How to ACTUALLY dissolve klonopin in alcohol?

[[Re...]]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not waiting at all between reductions, kinda let my body dictate how it goes, and so far its been really smooth,  So 1ML everday = a 0.01 mg reduction (in total across the 2 doses) everyday... ... in any eventuality[that hopefully never comes], my plan is roll back to what i was taking 2-3 days ago's amount and hold for a week at least until stable again...

[[sl...]]

Okay! You're pretty good at coming up with your own approaches to this!

I'm wishing you the best; I hope it continues to go smoothly for you.

Keep us posted. 

[[Re...]]

Slow can you help me please... I'm struggling with the simplest of math...

 

I realize I can eliminate most of the time I'm wasting, by making at least 5mg at a time with 5ml ethanol.

 

What I'm struggling with is: I want to do dillute it down to 500ml of water, but how much water do I need in order to get this all to like a 1mg pill : 100 water solution...

 

if i can figure this out then I can just take that 500ml beaker and pour into 2 graduated cylinders I have and put in the daily amount bottle them up into the 2 bottles, and keep going, and make 5 day's doses in like 1/4th of the time I normally take with this discard method....

 

I also noticed yal chatting with some older folks , might I suggest you post some video links for these folks, they might not have the technical prowess to achieve what we are doing, heck, I can't do simple math right now... theres 2 that actually brought me to this forum somehow magically:

(obviously we know water doesnt dissolve k, but for her it worked for her A)

and this one

 

 

If my math powers arent failing me (actually saw this cheat sheet https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZWya4iQvak5xRVu8ezFvEdaCNs42WHxe/view)

 

 

It would be 5mg / 500(495 water/5ml solution) = 0.01 (ml to mg amount) then divide again by dose I should take for that day for example .36mg / .01 = 36ML would be the amount of solution to pour into cylinder (so i can measure it before bottling)... seems like I'm still at that 1:100 I was at before huh

[[sl...]]

RexV86 I'm happy to help.

 

It sounds like you're recognizing the benefits of making a concentrate, and I suggest using this concentrate to make your daily dilutions. I think the 1mg/ml concentrate can be made and stored in the refrigerator as long as needed (months probably). The "ethanol" you're referring to using would need to be an alcohol with at least 60% ethanol; this concentration of ethanol has been proven to hold a maximum of 2.64mg/ml clonazepam, so I think that should give you a decent margin of error.

 

My suggestion is to make a 1mg/1ml solution using 120+ proof ethanol, and store this in the refrigerator in a glass container; maybe start with a small batch, but you could scale this up as much as you want. An example would be: 20mg of clonazepam in 20ml of 120+ proof ethanol; this should be 20 days of 1mg doses.

 

When you want to mix your daily doses, I suggest taking a 1ml oral syringe with 100 gradations, shaking the concentrate and withdrawing the ml you need for your daily elimination process (1ml for 1mg, it sounds like from your post), dispense this in your water measuring vessel and dilute the concentrate to 100ml if that's what you're wanting. Then stir, take your discard amount from the middle of the volume of liquid, divide it in half (your two doses), and you're done. No waiting.

 

Would this approach meet your needs?

[[Re...]]

yeah for sure im using 151 (everclear)...

 

i wish i could just take it directly from the glass vials with that 1ml syringe, but it would be really tough to get 0.036ml in a precise measurement in a syringe...  hence the dillution...

 

I have glass vials that can hold up to 10ml, but I mention doing 5ml/mg because my beaker only goes to 500ml so the math would be simpler...

but i could make a couple batches at least save time on the dissolve process... and there would be no discard,, i would take that 500ml and pour in 36ml in 2 graduated cylinders for day 1, 35.5 for day 2, 35 for day 3... and see how many bottles i can fill like that.. i dont know how long those solutions would last though... so maybe it might be better to do something more concentrated... idk.. lol.. so many options....

