My Klonopin Taper with spreadsheet/math - short term user

[[Kl...]]

Thanks so much Pamster, I really appreciate the kind words! And seekingtoheal - congrats on getting down to under .25! That's HUGE! Good to know on Mirtazapine. I'll have to keep that in mind if my sleep starts to get worse once I begin to cut my night dose. So far, I've been happy with the PS-100, so hoping it'll help then, but who knows once I reduce that night dose!

 

Glad overall your taper has been good, but agree it sounds like as you get lower, you might need to slow down, and taking a week to hold will be a good check to see how you are feeling. The DMT is nice and gentle but doses can catch up with you over time. I've held a bit already a few times and know I'll likely need to do that every month or two going forward to let the DMT catch up and see how my body is doing. But sounds like you have made a ton of progress. I'm super excited for you and can't wait until I get to below .25!! WOOT! I'm at .545 and can't wait to get below .5!!

[[se...]]

Glad overall your taper has been good, but agree it sounds like as you get lower, you might need to slow down, and taking a week to hold will be a good check to see how you are feeling. The DMT is nice and gentle but doses can catch up with you over time. I've held a bit already a few times and know I'll likely need to do that every month or two going forward to let the DMT catch up and see how my body is doing. But sounds like you have made a ton of progress. I'm super excited for you and can't wait until I get to below .25!! WOOT! I'm at .545 and can't wait to get below .5!!

 

Thank you. With your approach and attitude I have no doubt of your success. You will be at 0.5 mg before you know it!!

[[sl...]]

Thanks for sharing this update! Congrats on all your progress. I'm still up around 1.25mg, but we're currently cutting 6%/14 days together. 

 

I was surprised when Gail's website suggested liquid benzos be compounded as a suspension in olive oil, for micro-dosing. I tried oil-suspended liquid clonazepam in two different vehicles (one proprietary, the other pure MCT oil) and both results were shockingly ineffective. Since I switched to clonazepam in water with 30% ethanol, it's been incredibly easy to micro taper.

 

Gail's site say's she does ethanol compounding for diazepam only. I also found this surprising because my compounding pharmacist read the same medical research I did and made me a very effective 30% ethanol liquid clonazepam using pure clonazepam powder; it works great and is easy for a compounding pharmacist to prepare.

 

My liquid formula is 0.125mg/ml. I do a liquid/tablet hybrid, which is why I can use such a dilute formula. I'm only ever taking liquid as a substitution for 1/4 of one tablet from one of my doses, and I can reduce this liquid dose with a 1ml syringe by 0.00125mg degrees. Also I only consume at most 1/20th tsp of ethanol per day.

 

If you're ever curious about this approach, I wrote a series of posts describing what I'm doing. The link to them is in my signature. I also link to the medical research regarding saturation rates of clonazepam in water and ethanol in the post on making liquid clonazepam from tablets.

 

I really like Gail's insights into tapering and neurology and her suggested taper rates; I hope I don't sound too critical about her. I appreciate everything you've shared from your appointments and your experiences; you've really helped me to settle into my 6%/14 rate, which is what my body was asking for all along. Thank you!

 

Again, congratulations! You're rocking this, and with all your other responsibilities, I'm very impressed. I hope tapering continues to get easier for you. 

[[Di...]]

I am so glad I stumbled upon this thread!  All of the info and updates are great.  Gail sounds awesome with all of her Benzo knowledge so refreshing to know there is a professional who gets it!

Thank you KQ for sharing and everyone else's input!

[[Kl...]]

Super helpful insight, slownsteady. And Dianedeedee, I'm so glad you found this info helpful! Please reach out with any questions!

 

I haven't dabbled into the liquid titration yet, but I likely will as I get lower and need to be perfectly precise (my scale isn't perfect, but thus far it's been ok even if I may be off .001 or .002, but later on, that likely won't be the case!)

 

Thanks for all the details - I will show this research to Gail. She noted she has seen a lot of issues with Klonopin liquid tapering, thus why she recos either staying with dry cutting, or moving to Valium if needed. So I don't think liquid Klonopin is her specialty, so I think this is super helpful to share. And this research is really interesting. I'd be curious to get her take on it.

