Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[ce...]]

Thanks for the reply Cedar.  They tell me I am not having w/d  but just anxiety.  My anxiety is so bad I can't tell.  I haven't slept for 5 months.  My brain is foggy.  I also know that meds do not do a thing.  A placebo will probaby do as much except for the pain and sedation, which is what they tried to do for me.  It backfired too.  So,  I may never know if it is anxiety or w/d.  It all hurts just the same.  real or imagined.  A brain can do funny things to us.

WD causes extreme anxiety. It's a paradoxical reaction and it's extremely normal to have anxiety as a symptom of wd.  So, it is anxiety caused by wd.  It's not just the brain, it's your entire central nervous system has been compromised/ harmed.  :'(

[[Ga...]]

Try some L-theanine to take the edge off, Gardenlady?  I haven't needed to use theanine yet so I don't know how well it works, but i have an unopened bottle on my desk waiting in case i get desperate.

 

 

I cut down to .75mg a few days early last night.  My impatience will get the best of me; I want so badly to rip the band-aid off and let the hurting and healing start even though rationally I know it's dumb.  Nothing bad yet besides a tension and a tightness in my shoulders.

 

I have some L theanine, but have never opened the bottle. I was thinking there was some reason we were not supposed to use it.  I have not been able to fine just Theanne. 

[[Ma...]]

Garden Lady, L-Teanine is what you want.  My doc even recommended it.  I haven't tried it yet either.

 

Another med you might ask for is hydroxyzine, many people on this board use it for sleep.  Its an antihistamine, non addictive.  I used it in the beginning when I was very anxious with my first cuts, but since I've stabelized better I don't find I need it.

 

However I am on a much higher dose than you are.

 

Sometimes just a simple benedryl will help.

[[Ga...]]

Doctors and therapist in detox centers tell you that the withdrawls usually don't start until 4 or 5 days after you stop taking the drug.  IF that is so, why do we feel it so accutel so soon.  Is it just my nerves?  I do know that the lorazepam has such a short 1/2 life that we get inter dose w/d.   

Yesterday I waited to take my .6 dose until mignight and I had nearly moved to taking it 4 times a day to get ready for micro tapor, but the doctor told me not to do that and would not give me enough drug to do it.  So,  I am back to once a day.  Slept 6 hours last night and all of those nasty little electric feeling and muscle twitches are gone.  I just couldn't make them go away by thinking it was just a panic attack.  They were pretty persistant all day.  I can't help but think it was w/d.

 

[[Ma...]]

Here is the thread Garden Lady

 

I'm still holding at 5.5 mg.

[[Ga...]]

Thanks Mairin,  I may use that L-Theanine.  I am having lots of w/d symptoms.  They are bearable and they are breakthrough w/d.  My stomach is on fire and I don't really want to eat.  My muscles are all tense and my jaw feels almost numb.  I have a cough that has been coming on for the last couple weeks and now it almost gags me to eat.  I also am clearing my throat all the time cause when I breath it tickles.  The drug no longer seems to do anything for me.  IT's like I"m taking a sugar pill.  the doctor put me on a strict fast tapor and I'm supposed to drop 1/4 of a .5 pill on every Tuesday for the next 4 weeks.  I've been on this stuff 5 months.  I do want off and am wondering if a detox center would be safer and easier than 4 weeks of this.  IF you guys have an opionion.  Lets hear it.  I'm assuming that every cut the w/d will get worse.  I'm a wimp.  I think it's bad enough already.  I'm assuming that in Acute w/d  people can hardly get out of bed.  Yet they are telling me they take hot baths, and eat .  Sounds imposible to me.  You people are amazing and strong. 

[[ce...]]

Detox centers are brutal. Just ask others who've gone that route. They all wish they'd never done it. 

[[Li...]]

Gardenlady, I'm with Cedar.  It's hard for any of us to gauge what you're feeling....... What are w/d's and what could be panic/anxiety.  Either/or is and can be horrible.  So many of us have felt both w/d and acute anxiety......... For me anyway..... The sx are very very similar.  Personally, I wouldn't go the in patient detox center route.  It sounds like your doc has a 4 week plan for you anyway.  Will he give you your supply up front?  If so, possibly you could cut his prescribed cuts in half and double the time? Has he referred you to a psych doc for help with anxiety?  Or maybe an herbalist in your area.  I know that Oregon is known for amazing herbalists/naturopaths.......... I'm not sure if you've gone that route?

