Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[be...]]

Hi av club. Looks like this thread has a whole new cast. Glad you are all here. Or at least given the circumstances. I'm on a liquid Ativan solution. Holding at .24mg a day because I have a super important work month and I don't want to deal with wd.

I would say be careful of the sweeping ideas you have about tapering from Ativan or any opinions on how to do it at all. It's different for everyone and its REALLY different when you get close to the end.

It constantly has to be modified and rethought to suit your mind and body. Just keep moving forward in a way that is comfortable to you. Good luck!

 

BDL

[[Ho...]]

BDL, I swear we have a psychic connection...I was just thinking this morning about how you were doing and was encouraged that you WEREN'T logging on -- not that I don't enjoy your company (I do!!!) -- but I was thinking it was a good sign that your functionality was continuing.

 

How is the girlfriend?  And the trip to Thailand, are you going??!!

 

Mairin -- YEAH, GIRL @ 5.....woo hooo....progress is continuing girlfriend!  How are you feeling with your bp?  Hope you got some relief there.  It's cooler here now in the NE, and that has allowed me to get outside and walk, and be in the yard.  Ativan was horrible on my heat tolerance, and I still have issues 2 months off, but I love fall!!

 

Keep up the good work AV club...remember my way (not C/T but still really fast) is not the way to go.  I'm encouraged that all of you are going slow and steady and listening to your bodies because that will ultimately win the race.

 

I'm almost 2 months off (woot woot) and I'll post an update when I celebrate that day!

[[ce...]]

Hi av club. Looks like this thread has a whole new cast. Glad you are all here. Or at least given the circumstances. I'm on a liquid Ativan solution. Holding at .24mg a day because I have a super important work month and I don't want to deal with wd.

I would say be careful of the sweeping ideas you have about tapering from Ativan or any opinions on how to do it at all. It's different for everyone and its REALLY different when you get close to the end.

It constantly has to be modified and rethought to suit your mind and body. Just keep moving forward in a way that is comfortable to you. Good luck!

 

BDL

Wise words BDL.  Hope things are going okay. 

[[Li...]]

Thanks BDL!  You're right, everyone's taper is and will be a little different.  Good advice .24! You're so close!  Kudos for knowing when to listen to your body........when to hold!  That's easier said than done

 

I'd like to reiterate to others who may be contemplating a liquid A taper using WATER, it CAN be done and HAS been done successfully by many.  No, it won't completely "mix" with the water but it will suspend well.  Obviously, the key is to shake very well before dosing.  Evidently, some versions of Lorazepam/Ativan will disperse more evenly than others, however, no suspension liquid, chemicals (ie what the drug companies use (when used by non professionals), milk, water, etc., will perfectly mix or "suspend" the drug.  One can get relatively close though by following the exact protocol for each and every dose, lessening the margin for error in dose amounts greatly. 

 

That being said, if it works for you, do it.  It's wonderful to share our experiences with others on the board, as well as, interested guests.  Isn't that why we're here?  Of course with the caveat being, our advice shouldn't/doesn't replace that of a well informed, benzo wise, doctor or professional pharmaceutical chemist. 

 

Blanket statements that one specific method is totally wrong are counter productive because we know that if it works for some, it can't be totally wrong.  Respectful sharing of opinions is what, I believe, this forum is all about. 

 

Have a peaceful day

[[Ma...]]

Hi BDL, so glad to hear from you. You seem to be a super smart guy.  I really do believe in holding when you need to.  I read something recently by Bliss Johns, that you should hold for 3 weeks after any cut.  That's the new word coming out of the UK, where they seem to have a bit better movement to understand this benzo thing than here in the states.

 

That said, I think she means the Ashton method of cutting.  Perhaps you don't have to hold that long with a microtaper, but I don't know I have not started water titration yet.  I am dismayed that I am on such a high dose.  And I'm not on 5 yet Hoosierfan, I'm still at 5.5 and holding.  Wish I was at 5.  I won't be there for about another month if all goes well.  But at least I'm not on 6 now.  The bp issue has eased a bit, I think possibly because I reduced at bit but more because its a bit cooler here, but still hot.  Also drinking V-8 and eating bananas and have increased my water intake.

 

I'm glad the water titration is working for you LITN.  Its a big step to do that in my mind.  Just don't get ahead of yourself, this is potent stuff.

 

Love to you all

Mairin

[[Li...]]

Thanks Mairinn . You're so right!  I'm holding steady for a few more weeks.......biting my nails along the way

 

The V8 seems to be helping with the BP too......so much tastier than salt water

[[Ti...]]

Hello everyone! Back to this great forum again to ask for advice.

 

Quick recap... this is for my 65year old father. 30 years on Ativan.

 

From Aug 14th to Sept 10 he went on vacation and managed to go down from 7.5 Valium to 4.5 pretty easily. First 10 days of Sept he was feeling the best he felt in years. Everything looked positive.

 

Back to his normal routine after that and withdrawal symptoms came back. Had to up the dose from 4.5 to 6 mg Valium. Not much success. Constant anxiety and depression. On the verge of panic attacks. 

 

I understand this was very fast taper, but then again he had no regular dose as a reference all these years so he kept going by how he felt.

 

your advice needed...... should he up the dose again to 7.5mg or tough it out here at 6. He is in really bad shape, nerve breaking anxiety, death thoughts. How many bad days before updosing? Is this a storm that will subside or the good ten days were the anomaly?

 

 

 

[[aw...]]

 

...I would say be careful of the sweeping ideas you have about tapering from Ativan or any opinions on how to do it at all. It's different for everyone and its REALLY different when you get close to the end.

It constantly has to be modified and rethought to suit your mind and body. Just keep moving forward in a way that is comfortable to you. Good luck!

 

BDL

 

Thanks, BDL. Could you clarify what you mean by "sweeping ideas I have about tapering from Ativan"? Also, what should I be careful about regarding "any opinions on how to do it at all"?

 

I'm not trying to bait you, I really would like to know what you mean. I have a tentative hope that I can taper directly from A without the c/o, but I know that it's an inherently difficult drug to taper, which is why most people taper from V or K. What do you know about this?

 

Aweigh

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Hey Aweigh. It's totally fair for you to ask me to clarify. I was only reminding anyone new to this process that the only method that is definitely going to work for them is the one that does.

 

I hadn't been in here in a while and I noticed a lot of advice flying around. Which is good on the one hand. That's one of the reasons we come here. But some of it is coming from people still on high doses. I can only say that from my experience that cutting from high doses is the easy part. And your plan needs to change as you get lower. Or at least mine did. And so did that of several before me.

 

When I wrote to be careful of sweeping ideas, I meant take all of the advice here with a grain of salt. ALL of the advice. Even Ashton's. Try methods. If its working stick with it until it doesn't. Slow it down. Speed it up. But listen to your body. It takes a while to figure this out. A lot of trial and error. I'm on my 8th month. But I'm mostly symptom free at the moment. That is not to say that I didn't go through patches of hell to get here. I went too fast several times and had to hold for weeks and weeks. Once I even updosed a bit because it got too ugly. The point is no one will hold your hand through all of it. It's up to ones self to get a handle on it. And you will.

 

BDL

 

[[Ho...]]

Hey Mairin -- I meant that you were in the 5's....so that is a WOOT WOOT (even if it is 5.5).  Every step is a step closer, friend!!!  Glad to hear that you and LITN are getting some relief from the bp!

[[aw...]]

Hey Aweigh. It's totally fair for you to ask me to clarify. I was only reminding anyone new to this process that the only method that is definitely going to work for them is the one that does.

 

I hadn't been in here in a while and I noticed a lot of advice flying around. Which is good on the one hand. That's one of the reasons we come here. But some of it is coming from people still on high doses. I can only say that from my experience that cutting from high doses is the easy part. And your plan needs to change as you get lower. Or at least mine did. And so did that of several before me.

 

When I wrote to be careful of sweeping ideas, I meant take all of the advice here with a grain of salt. ALL of the advice. Even Ashton's. Try methods. If its working stick with it until it doesn't. Slow it down. Speed it up. But listen to your body. It takes a while to figure this out. A lot of trial and error. I'm on my 8th month. But I'm mostly symptom free at the moment. That is not to say that I didn't go through patches of hell to get here. I went too fast several times and had to hold for weeks and weeks. Once I even updosed a bit because it got too ugly. The point is no one will hold your hand through all of it. It's up to ones self to get a handle on it. And you will.

 

BDL

 

I'm a little confused here. You said "I would say be careful of the sweeping ideas you have about tapering", referring to my own ideas, not other ideas on the board. "The only method that is definitely going to work for them is the one that does." This seems to be a meaningless tautology. Could you clarify? Also, I don't see how info coming from people still taking high doses relates to "cutting from high doses is the easy part". Does the dose level comromise the source; isn't that called 'poisoning the well'?

Well, I think I'll leave well enough alone.

 

Aweigh

[[be...]]

Aweigh, you seem to under the impression that the post of mine that you are taking issue with was aimed directly at you. It wasn't. Actually you seem confused in general. It might be the benzos so I'll politely explain to you what seems to me to be a simple friendly word of caution from me one more time. After that, if you still have problems with it, Im afraid all I can offer is you a slightly baffled apology.

 

"The only method that will definitely will work for you is the one that does".  You see here I'm saying that no method or rate of reduction recommended by anyone on this site is the sure fire way to discontinue benzos. It is only what is working for them at the moment. Therefore one should find ones own path in this difficult time. Therefore the only method that will DEFINITELY work for you is the one that does. Does that still strike you as meaningless tautology?

 

"I would be careful about sweeping ideas you have about tapering. Referring to my ideas not anyone else's on the board."

Once again, I wasn't referring to your ideas. In fact I don't even know what you are talking about that I might have been referring to. I don't know how my original statement could be clarified any more but I'll try.

Be careful about what you think you know or what anyone else claims to know about benzo withdrawl.

This is not an exact science. What works for one will not work for another. Once again, this is just a heads up about taking advice given here with a grain of salt. I can't really see why this confuses or bothers you. If you think it is inaccurate in some way I think it's definitely your turn to clarify.

 

Lastly, one who is toward the beginning of their taper and still at a relatively high dose of benzo can offer experiential advice uP to the point they are at but as the dose gets lower and lower withdrawal becomes more complicated and difficult for many people and requires a lot of tweaking and sometimes an entirely new approach.

Once again this is just caution. When I came to this site I was looking for someone to tell me exactly what to do to get through this. And then just as now there were a hundred voices with a hundred opinions. I found through trial and error and many docotor visits and sleepless nights that no one had the answer but me. My body and mind and spirit of will.

 

I want to encourage everyone here not to use this site as a crutch but a place to share experience and receive/give emotional support, but not to look to it as a place for answers. They aren't here. It is a useful tool to get a broad idea of what needs to be done but anything more specific than that should be considered as unprofessional opinion at best. That includes my own.

 

This is as clear as I can be. I hope you find resolve and I apologize if my original post offended you. Definitely not my intention.

 

Thanks.

 

BDL

 

 

[[Wi...]]

I so agree BLD you have to find what works for you. Before I started my water taper I read a lot of info on here. Some would say one way would work others would say it wouldn't work. I can not get mine compounded in to a liquid. So Water was the next best thing, than dry cutting.  I have gone down a 12.5 mg some times 13 mg every week and it has been working, but I am sure I will be slowing it down, I listen to my body as well and the best thing to do. I have explained what I am doing, but no way am I telling ppl what to cut that is what they have to find for them selves. I pretty much said exactly what you said to a member a few days ago. Good advice nice to meet you Bld Happy to hear everything is going good for you.

 

Hope all is going good for everyone on here I am sending positive healing vibes for everyone

 

Take care

W

[[aw...]]

Aweigh, you seem to under the impression that the post of mine that you are taking issue with was aimed directly at you. It wasn't. Actually you seem confused in general. It might be the benzos so I'll politely explain to you what seems to me to be a simple friendly word of caution from me one more time. After that, if you still have problems with it, Im afraid all I can offer is you a slightly baffled apology.

