The Klonopin Klub

[[ja...]]

I've got 111 days today and I haven't checked back on this forum in a while.

 

As far as tapers go, I went basically cold turkey on May 21. Went through an absolute living hell, survived.

 

Like a lot of you are saying, meditation is the best thing there is for withdrawal and as a practice in general. I don't know how I'd be without it, truthfully!

 

Keep fighting, my friends! 

[[re...]]

Jaxnj, 111 days--that's fantastic!  And I'm so glad to see another vote for meditation as one thing at least to consider as part of one's withdrawal process.  I now feel it's something I should have been doing since years ago, benzo or no benzo, withdrawal hell or no.  At any rate, better late than never, and I do feel so strongly that it can help ease the transition, and keep helping even after all or most symptoms are gone.

 

Meditation, not medication.  If at all possible.

 

Anyway . . . you go girl!

 

Cheers,

 

R

[[to...]]

Jax

 

are you still symptomatic?

[[ja...]]

There are some days that my right leg is out of control, mostly when I don't get a lot of sleep. And sleep is a problem about 70% of the time. I take some Benedryl for sleep, which helps, but I wake up sluggish and risk my leg vibrating again. Last night was interesting. I put Benedryl on my nightstand "just in case" and I slept ok knowing it was there. Weird, right?

 

I'm having foot surgery in 2 days which makes me nervous because I'm going to need a narcotic for pain. It's gotten so I HATE any kind of drug that affects my mood, and every drug seems to affect me.

 

But all in all, I'm really satisfied with how it's going. I'm heading toward 4 months (unbelievable!) and doing ok. It took me a good 2 months until I felt some semblance of normal. I just finished therapy with an addiction therapist who kept telling me, through withdrawal hell, that what I was experiencing is normal and would go away. My answer was always "when???" but it really did happen.

[[ja...]]

Jaxnj, 111 days--that's fantastic!  And I'm so glad to see another vote for meditation as one thing at least to consider as part of one's withdrawal process.  I now feel it's something I should have been doing since years ago, benzo or no benzo, withdrawal hell or no.  At any rate, better late than never, and I do feel so strongly that it can help ease the transition, and keep helping even after all or most symptoms are gone.

 

Meditation, not medication.  If at all possible.

 

Anyway . . . you go girl!

 

Cheers,

 

R

 

 

R,

 

I thought that was MY catch-phrase, haha! But yes, seriously, meditation kicks royal ass. 

 

j

[[re...]]

Hey, it could be a catch-phrase for all of us . . . or at least everyone dealing with this issue who's receptive to the idea of meditation!  It's so good to know that you're doing all right!

 

Cheers,

 

R

[[So...]]

Hey,

 

I just saw this thread and thought I'd jump in here, hope that is OK...

 

So I've been doing a liquid taper off Klonopin for several months now, slowly, and am now down to .06mg (from .5). I think my brain is realizing this taper is coming to an end as I've had more vivid dreams lately. Not nightmares, thank goodness, but weird for me. I am getting anxious about my sleep pattern though.

 

I get about 4-5 hours of sleep straight now, down from 6-7, and am lucky if I can convince my brain/body to get back to sleep after that, usually not. I'm doing OK but I'm not sure if I should slow down the taper maybe? I've heard Klonopin is really really hard to get off of, especially towards the end. Is that true?

 

My other symptoms are brain fog, some abdominal pain and tinnitus (ear ringing). I also feel dizzy/woozy at times but perhaps that is because I don't sleep so well. I work so I need the sleep and the least amount of w/d symptoms to deal with.

 

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[[In...]]

Perhaps I should consider joining the K club here. I'm crossing over from X in a very structured way, and will be fully on K most likely in the next several weeks.

 

And although I frankly hear a lot of K bashing ( not necessarily on this thread), but across the spectrum of BB, this is where I'm headed.

 

And after a period of stabilization, I do plan a taper from K. So just for the sake of clarity, I can say that this is not my first experience with K (a whole story in itself), and this past year, I've been switched from X to K to X to K.

