SLOW TAPER SUPPORT THREAD - slow and steady is your pace

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SF,  Just wanted to point something out.  You say you cut .02mg V and then hold a day.  Have you tried cutting .01mg per day?  After all, the rate is the same.

 

I see a lot of people do this kind of "hybrid" thing with daily taper and I always wonder if they have ever tried cutting smaller but cutting every day.  After all, you would get to the same place by cutting .01mg and not holding as you would by cutting .02 and holding a day.  The rate is the same, but it is not the same effect.  With .01 more V stays in your body for a day.  It is different, and although it may seem unbelievable that that tiny amount could make a difference, some people do seem to be that sensitive.

 

Just my comments FWIW.  Good Luck.

[[Si...]]

SF,  Just wanted to point something out.  You say you cut .02mg V and then hold a day.  Have you tried cutting .01mg per day?  After all, the rate is the same.

 

I see a lot of people do this kind of "hybrid" thing with daily taper and I always wonder if they have ever tried cutting smaller but cutting every day.  After all, you would get to the same place by cutting .01mg and not holding as you would by cutting .02 and holding a day.  The rate is the same, but it is not the same effect.  With .01 more V stays in your body for a day.  It is different, and although it may seem unbelievable that that tiny amount could make a difference, some people do seem to be that sensitive.

 

Just my comments FWIW.  Good Luck.

 

SG my overall cut rate is around 0.015 or less. i have a 30ml syringe and i am diluting 10mg tablets in vodka-water solution in 500ml water. so 1ml=0.02mg. i will have to buy a smaller syringe with 0.5 ml graduations. right now i am planning to cut 0.02 for two days and hold 1 day. is that okay? thanks..

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SG my overall cut rate is around 0.015 or less. i have a 30ml syringe and i am diluting 10mg tablets in vodka-water solution in 500ml water. so 1ml=0.02mg. i will have to buy a smaller syringe with 0.5 ml graduations. right now i am planning to cut 0.02 for two days and hold 1 day. is that okay? thanks..

 

Whatever works is okay.   But I'd get that smaller syringe if it were me.  Why cut at a rate that requires you to hold so frequently?  The way I think of it you are able to heal up to a certain limit EACH DAY.  You say you get symptom increase by cutting .02mg, but can quickly recover by holding a day.  To me this says you heal less than .02 but not less than .01.  So trying a daily cut of .01 or .015 makes sense.

 

If it were me I'd search from the bottom up and try cutting at .01mg every day for two weeks and see how it goes.  Hopefully it will go smooth.  If so I'd then try .015mg for two more weeks.  If that goes smooth I'd re-attempt .02mg for two weeks.  To me it's about finding your highest comfortable daily cut and creating conditions where holding is not needed.

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I'm gonna chuck in a different perspective..

 

cause at the moment I am liking cutting daily more then I could maintain for long and then holding. I cut 0.04 for 6 days and rest for 5. I prefer it then constant cutting at this point. It just tends to distill crappiness into one spot and distill a bit of relief into the other part.

 

It is working for me at the moment.. as much as anything in benzo w/d does.

 

As far as I see it there is cut, then hold, a daily taper and anything imbetween. The plus of cut and hold for a lot of people is they know they'll feel crappy and just get past it till they can feel the benefits of the hold. You get that with this too: you feel crappy but you get through your 6 days and then get a rest. I'm preferring it at the moment to trying to nail the perfect daily cut rate.

 

Like SG said... Anything that works is good. Rests may be what your brain/body like SF. If rests is what it wants then give it rests.

[[dp...]]

Does anyone here do the liquid titration with just water? Is vodka, milk... really necessary. I've heard arguments on both sides and it's essential I get this right... thanks all.

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Does anyone here do the liquid titration with just water? Is vodka, milk... really necessary. I've heard arguments on both sides and it's essential I get this right... thanks all.

 

People who know pharmachology and or pharmacists agree: vodka/milk is necessary. Valium doesn't dissolve in water.

If you don't do this right you will over think it. So just do it right from the outset and you're golden.

