The Long Hold Support Group

[[Di...]]

[[ho...]]

Haimona and Marie so glad to hear you are both having windows!!!  I had a really good one a couple nights ago it was wonderful.  Praying for more for all of us.  I'm sure hoping this long hold I'm doing pays off big time!  Hugs ❤

 

So strange...I posted to you and it didn’t show up

 

Now it’s going to be short.

 

I’m glad you had a window...the night windows are a sign the windows should be coming.  That is what happened to me at least.  It started with nights....then I would wake up and bam a “ WINDOW”......   So your hold should definitely pay off

 

Marie

[[Di...]]

Marie I sure hope so think I have only had 2-3 morning windows all this time. 

[[Tr...]]

Hi Ladies, just thought to let you know that I believe my periods no longer affect my symptoms. The last couple of cycles have only been getting better and now I don’t feel any upticks. It’s been just over a year off the meds, so all of you struggling please know it does get better. It’s so good to just have a normal period now. Someone said the people who started this thread are gone, surely we will also get off this thread at some point. I believe this is true. Thank you to everyone who supported me during the hardest experience of my life. I will forever be grateful.

[[ki...]]

Hi Ladies, just thought to let you know that I believe my periods no longer affect my symptoms. The last couple of cycles have only been getting better and now I don’t feel any upticks. It’s been just over a year off the meds, so all of you struggling please know it does get better. It’s so good to just have a normal period now. Someone said the people who started this thread are gone, surely we will also get off this thread at some point. I believe this is true. Thank you to everyone who supported me during the hardest experience of my life. I will forever be grateful.

 

I am so happy to read this!!! Only healing and peace from here on out! Thank you for sharing your healing with us. ❤️❤️❤️

[[Ha...]]

Hi all,

 

Not to jinx anything, but today is day 3 of the window.  I am starting to feel hopeful that this was the right dose to reinstate to get stable again ... if so, it took me just shy of three weeks to get stable after reinstating.  I am sharing this information in case it helps anyone else.  I am not 100%, but this is the third day of decent sleep and low levels of symptoms (mostly anxiety, brain fog, and cognitive issues).  I even went out to a local outdoor market today and met a friend there (with masks, etc).  Where is the "fingers crossed" emoji???

 

 

Haimona

[[ki...]]

Hi all,

 

Not to jinx anything, but today is day 3 of the window.  I am starting to feel hopeful that this was the right dose to reinstate to get stable again ... if so, it took me just shy of three weeks to get stable after reinstating.  I am sharing this information in case it helps anyone else.  I am not 100%, but this is the third day of decent sleep and low levels of symptoms (mostly anxiety, brain fog, and cognitive issues).  I even went out to a local outdoor market today and met a friend there (with masks, etc).  Where is the "fingers crossed" emoji???

 

 

Haimona

 

Hooray for windows!!! ❤️❤️❤️🌸🌸🌸🎊🎊🎊

[[Di...]]

Hi all,

 

Not to jinx anything, but today is day 3 of the window.  I am starting to feel hopeful that this was the right dose to reinstate to get stable again ... if so, it took me just shy of three weeks to get stable after reinstating.  I am sharing this information in case it helps anyone else.  I am not 100%, but this is the third day of decent sleep and low levels of symptoms (mostly anxiety, brain fog, and cognitive issues).  I even went out to a local outdoor market today and met a friend there (with masks, etc).  Where is the "fingers crossed" emoji???

 

 

Haimona

 

Hooray for windows!!! ❤️❤️❤️🌸🌸🌸🎊🎊🎊

 

So happy for Haimona...you sure deserve it!!!❤❤❤

[[Sh...]]

Hi all,

 

Not to jinx anything, but today is day 3 of the window.  I am starting to feel hopeful that this was the right dose to reinstate to get stable again ... if so, it took me just shy of three weeks to get stable after reinstating.  I am sharing this information in case it helps anyone else.  I am not 100%, but this is the third day of decent sleep and low levels of symptoms (mostly anxiety, brain fog, and cognitive issues).  I even went out to a local outdoor market today and met a friend there (with masks, etc).  Where is the "fingers crossed" emoji???

 

 

Haimona

 

Hooray for windows!!! ❤️❤️❤️🌸🌸🌸🎊🎊🎊

 

So happy for Haimona...you sure deserve it!!!❤❤❤

 

I love hearing news like this. Enjoy it honey x

[[Ha...]]

Thank you, Kitsune, Dianedeedee, and Shayna.  I sure am relishing the window! It has been a LONG time.

 

Hopeful for wide open windows for all of us. 

 

Haimona

[[ho...]]

