The Klonopin Klub

[[re...]]

Forgot to mention hydroxizine.  I tried it, but it aggravated an internal inflammation I was dealing with (the condition that precipitated my whole clonazepam ordeal in the first place), so I had to stop it after a couple of painful doses.  Anything that increased the pain I was in at that point also increased my anxiety; whether it would have had the opposite effect had I not been in physical pain I don't know, but I've certainly heard it can work. 

[[fa...]]

Hey all, I have just joined this forum. I am currently on 1mg of Kpin twice daily. I had a raging addiction to Xanax supported by my pill pushing "doctor" who basically gave them to me at my request. I explained my situation on Introductory forum of my story with Benzos.

 

I just refilled my script....I had been without them for about a day an a half. I have been overdosing myself sometimes taking up to 5 1mg pills in a day.  often run out before my next appointment and I feel the withdrawal symptoms almost right away. It does not compare to the xanax withdrawal effects, but still just as bad.

 

Since I was out of my kpins this week, my SSRIs were just not doing it for me. The past two days without my kpins have made me a mess. I couldn't attend my classes due to severe agoraphobia and general anxiety about everything under the sun. I felt out of my mind, like I was losing it. I was fixating on certain situations in my life that should not bother me as much as they did this past week.

 

Finally, at 8am this morning, waking up with anxiety I basically dragged myself out of bed for the meds. Yeah I couldn't go to class, yet I'm running to the pharmacy. Its pathetic. I do not WANT to get off the benzos, but I will NEED to once my insurance expires at the end of January next year. I have known about this for a while now, yet I am too afraid to admit to my doctor what the situation is because the addicted part of my brain does not want to let these drugs go. I am afraid I will not be able to function without them and I am even more afraid of the withdrawal process. Its now been two years since I have been prescribed Benzos and I know I am physically addicted. I am terrified.

 

[[De...]]

Brian-

 

I take Hydroxyzine every night.  I started at 150mg when the withdrawals were really bad and I'm now down to 50 (Hurray!)  It does help me sleep - particularly since Klonopin's efficacy as a sleep aid wore off pretty quickly.  It's antagonistic to epinephrine and norepinephrine receptors, so it prevents those adrenaline surges - when your heart rate just speeds up and becomes forceful for no apparent reason.  But it's also antagonistic to a dopamine receptor, so for me, it blunts my motivation in the morning.  It also has the potential to cause depression because of this if taken long term (longer than six months).  So... right now I need it to sleep, but I would like to reach a point where I can sleep without it.  Combining it with K will more than likely make you very sedated, because you're combining central nervous system depressants.  I still have a hard time waking up in the morning taking both meds at bedtime.

 

I also have used Kavinace for a long time (about a year) and have had no issues with not taking it, so I can't speak to it causing dependency.  Before all this mess, I was able to get to sleep with just two capsules of Kavinace before bed.  I've also been taking 5HTP for quite a while (more commonly known as tryptophan) but I was taking it long before this recent trouble with benzos.

 

Tranquility-

 

I've come to find the hard way that the percentage in dose that you cut does make a difference.  Some people are lucky and able to jump off and feel mostly recovered after a month.  The first time I took K, I took it for six months every night and quit with no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever.  At the time, I didn't even know what I was taking, so I got lucky.  I completely understand the desire to be off quickly, but I can attest to how dangerous an over-rapid taper can be.  I'm stabilizing on a dose before beginning water titration.  On this site, they recommend staying within 5-10% cuts every 10 to 14 days, but some people make daily cuts, some people make larger cuts and hold for longer - it all depends on what you find works for you.  I still consider trying something like a 12.5% cut, just to see what happens, but I know this would be a poor decision.  I'm working on developing patience and acceptance.

[[re...]]

Hi, Fallenheart -

 

Your situation sounds really intense.  My first question is whether you are getting support from friends and family with this.  You'll get plenty of support here, of course (please stay in touch), but it's good if there're people "on the ground" with you, so to speak.  Are you seeing a counsellor?  I did that for a while this summer--she was very supportive, encouraged me to pursue the meditation I undertook as part of my effort to kick clonazepam (Klonopin), and she also walked me through some creative visualization exercises.  Meditation and visualization can be tough to concentrate on if you are really in a withdrawal maelstrom, but in the long run they are good techniques to have in your arsenal.  My own feeling is that it's good to get off benzodiazepines irrespective of insurance issues, if only in order to take control of your own life, but that's an individual decision, of course; in your situation, it probably isn't helping your anxiety that you feel pushed to the wall by the insurance question.  That's one reason I really hope you can get some good, strong, in-person support.  It sounds as though the doctor dropped the ball, if he or she didn't ask you enough questions about what you were taking, how much, why, etc.  But my own experience with doctors has been disappointing, so I can't say I'm surprised.  It just means that you need to find answers and assistance in other quarters.  You may want to go to the section of this forum that offers advice about alternatives to benzodiazepines--in particular, if your insurance is running out, non-prescription ones.  In my own case, I've found some really gentle herbs to be helpful, but I was withdrawing from a lower dose than you, and clonazepam was the only thing I was hooked on.  Do check the "Alternative therapies and supplements" section of the BB web site, if you haven't already--maybe there will be some helpful ideas there for you.  You may want to look into titration plans, too.  And keep us posted.

 

Wishing you strength,

 

R 

[[br...]]

Thank you guys again for the feed back.  I am going to try to stay at my current dose and return to work on Monday.  I see my psych in three weeks.  I will print out some stuff from the Ashton Manual and bring it with me for him.  I can't imagine him trying to taper me anymore or I will have to find another psych.  It seems everyone here and everything I read indicates that my psych's cut from 4mg to 3mg daily after 5 years on the drug was too drastic.  If he is not willing to work with my symptoms and do a slow taper; my only option is to find another psych.  Thanks again everyone.

 

XOXO

Brian

[[Tr...]]

Brianrecovering:

I have taken Hydroxyzine HCL, and I am afraid to take any drugs, usually when I get a rx I can’t take it because I’m too scared. It worked for anxiety, and the only side effect I found was that it made me VERY tired. I actually asked for some when I decided to taper from Clonazepam, but for whatever reason my Dr. gave me Trazodone instead. When I did take Hydroxy. My Dr. gave me liquid so I could take just the amount I felt like I needed. I would recommend not taking it for the first time on a day you have things to do. I have also heard great things about 5-HTP, but have not tried it because as previously stated I’m scared of taking anything (should have been more afraid when I started the clonazepam).

 

I think you guys are right. Titration is probably best. Slow and steady wins the race, right? Guess I’m off to the taper board!!

 

[[kl...]]

Brianrecovering:

I have taken Hydroxyzine HCL, and I am afraid to take any drugs, usually when I get a rx I can’t take it because I’m too scared. It worked for anxiety, and the only side effect I found was that it made me VERY tired. I actually asked for some when I decided to taper from Clonazepam, but for whatever reason my Dr. gave me Trazodone instead. When I did take Hydroxy. My Dr. gave me liquid so I could take just the amount I felt like I needed. I would recommend not taking it for the first time on a day you have things to do. I have also heard great things about 5-HTP, but have not tried it because as previously stated I’m scared of taking anything (should have been more afraid when I started the clonazepam).

 

I think you guys are right. Titration is probably best. Slow and steady wins the race, right? Guess I’m off to the taper board!!

 

I'm just starting Hydroxyzine tonight for sleep, fingers crossed it helps,  I need some MAJOR ZZZ's.

[[Tr...]]

If you're anything like me you will sleep great!! 

[[fi...]]

Brianrecovering:

I have taken Hydroxyzine HCL, and I am afraid to take any drugs, usually when I get a rx I can’t take it because I’m too scared. It worked for anxiety, and the only side effect I found was that it made me VERY tired. I actually asked for some when I decided to taper from Clonazepam, but for whatever reason my Dr. gave me Trazodone instead. When I did take Hydroxy. My Dr. gave me liquid so I could take just the amount I felt like I needed. I would recommend not taking it for the first time on a day you have things to do. I have also heard great things about 5-HTP, but have not tried it because as previously stated I’m scared of taking anything (should have been more afraid when I started the clonazepam).

 

I think you guys are right. Titration is probably best. Slow and steady wins the race, right? Guess I’m off to the taper board!!

 

I tried 5-HTP about 2 years ago and it kept me awake from 7:30 PM (when I took it) until 10:00 AM the next morning.  It is supposed to help put you to sleep (or so I heard).  In me, it had the opposite effect and I was wired.  My nose also became extremely stopped up to the point that I couldn't breathe through my nostrils.  I think I simply had an allergic reaction to it.  I never took it again after this.

 

At any rate, I just wanted to relate my experience with it.