 

And I do find that by comparison, K causes some depression and nausea that I never felt on X. But they are very different in the way they affect the brain so these must be taken into account. And I just so often hear such "scary" sx attributed to K, but I can honestly say that X w/d is no piece of cake. I'm experiencing it now during this exchange, and have previously during a taper off X that I could not continue.

 

So those X w/d sx would be burning skin, cog fog and rather severe left sided dental pain. As I grow closer ( and I'm close ) to being on K, and then tapering, I'll know more for myself what is true for me and what isn't. I just wanted to comment as I so often read about K being such a difficult drug to get off of, and I read that SO much here on BB. Just today, I read it was the most powerful benzo on the planet. That took me aback a bit. Well, I guess each has their own story to recount about their own individual benzo being the most difficult.

 

Intend

[[ja...]]

Intend -

 

I was on both, Xanax for 5 years, Klonopin for 15. I came off Xanax but never transitioned, per se, to Klonopin. It was switched because at the time K was new and supposed to be "better".

 

As far as bad w/d, I will say this: I have had both my hips replaced and the withdrawal from Klonopin was a lot worse than the recovery from hip replacement surgery. Please don't just think twice, but think a LOT about going onto the K. There is nothing, nothing worse than trying to get off that horrific drug.

 

It's not just psychological. It's physiological. I completely lost my short term memory and almost was fired because of it...and so many more things. Stop planning to go on the Klonopin, just plan on tapering the X and being done with it. I lost 20 years of my life...I don't wish that on anyone!

 

jaxnj

[[In...]]

Jaxnj,

 

Well it's a little late for me to take your advice for various reasons. First of all, I can't go back to X as I had taken it only at night and not at all during the day. When I was switched over to K, I ended up splitting the dose into twice per day.

 

When the doc put me back on X ( long story here), my body would not accept X the same way anymore, and even on more doses and 2 up doses, I was in I/W. So this train can't go in that direction. Plus, I've been switching since 6/5 so this has been a long haul for me.

 

Like I said, lots of scary stuff about K, and maybe here also. I'll have to read this thread in it's entirety to see if anyone has anything good or even just ok about K. I sure know it's Rxed plenty now. Maybe that's why there are so many complaints.

 

Thanks for your advice and concern. If this thread is super negative, it's not for me. Not needing lollipops and roses here, but no need to be constantly morose and demoralized. Benzo w/d is hard enough as everyone know. Thanks again for your concern.

 

Intend

[[fi...]]

Hey,

 

I just saw this thread and thought I'd jump in here, hope that is OK...

 

So I've been doing a liquid taper off Klonopin for several months now, slowly, and am now down to .06mg (from .5). I think my brain is realizing this taper is coming to an end as I've had more vivid dreams lately. Not nightmares, thank goodness, but weird for me. I am getting anxious about my sleep pattern though.

 

I get about 4-5 hours of sleep straight now, down from 6-7, and am lucky if I can convince my brain/body to get back to sleep after that, usually not. I'm doing OK but I'm not sure if I should slow down the taper maybe? I've heard Klonopin is really really hard to get off of, especially towards the end. Is that true?

 

My other symptoms are brain fog, some abdominal pain and tinnitus (ear ringing). I also feel dizzy/woozy at times but perhaps that is because I don't sleep so well. I work so I need the sleep and the least amount of w/d symptoms to deal with.

 

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

If it were me, I would definitely slow the taper down.  I have had similar w/d sxs as you have, usually when I am cutting too fast.  Perhaps some other buddies can jump in here, but slowing it down is what I would do personally.  I am also titrating from Klonopin (using water).

 

Wishing you well ...

[[fi...]]

Jaxnj,

 

Well it's a little late for me to take your advice for various reasons. First of all, I can't go back to X as I had taken it only at night and not at all during the day. When I was switched over to K, I ended up splitting the dose into twice per day.

