NAD+ Iontophoresis For Benzo Detox (A Journal)

[[Be...]]

 

Hi Lottie and everyone else.

 

Sorry I disappeared.  I have been dealing with this darn 4mm kidney stone and it won’t pass, and I just haven’t felt like being on BB’s.  I have been to the ER 3x’s UGH.  I have an appointment on the 1st and if it hasn’t passed by then, they may have to intervene  :'.  I guess 20% don’t pass on their own.  My last one on the right side (3mm) passed w/in a few days…hmmm?  Anyway 

 

Just replied to you in one of the Valium threads. I have been dropping out for a week then popping in to check things.

 

I read through and caught up.  I am soooo happy for you and I am definitely still very interested in doing this in the future as soon as I am over this kidney stone crap.  I didn’t start my NAD+ yet, just because of what I am going through…just in case I had a bad reaction or something. I am just a little afraid.  Just as soon as this passes, I will try and if all goes well and if it works for me, I am 100% in.  I would rather suffer for a few weeks too and be done with this benzo poison leash and get on the road to recovery and get my life back.

 

I think that's a good plan. Get that out of the way, you can then decide on NAD+. I truly don't regret doing the NAD+. It's been hell, but w/d and tapering was so demoralizing. The w/d has been more intense, but my eyes is on the prize. 6 months max trumps another 2 years maybe with tapering, jumping, acute and post-acute. I am just sooooo glad this appears to be working. I seem to be on the same track/path others were. I really need to post my protocol for those wanting to try iontophoresis NAD+. Or go to the nearest NASD+ drip center knowing what they need. 

 

You are such an inspiration and I am so thankful that you shared ALL of what you have gone through!  This helps to prepare myself (if the NAD+ spray works for me) and get my mind right.  I do think if we can get our minds in the right place, we can do just about anything.  So thank you, again!

 

Marie 

 

That was part of my aim, giving the experience of trailblazing iontophoresis NAD+ so the rest of you won't go into this like I did, which was half-blind. At least you go in seeing what you are going in to.

 

Shamo mentioned mindset being important. But when you jump, it is scary, and I can see why those who did IV NAD+ waited before posting about it. They wanted to make sure. I feel fairly certain this worked the way it's supposed to. I'm in a much better place that I was a week after jumping and completing initial NAD+ treatment. I'm still sick and dealing with frustrating symptoms.

[[Be...]]

Another update. Bye-bye oatmeal with psyllium fiber. Hello cold cereal and no fiber supplement needed. Not constipated anymore. I can eat cruciferous veggies without getting bloated. Finished up the poached chicken breast meat, and ate dark meat baked over a bed of whole-grain jasmine rice. Yum! Thought I died and went to heaven.  Ate stewed lamb with potatoes and carrots today, I last ate it for Easter when I was doing the iontophoresis NAD+. Eating mozzarella cheese sticks with multi-grain crackers in the evening, eating peanut butter on whole grain bread for a snack before bedtime. Cut my Ensure down to half a bottle, I'll drink it until it's gone. Slowly adding new foods back into my diet, and assessing how I tolerate them, before adding more. I can now handle eating shrimp with a bit of garlic butter. I'm handling more fat. I'm slowly putting on weight, which I need to do.

 

Very little paresthesia at this point, when I do have it, it's after eating. Doesn't matter what I eat, had it through the end of tapering. It'll go up, and then down after a couple hours. Before, it hung around until I fell asleep. Having less acid reflux, including reflux cough. Tinnitus is down to occasional rings and chirps, I've been jamming so much to music that I hadn't paid attention. I realized one morning, hey, it's silent! It tends to pop up here and there, but doesn't stay around. Sleep is still a problem, but I had one good day, Friday night into Saturday morning, I even overslept an hour. I hope to have more days of normal sleep as I start weaning off gabapentin. Stopped the 5 mg of Baclofen. So, it's just gabapentin and Belsomra. Still having a lot of the dizzy, floaty-boaty stuff. That and what feels like 'hot flashes' are my biggest symptoms. Some days I have periods of feeling like I'm back into early acute, other days I have morning windows where I feel almost normal. Almost.

 

I still have burning and dryness in my eyes and nose, burning tongue and/or metallic taste after eating. I have all kinds of random symptoms that pop up and leave within minutes to hours. It's all very unpredictable. Things continue to change week by week. I'm miserable, but I'm hopeful. I wish stuff would just go away, and it will. In time. I'm just happy I free. Had my monthly appt with PsychNP, and told her I jumped using NAD+ as an assist. She's like, you what? I said I'm off. She then asked about NAD+, and congratulated me. No, I don't need her to prescribe anymore poison pills. I'm also phasing out of the state PROMISE program, I asked to be removed from the Peer wait list, but I still have a DCW. I'm just taking things one day at a time.

 

I can safely say I have left acute and entered post-acute. Overall, things continue to improve. I am still physically feeling pretty sick. I've got a ways to go. 

