time I got on the internet, discovered Ashton and followed her Valium cross and tapering schedule except that I continued to taper during the crossover. I went from 5mg to 2mg by dropping 1mg every 1-2 weeks as per her schedule. Not feeling so great, I went from 2mg to 1.7 in a week and then to 1.5mg a week later. After this, I was in deep doo doo and considering taking a leave of absence from work, couldn't exercise, weekends in bed and most of the usual w/d symptoms. At this point, I really "boned up" on everything benzo and came up with the game plan I've followed ever since which has worked out pretty well (patent pending). Some of you will get the joke. With access to a computer, Google and Pubmed, anyone can become very well equipped to do the job. BB helps mightily with the knowledge part of this and provides emotional support for those who want it. I've posted on the specifics before, but for me it took an updose, tapering up and lots of supplements to get to that pretty stable place where I felt reasonably well and could start coming back down. It did not happen overnight. I think Oscar's Australian doctor was right. It takes a long time but most people can get off benzos without too much trouble if they're willing to take the time. It helped me to forget about the calendar and to forget about benzos, withdrawal, tapering and all of this baloney for most of every day. When I'm off I'll be off and when I'm healed I will be healed. In the meantime I will have lived a pretty normal life. Good luck. An updose is not going backwards; it is all part of the journey towards being completely healed.

 

Bart

[[OM...]]

Patent pending - priceless!  :laugh:

 

I just don't understand how someone can patent daily tapers. 

[[An...]]

Hi Bart,

You talked about having taken supplements that helped with your taper.

Can you please share which ones helped you?

Thank you Bart 

God bless you, and keep you well.

Anu

 

[[...]]

Hi Anu

I take a cocktail 2-3 time a day.

It consists of vitamin c, kava kava, passion flower, chamomile tea, ps, nac, valerian root, l-theanine, mg, ashwagandha, niacinamide and fish oil. I also take Seriphos, melatonin and otc herbal sleep aids at night. The supplements seemed to help a lot at first, but now not so much. I've stopped taking some of them.

Bart

[[ke...]]

Im not sure that there is anything magical about the 2 mg level. you reference this a lot but I think its all a continuum. Because you are in tolerance, you might have to push thru. I wish you the best.

[[Sm...]]

ooo I like this: a place for someone feeling like a tortoise

Good to be here xxx

Hoping I share news of my frustration at the slowness rather then horrible withdrawal symptoms in the future

 

Peace

Smiff

[[os...]]

Im not sure that there is anything magical about the 2 mg level. you reference this a lot but I think its all a continuum. Because you are in tolerance, you might have to push thru. I wish you the best.

 

I know Perseus had a very hard withdrawal, when she reached 2 mgs things started to lift a lot for her and she started getting out walking daily and she went from strength to strength although was still tapering very slowly, there was a huge change at this dose.

 

Also JOHAN05 wrote me and said that everything started to click at 2 mg also... like the clouds parted...

 

Also mtmimi said at 2 mgs that she "knew she was going to make it now"...

 

Please do not down my hopes of this getting better at 2 mgs Keagan, often it is all I have to keep my spirits up...

 

Things did change for the better at 3 mg for me... one day I felt a shift in my brain and that happened twice, on both occasions more clarity came back, much like a dimmer switch on a light being turned up a few notches... a few more would make a huge difference.

 

I believe there will  be another shift at some point... I mean, this has to start getting better at some point... and with me it already has but it is slow... yet my gut instinct tells me it WILL get even better at 2 mgs simply because I am taking my sweet time getting there... I do not expect to be healed at 2 mg but I hope there will be a increase in my quality of life...

 

It is said that some symptoms fade and fall away as we get lower, maybe not ALL of them but certainly many... I do not believe we reach zero mg and suddenly all symptoms vanish... but with a slow taper, certainly most symptoms should leave by the much lower doses... sometimes symptoms do not leave before and this is true also, sometimes they leave at zero or after but I like to believe that my overall symptoms will be at least a little less intense at 2 mg and below... it's not asking a great deal given the time I am putting into this... if some improvement did not occur then I would start to look at getting this done sooner, although anyone that does this normally has to tolerate some increase in symptoms to get free, if at all possible, I would rather do it the gentler way... if I can... it may not work out that way but I always bear it in mind that jumping is never a good idea from a higher dose.

 

I still maintain that anyone that is truly struggling in the lower doses with intolerable symptoms possibly cut a lot larger at some point in their taper... if I am not making much better progress symptom wise at 2 mg and below, I will let everyone know that a super slow taper may not always be the best route but I still think I am doing this the right way for me... I do not want to hit zero mg in bad shape... whether or not I am wasting my time is anyone's guess... for all I know, it may get much harder but I choose to believe otherwise until I get there...

 

 

[[mr...]]