 

Do you do this all with the .5 pills? Are you able to get the .125 Klonopin dissolvable tablets? That would likely make your life much easier, and I imagine they would dissolve easier as well, since they are dissolvable tablets. Gail prescribes these for me to take for the day pill, and the standard .5 pills for night. But as I get lower on my night pill, I'll likely ask to swap to double the .125s so I can liquid taper one and take the other .125 pill, especially once I'm at the .25 level. You should look into getting the .125 pills! I've had no issues transferring day pills to the dissolvable tablets, and that is how I'm able to cut so low of a dose (at a little more than a quarter of a .125 tablet now) Although I've noticed once my tablet is under .01 (while testing) it's harder for my scale to recognize it. So I may even do a little liquid taper soon as needed as I drop my day dose, or do a cut and hold for the last week or so and drop off my day pill from 0.02 or 0.01 vs. taking it all the way down. I've also heard adding a weight to the scale makes it read those lower doses better, so I may try that too.

 

But your info is really intriguing. I skimmed it but need to dive deeper to ensure I understand it. So are you taking a regular pill during a few doses, and then using liquid to titrate on just 1 dose a day? And do you make a week or so at a time and then pull out the dose you need from that?

 

I might try to use the pill/liquid combo too - so I need to dig into your stuff more! Thanks again for reaching out!

[[Di...]]

Super helpful insight, slownsteady. And Dianedeedee, I'm so glad you found this info helpful! Please reach out with any questions!

 

I haven't dabbled into the liquid titration yet, but I likely will as I get lower and need to be perfectly precise (my scale isn't perfect, but thus far it's been ok even if I may be off .001 or .002, but later on, that likely won't be the case!)

 

Thanks for all the details - I will show this research to Gail. She noted she has seen a lot of issues with Klonopin liquid tapering, thus why she recos either staying with dry cutting, or moving to Valium if needed. So I don't think liquid Klonopin is her specialty, so I think this is super helpful to share. And this research is really interesting. I'd be curious to get her take on it.

 

Do you do this all with the .5 pills? Are you able to get the .125 Klonopin dissolvable tablets? That would likely make your life much easier, and I imagine they would dissolve easier as well, since they are dissolvable tablets. Gail prescribes these for me to take for the day pill, and the standard .5 pills for night. But as I get lower on my night pill, I'll likely ask to swap to double the .125s so I can liquid taper one and take the other .125 pill, especially once I'm at the .25 level. You should look into getting the .125 pills! I've had no issues transferring day pills to the dissolvable tablets, and that is how I'm able to cut so low of a dose (at a little more than a quarter of a .125 tablet now) Although I've noticed once my tablet is under .01 (while testing) it's harder for my scale to recognize it. So I may even do a little liquid taper soon as needed as I drop my day dose, or do a cut and hold for the last week or so and drop off my day pill from 0.02 or 0.01 vs. taking it all the way down. I've also heard adding a weight to the scale makes it read those lower doses better, so I may try that too.

 

But your info is really intriguing. I skimmed it but need to dive deeper to ensure I understand it. So are you taking a regular pill during a few doses, and then using liquid to titrate on just 1 dose a day? And do you make a week or so at a time and then pull out the dose you need from that?

 

I might try to use the pill/liquid combo too - so I need to dig into your stuff more! Thanks again for reaching out!

 

KQ thank you for the warm welcome.  I am doing a daily liquid micro taper using intensol lorazepam.  All of the info you shared gives me hope.  May I ask what mg of Zoloft you are taking?  I am on 100 mg/day my doc has suggested possibly increasing my dose to maybe help with anxiety. 

Wishing you all the best.

[[sl...]]

Thanks for all the details - I will show this research to Gail. She noted she has seen a lot of issues with Klonopin liquid tapering, thus why she recos either staying with dry cutting, or moving to Valium if needed. So I don't think liquid Klonopin is her specialty, so I think this is super helpful to share. And this research is really interesting. I'd be curious to get her take on it.

 

Do you do this all with the .5 pills?

Are you able to get the .125 Klonopin dissolvable tablets?

So are you taking a regular pill during a few doses, and then using liquid to titrate on just 1 dose a day?

And do you make a week or so at a time and then pull out the dose you need from that?

 

I'm glad you're interested in what I'm doing, and I hope that research helps Gail.

