The Long Hold Support Group

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Valley, I want to say again thank you for picking up this Thread, when Oscar left it and you have been a big help to many here, and long before I came to this Support Group, I had already decided to do a Long Holds and it has worked for me, No one can change how I feel about that, I do realize that some on this thread have doubts and that is pretty normal when one does not see progress, but there are some that have, and we know that when having bad sx's and trying to change to another way of tapering, the Benzo Lies come in and start playing with your thoughts and that is one of the hardest things to do, but to those who are struggling, overthinking is not your fault it is the way of the beast to fill you with doubts. If you decide that the long hold is not for you, Valley will understand, heck we all will, but for me this is my last time I will go through this, and since I have been going slow for so long and no suffering like my first two times, I am sticking to it and I will always stand up for something I believe in. To our Liza I am so glad that even though it has been tough for you, you are sticking with your hold. Proud of you Sista'.

[[sk...]]

How dare you come to this thread and tell Valley to stop scaring people!!!!!!  He is one of the most caring, truly caring, people on this forum.  He has supported so many people. You've been on this forum since June?  The purpose of THIS thread is Long Holds.  If you don't believe in long holds, go to another thread!!  There is no written instructions that pertain to each person on this forum, everyone is just trying to get by in their own way.

 

You are way out of line with your post and really not supporting anyone!!!

 

DonnaQ... you need to ease up a little bit on the attack.  Where did I ever say Valley Um was uncaring, or anything else?  Did you read anything I wrote, or just instantly go into rage mode?  Where did you take the time out to ask me to explain... or did you just jump the gun and auto-magically insert your own negative words?  I never said Valley was uncaring, unsupportive, or whatever else you said.  I simply said there's more than 1 option.  LONG HOLDS ARE NOT THE ONLY OPTION!  That's a simple fact.  For anyone to even hint that long holds are the only option would indicate that they have 1: A Doctorate in Benzo Dependance, and 2: The cold hard facts to back it up, other than just personal experience.   

 

So I've been registered to this site since June.  What's your point?  Does that mean all the sudden I'm not allowed to have an opinion?  What's the point in saying how long i've been on this site?  I'm confused. 

 

You're right though in 1 thing you said.  There are NO WRITTEN INSTRUCTIONS THAT PERTAIN TO EACH PERSON ON THIS FORUM.  So why would Valley Um have the gull to say that 'the only option is to hold'?  If there's no written instructions? 

 

I'm sure you mean well DonnaQ.  I'm not mad.  I'm disappointed that it seems you missed the entire post.  I'm also a little hurt that you decided to put words in my mouth, and get personal.  I'd never do that to anyone.  That's rude.  Why am I on the long holds support forum?  Maybe because some people on long holds don't need to be, and are just scared to press forward.  Maybe it's to help maybe that 1 single person that just needs to hear "this isn't the only option.  There is another way."  I'm sorry i've only been 'registered' on this site since June.  That does not however discredit anything I've been through, seen, talked with people, or my opinion.  I'd appreciate it if you laid off the personal attacks, and lets be supportive.   

[[Do...]]

Yes, I did read your post, over and over again before I went into my "rage".  Could not believe what I was reading.  I did not put words into your mouth.  You said he was fear mongering and spoon feeding the long holds, that IMO was a personal attack.  And again with the recent post, you attack again.

 

And yes I did see red when I read your post.  You have not been on this forum long enough to be knowledgeable about what some of these people have gone through.  That is the reason I pointed out your time on the forum.  Where is your experience in saying that long holds don't work for some?  NOTHING works the same for each and everyone has their own choice.  You have said your piece

 

Don't try to patronize me, it won't work.  And I would appreciate you stopping the personal attacks.  They are not needed or wanted.

[[sk...]]

Where is your experience in saying that long holds don't work for some?  NOTHING works the same for each and everyone has their own choice. 

 

DonnaQ that was my entire point!  Lol.  Keyword being SOME!!!!!  Holding is NOT THE ONLY OPTION!  Nor did I EVER say it wasn't an option.  I'd welcome you to check out all my posts to this site, and find one single time I said holding will never work.  I CAN show you multiple times where I've even said I may need to hold at some point. 

 

You blew my entire post out of context, took it personal, as you've even stated, 'you saw red', without even thinking what I could really be saying.  You converted it into your own way of thinking, and got personal.  It was never personal, and still isn't.

 

As far as my 'experience' on benzo's.... Well, honestly, you base my experience on my 'registered' date?  That's like me assuming you have the IQ from Donna from the tv show "90210" based on your name.  That's redundant.  It doesn't mean squat.  Nada.  I do enjoy reading Valley's posts.  A lot of good information comes from them.  I enjoy reading everything I can and soak up different options and opinions.  I cannot get onboard with 'holding is the only option' deal though.  That statement is the 'fear mongering' I said, because it's not the only option.  Try reading outside the box, maybe ask clarifying questions before jumping down someone throat next time.  You may be surprised how understanding someone can be when you respond with kind words and questions, instead of 'seeing red', and launching an attack.

 

No harm no foul.  Have a great night.

[[Va...]]

All I can say is remember what this was started for. Here is the original post by Oscar.

 

Here is a place where all those doing LONG HOLDS can hang out.

 

Post what you want, where you are at and how you feel, post anything !!!

 

 

I don't take offense very easily and just respond to other BBs based on their questions and my own experience. Other points of view are certainly welcome here. It's just nice to keep it kind, supportive and lighthearted. Thanks to all of you who make the group what it is! --V

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[glow=red,2,300]Thank you Valley. [/glow]

[[sk...]]

Valley, I'm glad you don't take offense because it was never intended to be an attack.. more of a point... but based on your earlier post, and this most recent one, in your expierence when you got down to 1.25mg, why was a long hold your only option?  Dr Ashton's work basically says that 1mg is a perfectly fine and safe jumping point... so in your expierence why did you do a long hold so low and not press forward to be benzo free?

[[He...]]

ValleyUm, Lizagal, Skittles, Be good, Gardner, and everyone else who has posted to my last inquiry,

 

I feel so badly that I seemed to have opened up a can of worms. It was not my intention to start a riff on this forum.

 

I am so very grateful to ALL of you. You have each put in your opinions. I know they are your opinions, not hard and fast facts, and you certainly are entitled to them100%.

 

Trust me, I listen to everything you have  all said and then I decide for myself that which makes the most sense in my situation.

 

 

I appreciate the help I have gotten from ALL of you, especially VallyUm, who has been so patient and supportive of me. I have learned so much from you. ( and now I know you are a "he") LOL

 

I also understand Skittles opinion and her straight forward frankness. She is just trying to show the other options besides the long hold.

 

I am so sorry that my inquiry has caused some responses that have caused bad feelings among buddies who are all trying to help me in their own way.

 

I do understand that there are many ways to go about, cutting , tapering, holding etc. to get through this withdrawal process.

And I know it is up to me to decide what to do. And you have all been so helpful.

 

Perhaps I am too quick to post every time I get confused or scared. Perhaps I need to stop and let things unfold for a couple of days before I go right to the forum boards.

 

I hate undue conflict. I hope things get straightened out. I know you all mean well. I am grateful to all of you.

 

Don't worry, I WILL figure this out. And I WILL be back again, but not too soon. It's time for me to try to settle down, take into account all that you have helped me with, and decide for myself what to do next. But thanks to all of you, it will be a most informed decision.

 

Sorry for a mess, and thankful for you all . Heathcliff 

[[He...]]

By the way, no one has scared me into doing anything. The only thing i am scared of  is Benzos!

 

PLESSE STOP HURTING EACH OTHER WITH HURTFUL WORDS!

 

Let's be SUPPORTIVE  and KIND and HELPFUL and UNDERSTANDING and PATIENT,

just like VallyUm said!

 

Heathcliff

[[sk...]]

Heathcliff, the issues had really nothing to do with your posts or questions. You didn't do anything wrong.  There are tons of options out there for you.  If you need to hold, hold. I just used 1.25 as an example. Nothing more nothing less. You did NOTHING wrong. You don't need to apologize for anything.  It's just different opinions. There's a tons of information out there, but ultimately only you know you.  If you need to hold, hold.  If you need to press forward to get closer, press forward. You gotta do what's best for you hun.  No matter what, we'll all be here to support each other.

[[be...]]

Heathcliff, I had not even read your posting, I do not come here all the time, so I do not read everything, I was just supporting Liza and so don't put undue pressure on your shoulders, it had nothing to do with your posting, because I haven't even read it. Best to you and your Journey.

[[He...]]

I take remeron on an intermittent basis, as needed. It's about once a week for insomnia, 3.75 mg.

 

What does that have to do with the way you choose to cut, taper  hold etc. ?

 

Heathcliff

[[sk...]]

Skittles--are you still taking Remeron?  If so its not a level playing field with someone who is not.  So maybe you could clarify for Heathcliff.

 

This is where it was brought up.  It really has nothing to do with the taper IMO. 

[[ly...]]

Skittles,

 

Perhaps you should go back and read through the posts on this thread from the beginning before commenting.  No one here has an agenda.  We are all just trying to help and support each other.  This group does not have a dogmatic adherence to holding.  There has been much discussion here of the alternate methods of taper, including the fact that some are paradoxical and may need to get off to get any relief. We each have our own theories and individual experience of what has helped and what has made things worse.  We discuss these, debate these and try to put our heads together.

 

I told you in another thread that if I were you I wouldn't even consider a hold.  You have done fine with your rapid cuts.  Others have not.  Many have benefited greatly by a long hold, some have not.  I don't know whether it's because of a paradoxical reaction or that the hold was not long enough or   My holds have worked.  There are very experienced people on BB who have recovered from very bad wd sxs by holding a long time.  They have gone on to have an uneventful taper and jump.  This is my goal and I'm sure the goal of all.

 

Most who come here have tried other taper methods without success.

 

You have expressed the opinion that people are simply afraid to jump and are postponing  things unnecessarily.  You have told people to jump - if not directly, then by your many, many recommendations to taper quickly and/or jump.  You urge everyone to just "change their attitude and push through" wd sxs  These type of comments/remarks worry me.  I hope your method serves you well.  We are all different.

 

My main point, however, is that you are off-base in your remarks to Valley Um.  You have not read enough of this thread.

 

I don't mean to cause anyone upset by this response.  Skittles has a very decided bent. 

 

 

[[Ha...]]

Anyone on progesterone? The reason I ask is due to heavy periods comma my doctor put me on birth control which has estrogen and progesterone and it made me a psycho mean it. So I was just wondering if anyone here has had any success on progesterone I'm on day 3 and I freak out everytime I take a pill because of the benzo withdrawal but I'm going to have withdrawals from this or it's going to mess me up even worse I've been in a way for months it seems anyway still hanging out looking for reassurance and I'm not going to die anyway you can relate to me I would really like to hear from someone happy me

[[sk...]]

You have expressed the opinion that people are simply afraid to jump and are postponing  things unnecessarily.  You have told people to jump - if not directly, then by your many, many recommendations to taper quickly and/or jump.  You urge everyone to just "change their attitude and push through" wd sxs  These type of comments/remarks worry me.  I hope your method serves you well.  We are all different.

 

My main point, however, is that you are off-base in your remarks to Valley Um.  You have not read enough of this thread.

 

I don't mean to cause anyone upset by this response.  Skittles has a very decided bent. 

 

 

 

Lynn, I don't disagree, and maybe I should go back and read all 267 other pages to get a better understanding of why long holds are the 'only option'.  I am primarily speaking towards Dr Ashton's works, since that's pretty much the only studied clinical stats that have proven results.  I never said long holds were unneeded.  I don't believe that i've ever recommended anyone do a rapid taper and jump.  I'll go back and double check though to make sure I wasn't that dumb.  I do know that i've said on a number of occasions how i'm doing my taper, and how well it's going as a different point of view... But never ever said 'this is the only way.'  That would be irresponsible.  Now if someone is hanging on at .01mg of Valium, for 3 months, that might be a little obsessive.  I'd refer to the part of Dr Ashton's works, and point to the part that says something to the effect of 'most people can tolerate 1mg quit quite well, but can taper to .5mg if needed'. 

 

As far as being positive, and changing our points of view?  Why not, honestly?  Why not have a new perspective on how we see things?  Does it work for everyone?  Probably not.  Have I gotten a lot of pm's from people telling me thank you, and it's helped them, I sure have.  There's nothing wrong with changing our points of view.  What is changing our view point of w/d a bad thing?

 

Why would the positive view worry you?  Would you rather someone obsess about every little symptoms, or would it maybe be nice to see the symptom as a form of healing?  I can appreciate your point of view.  I really can.  I also want to thank you for not sending me one of the MANY nasty pm's that i've received from posting my thoughts and questions.

 

I'm not mad at anyone really.  Sometimes people need a scape goat to beat up on to make themselves feel better.  I'm ok with being that scape goat.  I really am.  The ONLY problem I ever had with Valley's comment, as i've said over and over again, is why is a long hold 'the only option'?  I've still yet to get an answer... rather just pm's with people telling me to f-off, they hope I have a seizure, and all sorts of nasty hate mail.  I've deleted them, but seriously... I'd still like an answer to why a long hold is the 'only option'.  If it's a viable option, maybe i'm doing this all wrong.  Maybe Dr Ashton and her time tested methods are so off base, someone should do new clinicals.  Maybe something better did come along.  I don't know.  I'd just like to know why, in Valley's experience, when he was at a super low dose, did he decide a long hold was 'his only option.'

[[He...]]

VALLEYUM please give me your opinion. 

( I know there are lots of opinions out there but this time I'd like to hear your thoughts since I am responding to your last reply to me.)

 

You had said I should set my goal at a specific hold time frame and keep that goal in mind.

I had set my sights at a hold of two months.Now those two months are up.  I am certainly better although I am not totally free of sfx, but I never have been,ever!

 

Now that I am at the end of the two months, I thought I do a test. I'd try a micro taper of .01 for only five days.

 

That would be a cut of .05 (8%) after the five days ended. Then I would hold for at least three weeks to see what happens. ( total would be 26 days hold .)

 

I actually did the .01 cut so far for two days and got a ramped up parathesia side effect on the second day, but I'm not really sure if it was from the cut. (since Valium has a long half life it doesn't make sense to me that I'd get a sfx two days after two .01 cuts ). Maybe it was just because I was never totally free of parathesia ever. Actually as the day went on I did get a window and the bad parathesia had let up somewhat.n

 

I am having a window right now as I type this. And I actually went to the bookstore with my husband today!

 

So I'd like to try this micro taper for just three more days. It would put me at 1.20, down from 1.25

 

It would be like a test to see if I am ready to move on slowly or if I need to hold longer.

 

I know you are a proponent of long holds and I certainly want to do that if necessary. But I thought I'd do this "test" to see if I am ready or not to move on.

 

In your opinion, is this nuts?    I guess I should have run this by you BEFORE I STARTED IT!

 

Heathcliff

 

 

 

 

[[ly...]]

 

Skittles,

 

I guess you missed my point when I told you of the many discussions here of different/alternate taper methods and the fact that there is no dogmatic adherence to long holds.  You seem stuck on one phrase  ("only option") that was used in the post you read.  I don't think anyone here believes that long holds are always the only option.  For those who have tried other options with poor results it may be a very reasonable option - perhaps the only option if all else has failed.  I don't understand why you are so stuck on that.  Read a little bit.  And, bear in mind that this group has a name - for a reason.

 

I have no issue with positive thinking.  I believe it important to feeling well and I am very aware of what anxiety can do.  My objection was your use of changing attitude in conjunction with pushing through sxs.  It implies that the two go hand in hand or should go hand in hand.  In other words, you seem to say that if people only had a good attitude about wd they could (should) push through sxs and taper further.  I don't agree.  (btw, I have a GREAT attitude and have throughout my taper!)

 

I've read many of your posts and think that you push people or imply they are "afraid" to cut/jump.  I'll take another look.  Perhaps my memory is flawed.

[[sk...]]

 

Skittles,

 

I guess you missed my point when I told you of the many discussions here of different/alternate taper methods and the fact that there is no dogmatic adherence to long holds.  You seem stuck on one phrase  ("only option") that was used in the post you read.  I don't think anyone here believes that long holds are always the only option.  For those who have tried other options with poor results it may be a very reasonable option - perhaps the only option if all else has failed.  I don't understand why you are so stuck on that.  Read a little bit.  And, bear in mind that this group has a name - for a reason.

 

I have no issue with positive thinking.  I believe it important to feeling well and I am very aware of what anxiety can do.  My objection was your use of changing attitude in conjunction with pushing through sxs.  It implies that the two go hand in hand or should go hand in hand.  In other words, you seem to say that if people only had a good attitude about wd they could (should) push through sxs and taper further.  I don't agree.  (btw, I have a GREAT attitude and have throughout my taper!)

 

I've read many of your posts and think that you push people or imply they are "afraid" to cut/jump.  I'll take another look.  Perhaps my memory is flawed.

 

Lynn, First of all, thank you for finally answering a question i've been begging to get answered, in a round about way.  Like you said, it may be the only option to all other failed taper attempts... Makes sense here in internet land... but i'm curious as to what Doctors with clinical trials have said about long holds... Not saying there's no benefit to them, just curious. 

 

I am a little confused by one part of your response... maybe I could use a little more clarification... you said "...  the fact that there is no dogmatic adherence to long holds...." then end that same paragraph with "... bear in mind that this group has a name - for a reason."  How can one understand the difference between Support Group for Long Holds, but not advocate for them, which seems to be the general case?  I'm just having a hard time understanding the difference you are trying to make which could be completely my fault.  I think I'm so stuck on that part where Valley Um said 'only option' because there's never an 'only option'.  There's always options.  Maybe not ones we want to hear, or want to accept, but there's always options.

 

I do know of a couple times where I reference the Ashton Manual, the line where she wrote that the hardest part of 'jumping is the fear of what it will be like without benzos' or something similar to that.  I've NEVER told someone to jump.  I've never told someone to hold, cut faster, nothing.  Never told someone what to do.  I give my story, what works for me, generally follow it up with something to the effect of 'i know this won't work for everyone because everyone is different' yadda yadda yadda.... but I've never advocated for someone to go faster than they can handle, or even recommend jumping.  I've congratulated a lot of folks for jumping... and for reaching milestones.  I know those are true.  But telling someone to go faster, and jump?  Nope.  And if I have, I'd love to apologize to that person and tell them I was wrong.  If you find that, please point it out. 

 

I do advocate for a different view of withdrawal because it doesn't have to be miserable.  The symptoms don't have to be bad.  They can be fun actually if you change your view of them, in my opinion.  I don't think we need to obsess about them, or keep letting them beat us down.  I can't get onboard with that view.  I think we should respect them, but think of them as temporary, instead of letting them beat us down.  There's nothing wrong with that point of view, according to multiple doctors.  (These symptoms we are going through are typically normal)

 

But anyways, seeing how Valley Um won't answer the question, and you ended up having to, I appreciate that.  It gives me a new perspective.

 

Actually this entire ordeal has given me a new perspective.  All the hate mail,  the personal attacks, everything really... Pretty down right negative, and nasty.  (Not you Lynn or Heathcliff)  With that said, and all my pm's deleted, I wish you all great successes in your recovery. 

 

Skittles out.

[[ly...]]

 

skittles,

 

Final remarks - Ashton is the only study that I am aware of.  She states that a hold may be necessary but apparently did not allow long holds.  I know of no other "science" only anecdotes - mine included.  You base much on your experience.  You are fortunate that your wd sxs abate within a week and are not debilitating.  Others have it far worse.  You actually feel much better on lower doses - unusual on BB.

 

Valley is probably asleep.

 

I believe that I have adequately answered you.

 

This is The Long Hold Support Group and is meant for people on holds or curios about trying one, hence my reference.

 

You state that withdrawal doesn't have to be miserable and that the symptoms don't have to be bad.  I'm sure many would like you to expand on this.

 

I took your posts differently and apologize if I misinterpreted.

[[no...]]

I'm a 4 3/4 months holding until I can function--walk, drive and work. So far I've been able to do a bit of work from home--except today is horrendous--I keep hearing to wait not until you're no longer deteriorating, but that you're actually fairly functional for a couple months. Still wondering if and when I'll get there. I was cutting that small September to February Heathcliff and I crashed big time and have been holding since.

 

 

 

Liza  Thats exactly the same time frame I crashed worse than ever, and I was doing tiny cuts as well.  And my problem was I tapered 2mg way too fast I now know, after listening to ''you need to get off to heal as soon  as possible''  and stopped 2mg in 10 weeks. Then began Micro daily taper and couldn't tolerate the small cuts, the first cut of 1ml from a 100ml hit me terribly so I tried cutting just half a ml. Still too much so I ended up cutting 00.05 which is the first five tiny lines on a graduated  1ml syringes, and even that was hard going.

 

It took me 2 months face planted to cut 1ml, and in nearly a year all I managed to cut was 8ml form 200 as I added another 100mls of water as I use a whole 2mg pill rather than cut one in half in case there's more drug in one half than the other. That way I get the full dose in liquid then cut from that , anyway after struggling with tiny cuts being hell that was when I started the thread  about long holds that this group sprang up from as I had had enough of getting worse while having to hold for 3 weeks more time than I wanted too.

 

And still suffering then cutting anyway and getting more and more down each time and being housebound the whole 9 months and unable to exercise as well. While I'm still up and down during this hold, I've only stopped walking for a few days a couple of times as opposed to 9 months with shorter holds of a 2 or 3 weeks quiet often before this long hold began.  I am in no way holding out of fear of cutting but out of necessity hoping that eventually things will settle a lot more, yes I've had some good days,  some bad days, some hell days , but now I think I'm beginning to see a pattern where as before it was all one bad day running into another so it seemed. I still get the ''cut, cut, cut,'' mentality on bad days, and feel unsure about holding most day's but I felt the same while cutting and getting no where except worse .

 

So I'm still holding until the 6 months mark which wil be  sometime  next moths, and will re-evaluate then, and believe me the temptation to cut has been  almost over powering many times during this hold. But I look for the things I can do now that cutting was stopping me from doing at the time, and as I said I don't fear resuming the taper at all I am more concerned  that I may drop this hold before things have had a chance to get a lot better.

 

And last night  something was definitely happening in my brain some sort of change going on like something big was being hauled back in to place and man!! it really hurt my head for a short time and I was scared not by what was happening but the pain while it was but thank God the pain passed and I fell to sleep. So at the six months mark I will see how I feel by then although you can't put a time on things with healing as holding isn't linear nothing in linear in healing no matter how you proceed. But its just a point in time to make a  decision based on how I feel at that point, I may just carry on with the hold I I think its necessary or try a cut see how it pans out and if its not good then go back to the pre cut dose and continue holding. But no matter what I do, I do know that this hold had done me good than bad for my CNS an given it valuable repair time if nothing else, bit as insecure as I feel I'm sure there's a lot more good happened than I even know about in my body and brain. 

 

And here is the other thing that's occurred to me, had I been more ''enlightened'' not scared by well meaning advice on here, I would have tapered the 2mg that got me in to trouble over two years definitely with long hods here and there. Doing it over 10 weeks has cost me well over a ayer in suffering and lost time that could have been utilised much better with less stress and an easier  withdrawal sxs pattern as well.

 

So I'm not losing nothing at all  by doing this hold except allowing my body to recover from that too fast cut and probably gaining  a swifter route off as cutting at that rate  and what it was doing to me doesn't bare thinking about if I had continued listening to other people and not made a personal decision rather than a popular one to keep cutting no matter what as its ''normal''  to be super fkd up and disabled? Here's to more of the AHH!  days as opposed to the AAARRGGHHH!! ones for all of us which ever route  we choose that gets us there

 

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[He...]]

Hello all, a little story,  MY FEELINGS ABOUT MY TWO MONTH HOLD, long holds, micro tapers and what have you!

 

I just want to say that I am all in favor of a hold as long as necessary FOR WHAT EVER REASON A PERSON THINKS THEY NEED IT. And micro tapers and  regular tapers etc. each path works for someone!

 

I have always been a positive person. I hate quarreling and I hate confrontations. When I got accidentally addicted to Valium I was in a miserable place. I was determined to beat this thing and I tried so hard to be positive. So determined was I to get off this drug that I went too fast. Even with the most positive attitude and good intentions my side effects eventually got so bad that i just could not be positive anymore. Those who are lucky enough and strong enough to be able to skirt around bad sfx and do a fast  taper, all power to you!  I can not do it!

 

I found the LONG HOLD SUPPORT GROUP after searching and searching for someone to save me from my misery. I didn't know what to do. I hadn't realized that I had tapered FROM 7.5 mg too fast and made cuts that were too big.I WAS FINE UNTIL I HIT 1.25 mg. then all hell broke loose. I just could not cut again, my sfx were getting really really bad. I was a mess!

 

Thebuddies on the long hold support group explained what a long hold could do for me. They shared their experiences. They gave me encouragement..

I did not want to up dose!

I did not want to hold!

But after all the info and suggestions they gave me, I came to the conclusion, all by myself, that because of the place I was in then, I really had no other choice.I certainly wasn't going to jump at that point. My sfx were already out if control. Also, I certainly was not going to jump when I was at 1.25 and in that  condition. I BELIEVED  I WAS IN A PLACE, WHERE, FOR ME, HOLDING ACTUALLY was THE ONLY OPTION!

 

The info I got from the buddies on this site  really made sense. No one told me that this was my only option. But the information they gave me HELPED ME to understand that my miserable side effects were very likely from my too fast and too big cuts.

I concluded for myself that holding for an extended period of time, and to stop my taper for now, would hopefully let my central nervous system catch up with all those cuts, and hopefully I would see my bad side effects dissipate.

AND IT WORKED! My side effects have gotten so much better. I am getting Windows every evening and sometimes as early as 7:00 and they last until I go to bed.

 

So sometimes, holding is the only option, for me anyway.

That doesn't mean I like to hold or want to hold. It just means at that time I feel I had to hold.

Will I hold again?  If I have to! Will I want to? No, but I will because it works!

 

Will I try my best to make a micro taper work? You bet! Did I learn my lesson and know that even with a micro taper, I will have to go really slow and put holds in there? You bet!.

 

I believe that all kinds of holds, and all kinds of tapers, can be the  right thing for anyone depending on their situation at the time. There is no right or wrong.  For those who can taper really fast,....... .... IM JEALOUS!

 

That's why these forums are so good...so people get lots of good information from many knowledgeable people who have been there and done that. Each person can gather all the information that is out there so he/she can make the best informed decision for him/herself.

 

And people can even be unconventional and try new things,crazy or not!

 

Thanks for listening to my ramble.  :smitten: :smitten:

Heathcliff

[[no...]]

Hello all, a little story,  MY FEELINGS ABOUT MY TWO MONTH HOLD, long holds, micro tapers and what have you!

 

I just want to say that I am all in favor of a hold as long as necessary FOR WHAT EVER REASON A PERSON THINKS THEY NEED IT. And micro tapers and  regular tapers etc. each path works for someone!

 

I have always been a positive person. I hate quarreling and I hate confrontations. When I got accidentally addicted to Valium I was in a miserable place. I was determined to beat this thing and I tried so hard to be positive. So determined was I to get off this drug that I went too fast. Even with the most positive attitude and good intentions my side effects eventually got so bad that i just could not be positive anymore. Those who are lucky enough and strong enough to be able to skirt around bad sfx and do a fast  taper, all power to you!  I can not do it!

 

I found the LONG HOLD SUPPORT GROUP after searching and searching for someone to save me from my misery. I didn't know what to do. I hadn't realized that I had tapered FROM 7.5 mg too fast and made cuts that were too big.I WAS FINE UNTIL I HIT 1.25 mg. then all hell broke loose. I just could not cut again, my sfx were getting really really bad. I was a mess!

 

Thebuddies on the long hold support group explained what a long hold could do for me. They shared their experiences. They gave me encouragement..

I did not want to up dose!

I did not want to hold!

But after all the info and suggestions they gave me, I came to the conclusion, all by myself, that because of the place I was in then, I really had no other choice.I certainly wasn't going to jump at that point. My sfx were already out if control. Also, I certainly was not going to jump when I was at 1.25 and in that  condition. I BELIEVED  I WAS IN A PLACE, WHERE, FOR ME, HOLDING ACTUALLY was THE ONLY OPTION!

 

The info I got from the buddies on this site  really made sense. No one told me that this was my only option. But the information they gave me HELPED ME to understand that my miserable side effects were very likely from my too fast and too big cuts.

I concluded for myself that holding for an extended period of time, and to stop my taper for now, would hopefully let my central nervous system catch up with all those cuts, and hopefully I would see my bad side effects dissipate.

AND IT WORKED! My side effects have gotten so much better. I am getting Windows every evening and sometimes as early as 7:00 and they last until I go to bed.

 

So sometimes, holding is the only option, for me anyway.

That doesn't mean I like to hold or want to hold. It just means at that time I feel I had to hold.

Will I hold again?  If I have to! Will I want to? No, but I will because it works!

 

Will I try my best to make a micro taper work? You bet! Did I learn my lesson and know that even with a micro taper, I will have to go really slow and put holds in there? You bet!.

 

I believe that all kinds of holds, and all kinds of tapers, can be the  right thing for anyone depending on their situation at the time. There is no right or wrong.  For those who can taper really fast,....... .... IM JEALOUS!

 

That's why these forums are so good...so people get lots of good information from many knowledgeable people who have been there and done that. Each person can gather all the information that is out there so he/she can make the best informed decision for him/herself.

 

And people can even be unconventional and try new things,crazy or not!

Thanks for listening to my ramble.  :smitten: :smitten:

Heathcliff

Thats right Heathcliff I'm going to try naked dosing as well if that works, I will let every one know Those of you that have  already tried and and had good results why did you not tell the rest of us    Maybe a ''route of administration'' change is also a viable tactic, shoving the pill up your arse may work who knows? Benzos come in suppository's and drug addicts do it with pills and powders wrapped in Cigarette papers  as apparently it works the same as injecting so they get a buzz right away.

 

In USA they call it'' Parachuting'' but in UK we call it ''Shoving it up your arse'' but swallowing any drug in a Cig  paper '''Parachuting''. I know this much I may try shoving it up my arse , a pill that is, not the other P word  But I'm never going freaking parachuting in USA!!   I do not fancy jumping up anyone's butt  :laugh:

 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

 

 

 

[[be...]]

My Story is simple, I allowed my Doctor to set up a taper plan for me based on Dr.Ashtons book, or what he said he learned about tapering from her. I started at 10mg of Valium and he had everything neatly written on a script, and woe is me I followed like a babe out of the woods, never in my life I have been through such trauma, and not just once but twice, I trusted him and put my body in a state of chaos, I was close to having a stroke twice and the ER Doctors looked at my taper plan and said this is much too fast and you need to reinstate. I did twice. But I was angry and I stopped seeing this Doctor because of things he said to me in open area of his Office where everyone, staff and patients could hear. As a year or so went by, I still did not want to stay on Valium because of all the problems I had getting my script and generally feeling persecuted. So long before I found BB, I told myself I have to do this differently if I am to get off, and all I could think of was to go slow, well my first cut was big 5mg and I had no problems at all and stayed on 5mg for a long while and then started dry cutting again, I got down 2.50mg without any major problems, as I told myself that I was going to have some problems and no matter that I am a Positive person, I had to go slow or risk being ill or worse again. So in June of 2015 I literally stumbled upon BB, and I read and finally joined. I have had much support since joining and it has helped me a great deal, I knew that no matter what I was going to do it my way. Interestingly I started posting and others wanted to know how I decided to do Long Holds and not long after Oscar returned he PM'd me and grilled me on my holds and how I was doing, not long after his Post The Long Support Group was formed and I joined, because I needed a place to come and perhaps learn or support others. I have had sx's and I started using the term "blips" and that is how I term my sx's, nothing like the agony I went through before, I can function and I know that it is not over till it is over, I do not think that for sure I am going to walk off and just be healed, but I am hoping when I am done that I can not go through hell again. Honestly for me the Ashton plan was too fast and hard for My Brain, and I feel now that my Brain is catching up to all of my Holds, I am not lingering, I am going the pace that for me has helped. Frankly at this point and from what I went through I do not want a Doctor to inform me how to do a cut, he does not know how my body reacts, and for some reason they mostly want to go fast and be rid of the Valium, not for me will I go down that road again for anyone. I am my best advocate for how I will do my taper, and when I get to the lowest dose, I will go on vapors, until the end. So for me Long Holds have been a lifesaver and I am not going to be swayed away from it and I think why I do not overthink this taper, is because I was in the depths of hell twice and I now know what got me there and I am so thankful to have some control now, this is my way and it is working for me. Valley and others on this site are supportive and we are all in different places with our taper, but we embrace each other and listen and hope that we can be of help to each other, just listening helps a great deal. My Heart aches for those that are struggling and I hope everyone can someday have some Peace.  

[[Va...]]

VALLEYUM please give me your opinion. 

( I know there are lots of opinions out there but this time I'd like to hear your thoughts since I am responding to your last reply to me.)

 

You had said I should set my goal at a specific hold time frame and keep that goal in mind.

I had set my sights at a hold of two months.Now those two months are up.  I am certainly better although I am not totally free of sfx, but I never have been,ever!

 

Now that I am at the end of the two months, I thought I do a test. I'd try a micro taper of .01 for only five days.

 

That would be a cut of .05 (8%) after the five days ended. Then I would hold for at least three weeks to see what happens. ( total would be 26 days hold .)

 

I actually did the .01 cut so far for two days and got a ramped up parathesia side effect on the second day, but I'm not really sure if it was from the cut. (since Valium has a long half life it doesn't make sense to me that I'd get a sfx two days after two .01 cuts ). Maybe it was just because I was never totally free of parathesia ever. Actually as the day went on I did get a window and the bad parathesia had let up somewhat.n

 

I am having a window right now as I type this. And I actually went to the bookstore with my husband today!

 

So I'd like to try this micro taper for just three more days. It would put me at 1.20, down from 1.25

 

It would be like a test to see if I am ready to move on slowly or if I need to hold longer.

 

I know you are a proponent of long holds and I certainly want to do that if necessary. But I thought I'd do this "test" to see if I am ready or not to move on.

 

In your opinion, is this nuts?    I guess I should have run this by you BEFORE I STARTED IT!

 

Heathcliff

Sorry for the late response. I was in bed lol. My daughter has to get her tonsils out this morning. In answer to your question, my thoughts are that if you feel good enough to try a small test cut, by all means try it  and see how your body reacts. If you get a large uptick in sxs, holding longer would most likely be beneficial.  If you do fine with the cut, you are probably doing the right thing by continuing. I try to only recommend holds when sxs are unbearable and interfere with life.  The key is finding the right taper rate to keep most sxs in check so they don't interfere with life. 

 

In answer to an earlier question about it being the only option I forgot to add the IMO which was sloppy as I don't usually speak in absolutes so hopefully (and I think most who know me do) those who read my posts understand it's just my own opinion. My opinion is that if you have destabilized your CNS to the point that sxs are unbearable, only time will allow your CNS to recover.

 

The reason I don't take offense is I was initially anti hold when I first joined BB and encouraged others not to hold too long lol. A verteran here helped me see my flawed thinking and after becoming nearly bed bound from an overly aggressive taper, I found this group, felt at home here and no longer had a desire to push through sxs and risk a long recovery at the jump. I have spent hours doing research on long holds and see them as hope for those who are in a really bad way. I have stated many times if a person is a short time user or doing fine with there taper, a hold would definitely not be recommended. I simply view the hold as a harm reduction technique and just another tool to use in getting off as we can't hold forever lol. I still do believe that if one is suffering with intolerable sxs, time is the thing that will pull them out if they have the patience to do it.

 

Hope you continue to see improvement!  --V