Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[po...]]

thanks Tina, I alternate between being okay and being really really nervous, guess thats to be expected.

 

I think it makes sense for you to hold for a while, until you've improved and then you realize you've stopped improving from the hold.  It was really tough after a big cut of Ativan (.5mg overnight).  I was frightened about going crazy.  Strangely it helped to learn and repeat the simple but important facts about withdrawal

... the only way out of this is through

... this is temporary and will pass

...its about rebuilding pathways not stopping a drug

....i have to listen to and learn about my own body and its needs and speed in withdrawal

..  notice and catch the moment and avoid falling into the trap of fearful thoughts - this stops those big loops into terror and anxiety.  I don't always catch the thinking that takes me into an anxiety spiral, but I often can now, its a great tool to learn. 

 

 

and finally, the one alas i struggle to learn

 

... a window eventually closes, and can be followed by a wave and vice versa.  This doesn't mean I'll never get better, it just means this is an unpredictable process. 

 

okay, off to attack the work i have to do before Tuesday, if it was a cartoon, my desk would have a cable car to the top of my paper mountain

 

 

poppins

 

 

 

 

 

[[be...]]

I'm just copying this from my Introduction. A few of you have said hello and thank you. It's really the first time I haven't felt totally alone in this since it began. NO ONE around you who is not going through it can possibly understand.

Even when they are sincerely trying... Anyway,

 

 

I'm Andy. I self medicated my anxiety with ativan for only 20 days averaging about 3mgs a day. I was totally ignorant of the drug and just CTed. After a few days I realized I was experiencing wd symptoms. The worst of which was the crushing onset of anxiety that was unlike I had ever known. I went back up to 1mg for a few days then .5 mg for a few days then off again thinking that would be enough. Felt great for 3 days again then was slammed again and worse. Reinstated at .5 mgs a day for a week with steady withdrawal symptoms and crept back up to 1 mg a day. Finally saw an addiction psychiatrist who has up dosed me back to 2mgs a day for a week then we are going to begin the taper. Even with the most recent up-dose I'm still swarming with anxiety and symptoms like dizziness, loss of appetite, fog, irritability, and fearrrrrrrrr. I'm afraid I'm just too spun out now to stabilize.

 

Any help or kind words of advice would be appreciated. I'm really scared. And I'm hoping I stabilize more before the taper begins or else I'm going to have to quit my job and who knows what else.

 

Been looking to this site for the roughly 2 months this has been going on. Finally joining. Thanks for having me.

 

 

-a

 

[[sa...]]

Andy, you will stabilize. Stay with us, don't lose your faith. Your brain needs lots of time to rewire. We're here to support you! 

[[sa...]]

Ladies, I think I'm having a very bad day. I feel very dizzy, my heart is racing, I don't get enough air and I feel terrible. Does this sound familiar to any of you?  :'(

[[be...]]

Thanks so much satasha x 2. I'm having a better day now that this up dose seems to be taking somewhat. I drew a big calendar on my studio wall and I am going to be checking off the days. What a total nightmare.

 

I'm so glad you all are here.

 

I cant wait till I feel good enough that I might have the energy to help someone else in this situation.

 

[[sa...]]

Yes, it's a nightmare. But many of us feel so free afterwards that we change a lot in our lives, and actually believe that we've grown. I sure do. I hope you will, too.

[[Ti...]]

Satasha--I'm sorry you're not feeling well.  Better today?  I have had a past tough week, I was just praying earlier that I could go back in time and never have taken those stupid pills.  But here I am.  Reality.  Luckily, I've never been dizzy, but I'm sure that's just w/d so don't worry, it will pass

[[Kl...]]

Thanks so much satasha x 2. I'm having a better day now that this up dose seems to be taking somewhat. I drew a big calendar on my studio wall and I am going to be checking off the days. What a total nightmare.

 

I'm so glad you all are here.

 

I cant wait till I feel good enough that I might have the energy to help someone else in this situation.

 

I had a similar short term history with ativan to yours.....Got hit with a very loud tinniuts last February and March and was up to 3mg/day. I crashed and burned my way down to 0.75mgs before finding BB and Ashton in July. You got smart about benzos a lot faster than I did. However, I would encourage you to talk to your doctor about switching to valium by the time you are down to 1mg/day ativan.......it is just tough to get lower on Ativan for most people...even with the liquid....because of Ativans short half life.

[[be...]]

Thank you for sharing Klondike! I'm VERY causioisly optimistic right now because, although im experiencing some anxiety and CRAZY tinnitus between doses, the up-dose back to 2mg seems to have restored my sanity a little. I asked my doc about valium and he just giggled a little and said that hes not comfortable prescribing me any new benzos. I guess he thinks I will abuse them or something. This is valid considering how I got myself in this spot. How was your crossover to valium?  That is the only thing that worries me. It seems like it might prolong the whole ordeal. I really hope I can manage a direct taper for simplicity's sake. Your reply gives me encouragement thank you.

[[Kl...]]