 

maybe i could do 10ml everclear /10 1mg k pills.. add 90ml water... and then take 3.6ml x2, then 3.55 day 2, 3.5 day 3... again so many options lol

 

i see none of this is really what you said, but i want to make at least a few days in advance, so i dont have to scurry everyday to make doses.. at least have a few days doses all ready to go in the fridge... right now i keep 4 days doses (so 36ml for example) in 2 separate bottles(8 total for 4 days)...

 

 

[[sl...]]

I understand. I was trying to save you the waiting step, but still support you in using the dilution and discard methods that you're familiar with. I see why you'd want to do the dilution and everything on the same day, and just have it over with and in jars in the fridge.

 

Yes, I agree the easiest option would be to pull directly from a concentrated liquid with a 1ml syringe. This is what I do, and it's a breeze. I feel like I already told you my method already; it's also described in my signature link; the key for me is taking most of my dose as tablet (or tablet pieces), and only titrating a small liquid portion where 1ml = 1/4 tablet.

 

I know you have two doses, and each is less than 1x 0.5mg tablet. If you wanted to reduce them both concurrently, with my method you'd make a 0.125ml/mg liquid solution, and at each dose you'd take 3/4 of a tablet (0.375mg), and the remainder from the liquid solution which can be easily titrated down to zero, at any desired reduction rate. Once you get to zero liquid and thus 0.375mg per dose, you'd then cut each dose down to 0.25mg, and take the remaining 1/4 tablet again as liquid and again titrate the liquid to zero. With 100 gradations on a 1ml oral syringe, this method is functional for a safe DMT down to a total daily dose of 0.25mg (after which a more dilute liquid is better, as well as smaller tablets). This 0.125mg/ml solution requires only a 30% ethanol solution, so the daily ethanol consumption is very small.

 

Does this interest you?

[[Ba...]]

Quote from: slownsteady on May 03, 2021, 12:31:08 am

I'm always a little surprised when people want me to post; I guess I have low self-esteem. Thanks for welcoming me here.

 

I am really enjoying this thread on a variety of levels. There is insight and experience plus humour, levity with action on the side. I was also moved by the comment above. I have noticed that the hypersensitivity of being in benzo w/d has made me particularly open to a feeling of being constantly judged by others.

 

I have so many memories going round and round confirming what a low-life my withdrawing self would like me to see myself as I am oversensitive to everything. At some remote level in my damaged ego, I figure that if I post something, there is a committee of people discussing what a pain in the arse I am. I can hear them all agreeing that this place was so much better before I came along and ruined it with all my nonsense. The last time I was this painfully self-aware was as an adolescent, and one of the few pleasures in growing old is that much of that noise dies down. Until you try giving up benzos, that it. Unfortunately, my hair has remained grey and my crow's feet deep, but mentally I am as self-conscious as a fourteen-year-old might be wearing nothing but swimming trunks in the middle of a church service. I am completely bonkers.

[[Re...]]

lmao Bancha inserting some random post from Slow n Steady. But dude.. I feel you... im 35 now and I'm more self consciousness now than I was as a teen, except not as self-doubtful...

 

One thing that helped me a lot is that book (i didnt read it just watched the netflix film version) The Secret... it's opened up so many doors in my life.. I used to be like oh pity me why can't I get a job and this and that, and switched one day to just being grateful and like thinking, someway, somehow, things will just work out and I'm thankful for where I am now, I think in less than a week I got a job and have been riding this gratefulness thing all the way. I think basically what you can take from that is that whatever you believe, ends up being true... and so its hard to break out of what we see ourselves as, and what we want to see ourselves as... but try everyday a little more and Imagine yourself the way you want to be seen and living your life, and eventually you will wake up one day to see you are that, and then you'll have a new challenge to imagine and new goals to reach...

 

When I hit benzo wds, it was like that all over again, but I just kept visualizing myself being better, (and with 4 days without sleep you know how hard that is) but I just knew, I know I will be better and rid of this shit... Our minds are much more powerful than we are ever taught, its literally "the secret"...

