2nd attempt at sleep with no aids

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Wow! That’s so amazing!

[Guest [An...]]

I napped naturally yesterday 40min after no less than 6 months.

Like an orgasm 

 

Nice! good stuff man. Yeah I'm not even going to bother napping at all, until I have at least 6hr sleep naturally. I was never able to nap even before. I just lay there in bed wide awake, unless I was very tired.

[[Sh...]]

Yeah it’s been a while for me too. Keep the dream alive tho! 

[Guest [An...]]

Yeah it’s been a while for me too. Keep the dream alive tho! 

 

When I was in acute, I used to lay down around 5pm almost daily for a couple of hours. Never fell asleep, but that bit of rest was enough to reduce the sides by maybe 15% and get thru the evening.

 

A couple of months later, I tried napping again (all the sides were gone except for the insomnia), and even if I had only slept 2hr the night before, I still wouldn't fall asleep.

 

My body is very picking about circadian rhythm. It wants to sleep at the same time every night. And it prefers later than earlier.

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Yeah I need to try and stay up later so I’m not awake at 12pm but I cannot keep my eyes open past 9 some nights. But sleep is sleep so I’ll take it when I need it.

 

When I think back pre Benzos I very rare napped but I had small children so that made it difficult. But the week before it started I remember falling asleep on the lounge during the day and then got woken up by my kids so I could nap I just wasn’t able to. But yep the z drugs made sure that never happened again

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Actually I didn't plan to nap. I was just laying down and listen to something on YouTube when I realised that it wasn't the same video. I napped 40 minutes. My sleep is so poor and chemical that I felt "energized". LoL.

If try to nap purposely I fail. I've got some tinnitus recently. I decided to hold for a while, until I'll meet a specialist next week.

Sometimes benzos could relief some types of tinnitus while severe insomnia tend to worsen it. On the contrary some non benzo (off label) sleeping drugs like Seroquel, Trazodone or Mirtazapine could be ototoxic. I don't want to updose but holding is an option. If tinnitus persist after 90 days it would improve hardly by itself in the future. At least this is conventional wisdom on the topic.

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What’s ur plan with seroquel and lyrica ? Will u wait til off benzo to taper them?

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After C/T lormetazepam and a failed C/O at 5mg Diazepam (likely because it was a too low dosage), I can't sleep at all or I can't sleep enough to be functional relying just on benzos.

Lyrica and seroquel are meant to make me fall asleep. Actually I'm tapering pregabalin at 75mg because I don't see significant results. Perhaps I'll give a try to Mirtazapine and/or Trazodone instead of Seroquel.

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Yeah but the seroquel isn’t working is it?

 

I think u should try something else coz it’s not helping u. Aps never helped me.

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Well, at the moment my insomnia is quite drug resistant. Perhaps another hypnotic benzo would work (Diazepam has sedative properties but it's not an hypnotic) but I don't want to try it. 50mg Quietapine IR works a little bit with some side effects (drowsiness). Let's say 5h are better than 0.

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Yep 5 hrs is definitely better than none. Sorry I thought U were getting less than that x

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When it works Seroquel kicks in quickly. But it's not a great quality sleep. Doc say I could go up to 100mg but I'm holding. I don't like the antihistaminic effect in general.

To be honest, until I reached tolerance my old benzos were better for sleeping.

[Guest [An...]]

When it works Seroquel kicks in quickly. But it's not a great quality sleep. Doc say I could go up to 100mg but I'm holding. I don't like the antihistaminic effect in general.

To be honest, until I reached tolerance my old benzos were better for sleeping.

 

From everything I've read. Seroquel has more serious side effects than Remeron, and Remeron has more serious side effects than Trazadone.

 

But I like Remeron because it's the least Anti-Cholinergic, even less than Unisom, so you can dial it in easier for sleep. I had to take 100mg Trazadone to make me drowsy enough to sleep. But 3.75mg Remeron does the trick, and I wake up 80% good, which goes over 90% after lunch time.

 

But you gotta do what you gotta do for sleep.

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3.75mg Remeron sounds quite low. My doc was hesitant prescribing me 7.5 - 15mg Remeron because of weight gains. Where I'm living smallest Remeron tablet dosage is 15mg. I don't know if liquid Mirtazapine is available somewhere.

 

I think you found your drug Andros at 3.75 the anti H1 effect should be prominent, basically a sleeping pill. If it does the trick it's pretty fine. I'm not a drug expert but I won't be surprised if 3.75mg Mirt is safer than 100mg Trazodone. I also read Mirtazapine shorten REM phase a little bit but less than Quietapine so I imagine sleep quality should be better.

 

Actually I've got 75mg Trazodone tablet extended release that I never tried. Does anyone has ever tried extended release? Trazodone is preatty safe but could worsen tinnitus via serotonin (like many AD). I will discuss it with my doc next time.

 

[Guest [An...]]

3.75mg Remeron sounds quite low. My doc was hesitant prescribing me 7.5 - 15mg Remeron because of weight gains. Where I'm living smallest Remeron tablet dosage is 15mg. I don't know if liquid Mirtazapine is available somewhere.

 

I think you found your drug Andros at 3.75 the anti H1 effect should be prominent, basically a sleeping pill. If it does the trick it's pretty fine. I'm not a drug expert but I won't be surprised if 3.75mg Mirt is safer than 100mg Trazodone. I also read Mirtazapine shorten REM phase a little bit but less than Quietapine so I imagine sleep quality should be better.

 

Actually I've got 75mg Trazodone tablet extended release that I never tried. Does anyone has ever tried extended release? Trazodone is preatty safe but could worsen tinnitus via serotonin (like many AD). I will discuss it with my doc next time.

 

Because I was a short term user, my theory, based on some logical deductions, is that I hurt my GABA receptors enough to not be able to initiate sleep on my own, but did not completely flatten them out, so a pill that reduces histamine allowed the receptors to have a chance at slowing the neurons down, enough to sleep.

 

As my brain heals, I am able to get more sleep on the same doses.

 

For those that have basically flattened their GABA receptors, those are usually the people who cannot get any sleep at all, even if they take powerful anti-histamines. We've all experienced this, where Trazadone or Remeron completely zombifies us, but we don't actually fall asleep. I had a few nights like that, and a BUNCH of nights where Remeron only gave me 3hr, but that eventually became 5hr, and now with it I get a full 8hr.

 

So my suffering is essentially over, and it's just a matter of my brain being able to sleep 6hr on its own, which I haven't gotten to yet.

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Yes, usually long term user experience more difficulties. Expecially in case of C/T. Btw tonight I've got 7+ with 50mg seroquel, broken but 7+.

It tried to be extremely regular recently and I've got the sensation that it pays. Perhaps CBT is quite right when it says that you should go to bed at the same hour every day weekend included.