Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[Bi...]]

Hi Bird

I also think there is some  variation in absorption and bioavailability depending on diet and the state of our GI tract at the time of dosing. Maybe just another factor contributing to our symptom variation from day to day.

Bart

 

Yes you are right about that bart.  I also noticed that if I ate a meal heavy in potato's it enhanced the benzo effect.  I write down everything and find the weirdest data don't I

[[aw...]]

Laserjet:

 

I cede the wand of expertness to you. I have weighed microgram levels accurately using a Sartorius in a weighing room, anti-static gun, etc. At that level, some people have "magic hands" and can get results not obainable by mere mortals. Truly, technique is critical when weighing 1.3 ug. Your comments on inhomogeneity and static are right on.

All good arguemnts for dissolution.

 

aweigh

 

 

[[Ma...]]

20 grains = 1 scruple (s ap)

3 scruples = 1 dram apothecaries' (dr ap) = 60 grains

 

 

I found that ^ it is called Apothecary Measure.  But the question is, how much is a grain? 

 

Maybe we should start talking in grains and scruples.

[[aw...]]

Mairin33: The symbols for drams and scruples and grains are even cooler than the symbols used in alchemy. We used grain scales [gunpowder scales] in the old days to measure our powders  , so I happen to know that 1 gram = 15.432 grains. Those gunpowder scales are still a good deal.

 

Aweigh

 

[[...]]

And 1 grain is just under 65 milligrams

[[aw...]]

Bart: The old 1 grain codeine tablets were an honest 64 mg, but when they went metric they were suddenly 60 mg. Sort of like when a 236 mL half-pint of scotch magically became 200 mL. You just can't trust 'em when it comes to drugs. 

 

Aweigh

 

[[mo...]]

Going to the dentist has never been one of my favorites things . I read to request a non-epi Novocain . Has anyone here had any dental work done while tapering ? Just looking for any heads up thanks. MM 

[[Ma...]]

MM,

 

I have not had that while tapering, but I did have my mouth numbed while on benzos.  It wasn't a problem.  IT's a local anesthetic, so, not sure if it really goes into the blood stream.  I am not really sure though.

[[ch...]]

I started taking lorazepam 2 years ago after I was experiencing extreme anxiety and ptsd from a minor op which almost killed me after the surgeon accidentally tore my spleen. I was in intensive care havin flashbacks etc, and was much worse when I got home.

 

At first I would only take a TINY miniscule amount, and not daily.

 

Since Feb 2013 though I found I was taking around 0.25mg every other day, about twice a day.

 

We went on holiday in July and I kep feeling like I was short of breath. I was convinced it was my heart and panicked so took 0.25 lorazepam about 3 times a day. When we got home a week later I felt as if I had the flu... the floor felt like sponge when I was walking, I was EXTREMELY dizzy, my body ached, id get short of breath and a tight chest. I was at the drs and a&e constantly. they treated me as if I was a complete hypochondriac, and I was panicking when I had these symptoms, so told me it was anxiety...

 

4 weeks ago the chest symptoms got worse. Id get around 3 times a day, severe tightness across my collar bone area, a squeezing choking feeling in my lower throat, back tightness and SOB. I again kept going to a&e. They said my heart rate was fast, that I DID have a couple of t wave inversions on my ecg but that that was ok(??!!!!) and I was ok... I found I was taking random small amounts of lorazepam during the day every day. I saw a cardiologist who organised a stress treadmill test (OK), A 24 hr holter monitor to test heart rhythm (OK),An echocardiogram of heart (OK) and a ct scan of my heart to check the arteries 'just incase it is angina' (Im 30 don't smoke or drink). Im waiting for the results of the scan.

 

In the meantime I was taking lorazepam randomly still and still getting this lightheadedness, tightness in collar bone area, tightness and squeezing n throat, fast heart rate... So I took set amounts (around 0.20-0.25 three times a day).