 

I don't know if you needed to hear that, if not just ignore me... but yeah... stay positive, you, and others, will find a way through and out of this benzo stuff... just keep trying(I know you already have your method).. mine is working right now, I'm just making the 5ml solution , mix it to 495/ then 2 graduated cylinders to dose out 7 days worth of meds for the fridge, i Don't wanna get caught up with too many possibilities and this is working for me, I'm now at .33mg x2 today thankfully... I'm taking it Slow N Steady! Cheers bud!

 

and thanks everyone who chimed in as well...!

 

some additional resource: I have an app called Gratitude which is free and helps to stay positive, another one called Breathe also free, helps me to relax during the day, I used TenPercent(there was a 30 day free trial, but its paid) a lot to try and help me get to sleep but I dont use it anymore, and during 4 days of insomnia with benzo wds there was no miracle it could do, but I think listening to the sleep guides helped me a bit, sometimes I remember the things they said....

 

[[sl...]]

Thanks for sharing your insights RexV86 about mental health and choosing our thoughts and narratives. I have forgotten and remembered this "secret" so many times I can't count.

 

Positive affirmations help me, but I find they're especially helpful as "felt" affirmations; something I learned from Abraham-Hicks and which is repeated in Joe Dispenza's books on using the placebo effect for healing. Basically, I try to feel the way I want to live, for example, as "I love myself fully, just the way I am". What would that feel like? I get into the feeling, imagining myself now, accepting myself fully... and that's it. The work is done. Rinse and repeat! I live in incredible abundance, and yeah, I'm not here on Earth to just sit around and sip sun-tea, but it's a good life and my gratitude only makes it better.

 

I find it's rare when this important mental perspective is encouraged by medical professionals. I want and accept medical help if it's absolutely necessary, but healing seems to be way beyond just chemistry. It's not just supplements, or medicines, or diet. Something far more significant, I think, is between healthy people and unhealthy people, and I suspect the only obstacle may be a shift in perspective.

 

Keep rocking your method RexV86!

I'm so glad you're making progress and feeling confident. 

[[Re...]]

 

Positive affirmations help me, but I find they're especially helpful as "felt" affirmations; something I learned from Abraham-Hicks and which is repeated in Joe Dispenza's books on using the placebo effect for healing. Basically, I try to feel the way I want to live, for example, as "I love myself fully, just the way I am". What would that feel like? I get into the feeling, imagining myself now, accepting myself fully... and that's it. The work is done. Rinse and repeat! I live in incredible abundance, and yeah, I'm not here on Earth to just sit around and sip sun-tea, but it's a good life and my gratitude only makes it better.

 

I find it's rare when this important mental perspective is encouraged by medical professionals. I want and accept medical help if it's absolutely necessary, but healing seems to be way beyond just chemistry. It's not just supplements, or medicines, or diet. Something far more significant, I think, is between healthy people and unhealthy people, and I suspect the only obstacle may be a shift in perspective.

 

Keep rocking your method RexV86!

I'm so glad you're making progress and feeling confident. 

 

 

Yes this is often forgotten by myself, what you said and glad you reminded me: FELT, feeling great, feeling the way you want to be/want to be seen/want to live. I will remember that more from now on, I think thats the most important part of "the secret" you have to really feel it, not just imagine it.... Made me also just sign up for the daily quote https://www.abraham-hicks.com/abraham-hicks-daily-quote-and-e-news-signup/ ...

 

For sure there is much to be learned about medicine/healing/emotions and how all these things align with one another... WDS really caught me off guard, because I'm the type of person that feels a cold comming and says I'm not getting sick, I'm fine and it just doesn't catch me past that initial feeling. but WDS really made me lose hope for some time... luckily family, renewed faith, and these things I had seen in the past like "the secret' made me not want to give up and find a solution....

 

we'll all get past recovery and back as strong as ever, its a matter of believing and FEELING it inside, always have faith

[[Gu...]]

Hey RexV86, so you've replicated Dexter's laboratory?  I'm glad to hear you have some decent volumetric measuring equipment; may it serve you well. Just remember to read the measurement in things like graduated cylinders at the bottom of the meniscus.

 

I don't agree with the 1:2:8 strategy that is described above, sorry kitsune556! But I do agree with her warnings about homebrew, and her instructions on how to dilute the dissolved clonazepam to make easy reductions, if you're going to be doing a daily discarding method. Some people dilute to as much as 300ml, which makes for much larger but therefore more accurate reductions. Plus 300ml is just over a cup; it's still not much solution if you're working with kitchen tools.

 

To dissolve the clonazepam rapidly, I suggest the strongest alcohol you can find (ideally 190 or 180 proof), and combine 1-2ml of alcohol ALONE with your 0.5mg tablet. Using 80 proof (40% ethanol) and/or diluting the alcohol while trying to dissolve the clonazepam is only going to radically slow down the dissolution process; medical studies done on the dissolution of clonazepam have used 48 hours as a reliable timeline for the medication to dissolve in solutions of low ethanol content (such as the 1:2:8, which with 80 proof vodka is only 8% ethanol). Do you plan to wait 48 hours?

 

If you can't get anything stronger than 80 proof, I suggest using it alone, and giving the tablets a good period of time to soak in this 1-2ml of solvent. Maybe an hour or two? I'd suggest much longer to be safe, but then people titrate with water, so you'll probably do whatever you have time for. I'm all for practicality, but I also don't know how reliably you'll get a true solution in a hurry with just 40% ethanol. After your patience runs out, only then do I suggest diluting with water.

 

Personally I do things a little differently. I make all my liquid medicine about once every month or two, and it's only 30ml in total. I start by dissolving the clonazepam tablets in 90% ethanol, then after about an hour of stirring and waiting I dilute it down to 30% ethanol. I dose this liquid with a 1ml syringe, and I take most of my doses in tablets so that my liquid portion is very small; the liquid portion is purely for titrating my DMT, which consists of reducing a single dose per day.

 

I end up consuming 1/20th of a teaspoon of ethanol per day at MOST, while creating a well-preserved and likely well-dissolved solution. Plus I never discard any of my prescription. The notes for how I do this, my DMT and my recipe are all linked in my signature under 'My Klonopin Taper Tools & Techniques'. The medical research which supports my recipe proportions is cited at the bottom of the liquid clonazepam recipe therein.

 

Is there Everclear for sale near you?

 

Slownsteady,

 

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have a question.  I am making a single batch of homebrew for my colonoscopy prep, and your instructions were to take 2.5 ml. 80 proof alcohol and mix with a .5 mg clonazepam pill and to mix for 30 minutes.  Does the above mean that this won't work, that it takes 48 hours to dissolve?  I'm very confused, and a bit concerned. I just want to make a single batch that works, but using 82 proof alcohol.  Thanks in advance for any clarification.

[[sl...]]

Slownsteady,

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I have a question.  I am making a single batch of homebrew for my colonoscopy prep, and your instructions were to take 2.5 ml. 80 proof alcohol and mix with a .5 mg clonazepam pill and to mix for 30 minutes.  Does the above mean that this won't work, that it takes 48 hours to dissolve?  I'm very confused, and a bit concerned. I just want to make a single batch that works, but using 82 proof alcohol.  Thanks in advance for any clarification.

 

It's possible to grab a quote from this thread and copy-paste it into another, but for the sake of simplicity, I'll just answer here. The medical research I was referring to was using 48 hours to reach the highest saturation point possible for clonazepam given various ratios of water to ethanol; I was trying to justify the trouble of sourcing stronger alcohol (if possible), and why I would not skip right from the alcohol and tablets stage to diluting with water. Any reasonable amount of time spent waiting and stirring with the strongest alcohol available can only help speed dissolution.

 

Making a homemade liquid solution from tablets has numerous difficulties, not the least of which is that we cannot visually see the pure medicine dissolve, on account of all the tablet fillers. So that is why whenever doing a homemade solution from tablets, I suggest treating it as some kind of solution (dissolved medicine) / suspension (floating medicine) hybrid, and stirring/shaking immediately before taking reductions or doses.

 

What I suggested for you to try GumbyGirl was not medical research, and sadly with no guarantee that the clonazepam will be fully dissolved, but it is what I believe is common practice amongst daily liquid discard taperers and what I've done personally on occasion. If you want to wait longer at the alcohol and tablet stage you could, but it's unclear how much of a difference 30 minutes will make compared to 2 hours. Some people only wait 10 minutes before diluting, others wait longer. I tried to give you an average; I'm sorry I can't be more reassuring.

 

I hope this helps! Sorry RexV86 for cluttering your thread.

[[Gu...]]

Thanks, Slownsteady, for the clarification.  I will try to do it early enough to be able to wait for the dissolution to complete.

[[Ro...]]

Hello everybody!

 

I’ve just tried to solve my tablets in alcohol and it doesn’t really work. I’m in Europe and the brand name is Rivotril. There was only one thing, that seemed working: to drop the tablets to hot water. It looks much better. I can’t see the pieces of the tablet and they’re not sitting on the bottom of the glass.  Is here anybody who has tried it? What do you think about it? Sorry for my English, I know it’s not the best, but I hope you understand what I mean. Thank you for your answers in advance.

[[sl...]]

Hello everybody!

 

I’ve just tried to solve my tablets in alcohol and it doesn’t really work. I’m in Europe and the brand name is Rivotril. There was only one thing, that seemed working: to drop the tablets to hot water. It looks much better. I can’t see the pieces of the tablet and they’re not sitting on the bottom of the glass.  Is here anybody who has tried it? What do you think about it? Sorry for my English, I know it’s not the best, but I hope you understand what I mean. Thank you for your answers in advance.

 

Hello Rozalinda67! Thanks for sharing your experience with trying to dissolve clonazepam tablets.

 

Dissolving clonazepam tablets with alcohol might not look like it's "working" because most of the tablet is filler; mine contain anhydrous lactose, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, starch and dye. Some of these ingredients, such as magnesium stearate and cellulose do not dissolve readily in water or alcohol, if at all. They leave the alcohol slurry looking chunky and float around unevenly when diluted with water.

 

However, to make an effective liquid clonazepam from tablets, my goal would be to dissolve the clonazepam (since it's the most important ingredient to get evenly distributed), and only to loosely suspend the other tablet filler ingredients that don't readily dissolve in water. For this goal, ethanol and water at ratios relative to the concentration of clonazepam seems to work very well; and to suspend the tablet filler I just shake before dosing.

 

The problem with an ethanol and water solution of clonazepam from tablets, is that with the filler floating around unevenly there's no way I know of to visually verify that the clonazepam has been dissolved. To this goal I personally err on the side of caution, both using excess ethanol, and excess agitation, and excess dissolution time. Not all of these additions are convenient for everyone doing a liquid taper, but I indulge. 

 

I am curious about why your tablet contents became transparent in hot water and without any remaining "pieces" sitting on the bottom of the glass. The Rivitrol tablets I found listed online contained magnesium stearate and talc (i.e. soapstone powder), neither of which would seem to dissolve in hot water.

 

I also wonder what water at 100C/212F or less does to clonazepam molecules. Maybe nothing?

How hot was the water you used?

[[Re...]]

I can deduct from your name that you are most likely Portuguese... let me know if you need to translate what Slow just wrote above, I'm Brazilian...

 

And as he, and many others have told me as well, those "particles" are just filler and not the actual medicine. My alcohol/liquid taper has been working, I've reduced .2grams already of "rivotril" in the US its called Klonopin but they are all Clonazepam...

 

Also, ahem MODS, wouldn't it be nice to have like an international/specific language sections. I feel like if you don't speak english well, you might miss out on all this life saving information... and some of us could help in those other sections...

[[sl...]]

There is always Google Translate; I don't know how well it works for Portuguese, but here are the results I got.

[[Ro...]]

Hello everybody!

 

I’ve just tried to solve my tablets in alcohol and it doesn’t really work. I’m in Europe and the brand name is Rivotril. There was only one thing, that seemed working: to drop the tablets to hot water. It looks much better. I can’t see the pieces of the tablet and they’re not sitting on the bottom of the glass.  Is here anybody who has tried it? What do you think about it? Sorry for my English, I know it’s not the best, but I hope you understand what I mean. Thank you for your answers in advance.

 

Hello Rozalinda67! Thanks for sharing your experience with trying to dissolve clonazepam tablets.

 

Dissolving clonazepam tablets with alcohol might not look like it's "working" because most of the tablet is filler; mine contain anhydrous lactose, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, starch and dye. Some of these ingredients, such as magnesium stearate and cellulose do not dissolve readily in water or alcohol, if at all. They leave the alcohol slurry looking chunky and float around unevenly when diluted with water.

 

However, to make an effective liquid clonazepam from tablets, my goal would be to dissolve the clonazepam (since it's the most important ingredient to get evenly distributed), and only to loosely suspend the other tablet filler ingredients that don't readily dissolve in water. For this goal, ethanol and water at ratios relative to the concentration of clonazepam seems to work very well; and to suspend the tablet filler I just shake before dosing.

 

The problem with an ethanol and water solution of clonazepam from tablets, is that with the filler floating around unevenly there's no way I know of to visually verify that the clonazepam has been dissolved. To this goal I personally err on the side of caution, both using excess ethanol, and excess agitation, and excess dissolution time. Not all of these additions are convenient for everyone doing a liquid taper, but I indulge. 

 

I am curious about why your tablet contents became transparent in hot water and without any remaining "pieces" sitting on the bottom of the glass. The Rivitrol tablets I found listed online contained magnesium stearate and talc (i.e. soapstone powder), neither of which would seem to dissolve in hot water.

 

I also wonder what water at 100C/212F or less does to clonazepam molecules. Maybe nothing?

How hot was the water you used?

 

 

Thank you for the answer, Slownsteady!

 

So I don't know the reasons, but I've tried it again with 100 C water and my tablet has dissolved in a minute without remaining pieces. The only question is, what happens with the ingredients. What do you think, do they lose their efficiency? I'm afraid of everything.

 

[[Ro...]]

I can deduct from your name that you are most likely Portuguese... let me know if you need to translate what Slow just wrote above, I'm Brazilian...

 

And as he, and many others have told me as well, those "particles" are just filler and not the actual medicine. My alcohol/liquid taper has been working, I've reduced .2grams already of "rivotril" in the US its called Klonopin but they are all Clonazepam...

 

Also, ahem MODS, wouldn't it be nice to have like an international/specific language sections. I feel like if you don't speak english well, you might miss out on all this life saving information... and some of us could help in those other sections...

 

Thank you for your answer RexV86 !

 

You are almost right with my nationality!  No, I'm just kidding...I'm Hungarian and I think there aren't many people on BB, who can speak my language. Unfortunetly I haven't really used the English since I finished the College, but I can understand almost everything. To speak or to write correctly is much harder.

I'm really happy, that the titration is working for you. I have been struggling for almost two years now, and just hope that something will help me.

[[sl...]]

Thank you for the answer, Slownsteady!

 

So I don't know the reasons, but I've tried it again with 100 C water and my tablet has dissolved in a minute without remaining pieces. The only question is, what happens with the ingredients. What do you think, do they lose their efficiency? I'm afraid of everything.

 

I'm sorry to hear how much you've been struggling the last two years. I'm pretty much afraid of everything too. I was just visiting my 92yo grandmother, and very sick with anxiety the whole time. Some days are better than others... 

 

Hungarian! Okay. I'm impressed that you can communicate in English, and I hope we can help you. Google Translate also does Hungarian, but I have no idea how well it works.