 

Still fighting Darth Benzo! I'm winning. 

[[Be...]]

Protocol time!

 

For those thinking about doing NAD+, this is my pre-treatment prep. Some came from JLeDi's post suggested by his Mayo Clinic doctor. Some from Dr Ken Starr. and from rancom1 in one of the NAD+ threads.

 

To take the week prior to treatment:

 

900 mg elemental calcium. Read the label, and look at the amount of elemental calcium, not the USP in mg, which is higher. You are taking daily for 7 days. Get a small bottle, as you won't need it after this.

 

TMG (Trimethylglycine) - 500 mg in am. A 90 count bottle should be enough.

 

Magnesium L-Threonate Two - 670 mg capsules, one in am, one in evening. I used Magtein, a patented formula. It is expensive, but you will only need 1 90 ct bottle.

 

Quercetin 475 MG - Two daily, one in morning, one in afternoon.

 

Vitamin C - 500 mg in am.

 

To take each day you receive iontophoresis or IV NAD+:

 

TMG (Trimethylglycine) - Two* 500 mg in am. A 90 count bottle should be enough.

 

Magnesium L-Threonate Two - 670 mg capsules, one in am, one in evening. I used Magtein, a patented formula. It is expensive, but you will only need 1 90 ct bottle.

 

Quercetin 475 MG - Two daily, one in morning, one in afternoon.

 

Vitamin C - 500 mg in am.

 

*note that you are increasing the TMG. You must take the am doses of everything above, before treatment.

 

 

The iontophoresis patch systems I used.

 

 

https://www.longevitycollective.com/ One kit of 6 Activa-patches and 6 sealed vials of NAD+ $550. These patches do not require saline, they contain a saline gel pad in the patch. Just open the vial, pour slowly on the pad, pull the start strip, place pad on hand and apply all at once to clean skin, press around the outer edges to seal. Do not press center of patch. Read instructions thoroughly that come with the kit. Make sure you refrigerate the vials of NAD, as soon as possible after the kit arrives.

 

I had a New Years discount code I found online, that knocked the price down to $478. These are a more intense patch, I felt more zapping from these. They run for 4 hours, and after that, residual amounts will still be absorbed, After 7 hours, they are pretty much done. I did not find them difficult to remove, I just peeled up one end, and holding my skin taut, I gently pulled up and off. Discard in the trash, keep away from kids and pets.

 

https://agelessrx.com/ Two kits with 12 patches $320 with subscription, $20 off first order. You can sign up for the quarterly subscription, and request your next kit early, if you think you will need one. I did.  These have saline vials, they are Ionto-ToGo patches, and the NAD is compounded by Belmar Pharmacy and comes in a bottle with a dropper lid. They are advertised as 400 mg, but the patches will hold 500 mg, and there is more than enough NAD solution to do multiple 500 mg doses. These take a day longer than Longevity, and they are shipped with ice packs and insulation. Refrigerate upon arrival. Squeeze 20 drops (400 mg) or 25 drops (500 mg) of NAD in the crescent shaped area. Twist open a saline vial and apply 20 or 25 drops to the round reservoir. Immediately apply the patch to clean skin all at one, press edges to seal, do not press center. Patch is activated once saline is added. This one is less intense than Activa.

 

These also run for 4 hours, residual amounts will be absorbed for up to 6 hours. Remove and discard just like Activa.

 

Note: Patches will have damp pads upon removal. This is normal. 

 

What you can expect when wearing iontophoresis patches. Some discomfort at the application site. You may feel some zaps, especially at the beginning. I got used to them after awhile, and went about my day while they worked. Some redness after removal. Either from the adhesive, or from the reservoir where the NAD+ is placed.  I didn't have issues with the adhesive at all. The Activa patches did leave some crescent marks on the skin, which faded. The Ionto-ToGo might have left faint red marks.

 

This is an IV protocol someone asked Ken Starr about on YouTube. The person wondered if it sounded right, Starr said yes that would be fine. Starr does not have you take your final dose of benzo until Day 4. You can rapidly reduce long-acting ones prior to treatment. I did. I went to 2 mg the week before, than 1 mg the first day. I was a wreck that week, which was before Easter. Felt pretty good by Easter, I did my first treatment the day before, and as you may recall, I was eating hand-crafted pierogies the whole week. And gobbling Easter Candy. Acute Hell didn't kick in until the following week.

 

800 mg

800 mg

800 mg

800 mg

1000 mg

1000 mg

1500 mg

1000 mg

800 mg

800 mg

800 mg

500 mg

500 mg

500 mg

 

They did 14 days total. Some do as little as 10, but Starr actually recommends 14 for most people, unless you are below the equivalent of 3 mg Valium, they can do as little as 10.

 

What I did. I based it on the fact that JLeDi's Mayo doc had him start with high doses, and went down to lower.