 

When the doc put me back on X ( long story here), my body would not accept X the same way anymore, and even on more doses and 2 up doses, I was in I/W. So this train can't go in that direction. Plus, I've been switching since 6/5 so this has been a long haul for me.

 

Like I said, lots of scary stuff about K, and maybe here also. I'll have to read this thread in it's entirety to see if anyone has anything good or even just ok about K. I sure know it's Rxed plenty now. Maybe that's why there are so many complaints.

 

Thanks for your advice and concern. If this thread is super negative, it's not for me. Not needing lollipops and roses here, but no need to be constantly morose and demoralized. Benzo w/d is hard enough as everyone know. Thanks again for your concern.

 

Intend

 

Intend, I think it just depends on the person as to how hard it is for them to get off of a particular benzo.  I have heard that Xanax was the hardest to come off of, so it seems to vary individually.  However, I have been on Klonopin for several years and am currently titrating to come off of it.  I have had multiple chemical sensitivities, so my pdoc didn't want to switch me to Valium or another benzo unless it was a last resort. 

 

At any rate, just wanted to let you know that I'm on Klonopin and plan on tapering directly from that.  I am currently down to 1.58 mg.

 

Wishing you well ...

[[pi...]]

Intend -

 

I was on both, Xanax for 5 years, Klonopin for 15. I came off Xanax but never transitioned, per se, to Klonopin. It was switched because at the time K was new and supposed to be "better".

 

As far as bad w/d, I will say this: I have had both my hips replaced and the withdrawal from Klonopin was a lot worse than the recovery from hip replacement surgery. Please don't just think twice, but think a LOT about going onto the K. There is nothing, nothing worse than trying to get off that horrific drug.

 

It's not just psychological. It's physiological. I completely lost my short term memory and almost was fired because of it...and so many more things.  just plStop planning to go on the Klonopin,an on tapering the X and being done with it. I lost 20 years of my life...I don't wish that on anyone!

 

jaxnj

 

Hello jaxnj,

 

You are welcome to impart your experience and let members know what you would do in a particular situation but you do need to stop short being prescriptive in your suggestions.  It is not for you to tell anyone what to do, each person must make a decision that works for them, that they can live with.  Remember please, that prescriptive writing is against forum rules. I will ask you to review these guidelines for future reference:

 

•Please adopt a non-prescriptive writing style. Relating your experiences, stating options, or posting suggestions of what other members might do, are all welcome. However, advising members of what they should or must do is against the ethos of the BenzoBuddies Community. Nor should you attempt to 'diagnose' medical problems or suggest medical treatments for other members. This policy also applies to members with medical qualifications. A more detailed explanation of this policy can be found in our Guidelines Regarding the Giving of Medical Advice document.

 

We are all unique individuals and will react differently to medications as well as withdrawal. Benzo Buddies is a peer support forum, lets keep the support aspect front and center.   

[[In...]]

fg,

 

I know you're titrating directly from K, and from what you've been saying, so far so good. I also have heard that Xanax is the most difficult benzo to come off of, although there are some folks on the Xanax thread who are successfully or have successfully done it.

 

I completely agree with you about this being very individual. I mentioned a few w/d sx I had while tapering Xanax, but in truth there were many more, and severe muscle and joint pain are included along with tinnitus. I just know for a fact that while K is powerful w/o doubt, X is equally very powerful as I was unable to manage even an exchange of .25 mgs X for .25 mgs K on a total dose of 3 mgs X on my very first exchange on 6/5. I had to go to the ER on 6/14 with such severe X w/d sx.

 

This means that X has tremendous affinity for my receptors and is VERY powerful, at last for me.

And even now, as I'm making these last small exchanges, I am experiencing X w/d in significant sx.

 

I hope to simply replace X with K, stabilize for a time, and then begin a structured w/d from K. My plan is to take this one day at a time, but don't have a plan that has me on K for many years. In that way, perhaps I can avoid the receptor affinity with K that I've had with X.

 

fg, as always, i find you to be very easy to express my thoughts to. Thank you for being such a great support person for so many on BB.

 

Intend

[[fi...]]

fg,

 

I know you're titrating directly from K, and from what you've been saying, so far so good. I also have heard that Xanax is the most difficult benzo to come off of, although there are some folks on the Xanax thread who are successfully or have successfully done it.

 

I completely agree with you about this being very individual. I mentioned a few w/d sx I had while tapering Xanax, but in truth there were many more, and severe muscle and joint pain are included along with tinnitus. I just know for a fact that while K is powerful w/o doubt, X is equally very powerful as I was unable to manage even an exchange of .25 mgs X for .25 mgs K on a total dose of 3 mgs X on my very first exchange on 6/5. I had to go to the ER on 6/14 with such severe X w/d sx.

 

This means that X has tremendous affinity for my receptors and is VERY powerful, at last for me.

And even now, as I'm making these last small exchanges, I am experiencing X w/d in significant sx.

 

I hope to simply replace X with K, stabilize for a time, and then begin a structured w/d from K. My plan is to take this one day at a time, but don't have a plan that has me on K for many years. In that way, perhaps Incan avoid the receptor affinity with K that I've had with X.

 

fg, as always, i find you to be very easy to express my thoughts to. Thank you for being such a great support person for so many on BB.

 

Intend

 

Thank you for the kind words, Intend.  I think you have a good plan laid out and I certainly wish you success.  The good thing is that Klonopin has a longer half-life than Xanax, so hopefully the w/d sxs will be kinder to you.

 

I wish you well and hope your taper (once you do start tapering) goes smoothly.

[[De...]]

I was crossed over from 3 to 4mg Xanax to 2mg Klonopin.  There's very little comparison between the withdrawals.  Getting off Xanax, I had to move - I probably walked close to 200 miles, and exercise would cut a wave short.  The acute Klonopin w/d - a depth of fear and despair I couldn't have comprehended until I experienced it.  But I'd made a 50% cut.  I know if I take it slow enough, there will be little to no sxs.  I'm not worried about the time it will take anymore - as long as I don't go back to that place.  And it stands to reason that if you cut slow enough, your brain can re-upgrade receptors at a rate that prevents acute withdrawal, or even withdrawal at all.  I know it can be done - I intend to find that perfect percentage/hold time.

 

Everyone's experience is so different.  I would not have been able to taper off Xanax directly - the half-life was just too short, but I know there are people who have done it very successfully.  And there are people doing just fine tapering off Klonopin.  Unfortunately, this is all trial and error.  The best support and I believe the method that will work best for me has not come from doctors or the Ashton Manual, but from the experience and knowledge of the people on this forum - people who know what it feels like - who have actually been there.  I've drawn from the experiences of many, and I believe I know how to proceed.  I know I will be successful - success is the only option.

[[In...]]

Deinoncote,

 

Good attitude. I happen to think that most of these benzos are problematic and experiences are individual. I know I have to give this a shot myself.

 

I'm not expecting any of this to be fun, and I agree with your concept of just letting your own body be your guide. I'm going to microtaper when I get started.

 

Gee, this is just too much fun after all, isn't it?

 

Just a note of sarcasm there. Here's wishing us some fortunate experiences with trying to taper.

 

And you are right about the Xanax. Very difficult for most people to taper.

 

Intend

[[re...]]

Intend-to-be-off et al.:

 