 

The answers to all of your questions are in my notes. I've done everything with 0.5mg tablets, although I recently trialed a pharmacy compounded equivalent to my homemade liquid K recipe and I'll keep ordering it because it's so affordable at the rate I consume it. A 30ml batch of liquid lasts me about 2 months currently.

 

If you can spare it, please take some time and read my tapering notes; I try to be thorough. If there's anything unclear after reading them, I'm happy to answer any questions. I'd also really welcome your feedback, negative or positive, about the clarity and usefulness of my notes; so far the only feedback I've gotten is that they're overwhelming or confusing... I'm a little discouraged, even though my taper is going swimmingly.

 

Keep us posted!

Bed time for benzos! 

[[Kl...]]

Dianedeedee - so glad it’s helpful! I’m on 50mg on Zoloft. It helps some and previous doc wanted me to increase it, but I’ve done more somatic therapy and ketamine assisted therapy that really helped me cope better with the anxiety, change my relationship to it, so I’ve been ok without increasing. But totally up to you if you think it’ll help! I just want less drugs right now vs more... so frustrated with big pharma right now lol!

 

Slownsteady - I’ll definitely check it out. At first glance it looks awesome, but super detailed where I need to be focused and really spend some time going through it to understand it. But looks like a lot of really great info! I’ll definitely dig in more later!! Thanks so so much!!

[[Di...]]

Dianedeedee - so glad it’s helpful! I’m on 50mg on Zoloft. It helps some and previous doc wanted me to increase it, but I’ve done more somatic therapy and ketamine assisted therapy that really helped me cope better with the anxiety, change my relationship to it, so I’ve been ok without increasing. But totally up to you if you think it’ll help! I just want less drugs right now vs more... so frustrated with big pharma right now lol!

 

Slownsteady - I’ll definitely check it out. At first glance it looks awesome, but super detailed where I need to be focused and really spend some time going through it to understand it. But looks like a lot of really great info! I’ll definitely dig in more later!! Thanks so so much!!

 

KQ thank you yes I'm leary about more meds I probably just need to hang on a while more. 😊

[[Du...]]

KQ just wanted to jump in and say thank you for sharing your google sheets document a while ago. I was able to use it as a blueprint/guide for my 1mg DMT.

 

Congrats on the progress!

 

 

[[Kl...]]

So glad to hear Dukemonroe! I’m so happy to hear others have been able to use it!

 

If you have any questions with the spreadsheet, feel free to reach out! There were a few spots I noticed the math wasn’t adding up accurately and I had the incorrect formula for the last day of the week in a few spots. It should be fixed now (in the last week), at least up until where I’m at (black font vs red) so if you copied before the last week I’m happy to help fix it on yours!

[[Kl...]]

It looks good! I did my % change per week a little differently, but they should end up generally the same (I took the total weight of the Sat before less the Sat of current week, divided by the Sat before... so a percent change week over week.) But the results are pretty similar with adding the daily change too. So I think that works well. You could probably cut column E too since it looks like yours is just one dose a day (vs. mine added day and night) so it's just duplicating that same info. But it works as is too. Hope the spreadsheet works out for you and that your taper goes well!

[[Du...]]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

On your sheet, you mention you feel “shaky” is that from your anxiety? I feel like whenever there is a slight trigger I get anxious/shaky.

 

I have been holding as I was going to fast, just wondering when I should continue now that I feel a little more stable.

[[Kl...]]

I have a light shake in my hands a lot now, even when not anxious. It’s not horrible but noticeable to me. And gets worse when anxious. I usually wait a few days after feeling stable, then continue my slow DMT, cutting a little each day.

 

I’m down to 0.025 (6% of 0.5mg) on my day pill today, and if I’m doing well I’ll be done with my day pill by middle of next week! But then I plan to hold about 1-2 weeks before starting to wean night pill to let my body catch up from the slow daily taper over the last 3.5 months. Sometimes it can catch up with you if you daily micro taper vs cut and hold approach, so I’ve found it helpful to hold a week every month or so since starting my taper. But listen to your body and go at the pace that feels right for you!

[[se...]]