 

3 weeks later to now, I am now feeling all the above symptoms but to add to it I am experiencing a lot of pins and needles in my hands, feet, arms and even more scarily, my face. Sometimes my hands go numb and altho I can move them, I lose sensation. The drs aren't worried and have referred me to a neuro dr. I am beside myself thinking its my heart or a stroke warning me of it coming. These episodes of chest tightness happen A LOT during the day (rarely in the evening) and come on out of nowhere. The numbness and pins and needles happen a lot too (but only since last week). I am so scared. On Friday I was at work and I almost ran away as my chest and back was so so tight and I felt faint. Infact I took more lorazepam than usual and it faded away for about 3 hrs, then came back. Today I felt the worst Ive EVER felt. My eyes ache, I see black specs in my vision, cant see too far ahead, permanent headache, the chest squeezing episodes are back and now my left arm spasms up for ages while its happening too(cardiac sounding which scares me so much every time). I have a 3 year old daughter...I am missing out on her childhood.

 

I want to stop this. Im scared that I am in tolerance and wont be able to cut down using lorazepam alone. This is HELL. I hate the idea of adding another benzo into this equation..like the diazepam and have read mixed reviews on it. I was very tempted by a water titration or even a liquid suspension that the GP said he could get me and Id draw from that making small tapers. Is this possible considering how bad im feeling now? My TEETH even hurt today. I feel awful.

 

Please any advice would be welcomed. I am very sensitive to drugs (hence why I only started off  taking 0.25 once a day in the past) and am scared of adding diazepam whilst being on the lorazepam

 

Thanks in advance

 

C

xxx

 

 

[[La...]]

chlhobbs:

 

The numbness, tingling and loss of sensation even the teeth hurting and chest tightness, dizziness, feeling like I would just fall over and faint...were/are ALL symptoms I have/had while on lorazepam. That is not to say that you don't have other problems I am not aware of, but most of what you describe was a typical day for me while on this poison drug.

[[Ma...]]

Hi Chi,

 

It sounds like you are not taking a steady dose of lorazepam.  You've been taking it for 2 years?  Sounds like maybe your body has grown dependent on it and you are just not taking a steady dose, so you are probably having interdose withdrawals because your dose is just either not sufficient or not steady or both.

 

Since you're already taking it 3-4 times a day, maybe just go ahead and take a steady dose of 1 mg a day.  Perhaps break it up into four doses of .25 and take them approx. every six hours.  Maybe you will feel better once you get on a dose that is not so up and down.  Then you can work on gradually reducing.

[[ch...]]

thankyou so much. Ive been on it on and off it (mostly off) since aug 2011 but took it more from feb 2013 and especially from june 2013. I know what you mean about doses. For example I took 0.25 at 730am, 1230pm, and 545pm... but yesterday was at different times (similar but not the same)I think this is partly because I keep telling myself taking it more often will give me another problem and that all these horrible symptoms are really some sort of cancer, heart problem etc.....

 

C xxx

[[cl...]]

Wife is moving between windows (can talk about symptoms as symptoms) and waves (where symptoms are her reality). She insisted on moving from 3.25mg to 3.0mg today after one week at 3.25mg. That is about a 7% cut. I am praying for her.

[[cl...]]

My wife is on her second day at 3mg. She had a quieter night but is a bit weepy this morning and has some fear but appears to be to a lessor degree.

 

We will hold at 3mg for at least a week if not more. We have our first visit to our Benzo Wize doctor a week from tomorrow (Saturday). It will be good to be under the care of someone who has helped over a 100 others through this maze of fear and lies presented by the benzo withdrawal experience.

 

The only comfort I have is from Heather Ashton. She reminds us that with a slow taper symptoms are temporary. They may hurt but can't hurt us permanently. Time heals all and most importantly healing in inevitable. I hold on to this thought with confidence and patience and share it with my wife often.

[[ce...]]

My wife is on her second day at 3mg. She had a quieter night but is a bit weepy this morning and has some fear but appears to be to a lessor degree.

 

We will hold at 3mg for at least a week if not more. We have our first visit to our Benzo Wize doctor a week from tomorrow (Saturday). It will be good to be under the care of someone who has helped over a 100 others through this maze of fear and lies presented by the benzo withdrawal experience.

 

The only comfort I have is from Heather Ashton. She reminds us that with a slow taper symptoms are temporary. They may hurt but can't hurt us permanently. Time heals all and most importantly healing in inevitable. I hold on to this thought with confidence and patience and share it with my wife often.

 

  This is 100% accurate.  This is temporary.  I used to think, if I can get through one more minute I'll make it, one more hour I can make it, one more day I can make it.

 

She has wonderful support which most people don't, so she is already ahead of the game.  She is very blessed. 