 

I am just guessing here, but I suspect that a little boiling water does not significant change the clonazepam potency, especially if you are doing a daily liquid method (making a liquid clonazepam for just the day). I have heard another buddy suggest using heat to help dissolve clonazepam into solution, but I can't remember where.

 

This is literally the only information I could find on heating benzos, and it's dubious at best...

https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/how-long-should-i-heat-and-shake-my-benzo-powder-solution.874090/

 

Rozalinda67 if you start your own thread on the tapering boards, myself and others can better address your specific situation. If you go to the Titration board main page and click "New Topic" you can create a thread, tell us about your situation and needs, and we'll try to help!

 

RexV86, still smooth sailing with your 5-day method?

[[Re...]]

could have sworn by the name which translates to Beautiful Rose (in portuguese) , maybe we have similar words then lol...

 

Yes my method is working great Slow, actually, as I taper further I find myself having more solution leftover and so I've been able to make a 10 days supply this time... and by just going from concentrated solution to 500ml beaker to 2 graduated cylinders (1 for each dose) i do all of this in around 1 hour... I still get scared sometimes, ngl, like yesterday I thought maybe the anxiety was hitting me again but it was more of a mild cold... today i felt fine, or should I say I, emphasis on FEEL, GREAT!

[[sl...]]

Yes my method is working great Slow, actually, as I taper further I find myself having more solution leftover and so I've been able to make a 10 days supply this time... and by just going from concentrated solution to 500ml beaker to 2 graduated cylinders (1 for each dose) i do all of this in around 1 hour... I still get scared sometimes, ngl, like yesterday I thought maybe the anxiety was hitting me again but it was more of a mild cold... today i felt fine, or should I say I, emphasis on FEEL, GREAT!

 

That's awesome! I'm so glad to hear this Rex. Your taper looks linear, so I wouldn't be surprised if things get a little more difficult in the next month or two, but I hope they don't!

 

Keep us posted! 

[[Ed...]]

To clarify...

 

1 mg klonopin + 8 ml vodka.  Mix well.  + 2 ml water.  Mix.  Solution would be 0.1 mg/ml

 

Or

 

1 mg klonopin + 9 ml vodka.  Mix well.  + 1 ml water.  Mix.  Solution is 0.1 mg/ml

 

Or

 

1 mg klonopin + 4 ml vodka.  Mix well.  Solution is 0.25 mg/ml

 

Or

 

1 mg klonopin + 5 ml vodka.  Mix well.  Solution is 0.2 mg/ml

 

I think that all of these satisfy the 50% wiggle room requirement.  Mixing 1 mg with 4ml vodka (no water) would use the smallest amount of alcohol.  I know that's a consideration for many people. 

 

Keeping the alcohol content above 30% should keep klonopin in solution at 0.1 mg/ml (the lab value is 0.2 mg/ml).  With the old 1:2:8 approach, the alcohol content was only 8%, so the klonopin was suspended instead of being in solution.  Suspensions actually work fairly well, but not as well as solutions.  Also, suspensions are useful for shorter periods of time.

 

 

 

What's your recipe for 0.5 mg/ml?  Would this satisfy your 50% requirement?

 

1mg K + 1 ml Everclear.  Mix well. + 1 ml water.  Solution is 0.5 mg/ml?

[[sl...]]

What's your recipe for 0.5 mg/ml?  Would this satisfy your 50% requirement?

 

1mg K + 1 ml Everclear.  Mix well. + 1 ml water.  Solution is 0.5 mg/ml?

 

I can't speak for Badsocref; I don't know what his 50% requirement is. Yes, 1mg K in 2ml of solution is a 0.5mg/ml solution.

 

The rule of thumb I was taught for dissolving K is to use 2.5ml of 180 proof alcohol per 1mg of K; the proof matters not the brand, I think Everclear comes in a few strengths depending on the state. You can likely get away with 80 proof if you double the amount of alcohol used. An important step is to allow the tablet to dissolve for a while in the alcohol alone; this is especially important for weaker proofs. How long to wait? No one really knows! Another rule of thumb might be 20-30 minutes for 180 proof, double that for 80 proof; but there's no guarantee that's enough time for full dissolution.

 

Nothing about home made liquid solutions is reliable, especially once you see all the tablet filler that floats around unevenly making it impossible to know if you dissolved all the medicine. I used a research paper to create the liquid clonazepam tablet recipe I describe in my taper notes, and I had the results emulated by a compounding pharmacist with pure clonazepam. Both my home made liquid and the pharmacy compounding felt the same for me while doing a daily micro liquid/tablet hybrid taper.

 

Some people suggest using just water to "dissolve" clonazepam; I think this would take a long time to do any actual dissolving and the results being made are actually a suspension. I think using alcohol goes a long way to dissolving some if not all of the clonazepam, but I still treat any home made liquid that I can't see straight through as a suspension, and shake well and dose quickly after that. I think the alcohol also acts a strong preservative if it's over 10%, so there's advantage to using it if I want to make a batch that lasts for a long time in the fridge.

 

RexV86 your thread topic attracts a lot of buddies looking to taper their K!

[[Ed...]]

The rule of thumb I was taught for dissolving K is to use 2.5ml of 180 proof alcohol per 1mg of K; the proof matters not the brand, I think Everclear comes in a few strengths depending on the state. You can likely get away with 80 proof if you double the amount of alcohol used. An important step is to allow the tablet to dissolve for a while in the alcohol alone; this is especially important for weaker proofs. How long to wait? No one really knows! Another rule of thumb might be 20-30 minutes for 180 proof, double that for 80 proof; but there's no guarantee that's enough time for full dissolution.

 

Nothing about home made liquid solutions is reliable, especially once you see all the tablet filler that floats around unevenly making it impossible to know if you dissolved all the medicine. I used a research paper to create the liquid clonazepam tablet recipe I describe in my taper notes, and I had the results emulated by a compounding pharmacist with pure clonazepam. Both my home made liquid and the pharmacy compounding felt the same for me while doing a daily micro liquid/tablet hybrid taper.

 

 

slownsteady, I agree with you that "homebrew" liquid Klonopin is the weak link in the chain.  The science suggests it is possible, but we don't have good evidence confirming that the solutions produced actually deliver the amount of Klonopin we put into them.  Letting the pills do the "heavy lifting" of the taper while keeping the suspect liquid component as small as possible seems like a smart move.

 

Here is the solubility data you cite massaged a little bit to make it easier to understand:

 

vol frac EtOH Proof mol/L Solubility mg/ml

0% 0 0.00010 0.03

10% 20 0.00013 0.04

20% 40 0.00025 0.08

30% 60 0.00063 0.20

40% 80 0.00190 0.60

50% 100 0.00452 1.43

60% 120 0.00836 2.64

70% 140 0.01336 4.22

80% 160 0.01788 5.64

90% 180 0.01957 6.18

100% 200 0.01619 5.11

 

"Source: Solubility of Lamotrigine, Diazepam, and Clonazepam in Ethanol + Water

Mixtures at 298.15 K

Ali Shayanfar,† Mohammad A. A. Fakhree,§ William E. Acree, Jr.,| and Abolghasem Jouyban*,‡"

 

A couple of questions:

 

(1) You write in your recipe:  "... the 30% ethanol content of the aforementioned recipe is a requirement of clonazepam's solubility in ethanol and water..." Where does it say that in the paper?  According to the study you cite, a 30% ABV mix would have a solubility of just 0.2 mg/ml.  Why take any chances?  Why not just use 180 proof alcohol instead of water to accomplish the dilution?

 

(2) Where did you get the rule of thumb of 2.5 ml of 180 proof alcohol per 1mg K?  This seems too conservative according to the above data that report K solubility in 180 proof alcohol as ~ 6 mg/ml.

 

(3) I've ordered 1L of Everclear 190 proof.  How much water do I need to add to it to bring it down to 180 proof? Is it as simple as adding (.95/.90 - 1) * 1000 ml of water?