 

I really really hope you find some relief soon..........

 

Peace my dear,

 

Litn

[[Ga...]]

Thanks for the reply.  NO more drugs.  the doc said I only needed about 20 pills to do the job about a week ago.  I had about 40, but he didn't know that.  Actually, I am so run down from lack of sleep, weight loss, and anxiety, that I'm not sure I could endure more than 4 weeks of this.  I may change my mind after the next couple of .125 cuts.  I have an appointment withe a pdoc in 2 weeks,but she has already said she would not give me any medications because they only panic me more.  I have ordered some time release 1mg melatonin.  I was dependent on melatonin for sleep when I went in for surgery in May but didn't realize it.  Actually never thought about the 5mg of melatonin I popped every night for about 6 weeks before surgery.  After surgery I was reading info on melatonin and then realized what a powerful little thing it is.  I think the reason I didn't sleep after surgery is because I wasn't taking the melatonin  That may be what started the whole thing.  I don't know a good herbalist/naturopath.  I know there are some good ones in Porltand and Eugene, but that is at least 1 hr drive one way for either and please remember I am very short on sleep.  right now about 2 hrs or less a night with the melatonin.  Another reason for the panic attacks.  I don't see any relief in sight until this is over.  It is a very depressing thought.  God I'd love some sleep.  I realize that I am not being very optimistic.  My therapist tells me I am very negave.  It would be preferable and nice if I could change my way of thinking to more  optimistic ways.  I need to work on that.  I need to think of the best and get my mind on other things.    Itrust God knows what is best.  I have prayed for him t help me through this.  He has always helped me before.  I can only trust he has a plan for me this time too. Thanks for the info.  I'm glad to know that the sx you had are similar to mine. AT least I don't feel like I'm the odd duck. 

[[ce...]]

I may change my mind after the next couple of .125 cuts. 

 

I have an appointment withe a pdoc in 2 weeks,but she has already said she would not give me any medications because they only panic me more. 

 

I'm glad to know that the sx you had are similar to mine. AT least I don't feel like I'm the odd duck.

 

If I was a betting woman, I'd say you'll definitely change your mind after .125 mgs cuts.  (4 weeks is WAY too fast IMO)

 

Adding more meds is a definite bad idea, but tapering in 4 weeks is also a bad idea.  I just can't stress that enough.

 

Many people experience all kinds of horrible symptoms and that's why forums like this exist.  You're not an odd duck.  It's very commonplace.

 

Please be wise. Don't rush it.  There's no reason to make this worse than it needs to be.   

[[di...]]

Doctors and therapist in detox centers tell you that the withdrawls usually don't start until 4 or 5 days after you stop taking the drug.  IF that is so, why do we feel it so accutel so soon.  Is it just my nerves?  I do know that the lorazepam has such a short 1/2 life that we get inter dose w/d.   

Yesterday I waited to take my .6 dose until mignight and I had nearly moved to taking it 4 times a day to get ready for micro tapor, but the doctor told me not to do that and would not give me enough drug to do it.  So,  I am back to once a day.  Slept 6 hours last night and all of those nasty little electric feeling and muscle twitches are gone.  I just couldn't make them go away by thinking it was just a panic attack.  They were pretty persistant all day.  I can't help but think it was w/d.

 

Hi Garden Lady...writing to you because your story is somewhat similar.  You used Ativan only for sleep as I am currently doing.  I'm at .5 now for 6 months.  This is the second time I've used it for sleep in my life. (Medical reasons also).

 

I've been reading this forum for about a week for so now and just introduced myself a few days ago.  I don't have a signature because I don't have a plan.  So far, I only plan to...

 

1.  NOT make a plan yet.

2.  NOT change to another benzo that "might" be easier to taper off of.  That I know.

3.  NOT change my evening dose if I do plan to taper off.  I will not take four doses of it during the day.  This I know too.

 

This is a stupid question I'm sure, but I'm wondering why you can't go back to taking your nightly "higher" dose only?  You were on that originally.  Of course you'll probably have to increase it now as your feeling badly now.  Maybe you would sleep better.  Drag your taper out much longer.  In one of your posts you said you only have 40 pills left.  You'll probably need more.  Can you see another doctor as your current one has delusions and thinks you can just kick your addiction in a month? I think you need more support.

 

D 

 

Modified this as my question of going back to a one time nightly dose is probably a stupid one, I'm sure there are reasons why that might now work out now. 

[[di...]]

I just wrote the post above...

 

I don't know if anybody saw my story...this is it from my intro.  No signature yet, I don't have a plan.

 

I feel mad  at myself that I even have to be here.  I have always known that these meds are NOT for long time use.  I've taken them on and off (mostly off) for at least a decade.  By that I mean that I would have an occasion (horrible divorce for example) to use them.  Only used them on an as needed basis and never ever used them on a regular basis until my health started to decline fairly rapidly a few years ago. My pills actually turned to dust in their bottle!  I never had a prescription refilled on a regular basis (2x a year) until last year.  This isn't my first rodeo with Ativan.  I took it for a few months before to get me through a rough spot.  In late fall of 2010 I blew out my knee running. I had turned to running due to my health getting bad, my job possibly being outsourced and I basically was depressed.  I was super stressed.  Anxiety was my best friend and because I still had my job, my family, and too many things to take care of I couldn't not sleep.  So I would take half of a 1mg every night for about two months.  I made it through the holidays and into the New Year.  My knee started to heel and I started to feel I was dependent on the .5 for sleep.  I googled a little.  Found some things online and was afraid I was going to become a complete mess.  I stopped taking them cold turkey.  I also lost about 10 lbs in 6 weeks afterwards.  I was a mess.  I had to teach myself how to sleep through the night again.  It was horrid.  Anxiety was my best friend again.  I made it through though.  However, I was still suffering from undiagnosed IC. I never touched another pill until six months later.  I figured, I can handle taking them now and then again.  I'd done it before.  I could do it again.  Even though I swore after I went off them the first time, I'd NEVER take them again.  On occasion I'd take a .5 once a week or so.  Fast forward to this past Feb 2012.  I received my medical diagnosis. ( as well as another one in the same month I won't even mention as it just clouds this).  I started to wonder how I'd survive.  The chronic pain was/is miserable.  I read about a lady who has similar health issues and she has a blog and stated she uses .5 Ativan nightly to sleep and has done so for years.  (In addition to another sleep aid I can't remember because I thought I was smart and would only need one!) She said in order to fight my disease and depression from it sleep is most important. So I felt like I had been given a green flag to start up again.  Plus I thought I could handle it.  Anyway...I am rambling now. 

 

So, here I am.  Googled really hard this time around.  Challis, you mentioned alternative meds.  Well, one of my doctors wanted me to take Amitriptyline in a 10mg dosage for pain to help me sleep at night.  I actually tried it.  I was a complete zombie.  I could not function.  Work was a joke.  He told to half it and it was the same for five nights.  Just the same.  He said it would get better, but I couldn't give up my life to wait until it "worked".  I am thinking about this.  I even wondered if I could jump from one to the other. 

 

I do believe this ativan had helped me for a while.  I have slept. I also believe I am building a tolerance to it.  I afraid I won't be able to function without it though.  I am afraid of not sleeping.  I am afraid of not being able to quit at this time.  Guess that is pretty much my story.

 

D

 

I am editing this as I wanted to add to this...when I take .5, because I don't use a pill spliter, sometimes it's .65, next night it's .35 if you know what I mean...I'm not consistent.  Sometimes it's actually .5 per night as I split the pill perfectly. 

D

« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 04:27:10 AM by didi76 »

 

[[Ga...]]

Didi 76,  Sorry to take so long to answer.  In my area( I live in the Willamette Valley in Oregon)  Doctors are are at a premium.  You have to wait about 3 months to get a new patient appointment with a doctor.  So going to a different doctor is not an option.  I have been in tolerance withdrawals for a couple months as the doctors kept trying other drugs to help me sleep.  None worked.  My body loved the Lorazepam and wanted MORE.  I realized that it was giving me all types of problems.  I also have huge anxiety problems.  OR at least I thought so.  I may just be the drug.  I won't know till I get off the stuff and as you probably know from reading on this site, it will be a couple months after I get off it before I even know if it is the Lorazepam or just GAD.    My doctor called me this morning.  He is concerned.  He just doesn't understand any of this.  He said that he was bringing me off by such small increments that it shouldn't be bothering me.  The pharmacist  thought the same thing, except she thought I shouldn't stop at .25. 

She thought I should drop to .125 before jumping.    I realize that everyone on this site begs me not to do this.  But honestly I don't know any other way to do it.  I am not sure if I am in withdrawal today or not.  Yesterday was such a good day, then last night about 22 hours after I took my last pill I notice the electrical feelings on my chin, arms and legs.  My eyelids twitching.  It wasn't bad when I took my .5 pill at 12:15am.  I went to sleep and I figured all was well.  I've been on .5 for nearly a week.  Then at 3:30 IT woke me up with my stomach and chest vibrating.  I told myself to calm down and I did.  I went shopping this morning and by the time I got home am in a full panic attack.  I'm trying to do other things to get my mind off of it.  Hell, this is just tolerance w/d.  Tomorrow night I drop another .125.  Cedar tells me I"ll be in Hell.  Maybe so, and maybe this is just my mind telling my body what I've been worried about.  Could be either.  All my friend, doctors, and pharmacists tell me it shouldn't bother me.  They haven't really been looking it up and it's not their body. 

 

I hope you have access to doctors that will help you  You can change to Klonipin or Valium.  Looking at what those two do to your body I didn't want to change to either.  Both sounded terrible and harder to get off of.  So here I am. I guess I've always done things the hard way.  Then again I've been listening to positive mood meditations and doctors and they say that I am just experiencing what I've been telling my mind is going to happen.  If I just tell it it's all in my mind then I won't have so much trouble.  My therapist also thinks Its all in my mind.  The doctor told me this morning that he thought I'd be off of this in a couple weeks.  We'll see. 

 

Thanks for the shout.  I wish you all the luck deciding how you want to handle this.  I don't know where you are located, but in a lot of states there are doctors that are better at understanding this.  Good Luck.  I'll keep watching you.  By the way , how did you edit this stuff?

 

 

[[aw...]]

Howdy, y'all:

 

I've been on this thread before, but not lately. Thought I was going to c/o to Valium for my taper, but I now think I'll try a very slow liquid taper directly from 6 mg/d of Ativan, so I might be around more often. Such a taper might be doable with tiny, frequent cuts--I'd even consider going to 4X day dosing, if it will eliminate the c/o to V or K. Any thoughts on this? It's my first taper, and I REALLY want it to be my last 

 

I just learned today that Kaiser probably won't prescribe me liquid Ativan. Disappointing and angrifying (they really don't care much about me, nor do they know much about benzos) but what did I expect? I have a solution to that problem, but it would be nice if they were on my side for once.

 

1-3 mg of melatonin 1-2 hours before sleep works well for me. Time of dosing relative to bedtime makes a difference.

 

Bless you all,

 

Aweigh

[[Ga...]]

Aweigh,  I use the melatonin also,  It works for me, but my doctor didn't want me to take more than.5 or 1mg.  I used to take 5mg.  IT does not stop that anxiety in sleep and I wake up clenched in a ball.  I actually put my shoulder and neck out a couple months back from it.    Another doctor told me to take Hyland's Calms.  I bought some and looked up the ingredients on the internet.  I'm not sure Passion Flower is something I should take with the Benzo.  The doc said there was such a small amount it wouldn't matter.  Think I'll ask on the drug thread if anyone has used it.    Good Luck on your tapor.  Everyone has to choose the method that they feel works for them.  I hope you get good results from your method. 

[[aw...]]

Hi, GL:

 

Thanks for the reply. The melatonin was actually recommended to my by my neurologist who is treating me for sleep disorders. He emphasized 1-3 mg, no more. I don't know why, but 2 has always worked for me. I believe it only affects the sleep cycle, no psych effects.

 

If I read your sig right, you're taking lorazepam once a day. That's likely to make you feel sick, because you run out of the drug way before your next dose is due. I feel a lot better now that I'm dosing 3 times a day instead of once.

 

Aweigh

[[Ga...]]

Ya,  I was just about worked around to 4 times a day when my doctor had a fit that I was doing more than one dose.  Told me to go back to one a day.  So,I  usually have some w/d from 10pm to midnight or sometimes earlier.  As I drop med it will get worse..  Today it has been all day and I haven't dropped any med yet.  So, am not sure what's going on.  I guess tolerance W/d.Your still on pretty high doses.  I never had more than 1mg and dropped pretty fast to the .5.  Even today when doc called he thought I'd be off this in a couple weeks.  THat may be true if I jump at .25 because  I can't stand w/d any more.  I know this is the wrong way to do it.  I'm just trapped.  My doctor isn't trying to be mean, but his is not willing to listen or check out any information.  He thinks that .125 is such a small amount that it shouldn't bother me at all  In fact reading some of the websites on Benzo withdrawal say that many people can come down easy and never have any w/d symptoms.  Some people metabolize /Ativan so slowly that they never get the interdose w/d.  Actually all of what I think is W/d may just be anxiety.  But then that is what most w/d is from ativan.  Today mine has been about the highest it's ever been.

 

Sorry to go on.  But it helps me to keep my mind off my body.  Gonna go watch TV.  Earlier I made cloth books for my twin  8 month old grandaughters that I haven't seen for 2 months.  My Grandson turs 4 in 2 weeks and I'm not sure I'll even be able to go to his birthday party.  I need to get through this for them.  I will heal.  check out the websites on u-tube for relaxation and healing.  There are some good ones.

[[aw...]]

Garden Lady:

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but I feel strongly that your anxiety is at least partly caused by dosing Ativan once a day. Look in any medical book; Google the Merck Manual online and look at the doses they recommend in the Psychiatry section. Lorazepam is almost never dosed once a day for the simple reason that it's half life is too short, around 12 h for most adults. You just run out of gas at about 16 hours, but there's still 8h till your next dose. An Rx for trouble.

 

On this particular point, your doctor is simply mistaken. Many doctors won't seriously consider input from a patient, especially if it means admitting an error. I have been in your situation and what worked for me was to control my own taper and get some tangible help from friends until I could find a physician who would listen to me. I now have one (female, of course) and so I'm not nearly as nervous as I was about my upcoming taper. Merely terrified  :'(

 

Peace,

 

Aweigh

[[Ga...]]

aweigh, when I was making the transition I had unplesant experiences.  When I took away from the night dose it was the same as dropping it for a few days.  good luck.  Tonight I am experienceing many symptoms.  I fear that cedar was right.  I haven't even dropped the dose yet. AT least the medical doctor was willing to let me tapor off.  the pdoc  told me to just cold turkey off 1mg.  Evidentally our area is not the place to get stuck on a benzo.  I tried to get into a doctor  about 60 miles away, but December was the first opening she had for new patients and my doc was not going to let me stay on the drug that long. 

 

Good luck to you.

[[aw...]]

Garden Lady,

I'm sending you a personal message. Please let me know when you receive it.

 

Thanks,

Aweigh

[[Li...]]

Hi Aweigh

 

I just came across your post and thought I'd reply because our situations are quite similar.  I too had been on a once per day dose of Ativan for almost 10 years.  4mg each night, once in a while more.  I did learn that splitting up he doses is really the way to go.  The interdose w/d sx have been terrible for years....... My neurologist and GP have thought all of my sx were MS.......... Since I've split the dose up to 4x per day... Equal doses I do have a little less sx but not a lot.  I started my taper the 1st week of Aug and may be cutting too fast.......I'm not sure. 

 

You mentioned doing a liquid taper.  I started the water titration about 4 days ago and have found it to be very simple.  The A mixes really easily with room temp water......... Im going to do a micro taper but need to hold for a bit.  I tried mixing with other liquids and have found water to be he most consistent.  I also wanted to mention that I'm on 2.5 mg liquid melatonin at bedtime.  It has helped tremendously!  Let me know if you have any questions about mixing etc....... I'm really glad you're here

 

Peace to you-

 

Litn

 

Also, Garden Lady, if you read this, I'm sorry you're still suffering so.......  I was wondering if it's possible to mail order your Rx?  I've heard you cn get an online dr to Rx a refill if you already have a pscription........ And, I still think dosing 4x /day is the way to go but I know your doc feels otherwise.

 

I hope you are finding some peace- 

 

Take care

Litn

 

 

[[aw...]]

Litn:

Thanks for the post. Yeh, we're in the same boat--sure is nice to not be taking a huge dose of A once a day. Ya know, Drs. are supposed to know how to prescribe the drugs they hand out...but don't get me started on that 

 

Yes, I'm going to start a slow liquid taper (my name for MT) directly from A as soon as my change to 3X day A dosing stabilizes, I figure 1-2 weeks. I have a strong background in pharmacy and good input from those who know from experience, so I think I'm as good to go as I'm gonna get.