Hi all,

 

Not to jinx anything, but today is day 3 of the window.  I am starting to feel hopeful that this was the right dose to reinstate to get stable again ... if so, it took me just shy of three weeks to get stable after reinstating.  I am sharing this information in case it helps anyone else.  I am not 100%, but this is the third day of decent sleep and low levels of symptoms (mostly anxiety, brain fog, and cognitive issues).  I even went out to a local outdoor market today and met a friend there (with masks, etc).  Where is the "fingers crossed" emoji???

 

 

Haimona

 

That is such great news.  So glad you got out and are feeling better   This will for sure help others.  Hurray for BB’s 

 

Marie

[[su...]]

Love this news, Trying! I hope this becomes a trend for us all, sooner than later. 

[Guest [fl...]]

Hi guys, so many here have helped me through so many rough patches when I thought I might not make it another day. I stepped away for a while when I was having a horrid wave, as I felt that not only was I not going to be helpful to anyone, I might make some slip ups in my posts. I tend to get quite enthusiastic about science and interventions, and not everyone cares to hear it!

 

Anyway, I wanted to try to give back, and to do so in a way that follows the rules.

 

Anyone who has read my posts probably knows that I love science. I believe that there is always something to be done to help our healing. It is a bit like a garden - you can't grow a full plant from a seed overnight, but you can nurture that seed to make the best plant possible. There may be storms and droughts along the way, but understanding these and providing some extra water or shade might do the trick to help your garden grow. I think the brain is the same.

 

I continue to study hormones because it's near and dear to my heart (and not always in the happiest of ways...). I have just passed through the luteal phase and am on day 1 of my period. For the first time, the uptick in symptoms has been mild. Not absent, but 100 times better than last month. My hormones were like a dementor in my brain - it was horrid. Chocolate didn't help (a joke for Harry Potter fans...)

 

Understanding helped me so much, so I want to share.

 

Day 1 is the first day of your period. On this day, hormones are at their lowest. Your brain is making adjustments, the biggest one being a dramatic fall in allopregnanolone (due to the fall in progesterone and its beautiful, well-behaved metabolite 5 alpha DHP). Since allopregnanolone is the neurosteroid in our brains that protects GABA balance (it is the fertilizer that makes the garden grow), all of the receptors now have to adjust (a bit like withdrawal). The more 5 alpha DHP that you made, the better off you will likely be (more on that later).

 

Days 2-7 hormones rise, primarily estrogen. Estrogen isn't the complete devil we all think it is. Estrogen actually increases an enzyme called 3 alpha HSD. This enzyme converts 5 alpha DHP to allopregnanolone. Estrogen also lowers glutamate, and binds to the calming beta estrogen receptor. That said, when it spikes, it also binds to the more excitatory alpha receptor where it can make you feel a bit anxious, usually during ovulation. Many start to feel better during this time (except during ovulation).

 

Days 8-14: Hormones continue to rise and ovulation occurs at some point here. For many, ovulation is day 14, but it isn't always. Many women feel pretty good during this time.

 

Day 14-21: This is when the luteal phase occurs if you ovulated. The corpus luteum produces progesterone and 5 alpha DHP. 5 alpha DHP is almost never discussed but is likely the missing link in our understanding of female hormones because, unlike progesterone, it is much more likely to make the calming neurosteroid allopregnanolone. It is produced in the ovary (corpus luteum) and brain (and likely liver and other organs) by the enzyme 5 alpha reductase. It is then converted to allopregnanolone by 3 alpha HSD.

 

Day 21 - 24: Estrogen and progesterone are at their peak. If anything went wrong with 5 alpha reductase or 3 alpha HSD during days 14-21 then things get ugly. This is usually when PMDD symptoms peak (whether acquired from benzos or a prior diagnosis). If progesterone was not converted to 5 alpha DHP or 5 alpha DHP was not converted to allopregnanolone due to a problem with these enzymes, then their is an over-production of GABA antagonists such as isopregnanolone.

 

Day 24-28: Estrogen and progesterone start falling. Again, if anything went wrong with the enzyme system and allopregnanolone was not produced in sufficient quantities and GABA antagonists are present, withdrawal symptoms from the drop in progesterone start. 5 alpha DHP softens this blow (which is why some have little to no PMS), but if you didn't make enough, then PMS ensues.

 

I hope that wasn't too technical and helps to set up what I am about to say next. So the question is - how can we reduce our suffering?

 

I don't want to diagnose or recommend treatments, but there are some things in here that address these issues that are not meant to be either. I hope that is ok.

 

In order to address this, we have to ensure that 5 alpha reductase and 3 alpha HSD are working well and that 3 beta HSD (3 alpha HSD's evil twin?) is as low as possible.

 

5 alpha reductase in inhibited by many, many plant compounds. This may be a bigger reason for waves when using herbal supplements than any GABAergic activity. There are too many to list all but they include lion's mane, reishi, EGCG, magnolia, skullcap and many, many more. In addition, riboflavin and zinc are potent 5 alpha reductase inhibitors. This may explain waves with vitamin supplements. Age, genetics, and stress contribute as well.

 

5 alpha reductase is increased by glycine and progesterone. Glycine is present in bone broth and collagen. It can be supplemented but it is a glutamate receptor agonist so be careful. I have supplemented up to 10 grams. If I do it at night it gives me insomnia, but I haven't noticed much else. It can lower blood sugar and cause GI issues. I probably wouldn't recommend supplementing this to the faint of heart, but bone broth is a gentle way to do it with a whole food.

 

Progesterone is produced by your body. It can be supplemented but I think it shouldn't be. I used to be a big believer in progesterone until after some deep digging I discovered that when the body makes progesterone it converts a lot of it to 5 alpha DHP. Since 5 alpha DHP is not available as anything but a research chemical at this time, supplementing progesterone does not provide the proper hormone balance for your body and could result in GABA antagonist formation and more problems than solutions. This is likely the reason for a lot of disappointing results with progesterone supplementation. I have personally taken the research chemical 5 alpha DHP - I think it helped, but wouldn't recommend most take a research chemical, I just happen to know this lab and trust them.

 

3 alpha HSD is increased by creatine, sulforaphane, cortisol and estrogen. Creatine is present in meat, particularly red meat. You can supplement it, and this is at your discretion. There are some interesting studies on the benefits of creatine for the brain. I take 2g a day, but if you eat meat, you likely get plenty. Sulforaphane is a product of cruciferous veggies, especially broccoli sprouts. It can be supplemented, but I am not sure it should. The body is not accustomed to high doses of this. I do take it 3 times a week, but this is a personal choice. Cortisol and estrogen can be replaced when needed, but this is between you and your doctor. You probably have enough of both in your body already.

 

3 alpha HSD is famously increased by some SSRIs. The required dose is likely tiny as indicated by animal studies - no human studies have been done on tiny doses (too expensive). The likely dose, according to some experts, is fluoxetine 1-2mg, sertraline 5-6mg, paroxotine 1-2mg. There are others in this family too - doses are likely 1/10 - 1/50. Not wanting to throw out the baby with the bathwater (as dirty as it might be), I take fluoxetine 1mg daily. This is a choice most wouldn't make, but I really needed it. I suffered no side-effects at this dose.

 

3 beta HSD should be minimized. It is increased by nicotine.

 

The balance of 3 alpha HSD and 3 beta HSD can be improved by improving the health of your mitochondria as it required NAD. The most famous way is Coenzyme Q10. This is found in abundance in...sardines. You can supplement at your discretion. Perhaps this explains the success of NAD treatments for some.

 

OK. Summary: increase 5 alpha reductase (bone broth = glycine), minimize 5 alpha reductase inhibitors (limit concentrated herbal supplements), maximize 3 alpha HSD (meat, broccoli/certain SSRIs) and minimize 3 beta HSD (minimize/stop smoking). This results in more 5 alpha DHP from progesterone, more allopregnanolone and fewer GABA antagonist. This makes your brain happier and more able to deal with hormone flux. I actually did this, and I went from feeling like a dementor was living in my brain and wanted to end me, to mild dysphoria. Hopefully it gets even better from here.

 

Science can be a beautiful thing. I am sure I have only scratched the surface in learning.

 

Hoping healing to all.

[[ki...]]

Fluffer, that is some fascinating information! Do you have links to the sources you got this from?

 

Now, I’m just gonna go get me some steaks and broccoli at the grocery store (already have bone broth). 😆

[[su...]]

Hi guys, so many here have helped me through so many rough patches when I thought I might not make it another day. I stepped away for a while when I was having a horrid wave, as I felt that not only was I not going to be helpful to anyone, I might make some slip ups in my posts. I tend to get quite enthusiastic about science and interventions, and not everyone cares to hear it!

 

Anyway, I wanted to try to give back, and to do so in a way that follows the rules.

 

Anyone who has read my posts probably knows that I love science. I believe that there is always something to be done to help our healing. It is a bit like a garden - you can't grow a full plant from a seed overnight, but you can nurture that seed to make the best plant possible. There may be storms and droughts along the way, but understanding these and providing some extra water or shade might do the trick to help your garden grow. I think the brain is the same.

 

I continue to study hormones because it's near and dear to my heart (and not always in the happiest of ways...). I have just passed through the luteal phase and am on day 1 of my period. For the first time, the uptick in symptoms has been mild. Not absent, but 100 times better than last month. My hormones were like a dementor in my brain - it was horrid. Chocolate didn't help (a joke for Harry Potter fans...)

 

Understanding helped me so much, so I want to share.

 

Day 1 is the first day of your period. On this day, hormones are at their lowest. Your brain is making adjustments, the biggest one being a dramatic fall in allopregnanolone (due to the fall in progesterone and its beautiful, well-behaved metabolite 5 alpha DHP). Since allopregnanolone is the neurosteroid in our brains that protects GABA balance (it is the fertilizer that makes the garden grow), all of the receptors now have to adjust (a bit like withdrawal). The more 5 alpha DHP that you made, the better off you will likely be (more on that later).

 

Days 2-7 hormones rise, primarily estrogen. Estrogen isn't the complete devil we all think it is. Estrogen actually increases an enzyme called 3 alpha HSD. This enzyme converts 5 alpha DHP to allopregnanolone. Estrogen also lowers glutamate, and binds to the calming beta estrogen receptor. That said, when it spikes, it also binds to the more excitatory alpha receptor where it can make you feel a bit anxious, usually during ovulation. Many start to feel better during this time (except during ovulation).

 

Days 8-14: Hormones continue to rise and ovulation occurs at some point here. For many, ovulation is day 14, but it isn't always. Many women feel pretty good during this time.

 

Day 14-21: This is when the luteal phase occurs if you ovulated. The corpus luteum produces progesterone and 5 alpha DHP. 5 alpha DHP is almost never discussed but is likely the missing link in our understanding of female hormones because, unlike progesterone, it is much more likely to make the calming neurosteroid allopregnanolone. It is produced in the ovary (corpus luteum) and brain (and likely liver and other organs) by the enzyme 5 alpha reductase. It is then converted to allopregnanolone by 3 alpha HSD.

 

Day 21 - 24: Estrogen and progesterone are at their peak. If anything went wrong with 5 alpha reductase or 3 alpha HSD during days 14-21 then things get ugly. This is usually when PMDD symptoms peak (whether acquired from benzos or a prior diagnosis). If progesterone was not converted to 5 alpha DHP or 5 alpha DHP was not converted to allopregnanolone due to a problem with these enzymes, then their is an over-production of GABA antagonists such as isopregnanolone.

 

Day 24-28: Estrogen and progesterone start falling. Again, if anything went wrong with the enzyme system and allopregnanolone was not produced in sufficient quantities and GABA antagonists are present, withdrawal symptoms from the drop in progesterone start. 5 alpha DHP softens this blow (which is why some have little to no PMS), but if you didn't make enough, then PMS ensues.

 

I hope that wasn't too technical and helps to set up what I am about to say next. So the question is - how can we reduce our suffering?

 

I don't want to diagnose or recommend treatments, but there are some things in here that address these issues that are not meant to be either. I hope that is ok.

 

In order to address this, we have to ensure that 5 alpha reductase and 3 alpha HSD are working well and that 3 beta HSD (3 alpha HSD's evil twin?) is as low as possible.

 

5 alpha reductase in inhibited by many, many plant compounds. This may be a bigger reason for waves when using herbal supplements than any GABAergic activity. There are too many to list all but they include lion's mane, reishi, EGCG, magnolia, skullcap and many, many more. In addition, riboflavin and zinc are potent 5 alpha reductase inhibitors. This may explain waves with vitamin supplements. Age, genetics, and stress contribute as well.

 

5 alpha reductase is increased by glycine and progesterone. Glycine is present in bone broth and collagen. It can be supplemented but it is a glutamate receptor agonist so be careful. I have supplemented up to 10 grams. If I do it at night it gives me insomnia, but I haven't noticed much else. It can lower blood sugar and cause GI issues. I probably wouldn't recommend supplementing this to the faint of heart, but bone broth is a gentle way to do it with a whole food.

 

Progesterone is produced by your body. It can be supplemented but I think it shouldn't be. I used to be a big believer in progesterone until after some deep digging I discovered that when the body makes progesterone it converts a lot of it to 5 alpha DHP. Since 5 alpha DHP is not available as anything but a research chemical at this time, supplementing progesterone does not provide the proper hormone balance for your body and could result in GABA antagonist formation and more problems than solutions. This is likely the reason for a lot of disappointing results with progesterone supplementation. I have personally taken the research chemical 5 alpha DHP - I think it helped, but wouldn't recommend most take a research chemical, I just happen to know this lab and trust them.

 

3 alpha HSD is increased by creatine, sulforaphane, cortisol and estrogen. Creatine is present in meat, particularly red meat. You can supplement it, and this is at your discretion. There are some interesting studies on the benefits of creatine for the brain. I take 2g a day, but if you eat meat, you likely get plenty. Sulforaphane is a product of cruciferous veggies, especially broccoli sprouts. It can be supplemented, but I am not sure it should. The body is not accustomed to high doses of this. I do take it 3 times a week, but this is a personal choice. Cortisol and estrogen can be replaced when needed, but this is between you and your doctor. You probably have enough of both in your body already.

 

3 alpha HSD is famously increased by some SSRIs. The required dose is likely tiny as indicated by animal studies - no human studies have been done on tiny doses (too expensive). The likely dose, according to some experts, is fluoxetine 1-2mg, sertraline 5-6mg, paroxotine 1-2mg. There are others in this family too - doses are likely 1/10 - 1/50. Not wanting to throw out the baby with the bathwater (as dirty as it might be), I take fluoxetine 1mg daily. This is a choice most wouldn't make, but I really needed it. I suffered no side-effects at this dose.

 

3 beta HSD should be minimized. It is increased by nicotine.

 

The balance of 3 alpha HSD and 3 beta HSD can be improved by improving the health of your mitochondria as it required NAD. The most famous way is Coenzyme Q10. This is found in abundance in...sardines. You can supplement at your discretion. Perhaps this explains the success of NAD treatments for some.

 

OK. Summary: increase 5 alpha reductase (bone broth = glycine), minimize 5 alpha reductase inhibitors (limit concentrated herbal supplements), maximize 3 alpha HSD (meat, broccoli/certain SSRIs) and minimize 3 beta HSD (minimize/stop smoking). This results in more 5 alpha DHP from progesterone, more allopregnanolone and fewer GABA antagonist. This makes your brain happier and more able to deal with hormone flux. I actually did this, and I went from feeling like a dementor was living in my brain and wanted to end me, to mild dysphoria. Hopefully it gets even better from here.

 

Science can be a beautiful thing. I am sure I have only scratched the surface in learning.

 

Hoping healing to all.

 

flutternutter,

 

Thank you for taking so much time providing information and helping to elucidate the hormonal component to all of this.  Your passion is evident and your drive to help is notable.  This community really does bring out the most wonderful traits of human beings.  Thank you again.

 

I for one am still feeling overwhelmed at all the science behind withdrawal (what little is known about it, at least) and, of course, adding in the hormonal connection to how we [women] are feeling during this process, but it is surely not a lack of curiosity or capability.  I have likewise struggled with the feeling of being off, of having that cognitive fog and those awful moments of "hey my brain feels like it's stuck in dial-up, 1999 mode" since my benzo nightmare.  I know this feeling is something that many of our BBs experience, and it is one of my worst symptoms, at least the one that makes me actually feel damaged.  I know things are getting better, ever so slowly, but not that long ago I was a highly over-analytical personality, someone who had a passion for research and learning (before mother nature decided to play a trick on me a few years ago and bless us with a late in life little one, I was on the professoriate track in the field of literary and cultural studies; namely, my bread and butter was research, writing, and teaching).  The ego hit during withdrawal is one thing, but when the essence of how you perceive the world and function within it becomes distorted, it's an emotional hit that feels insurmountable.  With that, I commend you again on using your faculties to solve a problem and offer better understandings of the inextricable nature of our bodily functions caught within this maelstrom of withdrawal. 

 

For the record, I am super proud of my ability to recall and properly use a word like maelstrom right now  

 

Anyways, I want to inquire a bit more about what the role of too much estrogen, namely estradilol, might be?  Because I was feeling so awful again last month, having some new issues arise, I finally got up the nerve to seek out a new primary care provider.  I ended up finding a conventional medicine clinic with an integrative approach and met with a NP last week.  After listening to my abridged version of last year's benzo fiasco, she immediately noted that withdrawal can happen in as little as 3 days.  You can imagine my joy at not only being listened to but validated as well.  She agreed that I should cover all my bases though and have some various labs and tests done just to make sure nothing else was going on.  My follow-up is next week but my labs did come in already.  I'm not about to try and decipher what the labs mean on my own, but one thing that peaked my interest was I had high levels of estradilol. 

 

Before I meet with her next week, I am wanting to delve into this hormonal component much more.  Namely, I think it is what got me into the benzo issue in the first place as I kept telling my old provider last year that something was awry, and while anxiety was definitely an issue, I felt like hormonal issues were driving the bus (the cysts, weight gain--namely not losing even after caloric cuts and increasing my workouts--bouts of bloating, palpitations, joints aching more than usual, irregular periods, etc...).  I had also just stopped breastfeeding my little one at that time, so I knew in my heart of hearts that my body was out of whack.  He kept deflecting, however, focusing on the anxiety (UGH), hence the Rx of the benzo.  Sigh. 

 

So, my understanding of how to help lower estrogen includes eating those cruciferous veggies and healthy fats (check), avoiding alcohol (check), and babying the central nervous system (double check).  My question is how can I lower my estradilol levels naturally beyond what I am already doing?  Removing my ovaries is not something I am wanting to do even though I do have small ovarian cysts and a fibroid right now that my OBGYN and I are conservatively watching (the cysts have shrunk within the last few months and the fibroid is very small, stable).  All of this I will discuss at my follow-up, but given your foray here into hormones, I want to educate myself as much as possible going in to my appointment. 

 

I need to digest your breakdown here some more later when I am having more clarity and do not have a 3-year-old hanging on my leg but wanted to respond with my line of inquiry as I had a moment now.  If a PM would be better--I'm not wanting to hijack the thread--please feel free to do so. 

 

Many thanks again for your endeavors and efforts here, fluffernutter.  I hope you continue feeling better and better!

 

 

 

[Guest [fl...]]

Sunshine75, your question about estrogen is a really good one, and I haven't really even touched a lot on estrogen dominance or elevated estrogen. There are a couple of things to consider with estrogen (separate from all of the enzyme systems mentioned).

 

First, estrogen fluctuates constantly, so both blood and saliva testing must be taken with a grain of salt. If you test anytime from days 8 - 14 and you happen to test on the day of ovulation, estrogen will be reported as high. In fast, even the day before and after ovulation, estrogen might be counted as high.

 

Second, if you test anytime from day 19-28, estrogen might be tested as high, as this is the peak of luteal phase estrogen production.

 

So, estrogen is tricky to judge.

 

In most cases, the question is whether estrogen and progesterone are balanced properly. The only days that you can judge this for certain are at the peak of production, which is usually days 19-21, but if your cycles are more or less than 28 days, this might not be accurate.

 

So, whether this test is accurate depends on when it was taken, whether progesterone was taken also, what the ratio was, when you ovulated, and how long your cycles are.

 

Controlling estrogen production by the ovary is nearly impossible.

- We can reduce estrogen re-uptake in the gut with things like calcium-d-glucorate (I take this), the laxative effects of magnesium (I take this), activated charcoal (I do this around ovulation but it does also suck up all the vitamins so not for chronic use) and more fiber in the diet (fruits and veg - I do this).

- We can try to improve the balance of estrogens and their metabolites with things like indole-3-carbinol (I don't do this - I don't trust concentrated plant supplements much). We can try to modify receptor activity with things like baby aspirin (I take one of these daily), vitamins A, D, E and K2 (I do supplement with these sometimes), and certain phytochemicals like naringen from oranges and apigenin from chamomille (again, I don't take these due to my mistrust of concentrated plants but I do drink OJ).

- We can also try to help things on the other end, by encouraging the increased production of progesterone. The main way to do this is by improving thyroid function. Ideally, T3 should be in the top quarter of the range - the other numbers matter less. I supplement T3 to get there. You can take progesterone orally, but this alters the proper progesterone to 5 alpha DHP ratio leading to potential problems in the brain as mentioned in my other post. You can use progesterone cream but this can actually increase estrogen by inducing release from the tissues, and does nothing for your brain as it doesn't get converted to allo.

 

The single most important thing I did to help my hormones is taking T3. It brought my ratio to almost normal (I still need a little more progesterone, but I'm close), and my cycles back to 28 days (until now).

 

Since I just had a 23 day cycle, I am rechecking everything again. My mental symptoms are 100 times better though, so that's something. They aren't perfect though, and well, I am aiming for perfect. It's all so tricky!

 

So, for most women, symptoms from estrogen are actually due to low progesterone. Low progesterone makes the brain saaaaad (see my post above). Low progesterone is often due to inadequate active thyroid hormone T3 (super common in women). To add insult to injury, estrogen is anti-thyroid. Booooo!!!!

 

I should end with natural ways to boost T3. Carbs, adequate protein, aerobic exercise but not too much, stress reduction. Genetics play a huge role, and mine are terrible...So I take T3.

[[be...]]

Thank you for this conversation, fluffer and sunshine. I am really appreciating every word. Sunshine, that maelstrom paragraph you wrote was straight fire. You really nailed it. Just so beautifully said. Fluffer, I’m certain you are on to something with these hormonal supplements. I admire your big scientific knowledge and determination to find answers for yourself and all of us.

 

PMS week for me...it’s been a long wavy month, so I’m really praying for some mercy this time.

 

Much love to all,

Beauty

[[Ho...]]

I agree with Beauty. This helps me feel like there is some reasoning to this bad wave I’m in. I am waiting for my period. The wave started on day 18 (if my menstrual cycle continues at a pace of 28 days). The week of ovulation I made a transition from pills to compounding liquid in withdrawal, the transition went super smooth. Could ovulation have helped the push? Then the following week, I was hit hard which would have been 7 days following ovulation. Still fighting through. Symptoms have improved a tad except insomnia has arose (never had a bad issue with it).

 

Whew. Hormones are such an added bonus to this journey 

 

Praying when my period comes, I will get some rest and a window.

 

THANK YOU for these conversations.

[[...]]

Happy Easter Everyone..!!

 

-How many of the old gang are still here..?? I see Trishie and Stut... -and others from around the boards...

 

Hey spy! Happy Easter to you! I hope it was a good one for you. Mine not so good. My little grandson's we're here and they both looked sick so long story short they were tested for Covid today and we're waiting for the results. I'm extremely upset and not coping well atm.

 

I see lots of new faces around here not many of the old crew anymore. I'd like to pop on more if I could find the time. Miss my buddies a lot!

 

How's everything with you? I hope life has been treating you well. I posted to you on your blog not that long ago just say hi and check up on you

 

You take care my friend! I'll be climbing down the tree from time to time and dropping by to see ya. 🐨

 

Stay cool spy🕵️‍♂️

Trishy, 🐨♥️

Ill catch u up.. -just about to head out to a dr, and hope I can get my car/submarine through the creek.. -tis a tad wet here atm..

 

Hope its just a normal “sick”, and not bad..

 

 

Hello hello!

Miyu here .... I got a PM from Barbara Ave, I haven’t been  on BB in probably nearly 1-1/2years… I’m on my phone right now so I really can’t see much of anything it’s all so tiny,  but I’m going to come back in the next few days and write and see how everybody’s doing

 

Took my last dose of Valium  in January 2020, having been healed in six months by Kambô  frog medicine

I wrote it in my success story back then too I think

 

I’m doing really well, almost back to normal apart from some restless legs and sleep issues, but I’m happy and feel pretty good most of the time

 

It Really can and does happen !!

 

Sending lots and lots of love to the old gang, and to the new ones here to who I don’t know. Hang in there -our bodies are amazing and really do heal as we get off these dreadful drugs

 

Miyu  :smitten: :smitten:

[[Su...]]

Happy Easter Everyone..!!

 

-How many of the old gang are still here..?? I see Trishie and Stut... -and others from around the boards...

 

Hey spy! Happy Easter to you! I hope it was a good one for you. Mine not so good. My little grandson's we're here and they both looked sick so long story short they were tested for Covid today and we're waiting for the results. I'm extremely upset and not coping well atm.

 

I see lots of new faces around here not many of the old crew anymore. I'd like to pop on more if I could find the time. Miss my buddies a lot!

 

How's everything with you? I hope life has been treating you well. I posted to you on your blog not that long ago just say hi and check up on you

 

You take care my friend! I'll be climbing down the tree from time to time and dropping by to see ya. 🐨

 

Stay cool spy🕵️‍♂️

Trishy, 🐨♥️

Ill catch u up.. -just about to head out to a dr, and hope I can get my car/submarine through the creek.. -tis a tad wet here atm..

 

Hope its just a normal “sick”, and not bad..

 

 

Hello hello!

Miyu here .... I got a PM from Barbara Ave, I haven’t been  on BB in probably nearly 1-1/2years… I’m on my phone right now so I really can’t see much of anything it’s all so tiny,  but I’m going to come back in the next few days and write and see how everybody’s doing

 

Took my last dose of Valium  in January 2020, having been healed in six months by Kambô  frog medicine

I wrote it in my success story back then too I think

 

I’m doing really well, almost back to normal apart from some restless legs and sleep issues, but I’m happy and feel pretty good most of the time

 

It Really can and does happen !!

 

Sending lots and lots of love to the old gang, and to the new ones here to who I don’t know. Hang in there -our bodies are amazing and really do heal as we get off these dreadful drugs

 

Miyu  :smitten: :smitten:

 

Miyu!

How great to see you writing here, and to hear that it was the frog medicine that did it.

 

I continue to inch down -- but this is inspiring and I'll look up your success story.

I have recently come back here as well after bing off for a while.

Just trudging along.....

:smitten:

[Guest [fl...]]

Hello ladies, I just wanted to give my menstrual roller coaster monthly progress report. haha.

 

I have been trying to apply as much of the science that I've discovered as possible - for my benefit and hopefully yours. My cycles have been resulted in severe symptoms, with last month being one of the worst. It started on Day 22 and ended on Day 4. The depression and anxiety were nearly unbearable.

 

I made a lot of changes (as I posted about), and hoped for the best. Oddly, my cycle was short again (22 days - it had been 28). I felt a slight uptick on days 21 and 22, then day 1 (yesterday) was a lot more difficult in the evening. This morning I was tearful, depressed and anxious and felt a bit hopeless.

 

I carried on supporting my enzyme systems, knowing that my brain is still healing so there weren't going to be any miracles. You can provide water, sunshine and fertilizer to the garden, and this is going to help it flourish but, the reality is, those seeds still have to grow. Growing seeds always takes time, like it or not (I admit, I don't like it...)

 

Well, I am already starting to feel better - a miracle compared to last month. A two day wave versus a twelve day wave is a big win.

 

I'm know that more bumps will likely come (and I may be crying for support when that happens - thank you all in advance for that), but with some little changes, maybe the garden is growing a little quicker and greener.

[[Ca...]]

Happy Easter Everyone..!!

 

-How many of the old gang are still here..?? I see Trishie and Stut... -and others from around the boards...

 

Hey spy! Happy Easter to you! I hope it was a good one for you. Mine not so good. My little grandson's we're here and they both looked sick so long story short they were tested for Covid today and we're waiting for the results. I'm extremely upset and not coping well atm.

 

I see lots of new faces around here not many of the old crew anymore. I'd like to pop on more if I could find the time. Miss my buddies a lot!

 

How's everything with you? I hope life has been treating you well. I posted to you on your blog not that long ago just say hi and check up on you

 

You take care my friend! I'll be climbing down the tree from time to time and dropping by to see ya. 🐨

 

Stay cool spy🕵️‍♂️

Trishy, 🐨♥️

Ill catch u up.. -just about to head out to a dr, and hope I can get my car/submarine through the creek.. -tis a tad wet here atm..

 

Hope its just a normal “sick”, and not bad..

 

 

Hello hello!

Miyu here .... I got a PM from Barbara Ave, I haven’t been  on BB in probably nearly 1-1/2years… I’m on my phone right now so I really can’t see much of anything it’s all so tiny,  but I’m going to come back in the next few days and write and see how everybody’s doing

 

Took my last dose of Valium  in January 2020, having been healed in six months by Kambô  frog medicine

I wrote it in my success story back then too I think

 

I’m doing really well, almost back to normal apart from some restless legs and sleep issues, but I’m happy and feel pretty good most of the time

 

It Really can and does happen !!

 

Sending lots and lots of love to the old gang, and to the new ones here to who I don’t know. Hang in there -our bodies are amazing and really do heal as we get off these dreadful drugs

 

Miyu  :smitten: :smitten:

 

Miyu!

How great to see you writing here, and to hear that it was the frog medicine that did it.

 

I continue to inch down -- but this is inspiring and I'll look up your success story.

I have recently come back here as well after bing off for a while.

Just trudging along.....

:smitten:

Wow..!! Miyu and SS, both in one day..!! The Gods smile on us..

 

Glad Barb got hold of you Miyu, much better your words than my interpretations and guesses.. 

Not to mention that hearing you are doing so well after such a hard discontinuation s golden..!!

 

SS, Im still trudging too.. -Some ups and downs, 14 months of no tapering progress (a long hold I guess), BUT under it all my body has been catching up, esp. the dreaded GI issues that have forever set my (slow) pace.. Some cracks in the depressive fatigue and motivation issues seem to be widening too.. Just coming out of a terrible month where some other stuff came up health wise, but with it came some clues to keep hope alive..

Step by step, as we do..

 

 

[[Su...]]

Hi Cant,

Sorry to hear that you continue to trudge along too.  although it hasn't affected your sense of humour.  A long hold is what it takes sometimes, although the patience that requires is of biblical proportion....  Throw in depression and GI stuff along with whatever else you've been wrangling make you one tough BB!

We'll all get there right?  I've been mostly lurking on BB for awhile as there was so little to report other than same old same old...with a ridiculous taper rate:

take one .25 Xanax, mix with 200ml of liquid (tequila for melting the stuff) take out 1ml and go down.02 of that said ml.  Yes my body recognizes if I go down more quickly.  And that's with a chaser of 5mg of Valium.  I'll be on here forever 

 

Thanks for the welcome back 

SS

[Guest [fl...]]

Oh my goodness - my window lasted less than an hour! Despair! Why!?!?

[[ho...]]

Hi - It’s nice to see some of the old timers here and read your stories.  It gives me hope.  Thank you. 

 

I am very interested in the “frog medicine” is there a link?

 

I love the sense of humor on here...the giggles are good for me 

 

Marie