 

[[Si...]]

hi dpier1987. i learned about vodka-water solution from Okatz too. it worked well for me so far.

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hi fellow turtle taperers. hope you are all feeling better as time passes. i feel so much better now compared to more then half a year ago before i switched from Xanax to Valium.

 

im currently at 6.60mg and cutting 0.02 for 2-3 days in a row and then hold for 1 day. i have appetite now and gained back some weight. my sleep is better and when it goes bad its a sign for me to slow down and hold. i have recently increased my daily walking and im slowly introducing slow jogging (i used to run for an hour straight before this mess). i plan to introduce weight training slowly soon too and cut down on smoking. i have more times where i can feel positive now. depression and anxiety are still there especially when i cut too fast but theyre not as often and as bad as before.

 

i feel like like i can try going faster in cutting now. any of you did a daily micro taper found that they were able to speed up cutting as they went down in dose?

like most of us i want to be off this quicker if my body allows it. i have somewhat accepted that it will take me 2-3 years to fully heal from this but if i can get off faster why not. it worries me that as slow as i am going right now, i might need to slow down even more at the lower doses. i really hope not, basing on the theory that people get stuck on the lower doses because they tapered too quickly in the beginning and the cuts are catching up. any thoughts? thanks all..

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Hi SF

I picked up the pace a couple of times for short periods of time and then went back to my previous cut rate. However, it seemed I mostly slowed my taper or held more and more as my doses got smaller. At a 6mg dose and a cut rate of .02 you may be able to speed up a little, but I would not hesitate to immediately hold or slow down at the first sign of trouble. Valium tapers seem to have a nasty habit of sneaking up and hitting you with increased symptoms seemingly out of the blue. In the end, as long as you're cutting you are healing and you may as well feel as good as you possibly can during the taper. It helped me to not project a completion date or any goal other than to wind up completely healed with a minimal amount of suffering along the way. You will get better at picking up on subtle early symptoms to guide your taper rate as you go along.

Good luck.

Bart

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thanks bart. you know you were the first one i thought of when i posted that question! i think im getting better at listening to my body. like i said my sleep deteriorates then i know i need to hold. also, as i take most of my daily dose in the earlier parts of the day, when i become restless by late afternoon to evening, its i sign i went too fast and have to hold again. i hope i can do what you did bart. thanks so much..

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Hey SF

 

I had to be slower from 8-7mg then I am was from 6-5mg. So there are times when  you can go faster when you are lower. I don't know why. It is interesting you are finding below 7 easier. I know a few people who've found between 9-7 a bit sticky. I know I did.

 

You are right on listening to your body 

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thanks smiff. for the last 4 months+ i have been cutting around 0.30-0.40mg per month only. at that rate, im looking at 17-22 months to get to zero assuming a linear cut rate. so if i cannot cut more that 0.02mg per day so be it. i just really pray that i could maintain the 0.30-0.40mg per month down to zero if not faster. we all have seen people have to go slower at the lower doses and i hope i dont have to because i started slowly from the beginning.

 

the time frame im talking about sometimes makes me depressed and anxious just by thinking of it.. i see someone going from 10mg to 0.5mg in half a year doing ashton style. before that he was very unstable and symptomatic for many months after CT and a reinstatement. he was on diazepam for more than a decade. his situation is even complicated by thyroid issues. im shaking my head in disbelief. im so jealous of those who can go faster.

 

i was just unlucky enough to have a sensitive cns from childhood trauma, and lifelong stresses. another thing was the ssri that further disrupted my fragile brain..

im generally okay these days i just have to vent sometimes. thanks all for your help. we will all get past through this if we just refuse to give up..

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You are doing great SF

That time will pass before you know it.

 

Did your friend get off without many symptoms post jump? I'm often amazed at the possibility too.

 

We'll get there 

[[Si...]]

he/she is a BB member i just saw today. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=27453

he is currently at 0.5mg V.

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ok well SF it looks to me like that person is suffering just like the rest of us 

 

actually I've been lucky of late and barely suffering so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing