The Long Hold Support Group

[[no...]]

Happy to say a good thing has developed..at least for today. My windows are still coming every evening from about 8 or 9:00 and staying with me until bedtime.

AND.....

Today my parathesia went away from about 1:30 in the afternoon and stayed away all day and into the night! Amazing! I actually felt like ME again! NORMAL!

I wonder what will happen tomorrow?

I know it could all come back, maybe it's just a big window. But it makes me happy.  I am sure glad that ValleyUm convinced me to keep holding.  (even though I nagged her and questioned her and was a real pain for the past few weeks.)

Now I am sure my brain is healing and my hold is the right thing to do.

I'm still holding at 50 days. THANK YOU  VALLEYUM, THANKYOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! :smitten: :smitten:

 

 

Hi Heathcliff  Congrats on your windows, Valleyum is A guy or at least he was last time he looked 

 

Love Nova xxx :smitten:

[[be...]]

Heathcliff that is wonderful news, be sure to bookmark or save to doc your good news, so when you start thinking it is not working or doubts crept up you can save yourself some trying hair pulling time, and continue to live your life the best you can. It feels good doesn't it to get a glance at "NORMAL"again. Hey "Valleygirl" how you doing today. the last I looked my Turtle was still Female.  

[[no...]]

Heathcliff that is wonderful news, be sure to bookmark or save to doc your good news, so when you start thinking it is not working or doubts crept up you can save yourself some trying hair pulling time, and continue to live your life the best you can. It feels good doesn't it to get a glance at "NORMAL"again. Hey "Valleygirl" how you doing today. the last I looked my Turtle was still Female.

Heh! Heh! heh!

[[ly...]]

 

"Valleygirl"  :laugh:

[[ba...]]

Bare with my insecurity. My doses do not give me much relief. I have been over this with you folks a few times. It makes me panic that I am doing it wrong, and that I don't know what the heck I am doing. Experiencing sxs all day, not much sleep.

 

All of you have said this is w/d, and to hold until my CNS catches up. Yesturday I stayed on schedule, will do the same today.

 

Just because I am panicking, I need reassurance. My panic inclination is to cut. Yet, you have all told me that that is a symptom in and of itself.

 

Just need to know I'm not doing this all wrong, and that holding is the way to deal with this. I am panicked about it. As long as I am confident that I am doing the right thing, I can squash the panic. I have been looking at doses as something I take to stabilize my cns, not something that will give me relief.

 

Yet, last night, I started to panic that I am doing this wrong, and that panic is with me this morning, as my am dose has been so ineffective, as usual.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[[Va...]]

 

"Valleygirl"  :laugh:

I could change my username lol. 

[[Va...]]

Bare with my insecurity. My doses do not give me much relief. I have been over this with you folks a few times. It makes me panic that I am doing it wrong, and that I don't know what the heck I am doing. Experiencing sxs all day, not much sleep.

 

All of you have said this is w/d, and to hold until my CNS catches up. Yesturday I stayed on schedule, will do the same today.

 

Just because I am panicking, I need reassurance. My panic inclination is to cut. Yet, you have all told me that that is a symptom in and of itself.

 

Just need to know I'm not doing this all wrong, and that holding is the way to deal with this. I am panicked about it. As long as I am confident that I am doing the right thing, I can squash the panic. I have been looking at doses as something I take to stabilize my cns, not something that will give me relief.

 

Yet, last night, I started to panic that I am doing this wrong, and that panic is with me this morning, as my am dose has been so ineffective, as usual.

 

Thanks!

Hi Baddove. Here are some points about withdrawal and what it does to you.

 

"Also, one thing I've noticed with benzo tapering, is that when I'm going a bit too fast I tend to get into this "rush rush hurry go faster get off this stuff" frame of mind, which tends to cause me to actually cut even faster. I've posted about this here and there and found other people are having the same thing. Something about the anxiety, the way the withdrawal activates our limbic system, something like that, seems to cause us to feel a kind of urgency that actually makes us do the opposite of what we need to do at that point."

 

"A sense of feeling panicked and like you need to rush and do something-something-anything-anything about your withdrawal symptoms is actually a classic symptom of withdrawal itself. It's very important to learn to resist that urge. The best thing you can do is usually nothing at all, just support your body's healing by good diet, gentle exercise, meditative breathing if possible, and a regular schedule of sleep/wake/eat etc. "

 

Try to keep everything the same and let your body get used to the routine and you should be fine. How long it takes you to get stable depends on how bad your CNS was shocked. Hope you feel better soon.  --V

[[ba...]]

Thank you.

[[He...]]

Whoops. I didn't know VallyUm was a guy! Thanks for letting me know, NOVA.

Sorry VallyUm. Hope I did not offend you. It doesn't matter to me if you are male or female. I just want to thank you for all your support!

 

This morning I woke up feeling kind of badly again. But I attribute that to about only 1 1/2 - 2 hours of sleep.

I think I'll have to take the remeron tonight. I only take it about once every 6, 7, or 8 days( when my sleep goes down below  3 hours for two days in a row.

 

But after yesterday's really good day, day 49 ( first one that was that good in about 5 months!!!!) I am sure  that I am on the right track with my hold. But even more so, with VallyUms constant support, I will no longer question that I am doing the right thing. This hold has enabled me to get the relief I so needed (even for one day!) and it has proven to me that the hold is the right thing to do. I just have to remember that there will still be plenty of bad days,ugh! But I AM DOING THE RIGHT THING!  VallyUm was right! 

 

Now all I have to do is get good sleep, and wait this thing out with courage and patience.. Not easy at all but I will do my best. ( I hope I don't freak out again tomorrow!) LOL :idiot

 

And, Yes, I will document this and save it so I can read it again when I am in dispair. Thanks for the suggestion.

And thanks to all you other buddies on this support group too, for all of your support.

Heathcliff

 

[[He...]]

Hi Bad Dove,

I am pretty new here but I saw your post and thought I'd chime in.

 

I have been where you are with all kinds of insecurities, fears, panics,etc. never knew what to do and even when I decided what was the correct thing to do, I would change my mind AGAIN!

I can not tell you how many times I questioned a long hold and bothered ValleyUm incessantly!

 

It was only after getting horrible side effects, after a very big cut in too little time, and getting no relief from the Valium dose I am at (1.25mg)  that I found out about a long hold. I held for about 42 days with nothing happening..no relief still. So I kept questioning myself.am I doing the right thing? VallyUm kept reassuring me. But it wasn't until on day 43 that I actually started to get Windows every day. And yesterday. Day 49 ? I actually saw my parathesia ( incessant shakes and inner vibrations and trembles) go away at 1:30 in the afternoon and stay away all day! All I had was some muscle weakness in my buttocks! LOL

 

SO I KNOW HOW SCARED YOU ARE.  It took the relief that I finally got and actually experienced MYSELF, to convince me that the long hold was indeed the right thing to do. No matter how many buddies agreed with the long hold, I just was too scared to relax and wait for the promised relief to come. But I am now glad I did!

I know you are suffering and I feel badly for you. But if you need another person to help you out, maybe my experience will help. But I wouldn't hesitate to listen to ValleyUm's ideas and the rest of the buddies that encourage long holds.

Of course,here is the the truth, that only you know your own body and what is right for you.  But I sincerely know now that holding was the right thing for me to do, even if I questioned it and questioned it all through the hold until I EXPERIENCED the lessened and almost disappearance of some side effects MYSELF.

 

I will NEVER CUT BIG AGAIN. I WILL NEVER TAPER without holding between cuts for at least two weeks, and I will listen to my body and not cut again until any new side effects from a previous taper go away or diminish greatly. I've learned that you can not rush your brain to heal!

 

( I am still holding and may hold even longer than my original plan of a two week hold. I don't know what tomorrow will bring, if bad days still come, I'll just have to deal with them. And  if I have to hold longer.. I will, because it IS WORKING!

 

Good luck! I hope my story will give you courage and help you somewhat. Listen to your body,be brave. And do what you think best for you.

 

Heathcliff, far from healed, feeling bad on many days but good on others, not giving up!

[[Va...]]

Whoops. I didn't know VallyUm was a guy! Thanks for letting me know, NOVA.

Sorry VallyUm. Hope I did not offend you. It doesn't matter to me if you are male or female. I just want to thank you for all your support!

 

This morning I woke up feeling kind of badly again. But I attribute that to about only 1 1/2 - 2 hours of sleep.

I think I'll have to take the remeron tonight. I only take it about once every 6, 7, or 8 days( when my sleep goes down below  3 hours for two days in a row.

 

But after yesterday's really good day, day 49 ( first one that was that good in about 5 months!!!!) I am sure  that I am on the right track with my hold. But even more so, with VallyUms constant support, I will no longer question that I am doing the right thing. This hold has enabled me to get the relief I so needed (even for one day!) and it has proven to me that the hold is the right thing to do. I just have to remember that there will still be plenty of bad days,ugh! But I AM DOING THE RIGHT THING!  VallyUm was right! 

 

Now all I have to do is get good sleep, and wait this thing out with courage and patience.. Not easy at all but I will do my best. ( I hope I don't freak out again tomorrow!) LOL :idiot

 

And, Yes, I will document this and save it so I can read it again when I am in dispair. Thanks for the suggestion.

And thanks to all you other buddies on this support group too, for all of your support.

Heathcliff

[[ba...]]

Thank you, Heathcliff. I have a question. As the day goes along, each dose feels worse. This makes me think the (1) mg are too big, and I want to shave them down. Did your day get worse as it went along?

 

Prior to tapering,if a specific dose hit me so hard, and made feel worse, I would cut the next one down, and it would not be so intense.

 

Dose 2 and 3 absolutely destroy me. Once they hit, I am worse than when I took my dose, and it's agony.

 

In the old days, I would get easier as the day went on, now, that cycle has reversed itself. Consequently, I am panicking, as I stated.

 

Your post is very helpful.

 

 

Thanks.

[[He...]]

Hi Bad Dove,

Not sure what you mean.

My daily side effects are never changed by my dose. I take it three times a day and I don't feel any different when I take it. It has no effect except to keep me in a safe place while I am carefully tapering down to eventually get off the drug with little side effects.

 

As far as during my hold, sometimes my days during the hold got much worse! That's what scared me...like what's going on? But then I remembered that healing is not linear. There are ups and downs all along  a hold and even while one tapers. But if you hold long enough, it will get much better because you are giving your brain enough time to catch up with your cuts on your taper.

 

I got some very bad sideeffects that got worse during my hold before they got better. And even now, like yesterday I had the best day ever, and today I am feeling kind of badly again.

 

It's probably because I cut to much all the way from the beginning of my taper. It's going to take some time for brain to catch up with my cuts. So there is nothing I can do except ride the horrible waves.

Cutting now would just put my brain and body into a worse place with more bad side effects.

 

Does that help?

 

[[ba...]]

To be specific, I take 4 (1 mg) doses, with 2-3 (.25) bumps during dose 1 and 2, 5 hours apart. 6 hours from dose 3 to my final dose, 4.

 

Here is what happens. Dose 1 does not give me much relief until 2 hours in, at the point I can get up. It does not slam me, but I am not able to engage until about 2 hours in.

 

Dose 2 usually hits, exacerbating my sxs and making them much worse. Right at 38 minutes, pretty much, I get a wham of horrid effects, which only increase, and I feel worse than when I took the dose. It is usually agony, and I have to lie down to get through it. At the end, it tends to stabilize, and I don't feel as horrid.

 

If dose 2 is not so ugly, I go ride my bike to get through it.

 

Dose 3 also usually hits nasty, albeit not as incredibly overwhelming as dose 2, same cycle, 38 minutes in, here comes a slam.

 

By the time dose 3 is petering out, I get the calmest part of my day. It's not great, but I can usually read or work on things.

 

Dose 4 I am able to stretch to 6 hours without any ill effects, so I do. It can bite me as well, but by then I will have my seroquel, which will give me 2-4 hours of sleep. I have tried the 6 hour wait on doses 1 and 2, disaster.

 

 

This is why I feel like I don't know what I am doing, and I am screwing up. I did try skipping the (.25) bumps, that made the rebound much faster, and I was a hot mess beyond the norm when it came to dose, and the subsequent doses felt like nothing.

 

The feeling of nothing was quite bad, but not the same as the feeling of increased sxs I am experiencing.

 

I don't believe I need to reduce my daily tally, I know it's too soon.

But, why do those doses increase my agony? I am thinking they are too large, I am at a loss.

 

I did cut down for about 5 days, shaving the (1) mg down, it did not go well. I did not get slammed with those doses, but cumulatively, I found myself in a more intense withdraw.

 

I am going to take dose 3 in 20 minutes, I shaved it just a bit. I want to see if it feels the same, better, or worse.

 

I am thinking perhaps just 1 dose a day should be shaved? I can't keep going like this, and feel like I am creating the problem with that (1) mg dose, it's wrong. Question is, what to do about it? Or, should it be bigger? I am clueless.

 

At one taper some time back, I cut my dose and took it 5 times a day, I kept climbing up in dosage, so went back to 4 major doses a day with 3 bumps to equal 4.75

 

I have been tapering in one way or another for a couple of months, and hit the wall each time. At this point, if I dose before 5 hours, it feels awful, so I know I need to stay at 5 hours between doses.

 

I am just perplexed by the agony doses 2 and 3 give me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

Dear Buddies,

I had to up dose recently as my Mother was dying. She has recovered a little and is in the final stages of chronic heart failure. I have decided to hold now until she passes. It could be a long time or a short time, I have no idea but I am back (on and off) in my family home with siblings and drama and stress again. This is not a situation I can avoid as my Mother and sister need my help. I am doing my best, finding it hard but trying to stay grounded.

 

I am back in my own home this week, tired and in need of support. Hubby is home on a week's holiday. I planned to go away for day trips etc. I feel guilty and wrong that I don't want to do anything, I just want calm. It is a bit unfair to hubby. I am doing my best but finding it hard this week.

 

The up dose to 4 mg helped a lot with sleep difficulties when in my family home. There is no point in cutting below 4 mg while in this difficult time. I will hold. I am minus 26 mg Valium. I have to focus on what I have done in the past 2 years. If it takes another year to cut 4 mgs, I don't mind. I dose morning and evening.

 

Love to all buddies,

Moya XXX

[[be...]]

Hang in there Moya, you have been through a lot recently and with the taper too you did the right thing to up dose and right now is Moya time, you need time to rest and regroup, a Soul can only take so much and you My Friend have been bombarded. We are all here for you and understand what you are going through. Hang tight tomorrow is another day and we know how things can change on a dime. And a Big Congrats on leaving 26mg of Valium in the dust, way to go. Rest my Friend and soon you will be doing your thing. HugsXXX :smitten: 

[[Va...]]

To be specific, I take 4 (1 mg) doses, with 2-3 (.25) bumps during dose 1 and 2, 5 hours apart. 6 hours from dose 3 to my final dose, 4.

 

Here is what happens. Dose 1 does not give me much relief until 2 hours in, at the point I can get up. It does not slam me, but I am not able to engage until about 2 hours in.

 

Dose 2 usually hits, exacerbating my sxs and making them much worse. Right at 38 minutes, pretty much, I get a wham of horrid effects, which only increase, and I feel worse than when I took the dose. It is usually agony, and I have to lie down to get through it. At the end, it tends to stabilize, and I don't feel as horrid.

 

If dose 2 is not so ugly, I go ride my bike to get through it.

 

Dose 3 also usually hits nasty, albeit not as incredibly overwhelming as dose 2, same cycle, 38 minutes in, here comes a slam.

 

By the time dose 3 is petering out, I get the calmest part of my day. It's not great, but I can usually read or work on things.

 

Dose 4 I am able to stretch to 6 hours without any ill effects, so I do. It can bite me as well, but by then I will have my seroquel, which will give me 2-4 hours of sleep. I have tried the 6 hour wait on doses 1 and 2, disaster.

 

 

This is why I feel like I don't know what I am doing, and I am screwing up. I did try skipping the (.25) bumps, that made the rebound much faster, and I was a hot mess beyond the norm when it came to dose, and the subsequent doses felt like nothing.

 

The feeling of nothing was quite bad, but not the same as the feeling of increased sxs I am experiencing.

 

I don't believe I need to reduce my daily tally, I know it's too soon.

But, why do those doses increase my agony? I am thinking they are too large, I am at a loss.

 

I did cut down for about 5 days, shaving the (1) mg down, it did not go well. I did not get slammed with those doses, but cumulatively, I found myself in a more intense withdraw.

 

I am going to take dose 3 in 20 minutes, I shaved it just a bit. I want to see if it feels the same, better, or worse.

 

I am thinking perhaps just 1 dose a day should be shaved? I can't keep going like this, and feel like I am creating the problem with that (1) mg dose, it's wrong. Question is, what to do about it? Or, should it be bigger? I am clueless.

 

At one taper some time back, I cut my dose and took it 5 times a day, I kept climbing up in dosage, so went back to 4 major doses a day with 3 bumps to equal 4.75

 

I have been tapering in one way or another for a couple of months, and hit the wall each time. At this point, if I dose before 5 hours, it feels awful, so I know I need to stay at 5 hours between doses.

 

I am just perplexed by the agony doses 2 and 3 give me.

Hi Baddove. I just noticed you take Seroquel. It very well may be exacerbating your benzo withdrawal. The side effect profile for it is terrible. Just trying to help you rule out any other factors.  --V

[[Va...]]

Dear Buddies,

I had to up dose recently as my Mother was dying. She has recovered a little and is in the final stages of chronic heart failure. I have decided to hold now until she passes. It could be a long time or a short time, I have no idea but I am back (on and off) in my family home with siblings and drama and stress again. This is not a situation I can avoid as my Mother and sister need my help. I am doing my best, finding it hard but trying to stay grounded.

 

I am back in my own home this week, tired and in need of support. Hubby is home on a week's holiday. I planned to go away for day trips etc. I feel guilty and wrong that I don't want to do anything, I just want calm. It is a bit unfair to hubby. I am doing my best but finding it hard this week.

 

The up dose to 4 mg helped a lot with sleep difficulties when in my family home. There is no point in cutting below 4 mg while in this difficult time. I will hold. I am minus 26 mg Valium. I have to focus on what I have done in the past 2 years. If it takes another year to cut 4 mgs, I don't mind. I dose morning and evening.

 

Love to all buddies,

Moya XXX

Sending best wishes Moyà. You have done so well at cutting down to a low dose! I know you'll be fine by listening to your body. Sorry for the external stress in your life right now. --V

[[He...]]

Hi Moyà,

I am so sorry that you are going through this most difficult time. I agree with the other buddies here. Dont worry about your tapering right now. Just hold where you are as you stated you were going to do.

 

When things in your life have stabilized you will know when it is time to start your taper again. I know you want to be there for your mom. But you deserve to take at least a small part of your life to take care of yourself! Even at this difficult time.

  I can't even imagine getting from 30 mgs of Valium down to 4. You are amazing. There's plenty of time in th future to continue your quest.

Take care  be strong. And things will straighten out one way or another.

Heathcliff

[[He...]]

Hello again Bad Dove,

I just looked at your profile signature and I realize that you are tapering from Xanax.

I don't know much about Xanax but I do know that it does  not have a long half life. Doesn't it leave a persons system after only  a few hours? Could that be causing your problem?

 

Dr. Heather Ashton has a tapering schedule that encourages people to switch over to Valium when tapering Xanax because it is a much"kinder" drug  for the purpose of tapering  off Xanax and other benzodiazapams. That's because  Vallium has a long half life.

 

Have you read Heather Ashton's manual? It is easily found on-line. Just type in her name.

I wouldn't go as fast as she suggests with a taper, but I have seen that many people on this forum have switched to Valium from other drugs, just to have a much easier taper.

Do you see doctor who could help you switch to Valium?

Just a suggestion. I'm sure you know what s best for you. Good luck. Wish I knew more so I could  help you more.

Heathcliff

[[He...]]

Hell everyone,

 

I just got back from a visit with an addiction specialist.

She validated very thing I told her I was doing...long hold and all!

She explained how normal it is to have withdrawal side effects that come and go at will, ramp up one day and subside the next day, and then just start over again. She also talked about the many many different side effects and how everyone has different ones. She said its normal to get discouraged.

And she said if it takes a year or longer, just keep your goal in mind and you will get there when your body is ready! I had to explain the term Windows, but she knew what they were and she said, Yes they do come when you give your central nervous system time to adjust with a hold. A hold also will help bad sfx to eas up.

She said I should hold as long as I felt I needed to! And I should NOT go by a calendar. I should go by how I feel.

 

What a good visit and discussion I had with her!

 

Another validation of a hold for as long as necessary. I WONDER WHERE I HEARD THAT BFORE! Is there egg on my face?

 

Too bad she can't make my side effects disappear!

 

Woo Hoo!

 

PS still bad parathesia in morning BUT.....window today at about 3:00 and still there! Feeling almost normal again this afternoon and evening.

 

Heathcliff.

[[ly...]]

 

 

Great news Heathcliff!    The whole thing really is common sense isn't it?  I don't know why anyone would put themselves through a miserable time if they could avoid it.  Why should there be a calendar?  What difference does it make if a taper takes 6 months or 16 months or 26 months?

 

(was your greeting "Hell everyone.." a freudian slip??? )

[[an...]]

Heathcliff,

 

I am happy to hear you are in a window. They should become much more frequent the longer you hold. 

 

Lynn, I agree. It doesn't matter to me how long it takes to taper, as long as I can function and live life.  I had to up dose a bit last month, but I am glad I did as I am now feeling so much better.  I should have done it sooner, because I spent most of my 6 week vacation feeling horrible. 

 

Peace and healing to all.

Anne

[[be...]]

Heathcliff,

 

I am happy to hear you are in a window. They should become much more frequent the longer you hold. 

 

Lynn, I agree. It doesn't matter to me how long it takes to taper, as long as I can function and live life.  I had to up dose a bit last month, but I am glad I did as I am now feeling so much better.  I should have done it sooner, because I spent most of my 6 week vacation feeling horrible. 

 

Peace and healing to all.

Anne

[glow=red,2,300]Ditto  [/glow]

[[ly...]]

Baddove,

 

I don't have any answers for you.  Maybe you should put your post out on the WD Support Forum and see if people have some ideas as to why you are being affected so badly after dosing.