OK, I can't resist weighing in here.  I was only on K (generic clonazepam, in my case) for a short time, and at a comparatively modest dose, but it did a number on me that Xanax never had.  It's important to point out here, though, that I never, ever took Xanax except on a very limited and occasional as-needed basis, something you're not supposed to do with K.  Meanwhile, I know a few people to whom I've told the story of my clonazepam nightmare, who said, "Huh.  That's interesting.  I took that stuff for a little while, and didn't have much trouble with it." One person said she didn't like it because it made her clumsy, so she switched to a non-benzo sleeping medication; apparently she had little or no trouble making the transition.  Other tales were similarly uninflected, compared to many of the stories you'll read here.  My point is that it's clear there is a great range of experience with this medication, and it stands to reason that the accounts you find at this site might tend toward the negative, since BB exists to help people with a difficult, sometimes nightmarish, experience.  So it could be that for some people Klonopin is manageable.  I do want to make the point, though, that my understanding (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that K is demonstrably the most addictive of the benzodiazepines.  For me it was ridiculously addictive--ten days or so on 1mg every twenty-four hours was enough to get me good and hooked, so that liberating myself was about the worst physical and mental ordeal I'd ever been through.  If I'm right about where K falls on the addictiveness scale, then I do think that is good reason to be very, very cautious about this drug.  If you're already on it, then do consider titration, or some other very gradual method of tapering.  That's not what I did--on my third attempt, I just cut pills up (crudely, too), and jumped off for good from .5 mg (not fun); a bit over a month out I can say that I seem to have gotten away with it, but that may be because I hadn't been taking much, or for very long.  I don't, on the whole, recommend the approach I took.

 

Just be careful, take care, look out for yourselves--that's my suggestion.

 

R     

[[In...]]

Rek,

 

Thank you for your reply. I agree that this stuff is individual for sure. I don't know about K being the most addictive of the benzos. I've actually not heard that at all. From what I read, they're all very addictive.

 

And actually there is some "stuff" I've read by Ashton singling out Xanax and Ativan as the most addictive for the affinity both have for the GABA receptors due to the speed that it hits them. And of course, the speed is relevant to the half life of both which is short.

 

But ive also heard that because K has that anti seizure element, it often becomes problematic. I frankly just have to give this a go. I've been doing this cross now for @3 months because of the high affinity X has for my receptors and the difficult w/d effect I get as I cross.

 

All I can do is try here. Since all my attempts to get off X started, I've experienced so many awful withdrawl symptoms, I often wonder if I've actually already felt a lot of what people talk and warn about. Cause let me just say, I've been through some stuff here.

 

But time will tell. Thanks for your helpful advice.

 

Intend

[[re...]]

Hey, Intend -

 

You may well be right that they're just all addictive, period, but each has its own set of characteristics that operate in different ways with individual people, depending on who-knows-how-many different factors--not just dosage and amount of time spent taking the drug, but stuff like sleep history, eating habits, daily-life stressors, hormonal conditions, etc.; I suspect that all of these can come into play as regards how any one of these drugs may affect a particular person.  At any rate, I'd better be careful about claims as to which benzo takes the dubious title of "most addictive."  Maybe it's just all of the above.

 

Meanwhile, I'm so sorry that you are going through the stuff you're going through, and that you've been through whatever it is you've been through--sounds like a rough road you've been on.  I hope that, if Klonopin it must be, then you at least don't have to be on it for too long, and that when the time comes to get off of it you'll have a good method and the support you need.  Hang in there.

 

R

[[In...]]

Thank you Rek for your concern. I am looking at what I've gone through as a kind of preparation for down the road.

 

This whole thing has become rather scary. But I know many others have gone through much worse and gotten through it.

 

And I don't plan on being on K indefinitely. I plan on a taper with some advice and instruction. But I have been on Xanax for a long time. I still wonder if the old GABAs can repair or whatever.

 

As I said, time will tell.

 

Intend

[[De...]]

Well said, R.  Insightful as always.

 

Intend - I think the evidence is very strong that your receptors WILL re-upgrade.  Look at all the success stories, many of whom are people who quit c/t or over-rapidly withdrew.  It took a lot of time, but they recovered.

 

As far as the most addictive - I had inter-dose withdrawals from Xanax within two weeks and quickly went from 1mg to 4.  But I was taking it everyday to sleep.  I did not have anything like that experience on K - I actually felt pretty good the first month I was on it before crossing over to Xanax.  I thought it was all the changes I was making to my hormone levels that was making my anxiety go up, when it was actually the Xanax (You think you have anxiety now?? Try taking X everyday for a month!)  So I'm thankful to be off X, although it was a rough road to get here.