 

You should know that A is absolutely not soluble in water, and so should not be tapered that way. You can make a suspension if you crush the tabs first and shake well, but that's not a solution and will give variable dosing results. Sometimes way too variable. Most people use homogenized milk; the fat dissolves the A. From what I read, it seems to work well for them. I'm going to use ethyl alcohol, possibly with propylene glycol added, because that's what the drug companies who manufacture liquid oral Ativan solutions use. Yes, doctors can prescribe these solutions, but my doctor doesn't want to and I'm way fed up arguing benzos with doctors who don't know from a GABA receptor. I'll just make the solution myself from the tablets.

 

The secret to a good taper is frequent, tiny cuts. Tiny as in 0.015 mg/day. This cannot be done by dry cutting tablets, but is easy using solutions. Rabid tapers are worse than holding at the same dose.

[[ce...]]

Garden Lady:

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but I feel strongly that your anxiety is at least partly caused by dosing Ativan once a day. Look in any medical book; Google the Merck Manual online and look at the doses they recommend in the Psychiatry section. Lorazepam is almost never dosed once a day for the simple reason that it's half life is too short, around 12 h for most adults. You just run out of gas at about 16 hours, but there's still 8h till your next dose. An Rx for trouble.

 

On this particular point, your doctor is simply mistaken. Many doctors won't seriously consider input from a patient, especially if it means admitting an error. I have been in your situation and what worked for me was to control my own taper and get some tangible help from friends until I could find a physician who would listen to me. I now have one (female, of course) and so I'm not nearly as nervous as I was about my upcoming taper. Merely terrified  :'(

 

Peace,

 

Aweigh

I completely agree. Fantastic post Aweigh! 

[[di...]]

GL...wrote a long post in response to you last night.  Was ready to post and the internet service went down for about 5 minutes  >:(and I had to call it a night so didn't rewrite.  I will make this short as I need to work.  So basically, your doctor wants you to take your .5mg at night again and doesn't want you do divide your dose as you are tapering?  I was wondering about that myself.  I am probably not in agreement with the majority here who want you to take your dose four times a day as I take my .5 only at night too. I was actually prescribed 1mg, but have NEVER taken it all.  Only ever split the pills.  I have NEVER taken it in the day time as I have to work.  I though am prescribed for a medical condition so it's a little different.  You are actually down from 1mg at night so you have come a long way.  You said that you may actually have GAD... so it's something you will have to work out with your doctor and possibly a therapist to get additional treatment for.  I guess until your off this completely you won't really know what to do about that.  Even though it sounds like your Dr seems to have hit a wall with you, I think he is still trying to do the best he knows how to do.  Your pharmacist sounds fairly knowledgeable.  I agree more with her methods.    Hope you feel better today.  Also, hoping you make it to the upcoming birthday party!

 

D

[[Ma...]]

Hi Aweigh, glad you are back and have decided not to cross over.  I'm not saying crossover is bad and a lot of people have been helped by it, but not all benzos are the same and they each bring different problems.

 

One benefit of sticking with ativan is that you feel the cuts quickly, with valium you can't be sure when its going to hit you as it is so long with the half life.  Generally they hit quick with ativan and go away quicker, while tapering.  Also, ativan does not produce as many metabolites as Valium.

 

I am still cutting pills, want to cut until I get to 5.  Then I will probably start water titration.  I know you are a stickler for getting the solution right.  The thing is even batches of pills don't always have the same exact strengths.  So you are always going to have the problem of inexactness in this inexact world.

 

I would urge you to search for Phrianon's posts.  She doesn't have a blog but she has a LOT of experience with titration, and that with many different drugs.  She says using water has worked fine for all of them.

 

I have gotten 1 mg pills finally instead of two mgs.  still inexact but more exact that trying to cut bits out of 2 mgs pills.  I've gone down .5 over the course of about a month and a half.  So no longer on 6! 

 

My doc has come a long way from wanting to put me on topomax and take me down fast.  Now he has agreed it will probably take about a year going slow.  I think if I have to take longer than that it will be ok too.

 

Still holding at 5.5.  I am convinced slower is better than fast.