 

1400 mg

1400 mg

1000 mg

1000 mg

1000 mg

1000 mg

800 mg

800 mg

800 mg

800 mg

500 mg

500 mg

 

For the 1400 mg (1.4 g) I used one Activa patch with 1000 mg NAD+  and one Iont-ToGo for 400 mg. You are wearing two patches. For the 800, I used two Ionto-ToGo patches with 400 mg each. Again, you are wearing two patches. This gives you 12 treatments. I used 20 drops for 400 mg, I used 25 drops for 500 mg. I saved the remainder solution for the next batch of patches. You can apply them to abdomen (my preferred location), upper arm (secondary when I was doing two patches at once), upper thigh, directly above the hip or buttock. I found abdomen easiest. If you apply them to the thigh, you have to clip, not shave, any hair. I just alternated sides of my lower abdomen, and upper arms.

 

I then ordered another quarterly kit early. The CS at Ageless Rx is really great, there is a messaging system on the website to communicate with staff, and you get an email notification when they reply.

 

After almost 2 weeks, I did a follow-up  of three 500 mg doses. 25 drops of NAD+. I used up the remainder of the original bottle, before using the new one.  After another 2 weeks, I repeated this. I did another three days with 500 mg each just before last weekend. I have 3 patches left that I plan on using after I finish tapering the gabapentin. You may not need two full kits from AgelessRx each time. You might do well with a set of two kits to start, and one kit for follow=up treatments, especially if you are jumping from under 2 mg. I think the subsequent treatments have helped, especially the initial two. The last didn't make as much of an impact, though they replenished my NAD. I do think three more treatments after dropping gabapentin will help with further healing.  Between all the patch treatments, I used the nasal spray, initially 50 mg a day, but after the second follow-up, I dropped to just 25 mg in the morning. I stopped it completely now. I'm saving the remainder for after I jump from gabapentin. 

 

Another important note: You won't sleep as well on the days you use the patches. You won't sleep super well in acute w/d either. You will be more relaxed and still. I'm now in Post-Acute w/d, and my sleep is getting better. I get nights I sleep 7 hours, got 8 hours one day.

 

And finally.... I ate a PBJ sammie last night!!!!!!!  :D And it was soooooo gooood!  Seedless raspberry preserves with natural-style peanut butter on whole grain bread.

 

I will be taking another break from here. I find coming here makes me worse, I do better staying away. I think that's why people step away after for a bit. They need to actually stay away from here to recover. I did what I needed to do, what I set out to do. But I need time away, as I immerse myself in life, living, recovering. I'm transitioning out of the state PROMISE program, I will probably exit by the end of June. I already am off the Peer support wait list, at my request. I only have a DCW, and she only works 1 day a week now, as my hours have been cut back. I'm doing more, eating better, sleeping better, jamming to rock music all, day, long. Cleaning out old food from cupboards, freezers, refrigerator. I am no where near even 75% better. I would say maybe 50% many days, with acute feelings some days. Small windows in the morning hours, which is when I'm most productive. But I'm making progress, one day, one week, one month, at a time.

[[Co...]]

Good for you, Benzolottie. The patches seem such a nice option for those who have them available as it also makes you functional during. I think I might be experiencing more burning skin when using the nasal spray so I don't think NAD is an option for me anymore. Enjoy your sandwishes!

[[Be...]]

I've been wanting to get back here and do an update. I'm now 5 months post-jump, and 4 months post-acute. I'm completely off gabapentin, weaned off by dropping 100 mg a month, like many others did. I always felt crappier than usual after a drop. It would resolve within a couple weeks. Now I'm off completely, had a week of discontinuation syndrome. Still feeling the effects of that, but not nearly as bad as benzo's were.

And speaking of benzo's, I've had some lingering symptoms. Burning in my face, indigestion/acid reflux, scalp tension and back-of-the-head-skin-crawling sensation, restlessness, back spasms, internal vibrations, sleep issues, stuff that come-and-goes. Overall I continue to improve. Headaches appear to have finally gone away. Tinnitus is mostly down, not even perceptible unless it's real quiet here. I'm having less of the other symptoms too. I'm immersing myself more into normalcy; living, functioning, coping. 

I put off the work my fixer-upper house needed for years, a few things couldn't wait any longer to be addressed. Had a contractor out here fixing some leaking and drainage issues, been buying stuff from Wayfair (Love their Closeout and Open-box return sections), doing some retail therapy. It looked like Christmas outside my door with all the packages coming from them. Scored two awesome Open-box deals. One an Italian-style hand-carved half-moon console table with rose marble inset in the top and on the lower shelf. It came with two left legs and no right. I flipped the extra left around and used wood screws to attach it. Table also had cosmetic damage, scratches and scuffs due to loose hardware floating in the box. The other is a Chinese lacquer cabinet with Chinese ladies made of hand-carved and painted mother-of-pearl pieces glued on.  It has stress cracks in the upper mortise and tenon corner joints, and two corners slightly dinged and some scuffing along the front top edge. There's also a few tiny chips in the finish. Both pieces are solid wood, and were a great deal. I saved a significant amount of money on both. The cabinet will grace the end of my hallway, sandwiched between the two larger bedroom entrances. The console table is in the area right outside the kitchen, but before the hallway. 

I have flooring coming from Wayfair this week, click-and-lock stone-look vinyl plank. It's going in the kitchen and bathroom. It looks like travertine tiles. Just needing/wanting to get stuff done in the house. I was not able to do any of this stuff while tapering, I really couldn't function at this level. Now I can do so much more, but I'm still not fully there yet. I'd put myself at around 75% healed, just these few lingering things to lessen, and eventually fade away. 

I have been doing NAD+ weekly with the remaining patches and solution. Still have a fair amount of solution, and no more patches (I had three remaining). Found some on eBay, selling cheap because the date is about to expire on the box. $30 for a box of 6 Ionto ones, same as the ones from AgelessRx. Apparently the FDA is letting them be sold OTC now. Decided to keep doing them weekly, until the solution is done. Just 400 mg ones now. Some symptoms got worse after stopping gabapentin (sleeeeeepppp), and NAD+ does help with that too. Just need to keep knocking that glutamate excitotoxicity down. Back to dealing with getting my house finished and decorated.

 

[[da...]]

I finished 25 IV treatments on June 14 2023 over a  period of t weeks. It didn’t work at all, they cold turkey me and told me that my withdrawals will be minimal, it was and still is now hell on earth. I was thinking of doing the patches for e week or 2 doing exact same protocol as yours. When I was doing the IV’s they were giving me glutathione daily to help detox the liver because the NAD supposed to be heavy on the liver. What do you guys think? I have to try something, my depression and anxiety is so bad that Iam not getting out of bed. Next week I will try Ketamine and than if no help i want to do the patches. Let me know your opinion, i can not even think straight.

[[da...]]

Over a period of 5 weeks, sorry.

[[Be...]]

What were you taking, and what dose were you on when you had NAD+? I've never heard of anybody having 25 IV's over 5 weeks. Most do 10 to 14 over two weeks. What were the IV doses? A number of people who did MAD+ for detox, elected to NOT get the glutathione. It actually caused problems for a few, and they discontinued it. ramcon1 said that he would avoid all the other stuff typically used for anti-aging, and go for straight NAD+. Though only things you should take is TMG and Quercetin and/or Vit C. The former to provide methyl donors as the liver can only make so many, the latter to address the high histamine response.  

Also, don't know why they said w/d's would be minimal. NFN had that happen to her, and it was hell after, took a month before she saw signs of it working. Mine was intense those first two weeks, which you'll see reading back when I posted in April and May. 

I am not having anxiety or depression at all, but I was mistakenly prescribed benzo's for a condition I never had. Mentally, I'm doing pretty good. Just having physical and some cognitive stuff still. It's frustrating at times. Today, I kept dozing off during the day, Just not motivated to do anything. I have been pushing myself a bit, probably need to rest. 

Can't comment on ketamine, other than that others tried it, but I can't recall anybody saying it worked.  

[[da...]]

Every day of treatment they gave me 1400mg of NAD+ with amino acids, Myer’s coctail and i think every other day gluthatione. I was there for 25 treatments because they thouth that I need more time and NAD to response, it did not work at all. Now I know they lied about the withdrawals being minimal just to get a client. Now I want to try pure NAD and do the patches , i can’t decide if I should start with 1000 + mg or just use 800mg  for 6 days and see what will happen. Any advice? Thanks for reply.

[[Be...]]

Quote

What were you taking, and what dose were you on when you had NAD+?

What was the benzo you were taking? What was the last dose you were on prior to stopping with NAD+? A lot of how you do after, depends on what you jumped from. I can't advise you without knowing about your benzo use. 

Also, many skipped the amino acids and vitamins cocktail as well. Those are for anti-aging/rejuvenation  treatment, and do nothing for benzo w/d.

Are you on other meds? Do you have any other medical issues going on? Asking because some people just aren't candidates for NAD+. 

[[da...]]

I was on Valium, 40mg daily and they cold turkey me saying that these IV’s will make things much easier. They also wantbyou to stop everything else if it comes to psych meds. I was also on 200mg of trazedone for sleep. I had to come back to the trazedone for sleep and take Vistaril and clonodine to ease up my huge anxiety but it gives me just a tiny amount of relief. Before the treatment I was in tolerance to the point that even much bigger doses of Valium did not work on me. I took it for 2 years where the first 1.5 years i took it on weekends only, I do not have any medical problems. Thanks.

[[Be...]]

Where did you go that offered you NAD+ as a detox off such a whopping huge amount of Valium? You are in a bad case of acute, you essentially were c/t'd off an incredibly high dose of a benzo. NAD+ will not fix things, that isn't the way it works. Did you research NAD+ prior to doing the detox? Or did the clinic sell you on a premise that isn't realistic? What led you to try NAD+? If you read through my thread, you'll note that Dr Ken Starr does not do NAD+ as a detox to jump off benzos, until you are at the equivalent of 5 mg or lower. Starr says the lower the better, he prefers getting below 3 mg. I was at 2.75 mg. Starr does offer a step-down program, where one can go in for treatment to assist them in tapering in steps. One person here did that, and was dropping 1 mg a month, until he finally jumped. He'd go to Starr's clinic (Starr actually was his benzo taper doctor), have several IV's over several days, in which he cut his dose by 1 mg each time. I believe it took him 5 or 6 months to finally jump off once he was at 3 mg. 

 

NFN was at the equivalent of 15 mg of diazepam when she did NAD+. Shamo was at 10 mg. Both had a really rough acute, because of the higher doses they were on. Shamo was also on pregabalin, and had to cut his dose in half, because it interfered with the NAD+. He went back for NAD+ to jump ff the remaining pregabalin. NFN said in hindsight that it wasn't the best idea to jump from her dose of Ativan, she agreed with Ken Starr's recommendations. Fighterk was on the same dose as I was, 2.75 mg, and did well. JLeDi was on 1.5 mg, and had the best outcome, acute and post-acute were not too bad. The lower you are, the better the outcome. I don't know of anyone who did a c/t of 40 mg Valium. I'm baffled that someone would offer this to a person on such a huge dose, as a detox. You were sold a lie. No wonder you are doing so poorly. NAD+ doesn't work that way. Something NFN stressed, and I echo that, is to thoroughly do your research. It took me many months before I decided to take the plunge. 

 

I honestly don't know if further NAD+, whether patches or IV, will help or not. You might get a temporary reduction in symptoms, but one you stop the NAD+, they are going to return to acute level. It's been so far out since you had NAD+, and were c/t'd off the Valium. I know that NAD+ can help someone who jumped off a much lower dose, and it's been less than a month since they jumped. I don't think it's going to offer much benefit at this point, it doesn't help those in post-acute or protracted w/d, or those in acute more than a month. You are still in acute, but are well over the 1 month cut-off. NAD+ has limited use, and it's meant to be an assist.

 

I found this on ketamine, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356742210_Ketamine_A_Potential_Adjunct_for_Severe_Benzodiazepine_Withdrawal I don't know of anybody having success with it, but many who tried it were in post-acute or protracted w/d.  It might help with acute, it might not. I can't advise you on what to do, it's way beyond my experience and knowledge of NAD+. You should research ketamine, and get feedback from others that did it, before trying it. I've seen people throw their money away, going to Coleman Institute, and ending up in no better condition, that before they went. Many here who went through a c/t detox, will tell you to wait it out, and learn to figure things out. I've seen people chase after treatments, throwing money away, and ending up no better than if they'd waited. It's your money, and it's your choice to try alternatives. Last resort is reinstating, waiting until you are stable, and doing a sensible taper. If you go that route, the recommendation is to not reinstate at the original dose, but at the lowest dose one can become stable at. You've got a lot to think about, post threads, ask questions. There are many c/t people here that can advise and answer questions. C/t detoxes off high doses are never a good idea.  

 

I just know I can't offer you much. I jumped off of 2.75 mg of diazepam using NAD+ as an assist, and had a pretty intense acute from that relatively small dose. Can't imagine how intense it would be stopping 40 mg! I'm going through a bad wave right now, and it's affecting me quite a bit. I think the small NAD+ weekly doses are helping, in that they are replenishing the NAD+ levels, and keeping the healing process going. But they aren't knocking down symptoms as much as they did initially. I hope you can figure things out, and find a solution. I just don't know what that is. 

[[Be...]]

My anniversary of my last dose was Tuesday. I'm in month 5 of post-acute. Feeling like utter crap. Mostly burning in my face after eating, plus indigestion. And Toxic Naps. But my sleep at night has been pretty bleh. Most who did NAD+ recovered in month 5. Some say it gets worse at the end before recovering. It's like the last hurdle getting through the final big wave. Or something like that. Been feeling pretty miserable, but making plans to get more work done on my house. I have flooring to be installed, and it looks like a friend's grandson might be doing that, with help from her husband. 

 

Even though I'm still miserable (this wave just lingers), I realize I'm doing so much I couldn't do as little as several months ago. I can make decisions, I can make limited plans for the future, I can do so much more than I could before I used NAD+ to jump. It's been a very rough and bumpy road. and I've gotten stuck in potholes at times. But I keep traveling this long and lonely highway until I reach my destination. I think I'm close to arriving. I sure hope so.  

[[Ha...]]

Hope so too @[Be...]

[[Sw...]]

@[Be...] I plan to do a week or two of high dose IV NAD+ Once I have tapered off. 
 

I see you mention preparing for NAD, can you explain what you’ve researched on prepping for NAD infusions?

[[Li...]]

@[Be...] I am so glad that you have been sharing your story with the NAD.  I am new to this forum and I have been trying to do a lot of reading up on NAD to possibly use myself.  I am currently on 2 mg of valium and have been considering the patches.  I did order the nasal spray to see how my body responds to the NAD.  I have been dosing down for 4 years now.  I started on 8 mg of klonopin a day, once I was at 1 mg of klonopin we switched to 30 mgs of valium.  I have been dosing do from there.  I have about every w/d symptom you can think of (almost) and just currently taking the 2 mg of Valium.  My doctor currently has me on Wellbutrin for depression, gabapentin to help with w/d (300 mg/day), and a low does of Remeron to sleep.  If you have any thoughts of suggestions I would be happy to hear them.  

[[Be...]]

On 13/10/2023 at 20:37, [[S...] said:

@[Be...] I plan to do a week or two of high dose IV NAD+ Once I have tapered off. 
 

I see you mention preparing for NAD, can you explain what you’ve researched on prepping for NAD infusions?

I pretty much covered it in this post here.  It was a combination of things from Dr Starr, BB member ramcon1 (he's got an MIT education) and JLedi's Mayo Clinic doctor (who are fairly knowledgeable on benzos).   

If you are choosing to do IV NAD+ to assist you after tapering off, you should have a pretty good outcome. I don't think you'd need two weeks. My suggestion is that you do 10 days high dose. See how things go with acute, and after a few weeks, go back for 4 days of 400 or 500 mg. doses. I really found that helpful. Shamo was one of the prior IV NAD+ people, and he went back 3 weeks later for a few days of more. JLeDi did another few days about a month after the initial. A lot of acute is the glutamate excitotoxicity, repeat NAD+ knocks it down.   

[[Be...]]

23 hours ago, [[L...] said:

@[Be...] I am so glad that you have been sharing your story with the NAD.  I am new to this forum and I have been trying to do a lot of reading up on NAD to possibly use myself.  I am currently on 2 mg of valium and have been considering the patches.  I did order the nasal spray to see how my body responds to the NAD.  I have been dosing down for 4 years now.  I started on 8 mg of klonopin a day, once I was at 1 mg of klonopin we switched to 30 mgs of valium.  I have been dosing do from there.  I have about every w/d symptom you can think of (almost) and just currently taking the 2 mg of Valium.  My doctor currently has me on Wellbutrin for depression, gabapentin to help with w/d (300 mg/day), and a low does of Remeron to sleep.  If you have any thoughts of suggestions I would be happy to hear them.  

Have a few questions for you. When do you take the gabapentin? Is it once a day, or 3 100 mg doses spread out throughout the day? What is the "low dose" of Remeron you take? 

Gabapentin can interfere with NAD+ working, but 300 mg a day is not likely to be a problem., It wasn't for me. I started tapering off that by 100 mg a month after I entered the post-acute phase. I've been off for a couple months now. 

My only experience with Remeron, is that I tried it and didn't care for the effect it had on me. I developed restless legs with it, which is a common side effect, because it hits Dopamine receptors. I don't think that would interfere with NAD+, but wouldn't swear it doesn't. It gets tricky when there are other meds involved.  Dr Kenn Starr is one of the few really knowledgeable people on this, who possibly knows the answer.

If you use AgelessRX, ask the provider you have your telehealth visit with about that. They are going to ask for any meds you are taking, so they can advise you if any would interfere with NAD+. Most don't. Their providers are aware that people are purchasing NAD+ iontophoresis patch systems for drug detox. Let them know upfront that this is the reason for you using these. Make use of the telehealth, and ask questions.  If it's an NP or PA you see, they have access to an MD and/or DO to answer things they can't. I asked a lot of questions when I had my appt with the NP.   

[[Li...]]

@[Be...] I am currently taking 7.5 mgs of Remeron and it seems to be working well for me so far.  I take one 300 mg cap of gabapentin at night before I go to bed and I take my Valium at night before bed too at 2 mg. I am so ready to get this benzo mess behind me.  It would be nice to step off.  But even a great reduction of symptoms would help a lot. 

[[Be...]]

On 17/10/2023 at 14:19, [[L...] said:

@[Be...] I am currently taking 7.5 mgs of Remeron and it seems to be working well for me so far.  I take one 300 mg cap of gabapentin at night before I go to bed and I take my Valium at night before bed too at 2 mg. I am so ready to get this benzo mess behind me.  It would be nice to step off.  But even a great reduction of symptoms would help a lot. 

That's a fairly low dose of Remeron. I wouldn't think that would be an issue. Plus, NAD+ really affects sleep. During acute you're going to need sleep meds.  I was using Baclofen for about 6 weeks. 

I wanted off the benzo merry-go-round too. Acute was more intense than I anticipated, but I don't regret doing NAD+. Crazy symptoms that I didn't really experience much of during tapering. I just fought through the first two weeks, started improving, pushed through the rest of that first month. Overall, I have gradually improved. If you got it in you to get through those first 4 weeks, you'll be over the worst of it. That was the hardest part. Shorter and more intense vs longer and drawn out. 

 

[[Li...]]

@[Be...] My body is weird when it comes to sleep meds and stuff.  Remeron is the 4th med my dr has tried.  They help me for a week or 2 then they have the opposite effect on me.  I actually stopped taking the Remeron this past weekend for this very reason... and the fact that it made me want to eat everything.    I am thinking about doing the patches over Christmas break.  I work for a university and we are off about 3 weeks.  

[[Be...]]

On 23/10/2023 at 09:01, [[L...] said:

@[Be...] My body is weird when it comes to sleep meds and stuff.  Remeron is the 4th med my dr has tried.  They help me for a week or 2 then they have the opposite effect on me.  I actually stopped taking the Remeron this past weekend for this very reason... and the fact that it made me want to eat everything.    I am thinking about doing the patches over Christmas break.  I work for a university and we are off about 3 weeks.  

Gabapentin consistently helped until I got lower, then I began using Belsomra too. Some here don't like Belsomra and the related Dayvigo because of sleep paralysis and/or hypnagogic hallucinations. I've had neither. A couple days a week I take Hydroxyzine. I sleep better on those nights. I was sleeping better during early post-acute w/d, but now I'm back to struggling. Took Baclofen during acute. Still had some here, so lately I'm resorting to it and alternating between it and hydroxyzine. I have Remeron here, I might try it a couple nights a week and hope that with spare use I won't have restless legs. I just don't want to take it regularly. I have the 15 mg caplets which can be split in half. When I took Remeron in the past, the first couple nights were good. Then the restless legs kept me awake. I also don't want to get dependent on it, because of discontinuation issues. Bleh. 

 

Do the patches the week before break. You'll feel pretty good. It's not until day 10 that you start feeling the effects of Valium exiting your system. Acute will be two weeks of hell, starts getting better by week three, by the end of week four you should be moving into post-acute. You aren't going to want to be working those first 2 - 3 weeks. It is super tempting to reinstate, you just have to fight your way through it. I didn't leave my house. A friend took my list and got groceries for me. My state-provided DCW was seeing me twice a week, and helping out extra then. I had symptoms I rarely had during taper. It was hell. 

 

[[Li...]]

7 hours ago, [[B...] said:

Gabapentin consistently helped until I got lower, then I began using Belsomra too. Some here don't like Belsomra and the related Dayvigo because of sleep paralysis and/or hypnagogic hallucinations. I've had neither. A couple days a week I take Hydroxyzine. I sleep better on those nights. I was sleeping better during early post-acute w/d, but now I'm back to struggling. Took Baclofen during acute. Still had some here, so lately I'm resorting to it and alternating between it and hydroxyzine. I have Remeron here, I might try it a couple nights a week and hope that with spare use I won't have restless legs. I just don't want to take it regularly. I have the 15 mg caplets which can be split in half. When I took Remeron in the past, the first couple nights were good. Then the restless legs kept me awake. I also don't want to get dependent on it, because of discontinuation issues. Bleh. 

Do the patches the week before break. You'll feel pretty good. It's not until day 10 that you start feeling the effects of Valium exiting your system. Acute will be two weeks of hell, starts getting better by week three, by the end of week four you should be moving into post-acute. You aren't going to want to be working those first 2 - 3 weeks. It is super tempting to reinstate, you just have to fight your way through it. I didn't leave my house. A friend took my list and got groceries for me. My state-provided DCW was seeing me twice a week, and helping out extra then. I had symptoms I rarely had during taper. It was hell. 

@[Be...] I have tried Belsomra and at first it worked well.  I have been on several but it only works for me for a week or two then they start keeping me awake.  I actually just stop taking it a couple of days ago.  No need to take something that doesn't work.  And I didn't want to get dependent on it either.

I believe I have told you in a previous conversation that I went back up from 0.8 mg to 2 mg.  I have just a very small relief of symptoms.  Do you think I should try to ease myself back into my lower dose before I do the patches? 

Lisa

[[Be...]]

On 25/10/2023 at 08:37, [[L...] said:

@[Be...] I have tried Belsomra and at first it worked well.  I have been on several but it only works for me for a week or two then they start keeping me awake.  I actually just stop taking it a couple of days ago.  No need to take something that doesn't work.  And I didn't want to get dependent on it either.

I believe I have told you in a previous conversation that I went back up from 0.8 mg to 2 mg.  I have just a very small relief of symptoms.  Do you think I should try to ease myself back into my lower dose before I do the patches? 

Lisa

 

Belsomra doesn't cause dependency. My former PsychNP prescribed it just for that reason. I was alternating it with Hydroxyzine, but I'm back to daily use again, as my sleep went to crap again. It doesn't alter anything in the brain, doesn't mess anything up. Like any OTC sleep med (which are mostly old H1 antihistamines), you might have a few days after discontinuation where your body has to adjust to sleeping without sedating meds. But there's no tapering or anything like that. It's not a super effective sleep med either. Some people get nothing out of it. Some meds can initially work, until they don't. Stacking and rotating is something many BBs have had to figure out. There was member named Andros on here who tapered off zopiclone. He was quite a master of the stacking and rotating protocol. He finally narrowed down his sleep aids to the more effective herbs and OTC meds, and he experimented to find the right combo for him, As he recovered, he found he needed less of them, and was gaining more natural sleep. He finally was averaging a full night of restful sleep of about 6 to 7 hours, and no longer relying on supplements or OTC meds. He has since left BB.  

 

I guess the question to ask is, what led to you going back up? Were you tapering too fast or cutting too much and it caught up with you? Did you develop symptoms you found intolerable and you updosed in order to get more stable? Are you feeling relatively stable now? Did the updose help? Ideally, it's best to get as low as you can tapering. Dr Ken Starr says realistically at or below the equivalent of 5 mg diazepam. He prefers 3 mg. At 2 you are well within his recommendation. He's probably one of the most knowledgeable doctors out there on NAD+ for detoxing off of benzos. He has a bridge program that allows one to gradually step down using NAD+. So you could theoretically use NAD+ to taper off by the mg. over a course of a few months. Or you could do what I an others did, and use it to jump all at once. The question that only you can answer, is can you push through the really intense acute that you'll face if you jump now? And trust me, it's intense. I  had stuff I rarely or never had during tapering. If you don't think you can handle that, stepping down gradually might be a better option. One of Starr's patients was able to gradually step off by a mg at a time, during his taper, using NAD+ IV's. He did fairly well with acute and post-acute, as he jumped at 1 mg. Benzoito used daily SubQ injections of NAD+ to assist with his taper. He continued weekly injections during post-acute. At 1.5 mg diazepam, JLeDi was one of the few to use NAD+ to jump at a much lower dose. He had a much milder acute at that dose. So, the lower the dose when you jump, the less intense acute is likely to be. Acute lasts from 4 to 6 weeks for most who do NAD+. 

[[Be...]]

Well, I'm supposed to be nearing the end of most of this process. Most who did NAD+ recovered by 90 - 95% by the end of Month 5 post-acute. I'd say I'm at about 80 - 85% now. Sleep had been improving, but continues to be an issue since starting Month 5. I'm almost back to eating a normal diet. Food isn't as much of a trigger as it was. And I can drink plain water between meals and not have that bother me. Still some facial stinging and burning. Very sleepy during the day, having toxic naps. I finished up my weekly NAD+ iontophoresis last weekend. Had enough solution left to do a 500 mg patch. Was hoping to possibly be mostly recovered by Halloween, but still not there yet. Had to put the brakes on getting things done around the house, just not able to handle things at the moment. Hope to get flooring replaced in at least the kitchen and bathroom by the end of the year. I can spend next year doing the bedrooms. I have flooring for the one bedroom I use as a craft & hobby room. Wayfair open box to the rescue. That room and the other tiny bedroom in the front, are getting vinyl tiles. The master bedroom where I sleep will get the same flooring that the LR and hallways have. That usually shows up locally around February-March of the year on sale. All the bedrooms will get finished early-mid next year. I would have had this all done years ago if not for Klonopin. 

Some may remember me mentioning a potential lawsuit against the doctor who unnecessarily prescribed benzos for a condition I never had. I had a snafu, as the medical practice first said they had no record of me ever being a patient there, then said they can't provide records because they can't find anything. I filed a HIPAA complaint back then, and I finally got a phone call from a civil rights investigator. Ended up talking with this person for about an hour. I had to forward and copy communications I had with the Medical practice. I did ask about this possibly being a DEA violation, and was advised I should file a separate complaint with them. The practice has 30 days to turn over my records from this doctor. The investigator wondered why they didn't do the one thing they should have done from the get-go, ask the doctor what she did with my records. Well, the investigator is going to ask! As far as lawsuits,\

it's too late for malpractice. I had a consultation with the  brain-injury firm, who said that I absolutely unequivocally had a case, but a) I need to obtain my records from the doctor's office, and b) they were so busy and backed up, couldn't take my case, but referred me to an attorney in the area. That attorney was prepared to take the case, but everything went into limbo as I fought to get my records. HHS said that they are going to look for a pattern with the provider, if there's more than 12 patients, they will sue on our behalf for violating our civil rights. Otherwise, I'm on my own to file my own civil rights case. A decision against them by the HHS civil right division, would help my case. So there still might be a lawsuit, just not the one originally being considered. Right now I am focused on healing and recovery. It'll take up to 3 months for a decision to be made by HHS. It's been about 1 1/2 years since I first inquired. I can wait while the feds sort this mess out. I have a strong feeling that if the feds don't sue, and I hire a lawyer and file instead, that there will be an offer to settle out of court, should HHS civil rights staff find the medical provider denied me my rights to my records. Right now it's just more sitting back and waiting. So there might be a lawsuit after all, just not what was originally intended.  

A little more than a week until my 7 month anniversary of jumping from 2.75 mg. of diazepam. See how I feel by then.