 

Your brain will re-upgrade receptors despite how quickly you taper, or c/t.  But it's going to do it at its own pace.  If you've taken handfuls of the stuff all at once I think there's a good possibility for some permanent damage - that's at least what I've read and heard from doctors.  If you've stayed within the recommended dosage, you should be fine.  Remember, there are people on this sight who were on it for over 20 years and were able to withdraw and recover 100%.  (I think I've read 90% of the Success Stories.)

[[re...]]

Thank you, Deinoncote, you're absolutely right--there are some really inspiring success stories, and they make for a great beacon of hope.  Complete recovery--with the possible exception, as you note, D, of extreme cases (taking a lot more of a particular medication than was prescribed, etc.)--does seem to be entirely achievable.   

 

Intend, you'll be all right.  It seems to me that you're looking carefully at what does and doesn't work for you, which seems to be the main criterion for finding one's way through this maze.

 

Anyhow, I'm rooting for everyone going through this.  Be of good courage, folks -

 

R

[[fi...]]

Intend-to-be-off et al.:

 

OK, I can't resist weighing in here.  I was only on K (generic clonazepam, in my case) for a short time, and at a comparatively modest dose, but it did a number on me that Xanax never had.  It's important to point out here, though, that I never, ever took Xanax except on a very limited and occasional as-needed basis, something you're not supposed to do with K.  Meanwhile, I know a few people to whom I've told the story of my clonazepam nightmare, who said, "Huh.  That's interesting.  I took that stuff for a little while, and didn't have much trouble with it." One person said she didn't like it because it made her clumsy, so she switched to a non-benzo sleeping medication; apparently she had little or no trouble making the transition.  Other tales were similarly uninflected, compared to many of the stories you'll read here.  My point is that it's clear there is a great range of experience with this medication, and it stands to reason that the accounts you find at this site might tend toward the negative, since BB exists to help people with a difficult, sometimes nightmarish, experience.  So it could be that for some people Klonopin is manageable.  I do want to make the point, though, that my understanding (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that K is demonstrably the most addictive of the benzodiazepines.  For me it was ridiculously addictive--ten days or so on 1mg every twenty-four hours was enough to get me good and hooked, so that liberating myself was about the worst physical and mental ordeal I'd ever been through.  If I'm right about where K falls on the addictiveness scale, then I do think that is good reason to be very, very cautious about this drug.  If you're already on it, then do consider titration, or some other very gradual method of tapering.  That's not what I did--on my third attempt, I just cut pills up (crudely, too), and jumped off for good from .5 mg (not fun); a bit over a month out I can say that I seem to have gotten away with it, but that may be because I hadn't been taking much, or for very long.  I don't, on the whole, recommend the approach I took.

 

Just be careful, take care, look out for yourselves--that's my suggestion.

 

R   

 

When I was prescribed Klonopin by my neuro, I didn't have any problems with it until I noticed I was fatigued and started losing weight.  At any rate, I c/t'd 2 mg. of Klonopin after being on it for 10 months and had no problems for days.  (I was still on 30 mg. of Paxil).  I wish now that I had stayed off of the K, but I went back on it and went off of the Paxil (since that was causing the majority of the fatigue).  It wasn't until I had been on Klonopin for several years and tried to quit that I began having problems doing so.

 

So for me, I could stop the Klonopin with no problems even after being on it everyday (twice a day) for 10 months.  Wish I knew then what I know now, but hindsight is 20/20.

 

At any rate, microtapering is the only thing that has allowed me to taper the Klonopin at this point, since I have been on it for four years.

 

Just wanted to relate my experience.

[[re...]]

Hi FG -

 

Wow, Klonopin for several years is hard for me to imagine.  But you're doing the micro-taper now, so I hope that frees you soon.  That certainly does seem to be the way to go--not the hell-for-leather method I chose!  All the best of luck to you -

 

R