I’m down to 0.025 (6% of 0.5mg) on my day pill today, and if I’m doing well I’ll be done with my day pill by middle of next week! But then I plan to hold about 1-2 weeks before starting to wean night pill to let my body catch up from the slow daily taper over the last 3.5 months. Sometimes it can catch up with you if you daily micro taper vs cut and hold approach, so I’ve found it helpful to hold a week every month or so since starting my taper. But listen to your body and go at the pace that feels right for you!

 

Very wise words and smart actions KlonopinQuitterinCO.

[[Kl...]]

Just wanted to celebrate a fun milestone with those I know can understand it best, and get excited with me!! 

 

Yesterday I took my LAST Klonopin DAY pill! I was on .5 day and .5 night. My doc reco'd to cut day first, since my anxiety isn't as bad during the day, and my issues started with insomnia, so she said to cut the night last. I DMT'd from mid March to now - so a little over 3 months. Went a little too fast at times, but overall have been able to work, chase young kids, and doing alright. I'm tired, I get anxious, but I'm better at dealing with anxiety now, and I've been sleeping ok. I've found around 2.5% - 3.5% a week (5-7% every 2 weeks) seems to be the smoothest for me right now.

 

I'm going to hold where I'm at for 2 weeks, let the micro reductions all catch up in my system, then start tapering the night next month, very slowly. Wish me luck!! Hope you all are having a good weekend and Happy Father's Day to all the amazing dads out there!

[[sl...]]

Congratulations!

 

Thanks for sharing the good news. You're amazing. I hope the next couple weeks offer some respite and recovery from lingering symptoms, and that your slow and wizened approach to tapering the night dose will go as smoothly as possible.

[[se...]]

Congrats!!  Great achievement.

[[ag...]]

Kick that Klonopin! Heck yeah. Celebrate the wins, and getting rid of that day pill is a big one. Well Done 

[[Kl...]]

Thanks so much everyone!! Really appreciate the support! Half down, half to go! Big milestone!!

[[To...]]

Klonopinquitterco, I just got down to .5 mgs of clonazepam myself, but mine are split into 2 doses of .25mg morning and nighttime. I went a little quick to get there (in some opinions). So I’m holding here for a little longer than 2 weeks because the last cut was the most difficult so far, so I’m giving myself extra time to get more stable. I think I might switch to a dmt from hear on out, unless I can get my doctor and insurance to prescribe me the .125 ODTs. If I could get those that would be ideal. That way they can be cut by 1/4s and stay within the safe range of 5-10%.  Anyway, I was rambling there. Just wanted to say congrats on getting down to.5mg clonazepam. Hope we can both get this out of our lives in the near future.

[[Du...]]

KQCO, how’s the taper been going? Hope you’re well.

[[Kl...]]

Sorry for the delay - I got off the forum for awhile with a ton of chaos happening at home (moved, found horrible mold issue, had to gut the basement, in a lawsuit with previous owners, daughter behavioral issues, working overtime way too much at work, etc) Plus the whole benzo tapering and anxiety on top of that!

 

But I've been doing alright, all things considered. I've been dropping around 3% a week and found that to be the best... if I go over 3.5% a week I have a lot of anxiety pop up. I'm down to a little over 60% of my night pill (less than a third of my original dose now! Woot!) I'm at .313mg total now (all at night - no day pill since June!) and hoping to be at .25 in a few months. I'm using the .125 pills, which helps a lot. But my Dr. is recommending I switch to Valium now that I'm getting lower and the cuts are less accurate/bigger percentage off if I'm off a little bit. So debating that, but worry about introducing a new med.

 

I'm also still debating if I want to start using liquid for one of the .125 pills once I get to .25... lots to think about, but going down slowly but surely. I held for 6 weeks with the move and when we found the mold (at 3 .125 pills) but otherwise ticking down little by little!

 

How are you all holding up???

[[Pa...]]

Considering what you've been through I'm impressed you can say you're doing alright, good for you!  It looks like you still have time to decide how you want to proceed, I can understand your hesitancy in switching to another medication if you're doing fairly well on this one.  Most will switch if they're finding it too uncomfortable on their short acting drug but if you're doing okay on this one, I'd suggest titration for that last little bit.

[[Li...]]

Hello, KlonopinQuitterinCO.  Congratulations on reducing your dose to 0.313mg!  In case you are interested, we have members who have used the 0.125mg clonazepam orally disintegrating tablets (ODTs) for both dry/solid titration and wet/liquid titration.