Hi Oscar,

I too have seem major improvements with my mom once she got past the 2mg mark.

Now, that she is doing daily reductions, the improvements seem faster and more steady.

 

 

[[os...]]

Hi Oscar,

I too have seem major improvements with my mom once she got past the 2mg mark.

Now, that she is doing daily reductions, the improvements seem faster and more steady.

 

Hi mrtmeo... 

 

I can't say this is getting any easier... but I can say that I have made improvements since getting lower, I have more clarity and I am not anywhere near as fogged as I used to be... also the fatigue is vastly improved... still get revved if I do too much so I still rest a lot BUT I am hoping to see some real improvement by 2 mgs... if a slow taper DOES heal, then it should happen... I felt some shift at 3 mg and so maybe that will repeat at 2 mg... I hope so anyway... there has to come a point in a slow taper where it starts to all ease off once below a certain dose... and i think that healing will really start to kick in by 2 mg and below... I get why some say otherwise but not everyone here has microtapered from day one...

 

 

[[os...]]

 

I am publicly posting this... I had a very nasty PM from a member on this thread telling me what I can and cannot post.

 

Get a life.

 

I had a bad few days and I vented about it... it is called withdrawal.

 

Please do not tell me what to post... I apologized to Bart for being grouchy.

 

The FACT is that even with super slow tapering, acute symptoms can and do sometimes crop up in some unfortunate people's tapers, even Ashton states that even with very gradual reductions, acute symptoms can still occur.

 

Sorry if this is not very good news, I have been slow tapering for a very long time and even with care, I have woken to find I have sudden vibrations and heart palpitations... I had to go on beta blockers for this reason, I even ended up with facial tics and I have NO answer as to WHY these kind of symptoms surfaced...

 

I do not have these issues any more but when I have experienced symptoms I have made a small updose as Bart has in the past also and held, that has always rectified anything remotely serious...

 

I am sorry but I have been misunderstood here, if this taper does not get better or I am not mostly healed by zero, I will be posting about it but not to discourage others but to inform... I trust this will not be the case but even the Bristol Tranquilizer helpline guy told me I was tapering too slow and "not to waste years tapering"...

 

I do not have the answers... I am healing and I am getting better but it is slow... had it not been for acute symptoms surfacing and for the anxiety that often seems to creep in, I would say that absolutely, this is the way to taper... but that does not mean it is a walk in the park all of the time either... well, it has not been that way for me... I do not think anyone has tapered from start to finish without some discomfort at times... at least with a slow taper, any problems can be rectified... it is true I suffer from anxiety more often than not but that is largely due to my duration of use... which I do point out often.

 

Posting nasty PM's is definitely not cool... sometimes we have a bad day... it happens.

 

 

[[os...]]

 

I will also add that there are PLENTY of members on here that will shove it in my face by saying that healing does not even START until we are off the drug... I do not go having a hissy fit over what is their opinion... it is not very encouraging and yet it is what it is... maybe they are right? I know of a few members that recently got off Valium and both did a sensible taper, BOTH do not regret going slow but both are of the opinion that healing does not truly start until off, so I don't know what the hell to think anymore... all I know is that I suffer if I try and speed up and that sometimes I feel maybe I am wasting time here... but if the alternative is suffering, is there any other way than this? It is for this very reason that I often wonder why I am still bothering, but I can only assume that if one is not largely healed by zero, then their taper simply was not long enough, I know one person that said 2 years to heal post a long taper BUT, and this is a very important but... that person got to the 2 mg stage in a rather erratic and rapid fashion and from a very high dose and a previous CT also... so THIS tells me that the healing did not take place sufficiently during the taper, despite it being 2 years... 2 years to lose 40 mg of Valium is still quite a rapid taper in my opinion... All I am doing here is stating facts... if it can take 3 - 4 years to heal, it's not rocket science to think that a shorter taper will always do the trick, even if it is considered to be "slow"... It goes without saying that obviously we cannot TRULY heal until we are off (meaning complete the healing) but it should not take 2 years post a longish taper and if this is the case, then the only answer I can think of is that the taper was not long enough initially... We all should have a pretty good clue as to how we are by how we feel as we taper and get lower... it is MY opinion that people do not taper for long enough... I will always maintain that for long term users, 3 years is the absolute minimum a taper should last and that is being conservative... why else would it takes 2 years to heal post a 2 year taper??? The answer has to be that the taper should have been twice as long... we only need to look at protracted folk to know this can last 3-4 years... so people need to keep their tapers slow and let healing happen along the way... it's working for me but I still feel a few bumps along the way, it's not so easy to taper the last few mgs without feeling any discomfort... but i am hoping that, like other symptoms have left, the remaining ones that i do have from time to time (anxiety mainly) ease off too.

[[So...]]

One very important thing that has been pointed out to me, by some very informed and intelligent people, is that every taper experience will be different.

 

We all walk the same path, but some will stumble along the way. Others may fall down quite often. And, others glide along just fine.

 

The point is, is that everyone will pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and make their way back to the main path.

 

It is not a race to see who finishes first or last, or who stumbled the least, or the most.

 

But, we will all share our experiences on here. That is what this forum has been created for. So, that we can all share our paths, and to help pick up the ones that may have stumbled, or fallen completely off.

 

That is why I am here. My path has now started over, and yes, I am very terrified. But, I have complete faith that as I stumble along the way, my friends on here will be on the sidelines with love, support, and encouragement.

 

Oscar, please keep traveling your path. No matter how long it takes, or how bumpy that path is, you will find your own way to the finish line.

 

And, we will all be here to cheer you on. Just as I know that you will be here to do the same for the rest of us.

 

Okay, I'm done now. 

 

Denise 

[[os...]]

 

I think the author of this thread would prefer it if I quit posting, in light that he is blocking me.

 

Thanks a bunch OMGWTH... maybe you need to rethink whether you should have started a support thread.

 

I am fine... I don't need to post here.

 

Good luck everyone and smooth tapering.

[[Bi...]]

One very important thing that has been pointed out to me, by some very informed and intelligent people, is that every taper experience will be different.

 

We all walk the same path, but some will stumble along the way. Others may fall down quite often. And, others glide along just fine.

 

The point is, is that everyone will pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and make their way back to the main path.

 

It is not a race to see who finishes first or last, or who stumbled the least, or the most.

 

But, we will all share our experiences on here. That is what this forum has been created for. So, that we can all share our paths, and to help pick up the ones that may have stumbled, or fallen completely off.

 

That is why I am here. My path has now started over, and yes, I am very terrified. But, I have complete faith that as I stumble along the way, my friends on here will be on the sidelines with love, support, and encouragement.

 

Oscar, please keep traveling your path. No matter how long it takes, or how bumpy that path is, you will find your own way to the finish line.

 

And, we will all be here to cheer you on. Just as I know that you will be here to do the same for the rest of us.

 

Okay, I'm done now. 

 

Denise 

 

Your very sweet Denise

[[So...]]

One very important thing that has been pointed out to me, by some very informed and intelligent people, is that every taper experience will be different.

 

We all walk the same path, but some will stumble along the way. Others may fall down quite often. And, others glide along just fine.

 

The point is, is that everyone will pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and make their way back to the main path.

 

It is not a race to see who finishes first or last, or who stumbled the least, or the most.

 

But, we will all share our experiences on here. That is what this forum has been created for. So, that we can all share our paths, and to help pick up the ones that may have stumbled, or fallen completely off.

 

That is why I am here. My path has now started over, and yes, I am very terrified. But, I have complete faith that as I stumble along the way, my friends on here will be on the sidelines with love, support, and encouragement.

 

Oscar, please keep traveling your path. No matter how long it takes, or how bumpy that path is, you will find your own way to the finish line.

 

And, we will all be here to cheer you on. Just as I know that you will be here to do the same for the rest of us.

 

Okay, I'm done now. 

 

Denise 

 

Your very sweet Denise

 

Well, you are definitely one of the people that has helped to put me back on my path. But, you have your work cut out for you on keeping me on it. Sucks to be you!! 

 

Denise 

[[mr...]]

 

I think the author of this thread would prefer it if I quit posting, in light that he is blocking me.

 

Thanks a bunch OMGWTH... maybe you need to rethink whether you should have started a support thread.

 

I am fine... I don't need to post here.

 

Good luck everyone and smooth tapering.

Hi Oscar,

Maybe there is some other explanation?

This was a thread created and welcome to all members and I don't think the author created it for himself.

[[So...]]

Okay, please let's keep this group going. I think that there will be so many people that can learn a possible better way of tapering, by keeping this going.

 

A slow taper could be very important for a lot of those that really don't want tondo the cut and hold method.

 

And, this is where they could come and learn from others that are currently, or recently, utilizing this method.

 

Hey, I am just getting ready to start, so don't leave me hanging here!! Ummm, please!!

 

Helllllooooo...anybody out there willing to keep this going?

 

Ummm...Bart...OMGWTH...Birdman...mrtmeo...Smiff....anybody??

 

(sigh) I guess I will just talk to myself.

 

-----

 

Hey Denise, how is your taper going?

 

Well, not too great since I haven't started yet, but now feel like an abandoned child. Lost out on the cold, dirty streets, just waiting for a handout.

 

Oh, so sorry. Well, you might get lucky if you tell Santa that this is what you want for Christmas.

 

------

 

Dear Santa,

 

I want this thread to survive and be a place for love, support, and help for those that are going through a long taper. Or, those who are planning one. Thank you.

 

 

Denise