The Long Hold Support Group

[[Pa...]]

 

I am very interested in the “frog medicine” is there a link?

 

Marie

 

She provides a link to practitioners in her success story.  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=241562.0

[[Di...]]

Miyu, Sufferingsixty and Cantfly...I have read through alot of your old posts searching for help with long tapers.  Congratulations Miyu!  SS and Cant wishing you success soon.  I am stalled right now praying for better windows so I can continue on.  Hugs!

[[se...]]

Dianedeedee,

 

I know the feeling, I feel like this taper is never ending.  I am just under .23 and held last week.  I guess exercising patience is very difficult.

 

Hang in there, you will improve and move forward.

 

Hugs..

[[Ca...]]

Thanks Everyone..

Ill drop back, -having a “splat” day..

-and lost my last two posts, so not sure this will send either.. -rural internet..

 

[[St...]]

Good morning LHSG hoping everyone has a better day.

Awe what has happened did l fall asleep and waken up in 2018 🥴😉.l am delighted to see the old guard posting.I want to say you have all been missed and your experience is priceless.

  Miyu l really hope you do come back and give us more of an update.l posted to you on your success post and l am delighted to hear you are moving forward.l can't say l would have done what you did however it got you where you needed to be and that is the main thing.l am doing ok can't complain am off the diazepam and getting on with my life as permitted restrictions allowing.l am not on very much so hopefully when l pop in again you will have posted.love you.X

  Morning SS and Can't well l have spoken to you so l will just add woohoo 🎊🥳🎉 great to see you here.love you.X

  Morning twiny how's you?The kids back to normal yet?Try not to panic honey there a lot of viruses doing the rounds at the moment.l am doing ok just similar to any cut plenty of experience having done long holds so nothing l can't handle.l will be back whenever.love you my lST X

Morning Val,Troch, Final (always great to hear how you are getting on you held your nerve and you did what was right for you 💗)and Gild thank you for the good wishes l know the journey isn't over yet however we will get there.Just follow your instincts and remember listen to your body.If you taper yourself into hell stop tapering.l know we become totally obsessed with tapering however you must fight your thinking.Patience and acceptance are the two things that will you through this.

  To all here please remember this is unpleasant and really does feel impossible however you will get through this.l would also like to say don't spend all your time here as it can be terrifying there are a lot of horror stories so step away and try to live in the real world.

Love you all.X

[[be...]]

Happy Easter Everyone..!!

 

-How many of the old gang are still here..?? I see Trishie and Stut... -and others from around the boards...

 

Hey spy! Happy Easter to you! I hope it was a good one for you. Mine not so good. My little grandson's we're here and they both looked sick so long story short they were tested for Covid today and we're waiting for the results. I'm extremely upset and not coping well atm.

 

I see lots of new faces around here not many of the old crew anymore. I'd like to pop on more if I could find the time. Miss my buddies a lot!

 

How's everything with you? I hope life has been treating you well. I posted to you on your blog not that long ago just say hi and check up on you

 

You take care my friend! I'll be climbing down the tree from time to time and dropping by to see ya. 🐨

 

Stay cool spy🕵️‍♂️

Trishy, 🐨♥️

Ill catch u up.. -just about to head out to a dr, and hope I can get my car/submarine through the creek.. -tis a tad wet here atm..

 

Hope its just a normal “sick”, and not bad..

 

 

Hello hello!

Miyu here .... I got a PM from Barbara Ave, I haven’t been  on BB in probably nearly 1-1/2years… I’m on my phone right now so I really can’t see much of anything it’s all so tiny,  but I’m going to come back in the next few days and write and see how everybody’s doing

 

Took my last dose of Valium  in January 2020, having been healed in six months by Kambô  frog medicine

I wrote it in my success story back then too I think

 

I’m doing really well, almost back to normal apart from some restless legs and sleep issues, but I’m happy and feel pretty good most of the time

 

It Really can and does happen !!

 

Sending lots and lots of love to the old gang, and to the new ones here to who I don’t know. Hang in there -our bodies are amazing and really do heal as we get off these dreadful drugs

 

Miyu  :smitten: :smitten:

 

Miyu!

How great to see you writing here, and to hear that it was the frog medicine that did it.

 

I continue to inch down -- but this is inspiring and I'll look up your success story.

I have recently come back here as well after bing off for a while.

Just trudging along.....

:smitten:

Wow..!! Miyu and SS, both in one day..!! The Gods smile on us..

 

Glad Barb got hold of you Miyu, much better your words than my interpretations and guesses.. 

Not to mention that hearing you are doing so well after such a hard discontinuation s golden..!!

 

SS, Im still trudging too.. -Some ups and downs, 14 months of no tapering progress (a long hold I guess), BUT under it all my body has been catching up, esp. the dreaded GI issues that have forever set my (slow) pace.. Some cracks in the depressive fatigue and motivation issues seem to be widening too.. Just coming out of a terrible month where some other stuff came up health wise, but with it came some clues to keep hope alive..

Step by step, as we do..

So good to see your post Miyu, and happy you are doing so well. And great to have some of our wonderful group back here posting. Love you all The 🐢.

💖 :smitten: 💖 😷

[[Su...]]

Miyu, Sufferingsixty and Cantfly...I have read through alot of your old posts searching for help with long tapers.  Congratulations Miyu!  SS and Cant wishing you success soon.  I am stalled right now praying for better windows so I can continue on.  Hugs!

Hi there DianeDD,

Yes for those of us that have uber sensitive systems this is a long drawn out thing. But reading about others who have managed to the end point sure is encouraging...

I know that for me without the Valium I have on board I would not be able to taper at all.  My taper number, as in percentage of mg. daily is insane!  And on I go.

Wishing the best in everything as you continue this strange journey we find ourselves on.

SS

[[Di...]]

Dianedeedee,

 

I know the feeling, I feel like this taper is never ending.  I am just under .23 and held last week.  I guess exercising patience is very difficult.

 

Hang in there, you will improve and move forward.

 

Hugs..

 

Seasalt so glad you are under .23mg.  I've been having a lot if life stressors but also some good windows in the evening...so thankful for those windows.  Hope you feel better soon. 

[[Tr...]]

Hello everyone!

How wonderful to see some great people come back and post! SS!! So great to see you post here again. I believe you and I are still battling the xanax😏.  Oh well we will defeat the benzo monster one day. 💪

 

Miyu, How fantastic that you've been off since January 2020! Congratulations to you as we all know how difficult a journey tapering a benzo is! Good luck in whatever comes next for you! I wish you bright benzo free days ahead!

 

Can't, I'll catch up with you soon! I still need to read your blog my favorite spy but finding the time is another story as this little one keeps me busier than I'd like to be. I do love him too pieces though. Hope all is well! 🐨♥️

 

Stut my twin miss you terribly! So great to see you post! I'm doing ok hanging in there and the baby is back to being his healthy self! 🙏😍 So glad you didn't leave me😳 I thought I would have to hop a boat and cross the pond to find you 😌! Lol!! Love you twinny! ♥️♥️

 

Mary girl where are you? I hope to hear from you soon and I certainly hope everything is alright with you. Thinking of you girlfriend🙏♥️♥️

 

A shout-out to the rest of the group! Hope everyone is hanging in there. Thinking of you all! Keep up the good fight!

 

Back when I can be!

Love to all,

Trishy♥️

[[ho...]]

Dianedeedee - I am so glad to see you are having some good windows!  Yay 

 

Marie

[[ho...]]

 

I am very interested in the “frog medicine” is there a link?

 

Marie

 

She provides a link to practitioners in her success story.  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=241562.0

 

Thank you for this!

 

Marie

[[NJ...]]

So since people are posting who haven't been around in a while are posting, I will post too!

 

I am planning to resume my taper in the fall after my youngest goes to college. He is finally doing well after being sick for nearly two and a half years. I have been holding all this time but have no regrets--I did what I needed to do to be there for him. He just committed to a school about 8 hours drive from home, but it is a great school and we have family in the area.

 

The pandemic has obviously been difficult to get through, but I do feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We are all vaccinated, so will hopefully be comfortable doing some more things soon. I literally had surgery yesterday so will be recovering over the next couple of weeks. I am very sore but home and resting.

 

Nice to see so many are now off! Stay safe and be well everyone!

[[Ma...]]

So since people are posting who haven't been around in a while are posting, I will post too!

 

I am planning to resume my taper in the fall after my youngest goes to college. He is finally doing well after being sick for nearly two and a half years. I have been holding all this time but have no regrets--I did what I needed to do to be there for him. He just committed to a school about 8 hours drive from home, but it is a great school and we have family in the area.

 

The pandemic has obviously been difficult to get through, but I do feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We are all vaccinated, so will hopefully be comfortable doing some more things soon. I literally had surgery yesterday so will be recovering over the next couple of weeks. I am very sore but home and resting.

 

Nice to see so many are now off! Stay safe and be well everyone!

 

Hey NJ.  It's so good to see you post and hear how well you and your son are doing!  That's just great.

Recover from that surgery quickly  .  Mary 

[[Di...]]

So since people are posting who haven't been around in a while are posting, I will post too!

 

I am planning to resume my taper in the fall after my youngest goes to college. He is finally doing well after being sick for nearly two and a half years. I have been holding all this time but have no regrets--I did what I needed to do to be there for him. He just committed to a school about 8 hours drive from home, but it is a great school and we have family in the area.

 

The pandemic has obviously been difficult to get through, but I do feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We are all vaccinated, so will hopefully be comfortable doing some more things soon. I literally had surgery yesterday so will be recovering over the next couple of weeks. I am very sore but home and resting.

 

Nice to see so many are now off! Stay safe and be well everyone!

 

Hi NJ,  I am fairly new glad to hear your son is so much better.  Wishing you good luck on resuming your taper and a quick recovery from surgery.

[[su...]]

Sunshine75, your question about estrogen is a really good one, and I haven't really even touched a lot on estrogen dominance or elevated estrogen. There are a couple of things to consider with estrogen (separate from all of the enzyme systems mentioned).

 

First, estrogen fluctuates constantly, so both blood and saliva testing must be taken with a grain of salt. If you test anytime from days 8 - 14 and you happen to test on the day of ovulation, estrogen will be reported as high. In fast, even the day before and after ovulation, estrogen might be counted as high.

 

Second, if you test anytime from day 19-28, estrogen might be tested as high, as this is the peak of luteal phase estrogen production.

 

So, estrogen is tricky to judge.

 

In most cases, the question is whether estrogen and progesterone are balanced properly. The only days that you can judge this for certain are at the peak of production, which is usually days 19-21, but if your cycles are more or less than 28 days, this might not be accurate.

 

So, whether this test is accurate depends on when it was taken, whether progesterone was taken also, what the ratio was, when you ovulated, and how long your cycles are.

 

Controlling estrogen production by the ovary is nearly impossible.

- We can reduce estrogen re-uptake in the gut with things like calcium-d-glucorate (I take this), the laxative effects of magnesium (I take this), activated charcoal (I do this around ovulation but it does also suck up all the vitamins so not for chronic use) and more fiber in the diet (fruits and veg - I do this).

- We can try to improve the balance of estrogens and their metabolites with things like indole-3-carbinol (I don't do this - I don't trust concentrated plant supplements much). We can try to modify receptor activity with things like baby aspirin (I take one of these daily), vitamins A, D, E and K2 (I do supplement with these sometimes), and certain phytochemicals like naringen from oranges and apigenin from chamomille (again, I don't take these due to my mistrust of concentrated plants but I do drink OJ).

- We can also try to help things on the other end, by encouraging the increased production of progesterone. The main way to do this is by improving thyroid function. Ideally, T3 should be in the top quarter of the range - the other numbers matter less. I supplement T3 to get there. You can take progesterone orally, but this alters the proper progesterone to 5 alpha DHP ratio leading to potential problems in the brain as mentioned in my other post. You can use progesterone cream but this can actually increase estrogen by inducing release from the tissues, and does nothing for your brain as it doesn't get converted to allo.

 

The single most important thing I did to help my hormones is taking T3. It brought my ratio to almost normal (I still need a little more progesterone, but I'm close), and my cycles back to 28 days (until now).

 

Since I just had a 23 day cycle, I am rechecking everything again. My mental symptoms are 100 times better though, so that's something. They aren't perfect though, and well, I am aiming for perfect. It's all so tricky!

 

So, for most women, symptoms from estrogen are actually due to low progesterone. Low progesterone makes the brain saaaaad (see my post above). Low progesterone is often due to inadequate active thyroid hormone T3 (super common in women). To add insult to injury, estrogen is anti-thyroid. Booooo!!!!

 

I should end with natural ways to boost T3. Carbs, adequate protein, aerobic exercise but not too much, stress reduction. Genetics play a huge role, and mine are terrible...So I take T3.

 

This is SO very helpful, flutternutter.  Thank you.  My levels were on day 11 of my cycle, but considered high based on lab parameters, I guess.  My cycles are still wonky, off a few days here and there (sometimes late, sometimes early), so ovulation is the wild west in my estimation.  I know that there are a myriad of factors to consider so will very much look forward to discussing with the NP.  Your insights here on what I CAN possibly do though are so very valuable.  Other things on my lab that need attention did include Vit D and some signs of iron deficiency.  I have been taking my oldest daughter's daily multivitamin with iron (she does suffer from low iron saturation and ferritin levels), and I have been tolerating them just fine, but I have not taken any other supplements or OTC meds since this mess began (save a couple Tylenol for cramps when I can't take it anymore--I'm too scared to go back to Advil as during my taper it turned on me).  Starting low and checking the waters will be how I proceed, but the knowledge about what I can do from a dietary standpoint is golden. 

 

I hope you are feeling better, that another window opens or at least stays cracked for some breathing room.  We'll get through this.  One.  Fricken.  Day/Hour/Minute. At. A. Time. 

[[to...]]

following

[[Su...]]

So since people are posting who haven't been around in a while are posting, I will post too!

 

I am planning to resume my taper in the fall after my youngest goes to college. He is finally doing well after being sick for nearly two and a half years. I have been holding all this time but have no regrets--I did what I needed to do to be there for him. He just committed to a school about 8 hours drive from home, but it is a great school and we have family in the area.

 

The pandemic has obviously been difficult to get through, but I do feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We are all vaccinated, so will hopefully be comfortable doing some more things soon. I literally had surgery yesterday so will be recovering over the next couple of weeks. I am very sore but home and resting.

 

Nice to see so many are now off! Stay safe and be well everyone!

 

Nice to see you here as well NJ.  I've been wondering how you've been.  Glad to hear that the hold worked for you to be able to focus on family.  Sometimes things take precedence don't they?

I hope that the recovery from surgery goes well!  Life is full

SS

[[Su...]]

Hello everyone!

How wonderful to see some great people come back and post! SS!! So great to see you post here again. I believe you and I are still battling the xanax😏.  Oh well we will defeat the benzo monster one day. 💪

 

Miyu, How fantastic that you've been off since January 2020! Congratulations to you as we all know how difficult a journey tapering a benzo is! Good luck in whatever comes next for you! I wish you bright benzo free days ahead!

 

Can't, I'll catch up with you soon! I still need to read your blog my favorite spy but finding the time is another story as this little one keeps me busier than I'd like to be. I do love him too pieces though. Hope all is well! 🐨♥️

 

Stut my twin miss you terribly! So great to see you post! I'm doing ok hanging in there and the baby is back to being his healthy self! 🙏😍 So glad you didn't leave me😳 I thought I would have to hop a boat and cross the pond to find you 😌! Lol!! Love you twinny! ♥️♥️

 

Mary girl where are you? I hope to hear from you soon and I certainly hope everything is alright with you. Thinking of you girlfriend🙏♥️♥️

 

A shout-out to the rest of the group! Hope everyone is hanging in there. Thinking of you all! Keep up the good fight!

 

Back when I can be!

Love to all,

Trishy♥️

 

Hi Trishy,

Yes we're captive to the same poison, although I've added the Valium 

And we'll get there!  we'll

get there... via frog venom or sheer determination.  I'm going to try the frogs, wish me luck

SS

 

 

[[su...]]

Beauty and Hope, hope today was an easier one.  I agree that sometimes convos can be most elucidating, validating, or just darn helpful when we need it most.  Sending healing thoughts to you both and all the lovely ladies here. 

[[be...]]

So since people are posting who haven't been around in a while are posting, I will post too!

 

I am planning to resume my taper in the fall after my youngest goes to college. He is finally doing well after being sick for nearly two and a half years. I have been holding all this time but have no regrets--I did what I needed to do to be there for him. He just committed to a school about 8 hours drive from home, but it is a great school and we have family in the area.

 

The pandemic has obviously been difficult to get through, but I do feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We are all vaccinated, so will hopefully be comfortable doing some more things soon. I literally had surgery yesterday so will be recovering over the next couple of weeks. I am very sore but home and resting.

 

Nice to see so many are now off! Stay safe and be well everyone!

Hi NJ, so happy to hear that your son is much better. I think that you did the best thing holding and you will do well the rest of your taper. I found that once I committed to how I was going to deal with the benzo tapering, it made all the difference in the world, I took control and that was my power, it is yours too. Stay Strong.💖 :smitten: 💖 😷

[Guest [fl...]]

Hi Ladies,

 

I continue my research, if only to understand. I don't know much what to do just yet.

 

It seems that withdrawal causes the production of the GABA alpha 4 subunit. This receptor is associated with anxiety and insensitive to benzos. It appears during withdrawal from benzos, alcohol and neurosteroids created by your own progesterone (allopregnanolone). It also appears when allopregnenolone rises. So that means that this receptor that causes anxiety appears twice - once when hormones rise and once when they fall. It takes 3-6 days usually to go away, during which time anxiety is heightened.

 

Now, what do to about it? I am a bit stumped. I know that fluoxetine is thought to help by blunting the fall in neurosteroids as it increases allopregnanolone. Progesterone has not been found to help, likely because it's a complicated hormones that can both lead to the production of GABA antagonists and increase the enzyme that does this. Supplementation therefore isn't as good as one would hope. Flumezenil actually does block this receptor and blocks the anxiety in rodents at least, but how in the heck do I get that!? Interestingly, flumezanil lozenges are made for narcolepsy - I wonder if I could get some?

 

We really need to do studies on flumezenil and PMS / PMDD - that could be life changing if it worked!!! Post taper of course (during taper that wouldn't be so good!)

 

Well, I understand better but I'm still stuck in a wave. Someone please tell me that the brain heals and we can handle hormones again. I am despondent.

[[Tr...]]

Hi ladies, this process is awful and can test even the strongest of people. But I’m living proof that it does get better and settle. It took me just over a year to settle and I just finished my period with minor issues. I felt a small blip last night which was my last day and looked back to October last year where I would have been a crying suicidal mess. I didn’t cry throughout this entire period, I haven’t cried for a while, in fact I can’t remember when last I cried, last year it was a daily ritual. Last year really burned me hard. This year the fire is out and the soil is being remediated and I believe next year will be planting season. Hang in there, I know it feels infinite but it’s not. If you are off all meds, wait until a year off, you are likely to see an improvement. We aren’t all the same, some of you can even reach this stage sooner so keep the hope alive.

[[NJ...]]

Thanks for all the kind words! I have missed everyone here but since I am not tapering and just holding for years, dropped off for a while.

 

I know my long hold was what I needed to deal with my son's illness, and my mom's near death experience and ending up in a nursing home, which has been very difficult during COVID. We all have different paths, and I know I chose the right one for me.

[[ho...]]

Happy Easter Everyone..!!

 

-How many of the old gang are still here..?? I see Trishie and Stut... -and others from around the boards...

 

Hey spy! Happy Easter to you! I hope it was a good one for you. Mine not so good. My little grandson's we're here and they both looked sick so long story short they were tested for Covid today and we're waiting for the results. I'm extremely upset and not coping well atm.

 

I see lots of new faces around here not many of the old crew anymore. I'd like to pop on more if I could find the time. Miss my buddies a lot!

 

How's everything with you? I hope life has been treating you well. I posted to you on your blog not that long ago just say hi and check up on you

 

You take care my friend! I'll be climbing down the tree from time to time and dropping by to see ya. 🐨

 

Stay cool spy🕵️‍♂️

Trishy, 🐨♥️

Ill catch u up.. -just about to head out to a dr, and hope I can get my car/submarine through the creek.. -tis a tad wet here atm..

 

Hope its just a normal “sick”, and not bad..

 

 

Hello hello!

Miyu here .... I got a PM from Barbara Ave, I haven’t been  on BB in probably nearly 1-1/2years… I’m on my phone right now so I really can’t see much of anything it’s all so tiny,  but I’m going to come back in the next few days and write and see how everybody’s doing

 

Took my last dose of Valium  in January 2020, having been healed in six months by Kambô  frog medicine

I wrote it in my success story back then too I think

 

I’m doing really well, almost back to normal apart from some restless legs and sleep issues, but I’m happy and feel pretty good most of the time

 

It Really can and does happen !!

 

Sending lots and lots of love to the old gang, and to the new ones here to who I don’t know. Hang in there -our bodies are amazing and really do heal as we get off these dreadful drugs

 

Miyu  :smitten: :smitten:

 

 

Miyu-  I read your blog update and I so enjoyed it.  Thank you for sharing about the Frog therapy.  I am in the process of looking at places around my area that offer the therapy. I am so excited. 

 

Marie

[[ho...]]

Mary - Nice to see you here....I haven’t seen you for a bit, and was just wondering about you and here you were today when I popped over 

 

NJ -  I am pretty new here.... So getting to know some of the old timers....welcome back.  Sorry to hear your son was sick, but so good to hear he is well and going off to college!  My daughter is suppose to go off this fall too.  Hopefully when you are ready to resume, it will go smoothly for you

 

I look forward to getting to know more of you better as we all continue this journey and are here to support one another 

 

Marie