 

Sincerely,

 

fg

[[re...]]

Hi, FG -

 

5HTP did the same thing to me: each of the two godforsaken times I tried it, I was wired-for-sound the whole night.  Again, I'm not sure whether it was the 5HTP alone that did this to me, or whether it was a combination of that and something else I'd taken too recently, but at all events it caused me to stay away from 5HTP thereafter.  I'm not inclined to try it again--I took Kavinace last night (after watching a disturbing movie I was afraid would keep me up), and it got me through about the first four hours of the night.  Then at 3 I was awake and thinking about the movie.  And thinking and thinking and thinking--until at least 4:30, when, after a lot of deep breathing, I slept again until my sister-in-law in France forgot about the time difference and woke us up with a call at 5:30!  My husband gave up on sleep at 6, got up, and I went back to sleep--fortunately it's Saturday.  I had the luxury that has become an extreme rarity for me: an actual lie-in--I didn't get up until around 8:30, and was it ever wonderful to feel actually RESTED.  I wish the same for everyone out there.

 

5HTP may be worth trying--for people who are comfortable experimenting with supplements at least--because I do think those of us on whom it has the opposite effect are probably in the minority. 

 

Sending out my good luck wishes, as always -

 

R

[[De...]]

5HTP has no discernible effect on me - I don't feel sleepy or wired from taking it.  I never understood why people always got sleepy after Thanksgiving dinner.  But it is a precursor to serotonin, and studies have found that people with more tryptophan in their diets are less likely to experience depression (and depression is definitely a concern for circumstantial and chemical reasons trying to get off this stuff.)

 

You can also get homeopathic doses of lithium to help prevent depression.  My mood was consistently very good taking just these supplements, after years of taking an antidepressant and quitting c/t, until the dreaded benzo withdrawal.

 

But, other than having just caught some kind of virus, I feel almost 100% this morning.  I would say 98% withdrawal-wise, which is wonderfully glorious and I have so much less fear now knowing I can feel this good, even in withdrawal.  The dose correction was the right choice. 

[[st...]]

i am on 1 mg of klonopin take .25 morning .25 noon .25 6oclock and .25 at bedtime.  How do I get off this drug

I need help.  I am a 66 year old male have been on it for about 8 years.  thanks

[[De...]]

Stevebo-

 

I'm guessing you're here because you've missed a dose or tried to quit on your own and experienced that special hell of acute benzo withdrawal.  Long term use of these drugs can cause cognitive deficiencies, depression, and tolerance withdrawal.  There are a lot of reasons to want to quit.  Do you experience withdrawal symptoms if you miss a dose?

 

Read this first: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm

 

The first thing you'll need is a doctor who is supportive of your decision to quit, as well as the rate at which you feel you can taper off safely.  Then there are various options for you to do this - Prof. Ashton recommends crossing over to Valium.  Personally, I decided not to do this because I've already crossed over to Xanax and then back to Klonopin.  I know what withdrawal from Klonopin is like, and I know it has about a 30 hour half-life for me.  I have no idea how I'll react to Valium - for most people it has a long half-life (this is the amount of time it takes for half of your dose to be eliminated from your system) but for some people it doesn't.

 

Read the manual first and any other information you can find out there about benzodiazepine withdrawal.  There's lots of information on this site on how to taper in the "Planning Your Taper" section.  So far, I've cut by dose but plan to switch to water titration.  I don't have any experience with this yet, but there are a lot of people on this site who do.

 

Once you decide how you wish to proceed, there are all sorts of folks doing different types of tapers and they'll be able to advise you.

 

The most important thing to remember is that everyone is different and everyone can handle different rates of taper.  There's no easy answer.  Your brain WILL heal, but at it's own pace and the proper taper for you can minimize withdrawal symptoms.  So far, I only know what's too fast for me, so I can't really speak to finding your pace, either, but I intend to start with a 1% cut per week and slowly work my way up until I hit a percentage where the symptoms are intolerable, and go back to the percentage that was comfortable.  It's trial and error, which is scary, but I can tell you this: even with acute withdrawal symptoms, you will eventually start to feel better on a lower dose.  It's just that if you cut too quickly, this can take a very long time.

 

When I first joined this site, someone had told me their symptoms were "manageable" at the rate they're tapering.  I was suffering immensely at the time and didn't see how this was even possible, but now that I've slowed down, I'm starting to get back into normal life and the symptoms are so minor, they're just kind of there.  They'll probably be there throughout my taper, but at least I won't miss anymore of my life.

 

I hope this helps.

 

~D

[[kl...]]

I'm worried these days that I'll never resolve my underlying problems with INSOMNIA and anxiety.  I'm tempted to go back on k just to get some WAY overdue rest.  If it works, great, if not, at least I'll know in a few days.  This all just feels so endless.  I have tried absolutely everything to get some decent rest and k is the only thing that ever helped, and it helped so much. Blah.

[[re...]]

Wow, Julian, NOTHING else works?  At all?  Even for a few hours?  My sleep hasn't by any means normalized completely since I went of clonazepam about five weeks ago, but at the worst times I can get a few hours with a VERY OCCASIONAL dose of Kavinace.  You haven't had any luck with non-benzos like Ambien or Lunesta?  Are you able to do any kind of meditation or deep breathing?  Creative visualization?  Do you exercise?  I know it's very hard to get enough exercise when you're completely sleep-deprived. 

 

I can't help hoping you can manage somehow to stay benzo-free, although ultimately you have to decide, of course, whether it's best for you to go back on Klonopin.  One way or another, I wish you SLEEP!

 

R     

[[kl...]]

Wow, Julian, NOTHING else works?  At all?  Even for a few hours?  My sleep hasn't by any means normalized completely since I went of clonazepam about five weeks ago, but at the worst times I can get a few hours with a VERY OCCASIONAL dose of Kavinace.  You haven't had any luck with non-benzos like Ambien or Lunesta?  Are you able to do any kind of meditation or deep breathing?  Creative visualization?  Do you exercise?  I know it's very hard to get enough exercise when you're completely sleep-deprived. 

 

I can't help hoping you can manage somehow to stay benzo-free, although ultimately you have to decide, of course, whether it's best for you to go back on Klonopin.  One way or another, I wish you SLEEP!

 

R   

 

Hey, I've actually been experiencing what I call "fake" sleep more than actual insomnia, where I know that I was sleeping but it's not deep sleep, so i get up looking/feeling like a wreck every day.  Last night I slept 6 hrs for example but have big dark circles 

[[re...]]

"Fake sleep"--that's a good term for it.  I have that, too: where I sleep, but it doesn't feel real.  Some of the time, anyway--in recent days I've been getting what feels more like genuine sleep.  But I know exactly--EXACTLY--what you mean.  The trouble is that the sleep I got on clonazepam didn't feel real, either, because I was so groggy and disoriented the day after I took my 1mg at bedtime.  (That's why I only ever took it at night; otherwise I'd have been unconscious, sort of, most of the time.)  It's sort of a catch-22.  I am so sorry you are going through this.  So sorry.  And I wish I could offer some sure-fire remedy.  Have you tried meditation?  Getting into a regular meditation practice (which for me meant signing up for a class, to get the group support) seems to have brought some equilibrium to my life in general, maybe including sleep. 

 

Hang in there, friend -

 

R 

[[De...]]

I know the fake sleep thing, as well - I know I must have been sleeping because a lot of time passed, but I don't feel like I've slept.  It's low grade sleep - dozing.  Benzos actually decrease the quality of sleep by reducing the amount of REM and d-wave sleep.  From what Prof. Ashton says, it takes a little longer for the body to regain it's normal levels of d-wave sleep after withdrawal.  Hang in there.  There's a good chance your sleep will start to improve.

[[sl...]]

I wonder if fake sleep is why I've not actually felt rested, regardless of the sleep in who knows how long. I know for a while when I first was forcibly c/t from klon, I would shut my eyes, think I was never going to sleep, and all of a sudden the sun is shining- with absolutely no feeling of having slept for that 6 hrs. It was odd to say the least. NOTHING would wake me. I had no dreams. Time just disappeared.

 

Now, I sleep 9-10hrs/night, and am always tired. And I haven't made changes to my dosages in months due to life circumstances.

[[re...]]

Deinoncote, that's an excellent point about benzodiazepines and REM sleep.  I remember reading that somewhere, now that you mention it.  It could explain why both on the drug and in withdrawal sleep feels like non-sleep impersonating real sleep.  And it does also seem to suggest that things will improve over time.  The trick is not to get worn down in the meanwhile.  In the end, I decided that semi-sleep was better than none (and none--none whatsoever--was exactly what I was getting for a little while there); maybe convincing myself of that was helpful, I don't know.  I hope everyone finds a solution, sooner rather than later.