[[La...]]

I need some real help here.  My taper from 1mg down to 0.45mg had its ups and downs but I could grit my teeth and get through it. Howeve I may have gotten overambitious.. my recent cut from 0.45 to 0.35 has sent me spiraling into a brutal world of constant hurt. I am in my fourth day post cut and I don't know what to do. I just keep hoping I will stabilize. Then I can take things much slower. I really don't want to updose especially if I am only a few days from stabilizing. The suffering is really intolerable. I have been on only 1 dose at bedtime for insomnia. Will doing a split dose reduce suffering? Or will shifting my nighttime dose down cause a whole new set of problems? Will I ever wake up from this nightmare? Just seeking some help and encouragement. Thank you.

[[La...]]

Does it really get this painful and difficult the lower one goes in dose?

[[...]]

Hi,

Sorry to hear you are suffering.  I have been there and you have my complete empathy.

 

You are in the range that is equivalent to 5mg valium where many need to slow down.  I made the mistake of fighting thru symptoms and it definitely cost me more time.  I wish I had updosed and regrouped it cost me time and added agony too.  So my suggestion would be to updose and look at it as the fastest way off.

 

I never had a problem splitting doses, but I feel it will only help interdose symptoms.

 

I wish you only the best.

[[cl...]]

My wife is holding at 3mg daily. She seems to be settling in. Still lots of fear, paranoia and obsessive requests.

 

We have our initial visit to our benzo wise doctor on Saturday. It will be good to be under the care of someone that has tapered over 100 benzo patients using Ashton.

 

It would be good to get her symptoms to the point that she can function more closely to normal. We shall see.

[[Ma...]]

Hi Laser,

 

I can't really speak on how it is at low doses.  Splitting your dose might help.  This is very distressing I know.  Hugs.

[[le...]]

Hello everyone

 

I have stabilized on spreading my doses to 4 times a day. I switched to liquid A 3 days ago and, so far, so good.  I have a couple of questions about beginning my daily microtaper.  It was suggested that I start reducing the dose by .002 mg per day.

 

Example: Monday=3mg -.002mg =2.998 mg Total daily A intake

Tuesday=2.998 mg - .002 mg= 2.996 mg Total daily A intake etc.

That would put me down 1/4 mg in 4 months. Does this look right?

 

I understand that I would need to adjust at the lower doses, etc. But, even not factoring in any holding periods and assuming a steady .002 mg drop every day, that puts me at FOUR YEARS???

 

Good grief! Sitting here at the beginning, looking to the end of the line, in a perfect world...could this be correct? 

[[...]]

Hi,

That's a good starting point, but it only that - a starting point.  It would suck if you jumped in and started too high and got sick, so IMO a good way to proceed is to start low and search for your best cut from the bottom up.  I'd suggest giving each cut a minimum of two weeks.

 

Good luck! 

[[le...]]

I'm not sure what you mean by giving each cut a minimum of two weeks...I would be cutting .002 mg daily.

 

Maybe you're saying to give the daily cuts of.002 at least 2 weeks before deciding to cut more or cut less?

 

And four years to complete a taper off of 3 mg A is not unreasonable??

 

Thank you!

Lea

[[...]]

Hi Lea,

Yes, that is what I meant - if a daily cut seems ok and you feel good, I'd say give it at least two weeks before you try to increase it.  A best cut for you exists and this is how I would go about finding it if it were me.

 

I think four years is unreasonable, but eminently preferable to tapering faster than your body allows.

 

Don't worry.  It is likely you will be able to move much more quickly. 

[[Ma...]]

Hi Lea,

 

How did you arrive at the decision to micro-cut?  Not everybody does that.  I am not doing that.  I went down from 3 mgs by cutting .125 every two weeks.  I think it took 8 months for me to get from 3 mgs to 1 mg.

 

Now I am cutting by .0625 about every two weeks.  .125 every two weeks is a reasonable amount to cut.  That would take about a year.  I personally don't believe it needs to take 4 years to get off your dose. 

 

It's going to take me about 2 years total but I was on an extremely high dose.  I started at 6 mgs Klonopin, was moved to 8 mgs Ativan, that's a lot.  I was on 3 mgs in January and I plan to be off by this coming February.

 

You can see what I did by looking at my plog.