 

"The only method that will definitely will work for you is the one that does".  You see here I'm saying that no method or rate of reduction recommended by anyone on this site is the sure fire way to discontinue benzos. It is only what is working for them at the moment. Therefore one should find ones own path in this difficult time. Therefore the only method that will DEFINITELY work for you is the one that does. Does that still strike you as meaningless tautology?

 

"I would be careful about sweeping ideas you have about tapering. Referring to my ideas not anyone else's on the board." Once again, I wasn't referring to your ideas. In fact I don't even know what you are talking about that I might have been referring to. I don't know how my original statement could be clarified any more but I'll try.

Be careful about what you think you know or what anyone else claims to know about benzo withdrawl...

 

BDL

 

Hi, BDL:

No, I wasn't offended, but thank you for the apology anyway. I want to finish this now, as it doesn't seem to be a very productive hassle--no blame, just observation.

 

A couple of points I cannot let pass. "I would be careful about sweeping ideas you have about tapering. Referring to my ideas not anyone else's on the board." The first sentence clearly refers to ideas I have, not ideas you or anyone else have. The word "you" refers to me personally and no one else. That is unequivocal. Also, I find your comment of "Actually you seem confused in general. It might be the benzos so I'll politely explain to you..." to be smug, patronizing, and insulting. I'm not too confused to understand that. Otherwise, I agree with much of what you say, and I support your concerns about the dangers of believing anything just because it's posted here.

 

And after all, it's only words. We're all in the same boat, and we'd better bail together if we want to stand on the shore again.

 

No hard feelings,

 

Aweigh

 

 

 

 

[[be...]]

Congratulations on picking up on the smugness. I tend to get that way when people are oddly and unnecessarily argumentative with me. And as for the other point that you "cannot let pass", I think i can live with that. I also stand behind the original statement.

Goodnight.

 

BDL

[[be...]]

I apologize to everyone else for getting snippy. Not my usual style. It's been a very stressful few weeks. Mostly in a good way, but it's seemed to intensify the subtler aspects of my withdrawal like depression and hottiness.

 

I truly hope everyone is in or is getting to a good place this weekend.

One thing I keep forgetting is to enjoy my life when I get the chance.

Time is moving forward weather I want it to or not. Even in wd we can stop and realize how precious and amazing it all is.

 

Goodnight. Again.

 

BDL

[[ce...]]

Love your writing style BDL!  Hope you have a nice weekend. 

 

Hugs to you,

Cedar   

[[aw...]]

Hi Aweigh, glad you are back and have decided not to cross over.  I'm not saying crossover is bad and a lot of people have been helped by it, but not all benzos are the same and they each bring different problems.

 

One benefit of sticking with ativan is that you feel the cuts quickly, with valium you can't be sure when its going to hit you as it is so long with the half life.  Generally they hit quick with ativan and go away quicker, while tapering.  Also, ativan does not produce as many metabolites as Valium.

 

I am still cutting pills, want to cut until I get to 5.  Then I will probably start water titration.  I know you are a stickler for getting the solution right.  The thing is even batches of pills don't always have the same exact strengths.  So you are always going to have the problem of inexactness in this inexact world.

 

I would urge you to search for Phrianon's posts.  She doesn't have a blog but she has a LOT of experience with titration, and that with many different drugs.  She says using water has worked fine for all of them.

 

I have gotten 1 mg pills finally instead of two mgs.  still inexact but more exact that trying to cut bits out of 2 mgs pills.  I've gone down .5 over the course of about a month and a half.  So no longer on 6! 

 

My doc has come a long way from wanting to put me on topomax and take me down fast.  Now he has agreed it will probably take about a year going slow.  I think if I have to take longer than that it will be ok too.

 

Still holding at 5.5.  I am convinced slower is better than fast.

 

Hi:

 

Thanks for the encouragement. I had totally planned to cross over and a wise woman advised me to consider tapering directly. It's my first taper, and some people seem to not have a lot of trouble with A. Others have plenty. If I can't handle the sx at 4X day dosing then I'll have to c/o; but maybe I won't have to, and that would be something to try first. What do you think, and what has your experience been trying to find that elusive 'right cut'?

