The Klonopin Klub

[[re...]]

Thank you for the clarification, Intend.  You are probably right that Ambien and Lunesta are best avoided during withdrawal--you've done your homework better than I have.  Even Kavinace, as Deinoncote has pointed out, should be approached with, at the very least, awareness of its effects.  I've been OK with occasional use of Kavinace; needless to say, I'd RATHER be OK using nothing but ginger tea and meditation.  I'm working on that!

 

R

[[In...]]

Deinoncote and Rek,

 

Well, I'm a real novice here when it comes to K, but work with many drugs at my job including benzos generally.

 

I do see them dispensed and Rxed for kids, and I just cringe.

 

Nevertheless, I hope I get to a better point here in my own situation. I agree that all these psychotropics are getting to be a bit much. And a lot of the time we're not aware that some of the Rxes are psychotropics.

 

I think most folks recognize ADs, benzos, anti-psychotics (seroquel, geodon, abilify) for instance, but

there's so many more, like ADHD meds also.

 

And I know that some people need these, but just feel there's tendency to over prescribe to anyone and everyone literally at a moments notice.

 

I'm only on the benzos and omeprazole, and I'm having enough trouble.

 

Intend

[[re...]]

Intend, I TOTALLY agree about the over-prescribing, and feel as though much of the relationship my husband and I have with our doctors is about resisting their attempts to put us on medications we don't need, as if we were just guinea pigs, or something.  As for the stuff that gets prescribed--often irresponsibly, I suspect--for children, that one makes my blood run cold.  I'm not convinced, for instance, that a lot of what gets written off as ADHD and medicated accordingly isn't greatly exacerbated, if not actually caused, by poor diet.  The amount of sugar that got pumped into the school children where my son attended elementary school set me off on a campaign: a hopeless, losing campaign.  The school authorities just didn't care--some of the classroom teachers did, though, and those teachers were grateful when I said I would NOT be bringing in gooey cakes on my son's birthday (I brought in small puzzles and games and stuff instead).  Among other considerations, I thought, what if there's a kid in the class who's diabetic, and can't even partake of these "treats"?  So that kid just gets left out?  To say nothing of the fact that the prevailing habit of feeding kids large quantities sugary junk is CAUSING diabetes in some cases . . . and maybe causing or contributing to some of the behavior that gets diagnosed as ADHD.  It shocks me that more doctors don't probe this aspect of things.  "Before we prescribe some powerful drug for you/your child, with possible attendant side-effects, why don't we try dietary modification?"  It's so simple.  You'd think.  But no.  It really scares me. 

 

R 

[[ja...]]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm going to weigh in again because I have a problem - I'm becoming increasingly dependent on Ambien. I've been too nervous to get to sleep for a while (maybe since getting off the K) and now my heart is always pounding with anxiety because I have marital problems. My husband is really still upset that I didn't pull my weight during my last 6 months on K. I was severely depressed during that time.

 

He's being really cruel and saying I never pull my weight when I clean and cook in front of him. He gets angry with me at the drop of a hat and gets offended on things that he perceives I've said.

 

So the world was seeming so beautiful and now it feels muted again. I'm totally anxious. I won't reinstate - I'd sooner completely leave the situation.

 

I was thinking about giving it until New Years.

 

I need some help...

[[re...]]

Hi, jaxnj -

 

What an awful thing to be going through.  It's tough enough to be struggling with these medications, never mind having someone in your life actively NOT be supportive.  My main question is whether you have a therapist, or have sought counselling--whether for the medication issues, the personal situation, or both?  It seems to me that this would be the place to start.  If you don't have the right kind of insurance coverage for therapy (which can be expensive, I know), might there be a way to find a support group in your area?  It just sounds as though you need someone on hand, in person, to offer guidance.  As for the Ambien, the only working alternative I've ever found is the one I keep referring to (as a supplement that's possibly helpful, but to be approached cautiously), i.e. Kavinace.  Other than that, there are certain herbal teas, there's meditation, and exercise--not all of these are practical alternatives if you're up against a significant chemical dependence.  Again, I would think looking into counselling, and/or a support group, might be a good place to start . . .  Wishing you well -

 

R

[[ja...]]

R -

 

Yes, I JUST finished with a counselor who helped me through the withdrawal symptoms. I went to NA too, for a long time, until it wasn't right for me anymore. The philosophy.

 

I'm dying to exercise but I'm recovering from serious foot surgery and can't leave the house right now. I'm going to try to go outside - first time in 6 days.

 

I meditate regularly. Nothing has helped my sleep.

 

J

[[In...]]

jaxnj,

 

First of all, so sorry to hear that your hubby is being so difficult. It is hard for others to get this for sure, but some people are difficult no matter what the situation.

