Jsince - may need to consider titration

[[Js...]]

OK, I have officially started titration. Got the last of the stuff that I needed from the local pharmacists last night, he was very helpful, gave me some small syringes to help to remove the excess and also so pill bottles that are water tight to transport the liquid for the midday dose.

 

So, since I have started I of course have a couple of questions:

 

I started w/ a 1ml cut from 75m (.75mg) to .74 (.74mg) today, should I hold for awhile to be accustomed accustomed to the new liquid blend or can you start right off making the 1ml daily?

 

Can I mix up the next days dosages the night before? Kind of a hassle to do it in the morning and get ready for work, I'm already getting out the door much later than I prefer. In other words, once mixed into liquid is there a shelf to be concerned with?

 

Lastly, once I get down to where my midday dose is almost nonexistent do I then stop that and go to twice a day, right now I take 1/2 of the total at night, 1/3rd in the morning and then 1/6 in the afternoon, kinda of a 3,2,1. So as you can see after awhile that midday dose will disappear or become extremely small to work with, and the same will eventually happen to the morning dose. With my current scenario do these doses finally fall off the map.

 

 

I sure hope this goes well, so many people have had success with it and it's the most logical way of reducing. It was nice to actually know you were taking a chuck of a pill, now it's this cloudy yellowish liquid but I have to assume that it's in there

 

By the  way, I am using water as a medium.

 

Thanks again Colin for you help with this,

 

Jim

[[Th...]]

can you start right off making the 1ml daily?

 

You should be fine starting your cuts right away. 

 

Can I mix up the next days dosages the night before? Kind of a hassle to do it in the morning and get ready for work, I'm already getting out the door much later than I prefer. In other words, once mixed into liquid is there a shelf to be concerned with?

 

I always made mine up the night before.  I know with milk, 3 days in fridge was about the limit but that is more having to do with the milk. I have not seen any info how long the shelf-life with water would be but I'm sure it is at least 3 days. Don't think you should need more than that??

 

Lastly, once I get down to where my midday dose is almost nonexistent do I then stop that and go to twice a day, right now I take 1/2 of the total at night, 1/3rd in the morning and then 1/6 in the afternoon, kinda of a 3,2,1. So as you can see after awhile that midday dose will disappear or become extremely small to work with, and the same will eventually happen to the morning dose. With my current scenario do these doses finally fall off the map.

 

Have you considered moving your dose closer to even throughout the day and see if that works okay? That way, all dosing will fall off at the same time?? Just a thought. If you do decide to do that, adjust it slowly over many days.

 

Also, if using water, make sure it is well agitated before pulling out your reduction. 

 

 

[[Js...]]

Hi T2, and thanks for the reply.

 

A. Glad I can start reducing since that is what I have already done.

 

B. Trying to get the doses even throughout the day maybe a challenge. I have had insomnia issues, that was one of the reasons that I was on the K to begin so I have keep the nightime dose a little higher throughout for that reason, that was a recommendation by others on the forum, then the morning has been my worst time so that dose was a little higher. That leaves the afternoon dose which is my best time and thus the lowest in the group.

 

I thought about going to a 2x per day but Colin thought that may or may not work for me. I could just move the afternoon dose to morning, then have 2 daily dose of the same size but as you probably know by now I'm a little decision/change phobic and don't want change to cause issue.

 

 

Let me know what you think about keeping them the same and letting them drop off, vs. 2x a day, or a plan to even them out.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

 

[[Th...]]

I would just keep what you're doing now, it can always be adjusted pretty easily if you need to. 

[[Js...]]

Thanks T2, that's what I was thinking. It doesn't become an real issue until the last 10ml and by that point it is a pretty small amount.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jim

[[Co...]]

You can always measure out your 10ml, and top this up with additional milk. Same dose, but a greater volume for easier divisions.

[[Js...]]

Thanks Colin, that is very good advice and makes sense.

 

Just an update, I have been at the 1ml cuts for about 1 week now, I think I'm down to .67. The first few days were a little rough, especially in the mornings (I know that many have problems with the morning). This past Sunday morning was particularly bad (very depressed), but now the past 2 days things have kinda settled down and even though I am still very tired in the morning the depression seems to have lifted, at least for the most part.

 

Thanks again all,

 

Jim

[[Pa...]]

Thanks Colin, that is very good advice and makes sense.

 

Just an update, I have been at the 1ml cuts for about 1 week now, I think I'm down to .67. The first few days were a little rough, especially in the mornings (I know that many have problems with the morning). This past Sunday morning was particularly bad (very depressed), but now the past 2 days things have kinda settled down and even though I am still very tired in the morning the depression seems to have lifted, at least for the most part.Thanks again all,

 

Jim

 

[[Js...]]

thanks Pam

[[...]]

Jim,

 

I am glad to hear titration is going well.   It won't be long and you will be an old pro.  I think you will find titration to be a smooth process in the long run.

 

Tim

[[Js...]]

Thanks TC.

 

I have a question for you that I think we have covered but just want to be sure. When you say that you reduced by 10& per week, was that a linear 10% from the starting point, in other words you started at 1mg in 100ml and then reduced by .10 per week, so basically a little more than 1ml per day?

 

or

 

did you do an actual 10% so when you were at 40ml, you reduced 10% of that for the week, so 4ml, and then when you were at 30ml, you reduced 3ml for that week.

 

Thanks again for the clarification,

 

Jim

[[Js...]]

Question for Colin, T2, whomever would like to comment.

 

I am currently at .61ml, started at .75 and have been cutting by 1ml per day. In general it has been going OK, can't say I feel "great" but able to work, function, socialize, so in general haven't been too bad, a few very depressed moments but thank god they go away. Sleep is starting to get impacted but I guess that was to be expected.

 

Here is my question.

 

I currently am on 3 doses daily. Today I at .61 total, it's divided into 20ml morning, 10ml afternoon and 31ml at night. I have been reducing the total in a rotating fashion across the 3 doses, thus remove 1ml form morning, then next day 1ml from afternoon, then 3rd day 1ml from night and then I start over.

 

So, eventually the afternoon dose will be at 0, the morning dose will be at 10 and the night will be at 20ml. Then 20 days later the morning dose will be at 0 and the nightime dose will be my only dose at 10ml and go down form there over the next 10 days.

 

Does that make sense, is the plan OK. I have been told to keep my nightime dose the highest and the last to go because of my sleep issues. Let me know what you think and if you don't agree with the direction I am taking please let me know what you would suggest I do.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Jim

[[Th...]]

Looks okay to me, you can always make adjustments if needed.    I didn't have sleep issues, so I would mix my batch, remove the designated amount for the day and then I just divided what was left into approximate 3 doses.

[[Co...]]

You should do whatever works for you. However, You might find that as your middle dose lowers, you might suffer from interdose withdrawal effects. If you notice this beginning to occur, stabilise your middle dose, and reduce the other two doses until your dosing is more equalised. Then switch back to reducing your doses in stepwise fashion, across all three doses.

[[Js...]]

Thanks T2 and Colin, sounds good.

 

I'll keep on the current plan and see what happens.

 

As always, thank you!

[[Js...]]

Colin/T2 (others),

 

another question as I get lower. Right now I am approaching .50ml/.50mg of Klonopin and have been reducing at 1ml per day, this is stuff you already both know.

 

that would equate to 10mg of Valium according to Prof. Ashton. In looking at her taper guides last night she suggests when you are at 10mg or less of Valium to make 1mg every 2 weeks. At the current rate of 1ml a day I am making 2mg reductions every 10 days (.10ml/10mg K = 2mg Valium).

 

I know that many have done OK with this rate (some much higher) and that it's all up to the individual. I am just curious since we are really deviating from what Prof. Ashton recommends is that wise for me.

 

Up until about the .60 mark things have been somewhat OK but lately, down to .54 today, my sleeping is definitely getting more fragmented, some additional muscle pains (may not be related though) and depression is getting worse, that is probably the biggest problem and I don't know if it was the Cipro reaction that is causing it to manifest as I come of the Klonopin or the Klonopin itself. Who knows what is causing what, I do know that  I'm on the verge of strongly considering an AD. I really don't want to but also don't want the depression and "very" intrusive" thoughts to yet cause me additional problems and turn into something bigger than they are now. I know I could slow down but only want to do that if you think it would help or do I just keep crashing ahead?

 

Your thoughts about an AD would be greatly appreciated as well.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

Jim

[[Js...]]

as a followup to my last note the Dr. at the insomnia clinic I am working with here in Rochester has suggested that I hold at the present .54ml for a week to stabilize my sleep pattern and then start back up again but suggested that I reduce 1ml over 2 days instead on every day. At her clinic she usually suggests that her patients reduce at a rate pf .125mg every 3 weeks.

 

Comments?

 

also still would like comments on the previous post as well.

 

Jim

[[Co...]]

Hi Jim,

 

Professor Ashton does not prescribe a particular taper rate - her suggestions are ballpark numbers. She advocates adjusting the taper rate to suit the individual. BenzoBuddies subscribes to the idea that it is for individual to determin their taper rate. There is much variability in suitable taper rates. If you feel that your present taper rate is too steep for you, then slow your taper rate.