My Crossover was very easy . I crossed from 0.75mgs/day Ativan to 7.5mg/day Valium in two weeks (they recommend a month...which might have reduced my moderate level of symptoms. They also recommend holding at the new Valium dose for  a month to let your system "saturate"....I only held for 4 days before making a 0.5mg cut in the Valium dose. I then cut 0.5mgs every week. I slept great for the first few weeks after crossing. Only dosed twice a day and I could miss a dose by several hours and not feel and interdose wd. My morning symptoms were the worst so I took more of my daily total in my morning 2am dose.

 

Throughout my taper I always had some anxiety and nausea in the morning (8am-Noon). Days 5-7 were when I felt the cut and the symptoms would extend into the afternoon. Perhaps if I had crossed slower or tapered slower I would not have had quite as much??  I am retired and I just wanted off the benzos as fast as I could stand it. I used Benedryl and Phenergan (need a script for Phenergan) for "bad days". They are both antihistamines so they are great for anxiety and sleep....Phenergan is very good for nausea as well. They are not physically addicting. Most of us build tolerance for them quickly so we only use them sparingly and rotate between different types of antihistamines (including visterol (Hydroxizine), and mecalazine (Dramamine)).

 

I would recommend that you take a copy of the Ashton Manual to your Doctor and explain why you want to cross to Valium ....at least tell him you want the liquid ativan by the time you are down to 1mg/day...4 doses/day. And if you get nausea then also ask for a perscription for phenergan (same thing they treat women for morning sickness). And maybe a script for visterol as well........that may help convince him that you are looking hard for ways to cut and reduce wd symptoms. Change Docs if you have too???

 

I would recommend

[[be...]]

I'm wondering if anyone wants to give me an honest account of what I can expect. My symptoms are basically tolerable now, but they don't seem to coincide with my doses. They just appear out of nowhere and can be really frightening.

And when I take a pill, sometimes there is zero relief.

I guess what I want to know is, does the anxiety gradually bet better throughout the taper or worse. Give it to me straight.

 

I am doing a million things to quell the anxiety. Guided meditations, exercise, chamomile tea...

 

I guess the main fear when it's happening is that I will lose my mind and become totally psychotic. Should this be something I am worrying about?

 

Thanks yall.

 

 

a

[[Su...]]

hard to predict (psychosis is highly unlikely, I wouldn't worry about it and yes its very normal for people to worry about it). But I can recommend listening to your body, don't get too excited when you feel good and make too large of a cut (I learned the hard way)..  The slower and steadier the better.  Racing off this stuff is only asking for trouble, and its hard to predict when the trouble might hit you (some members don't get slammed until weeks or even months after their taper is complete, not to scare you just a fair warning).  To avoid more pain later in your taper I would make sure to take your time and not get carried away with your cuts.  A rule of thumb is a 10% reduction every 7-14 days, although most can get away with larger cuts in the beginning.  Also, many users report an increase is sx's as they get closer to the end.  Hope this helps and we'll be here for you along the way!

[[sa...]]

I also had that, the symptoms not matching the times I took my meds. Many others, too. I believe it's among other things because the brain needs to rewire the GABA receptors and might not do it always at the sme rate. Also, your body-chemistry isn't always the same during the day, etc.

I had some very good days, most of the time I was just ok, some days I felt bad and did not know what was going on, but I never had very very very bad days as in psychosis or something.

[[be...]]

Thank you both for taking time to respond. The one one thing I'm unclear on is the 10% thing. Is everyone using liquid? How can you cut pills that are in quarters in 10 percent increments ?

 

Thanks!

[[sa...]]

That's why doing the liquid thing is easier... 

Dosing is more accurate, so there's at least one thing you have control of!

[[Kl...]]

Thank you both for taking time to respond. The one one thing I'm unclear on is the 10% thing. Is everyone using liquid? How can you cut pills that are in quarters in 10 percent increments ?

 

Thanks!

 

I tried dry cutting 0.5mg Ativan pills....very difficult to get below 1mg/day. Lots of interdose wd from uneven cuts even with 4-6 doses/day....6 hour half-life of Ativan is just to flashy...especially at lower doses. I have a friend on BB who ended up trying several scales to weigh his Ativan doses....finally ended up with an expensive lab grade scale....and now at 0.2mg/day Ativan he has switched to the liquid.

 

You will save yourself a lot of hassle and pain by getting the liquid or switching to Valium if your doc is supportive.

[[of...]]

If you read the literature on withdrawing from benzos the most important point always made is to take your time.

 

Dry cutting these high potency designer benzos is just not a good way to get off.  YOu can not minimize symptoms when you are cutting big chuncks.  YOu are just going to throw yourself into withdrawal hell.  First couple cuts may be tolerable,  but eventually it all catches up. 

 

Everytime you make a 10 percent cut,  you have to redo that math for the next cut.  You will eventually get yourself to the point where 10 percent on the high potency benzos is way too painful to do. The ten percent rule applies to valium. 

Water titration or liquid titration is really the only way to get off these high potency benzos and minimize the fallout. 

 

YOu totally increase your chances for symptoms like psychosis,  seizure etc... when you try to get around the take it slow rule.  My first night in detox they cut me 5 mgs of valium,  the symptoms were almost spontaneous.  It wasn't fun,  and quite frankly I was shocked,  I still had 15 mgs to go.  I gained a newfound respect for the power of these drugs.

 

It amazes me still that people are opposed to water or liquid titration.  It truly is the only way to come directly off these high potency benzos with the least amount of suffering. 

 

If it were me,  I would do myself and favor and start water titrating immediately, what you do in the beginning of your taper will eventually bite you . 

 

If you have the time to give yourself to slam off these drugs and then recover without worrying about work, bills etc..  that's one thing,  but it will take you at least 2 years to heal and the first 6 months will probably make you wish you had gone about it in another way. 

 

good luck and take very good care of yourself  zoe

[[be...]]

Part of me wonders that if you are splitting .5mg into 4 doses of .125 that maybe your body just isnt getting enough in one single shot to feel any relief of symptoms. Therefore you would just be in constant wd. Where as if you just popped the .5 once a day you would at least be getting a little of the kick your body is looking for. Either way, my plan is to just jump from .25 a day after holding there a while. It would seem that if you are somewhat stable there that there is no reason to drag it out. That dose is almost the same as taking none. At that point it would have to be almost totally psychological it seems.

[[be...]]

I see me doc again thursday and I will ask about water titration and valium. But is it not the case that the vast majority of people who take therapeutic doses of benzos only need to dry cut to come off of them? Don't they just cut at a very slow rate and are done at some point? My doctor has been prescribing short term benzo use for 18 years and assures me that this is all I will need. Is he lying? This seems crazy to me that a drug prescribed for fragile people would be this insane to kick!

[[Kl...]]

Benzo down lately, The 0.25mg jump you propose would be too much for a lot of people....but you are a short-time user and if you are young you may be able to stand it. For me...since I crossed to valium...it would be like jumping off at 2.5mg/day valium....that is a lot....I jumped at 0.5mgs. Jumping early does not seem to shorten the time that it takes the brain to heal....It just seems to increase the pain.

 

And your earlier post about just doing one 0.5mg dose /day instead of a lot of little ones.....With a 6 hour half-life for Ativan I think you will find yourself having major interdose wd. I am also a short term user of Ativan and I was shocked at how quickly I was addicted.

[[of...]]

I see me doc again thursday and I will ask about water titration and valium. But is it not the case that the vast majority of people who take therapeutic doses of benzos only need to dry cut to come off of them? Don't they just cut at a very slow rate and are done at some point? My doctor has been prescribing short term benzo use for 18 years and assures me that this is all I will need. Is he lying? This seems crazy to me that a drug prescribed for fragile people would be this insane to kick!

 

Considering you have already done a ct, and then reinstated,  I think you have an idea what can happen if you go too fast.

 

Is your doctor lying?  No I don't think he or she is lying,  I just don't think they are benzo wise. 

 

Cutting big amounts in a short period of time may just yield the same result as the ct you just ex perienced. 

 

It takes sometime for all of us to realized the gravity of the benzo situation.  I know it did me.  I learned some very hard lessons and caused myself a lot of pain and suffering thinking that I was more powerful than benzos. 

[[be...]]

I definitely understand what you are saying and I fully intend to proceed with the utmost of caution. But my cold turkey, which was essentially the worst feeling of my life, was a cut from 3mgs a day to zero mgs a day. I would never do anything even remotely like that again.

I'm just wondering if the fear of jumping off has people weening down to pointlessly small amounts and prolonging the withdrawal process.

 

I don't claim to know, I'm just curious. I guess I'll just listen to my body, but also my intuition tells me that a little aggressiveness might be necessary for me.

 

I guess we'll see...

[[of...]]

I'm just wondering if the fear of jumping off has people weening down to pointlessly small amounts and prolonging the withdrawal process.

 

 

It's really not something you can forecast.  I know someone who was on Ativan for a month at a theraputic dose,  she ct'ed,  her withdrawal was in many ways more horrible than mine,  high dose user for many years. 

 

I don't think it is pointless to be very cautious,  the reality is that slower is better with benzos.  It doesn't seem to matter how high the dose or how long you have been on for a lot of people.

 

The damage they cause takes a long time to recover from. 

[[be...]]

I know. I can already feel the temptation to get cocky when I'm feeling particularly good one day to think that I can just slam through this taper.

 

I am however going to try the direct taper using .5mg pills and quartering them. If I experience  too much discomfort then I will tweak the plan.

 

I'm really hoping my short term, relatively low dose history will work in my favor.

 

I really appreciate the advice here. I think it's great that strangers are so willing to care for and help other strangers through such a difficult time.

 

Why on earth are these drugs still prescribed so often and for so long? Why do they remain legal? Why do doctors and the public in general seem so ignorant to what to me seems like an epidemic?

[[Su...]]

I'm on .25 3x aday and still feeling terrible. What should I do?