 

R

[[De...]]

I intend on getting my neurotransmitters tested again once I'm off the K.  My cortisol was just a little bit elevated at night, so for a long time I was able to get to sleep with just two capsules of Kavinace and 3mg of melatonin.  I miss those days.  I was also taking Seraphos to lower cortisol, but I never noticed any difference taking it.

 

I also feel tired all the time - part of it I know is the withdrawal, but I know I'm not getting good, quality sleep, either.  Kava is supposed to improve quality of sleep, but I'm not going to take this until I'm completely off - it affects the GABA-a receptors; although not with the same mechanism of action as benzos, it's better not to risk it.  Kavinace's mechanism of action potentiates GABA at the GABA-b receptor..... supposedly.  But it's effect is so mild compared to benzos.  I haven't been taking that either because it doesn't seem to make a difference.

[[br...]]

Hi everyone:

 

Just wanted to check in.  My psych and I lowered my dose of Klonopin from 4mg to 3mg (daily) 9 days ago.  I wanted to lower it to 3.5mg; but my psych had already wrote the script and was not budging.  Luckily I had this past week off from work.  I have definitely had withdrawal symptoms (fatigue, brain fog, anxiety) and one episode of severe w/d (flu-like, severe anxiety, feelings of unreality).  I feel pretty normal today.

 

Tomorrow will be day 10 from my first taper and I will be back at work.  I am hoping the stress of work does not rev me up and bring on any acute symptoms.  This past week I've slept a lot, acupuncture (4 times), yoga (2 times), switched from four coffees a day to one green tea in the morning and I've started taking food source multivitamins and Omega 3 fish oil - and of course the knowledge and support of Benzobuddies and the Klonopin Club to guide me. 

 

After work tomorrow, I see my therapist and then have a meditation class scheduled for later in the day.  I have two acupuncture sessions set up for this week.  I am also giving up a second job I have on the weekends.  One job is enough for me at this point.

 

I met up with a mutual friend tonight who is now five months off Klonopin.  He was taking the same dose as me and he used the Ashton method to get off.  He says it was not easy but worth it.  He says he still gets symptoms but nothing like acute w/d.  It made me feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  I'm just starting my journey here.  Something a week ago, I knew so little about.  I need to take this one day at a time.

 

Thanks to you all for your suggestions and support.  I don't know what I would do without you all and I don't really even know you. 

 

XOXO

 

Brian

[[re...]]

Brian, you are doing great.  I think it's fantastic, the pro-active steps you've taken to look after yourself--this is the best thing you can do, I'm convinced.  I really hope that the combination of nutritional supplements, yoga, meditation, reduced caffeine, etc. can help smooth the transition back to work and continue to ease you through the taper.  It's helpful that you know someone who, five months out, can attest that it's doable.  It's amazing how symptoms linger, but also amazing how much less power they have over you once they diminish.  My own experience is I get a symptom (my knee joints hurt in a particular way I associate with clonazepam, my neck aches, I feel odd for indefinable reasons, or whatever), and I think, "Oh, yeah, I recognize that.  It's annoying, but whatever."  (There's almost a feeling of "Nyah, nyah, you can't hurt me anymore" toward the symptoms!)  And then I get on with what I'm doing. 

 

Forge ahead--you're on a good, strong path!

 

R

[[In...]]

Saw last night that ambien and Lunesta were possibly recommended for sleep issues.

 

Those drugs are actually called Z drugs and hit the GABA receptors similarly like benzos. Not totally a benzo as they don't hit all the receptors, but very closely related.

 

Many BB here are tapering off Z drugs along with benzos. Some have an easier time than others. But these really should not be recommended for sleep problems IMO. There are a few BB who find these to be as difficult or worse than a full benzo to taper.

 

Internet research for those unsure could be helpful. They are called the "non-benzodiazepines" technically.

 

Intend

[[De...]]

Good point, Intend.

 

I've seen a few posts where people were struggling with Z drugs.  I intend on staying away from anything that has the potential for withdrawals - I had a terrible time getting off Inderal.  I wish I didn't need to take Vistaril, but I wouldn't sleep without it.  The dose of K I'm on is no longer sufficient to put me to sleep.  I wish it was (tried it - eventually had to take Vistaril and had a miserable night with very little sleep.)

 

I'm over psychotropic drugs.  There are more effective ways to address these problems (anxiety and depression and everything that goes along with these diseases.)