 

Your suggestion of reducing your taper rate from a 1ml reduction per day to a 1ml reduction every other day, sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[[Js...]]

Thanks Colin, that is what I may have to do, my sleep is getting hit pretty hard over the past 3 days and the depression/anxiety has been ramping up too. I think I may hold for a week and then start an every other day reduction, hate extending it but also hate feeling like crap.

 

Jim

[[Js...]]

Quick question on the taper. I am now at .47ml/.47mg, I am still crushing 2 - .5mg tablets and adding them to the 100ml and throwing out now 53ml. Would you suggest I continue on w/ crushing 2 pills or now that I am below the .50 mark to just crush 1 - .5mg and add it to 50ml of water?

 

Does it make a difference? I have plenty of pills so I'm not worried about wasting any, just didn't know if there are any reason to use 2 pills over 1. I know that I could make up 2 batches but I like doing it every night, that way I can gauge how I feel and cut or hold accordingly.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jim

[[Th...]]

Quick question on the taper. I am now at .47ml/.47mg, I am still crushing 2 - .5mg tablets and adding them to the 100ml and throwing out now 53ml. Would you suggest I continue on w/ crushing 2 pills or now that I am below the .50 mark to just crush 1 - .5mg and add it to 50ml of water?

 

Does it make a difference? I have plenty of pills so I'm not worried about wasting any, just didn't know if there are any reason to use 2 pills over 1. I know that I could make up 2 batches but I like doing it every night, that way I can gauge how I feel and cut or hold accordingly.

 

Thanks again,

 

Jim

 

It is up to you on how you want to do it, it really doesn't make much difference the end result is the same. 

[[Js...]]

that is what I figured but didn't know for sure.

 

Thanks T2

[[...]]

Jsince,

 

I have some additional info that backs up what you are planning to do and may help your sleep cycle.  This is one pharmacist's opinion....I actually sat down and talked to a pharmacist AFTER my taper.....he is also on klonopin....he said he will be coming off shortly....he said he will be reducing .125 mg every 4 weeks.  I know that seems like a long time, but he stated that it was a much smoother transition.  I didn't ask why he was on the klonopin, so I have no idea how long he has been on or anything like that...but that was his plan for coming off..and he thought that even though the taper would be a long one...that it would give his body time to heal during the taper.

 

I think you have been doing great...and I hope this new info doesn't confuse you...but I wanted to relay the info given to me by someone reducing the med who has pharm knowledge too....I see you have already recieved really good advice from Colin and T2..i hope my two cents didnt confuse the issues...

 

Keep up the good work...

 

Tim

[[Co...]]

Quick question on the taper. I am now at .47ml/.47mg, I am still crushing 2 - .5mg tablets and adding them to the 100ml and throwing out now 53ml. Would you suggest I continue on w/ crushing 2 pills or now that I am below the .50 mark to just crush 1 - .5mg and add it to 50ml of water?

 

Does it make a difference? I have plenty of pills so I'm not worried about wasting any, just didn't know if there are any reason to use 2 pills over 1. I know that I could make up 2 batches but I like doing it every night, that way I can gauge how I feel and cut or hold accordingly.

 

Hi,

 

So, have been making up a liquid with two 0.5mg tablets (for a total of 1mg) and were adding this to 100ml of water, and you are now to 47ml (0.47mg) - is this correct? If so, you can instead add one pill (0.5mg) to 50ml, and start from 47ml. There is no reason to use two pills over one.

[[Js...]]

Ho Colin & TC.

 

Colin, that is correct and that is what I thought, I will start to just to use 1 pill now.

 

TC, actually your comments are pretty close to those given to me by the Director of the Insomnia Clinic that I have visited in Rochester, she suggests to her patients that they reduce by .125mg ever 3 weeks so very similar to the advice given to you by the pharmacist. I can say that when I held at .50 for a few days last week things really settled down, I slept better, my anxiety was better, the morning crap was better, all in all I felt pretty good even with 2 pulled teeth. Now that I am back to cutting by 1ml per day, after 4 days I can start to feel it again, sleep getting worse, anxiety/depression rising, etc.... I may indeed slow things down to more closely match the advice we have been given and which when you look at it is close to what Prof. Ashton recommends when you get low amount. Basically cutting 1mg of Valium (or equivalent 5ml/.05mg of Klonopin) every 7 - 14 days. That would basically be the same that the pharmacist told you and the insomnia person told me. I will try to keep things moving a little faster if I can but I need to be functional and work, at this point what's another month or two, right?

 

Thanks again to the both of you.

 

TC, by the way. How are you feeling?

 

Jim