 

Lorazepam comes in 2, 1, and 1/2 mg tablets. Sounds like you need the 1/2 (0.5) mg guys. They are tiny! Maybe better to crush and divide than try to actually cut them. I'm tired of fighting with the MDs over why they won't Rx liquid lorazepam for me (the real reason: they are cowards) so I'll be making the solutions from tablets like most everyone else. Any pointers on that? I tend to think of myself as the expert on all things pharmaceutical because of my years of lab experience. Well, I've never even done a serial taper dilution, so maybe I should just watch the person next to me, like in high school.

 

I will look for Phrianon's posts, although I won't be using water as my solvent. And I so agree: small, frequent cutting give the best outcome. Not that I've done it yet 

 

Smooth tapering,

 

Aweigh

[[aw...]]

Cedartree:

I forgot to thank you at the time [reply 897], but your thumbsup came at a critical time and meant a lot to me.

 

Aweigh

[[be...]]

Hey cedar. I read your success story today for a little morning encouragement. I noticed that you ended up tapering from klonopin in the end. Do you think that was easier than Ativan? Did you do liquid? Just curious. My taper is taking the better part if a year and I sometimes get waves of doubt that I'll even be able to finish. Thanks!

[[ce...]]

Hey cedar. I read your success story today for a little morning encouragement. I noticed that you ended up tapering from klonopin in the end. Do you think that was easier than Ativan? Did you do liquid? Just curious. My taper is taking the better part if a year and I sometimes get waves of doubt that I'll even be able to finish. Thanks!

No, actually I had been on Klonopin for years and was switched to Ativan (in an ER), so my doctor kept me on Ativan and I tapered from that.  I started by dry cutting which I quickly learned was not going to work for the lowest doses. So my doctor prescribed smaller doses which I took to a compounding pharmacy. That worked a million times better than dry cutting.  I wish I'd known how to titrate. Either way, I'm off now and that was the end goal anyway.

[[Ma...]]

Awiegh,

 

Well yes I have the 1 mg tabs now, and its definitely easier at this point.  I mean, just cutting them.  I saw my pdoc last week and he did prescribe some .5 tabs. 

 

Just remember I am not coming down from 6 mgs Ativan.  I got put on a very high dose (ridiculous) of 6 mgs K for six months, and got switched to 8 mgs Ativan.  That was a 40 mg V equiavalent drop.  I went into a deep withdrawal state.  It took me months to stabelize from that drop.  Then, without being stable, I was pushed down to 6, which I think is the acceptable limit for ativan.

 

so far, the cuts I have made since then have not been too bad, compared to the suffering I read on here.  I'm only down .5 from 6.  I did it in two stages, .25 each.  I'm just saying that I have come down from a much higher dose, so I think maybe for you it might be even easier, since you are coming from a more stable place.

 

I'm still going to cut the pills for a while, but I am ready to start titration if it suddenly gets much worse than it has been.  I don't mind you looking over my shoulder, and I'll report how it goes with each cut.  I have a plog.  I'm absolutely no expert, I'm just doing what is working at the moment.

 

I will probably cut down in the next few days.  I've held three weeks.

 

Peace, Mairin

[[aw...]]

Thanks, Mairin. Your encouragememt is...well, very  encouraging 

Why do you want to wait until "it suddenly gets much worse than it has been" to start liquid taper? A lot of folks start to feel better within a few days of beginning it. I'm guessing it's the hassle of the math and the measurement and the newness of it. Well, I hear it's a pretty quick learn.

 

Aweigh

[[Li...]]

@[ T...]

 

You were asking for advice about your father's withdrawal symptoms from Valium.  It sounded like things were dire.  Did you get some assistance?  Has your dad stabilized? Just concerned...

 

Peace to you,

Litn

[[pl...]]

Haven't posted for a while because everything had been going swimmingly.  I've been dry cutting about every 4-5 days, waiting for the withdrawals symptoms to tell me when to slow down.  Today it kicked in hard with the anxious gut and the anxiety and even some hot flashes for a while.  Just got back from a long, hard powerwalk to try to sweat it out of me.

 

Just yesterday I was wondering if my lack of hard symptoms meant I should just jump off now.  Today I'm thinking I need to park at this admittedly small dosage for a while.