 

Definitely don't reinstate. From my understanding, you had it fairly rough, and you sound quite good from your writing. That's a huge accomplishment so don't let his behavior influence that, please cause you've done so well.

 

I'm certainly not one to endorse ambien although I have no experience with it. I think  the counseling/ support idea is a really good one for now. Rek has a good suggestion there. So I think I'd go for the counseling and ask a therapist about a support group also.

 

As far as the New Years idea, I think setting a kind of deadline is good. I don't know if you mean the ambien or hubby or both, but either or both sounds fair. He sounds immature to bring up what was happening during the last six months since it's in the past.

 

We're none of us perfect here. I had my bedroom tv go out on me on Friday, and I spent the whole day acting (as I think back on it) really difficult due to depression from all this. And I got a new tv and got it going. By the nighttime I was even more depressed cause I just couldn't snap out of it. It's chemical and that's it. Course maybe your hubby's problem is also chemical ( testosterone) and he just can't be other than himself either.

 

Counseling and that deadline. Very good IMO.

 

Intend

[[In...]]

jaxnj,

 

I'd go back to the same counselor since you had one. If that person isn't right I'd ask for a recommendation.

 

The sleep issue may just take time. If you see a counselor, I'd just get going with that, then perhaps taper off the ambien at some point. Really think about yourself here. You have been through a lot, and now this.

 

Old saying: Charity begins at home. You can't help others like the hubby until you help yourself.

 

Intend

[[re...]]

jaxnj, can you do lying-down exercise at least?  Not as effective for the endorphins as cardio, of course, but at least it's movement. 

 

Since the foot recovery is a constraint, what about the phone?  Do you have people you can call up for support?  Is there a hotline in your area, if going to counselling or a support group is impractical until your foot heals?

 

I think Intend is right in encouraging your idea of setting up a time-frame--especially if you find it's helpful to you to have goals.

 

It sounds as though you're in a bad patch--it could be that partly this is a trough, and you'll climb out of it naturally given a bit of time.  Easy for me to say, I know--much harder to get through.

 

Hang in there.

 

R 

[[br...]]

Hey guys.  Day 10 of first taper.  Lucky today and tomorrow are slow days at work to ease back into it.

 

Meditation:

 

I went to a meditation group today from advice I got from you guys.  We did 20 min meditation followed by sharing our thoughts.  It was nice.  I think it has a cumulative effect.  Someone there recommended a book to me on anxiety and meditation called "Getting Unstuck" by Pena Chatson (sp?).  I'm going to order it online tonight.  I also found a meditation group that meets four times a week; I'll prob only make it to one a week.  I am hoping this will help ease anxiety and w/d symptoms some.

 

Books:

 

I also got some books in the mail today that I ordered last week.  One is called "the benzo book" by Jack Hobson-Dupont, it seems pretty decent.  The other is called "How to Get Off Klonopin Safely" by James Harper.  The book by James Harper is part of a larger program called "the Road Back Program" and requires ordering their supplements online - seems shady to me.

 

Taper Plans:

 

I see my psych in two weeks and trying to figure out how to get him on border for an agreeable taper plan.  I have not fully read the Ashton Method yet; but does anyone think reducing by .5mg every 3 months is too slow.  It's just that my prescription plan is mail in and fills for 3 months.  I figured I'm taking 3mg daily right now.  If I followed that taper plan I would be benzo free.  So more or less it would go:

 

Oct, Nov, Dec 2012: 2.5 mg daily

Jan,Feb, Mar 2013: 2 mg daily

April, May, June 2013: 1.5 mg daily

July, August, Sept 2013: 1 mg daily

Oct, Nov, Dec 2013: .5 mg daily

Jan, Feb, Mar 2014: .25 mg daily (micro tapering added)

April 2014: Benzo Free!

 

Wow, I just realized that's 18 months.  That's a year and a half from now.  That's crazy!!

 

Any ideas on a shorter taper?  I can always pay out of pocket for meds and visit my psych more often.

 

Plan B:  Visit my psych every 2 months and reduce by .5 mg every 2 months.  So that would be:

Oct & Nov 2012: 2.5 mg daily

Dec 2012 & & Jan 2013: 2 mg daily

Feb & Mar 2013: 1.5 mg daily

April & May 2013: 1 mg daily

June & July 2013: .5 mg daily

Aug and Sept 2013: .25 mg (with micro-tapering?)

Oct. 2013 Benzo-Free!!

 

So that's 1 full year!!  Is that too long?  I have been on the stuff for 5 years at this point anyway.

 

Plan C:  Visit my psych every month and reduce by .5 mg every month.  So that would be:

 

Oct 2012: 2.5 mg

Nov 2012: 2 mg

Dec 2012: 1.5 mg

Jan 2013: 1 mg

Feb 2013: .5 mg

Mar 2013: .25 mg (with micro tapering)

April 2013:  Benzo Free!! or in the Asylum!

 

So that is six months.  Is that too fast?  W/d symptoms with that one?

 

Any thoughts?  Maybe I did not get the full concept of the tapering plans here.

 

Can anyone make sense of this?

 

I swear I will start attempting to answer other people's concerns and questions on here.  Just 10 days in this and my head is spinning.  I don't want to always have my hand out.  I just don't feel like I have enough experience to help anyone yet.

 

I will say we are all in this together. 

 

XOXO

 

Brian

[[he...]]

Hi brianrecovering,

 

Sounds like you have given this some good thought and have a plan (or two).

 

As far as looking into the future, I know, it looks long.  When I was told it could be a year, (2mg clonazepam) I thought "No Way".  But I just took my taper day to day, a general guideline like you have, but then also moving however I felt - holding if necessary. 

 

And low and behold, it was a year last week.  I may be almost done, .055 now, Or it could take a couple months.

 

My year has been trauma free and I've been able to work.  Some symptoms, but with the support of BB, it's always been reassuring that what I'm experiencing is normal.

 

Point is: I wouldn't be too worried about time. 

 

Hope that helps,

Best of luck to you in your taper,

hbam

[[br...]]

Thanks healthy.  I just hope my psych is on board not just hell bent on getting me off STAT.  He does not seem to be; but now that I know what w/d is like I am scared.  He does have the final say - he is the one writing the scripts.  I think it will be fine.  Just me worrying.  or is that w/d anxiety?  Hmmm.  This is a stealthy beast.

 

XOXO

Brian

[[he...]]

Thanks healthy.  I just hope my psych is on board not just hell bent on getting me off STAT.  He does not seem to be; but now that I know what w/d is like I am scared.  He does have the final say - he is the one writing the scripts.  I think it will be fine.  Just me worrying.  or is that w/d anxiety?  Hmmm.  This is a stealthy beast.

 

XOXO

Brian

 

Just me worrying.  or is that w/d anxiety?

Good question.  One I ask all the time.  Is this real or benzo?    funny but true.

 

I would really expect that your psych to be on board with your plan, as sensible as it looks. 

 

[[Sk...]]

I have been taking Clonazepam for about 2 years now.  1mg a day for about the first year, then 2mg a day for this past year.  It might seem like I am taking it a bit too slow, but I had a bad day when switching from 1.75mg to 1.5.    I have been going down from 2mg for 30 days, then down .25mg every 14 days, but with my recent scare going down from 1.75 to 1.5, I think 3 weeks to 30 days to next dose down is more stable for me.  Just a little over 2 weeks into my withdraw, I am starting to feel it.  It comes in waves.  I feel most nervous and restless when I wake up the next day, right before my next dose.  When I woke up today, my left arm felt bruised or crushed or something.    It freaked me out and I have developed some kind of rash or excema or something that itches like crazy!!, so I went to the E.R and they said it might be from my withdraw or some kind of microscopic bug that is burrowing underneath my skin from my dog.    omg!      I am not giving up!  I will prevail over these little blue pills!    My goal is to taper off completely within a few months ( About 4-8 ) and then just take them occasionally when really needed, for not longer than 2 weeks at a time.  I regret ever making the decision to take them on a daily basis.

[[re...]]

Hi, Brian -

 

Could it be Pema Chodron you're thinking of?  She's a Buddhist nun in the Tibetan tradition (she herself is American, but took a Tibetan name as a nun), and she's great.  I've read her book Comfortable with Uncertainty, which is like a bunch of little meditations in itself.  Anyway, I'm glad someone recommended her (I'm pretty sure it's her you're thinking of) to you.

 

And you are, again, doing really well.  Keep it up!

 

R

[[ja...]]

"Is It Real or Is It Benzo?"

 

Love it, you guys. This is what the current 4-month struggle looks like. Anxiety...benzo w/d? Insomnia...benzo w/d? Common cold...benzo w/d? It's really ridiculous!

 

Thank you all for helping me yesterday. I did lay down "the law" with my husband and he knows we have until New Years. We were both crying.  :'( My best friend has already offered me to stay with her if worse came to worse.

 

Happy Tuesday (?) everyone!

[[re...]]

Hey, jaxnj -

 

Is marital counselling an option?  Or have you tried that in the past?  (Forgive me if you've already said--you did say something about having gotten some counselling, but I don't recall your mentioning whether you'd tried couples therapy.)  Seems to me if you were both crying, then you both still have some investment in the relationship.  Maybe all is not lost?

 

R

[[br...]]

Yes it is the Buddhist nun.  I just got in on audio book. The series is called "becoming unstuck.". Although she is a Buddhist nun this lecture seems tailored for people in benzo w/d.  I just started listening to it on the subway into work.  I highly reccomend it.

 

XOXO

Brian

[[re...]]

SkyZone -

 

The weird symptoms you describe sound really familiar.  Withdrawal from clonazepam made me hurt all over.  If I was sitting at the computer and my knee actually came to rest against the leg of the desk, I had to move it away immediately, because the pressure of just resting my knee against a hard surface hurt too much.  I felt bruised in a lot of places, but my knees and elbows were especially sensitive.  As if sleep wasn't elusive enough anyway, it was difficult even just to find a comfortable position to lie in at night, because so many parts of me had become trigger points, and even the pressure of the mattress was too much sometimes.  There was also joint pain--still is, to some degree.  And I had bizarre under-the-skin feelings, patches of skin would start burning as if I had a sunburn, but I definitely didn't.  The withdrawal produces anxiety anyway, but then having all these strange physical symptoms can aggravate your psychological distress, too.  So as you start to experience this complex of symptoms, bear in mind that withdrawal DOES do this to you, that things will happen fairly randomly and that the physical distress can exacerbate anxiety.  If you KNOW all of this, and you know it's not you--that you're not going crazy--I think it can help you get through the experience.  I very much doubt that you got some burrowing thing from your dog--I think it's more likely the clonazepam.  I mean, keep an eye on that symptom, of course, but I suspect the benzo is the culprit. 

 

Hang in there, friend!

 

R

[[re...]]

Brian, that's great!  Pema's great--I should probably chase down the CD you're listening to.  Buddhist practice is, in general, designed to teach us to cope with whatever happens in life; I have a close family member who's been a Buddhist for something like 35 years, and when I need advice on getting through something, that's one person I turn to right away.  It was clonazepam withdrawal that finally nudged me toward mindfulness meditation, which is based on a fundamentally Buddhist tradition.  I believe it has changed my life.  And I think your life is changing--for the better!

 

:-)

 

R

[[je...]]

Mindfulness meditation is amazing and really puts things in perspective...benzo wd or not 

[[Ma...]]

Here is a gem from my psychiatrist.

 

I went to see him last night because I need to get the ball rolling with disability because I am still a mess and really need it. I will be out on the street if I don;t get it.

 

Anyway he in a nutshell said Klonopin is the least addictive, takes a month or so for WD's to go away and all my symptoms are underlying anxiety. He was so oblivious I am not upset. I expected it. Unbelievable how these guys practice medicine.

[[re...]]

Max, that sounds a lot like my doctor.  This past summer I go to him with all these bizarre pains and flip-outs like I've never experienced and ask him, "Could the clonazepam have ANYTHING to do with this?"  He doesn't miss a beat.  "Oh, no, nothing at all."  He meant it, too.  How can these doctors be so disconnected from reality?  It was from this web site that I finally learned, thank god, that yes, actually, the clonazepam had EVERYTHING to do with it.  Thank you, BenzoBuddies!

 

Best of luck obtaining the disability leave that you need--I can well understand feeling such an acute need for it.

 

R

[[De...]]

It blows my mind - I was hospitalized due to a bad reaction to Xanax combined with a change to my hormone levels, and my anxiety was so high, it was outrageous.  I'd been taking 4mg a day of Xanax and tried to take less in the hospital - 1-2mg average, probably.  And not one, but two psychiatrists failed to recognize that I was in benzo withdrawal.  It wasn't me, or my hormones making me anxious.  It was the Xanax, or lack thereof. 

 

I had one nurse say she'll only prescribe benzos for one or two time use, like for fear of flying or such, because she recognizes how difficult it is to get off these drugs.  This should be the prescribing guidelines for these drugs.

 

Benzodiazepine withdrawal, acute and protracted, is well documented by medical studies.  I just don't understand these practitioners who are willing to hand it out like Skittles on Halloween and know nothing of the possible devastating consequences. 

 

I know there are multiple groups trying to get a class action lawsuit against the benzo companies here in the US - no attorneys have picked it up, but maybe if they got more support, a law firm would take up the case.

 

I've signed a petition to the FDA and also signed on to be included if a class action suit is ever started.  Profit over truth - the drug companies are just as bad as Big Tobacco - if not worse.

[[kl...]]

Here is a gem from my psychiatrist.

 

I went to see him last night because I need to get the ball rolling with disability because I am still a mess and really need it. I will be out on the street if I don;t get it.

 

Anyway he in a nutshell said Klonopin is the least addictive, takes a month or so for WD's to go away and all my symptoms are underlying anxiety. He was so oblivious I am not upset. I expected it. Unbelievable how these guys practice medicine.

klonopin the least addictive :idiot: