Jordan Peterson, take 2, let's stay on point, please

[[...]]

Mate...we started a new thread to avoid you. You're just trolling us now.

 

Lol. This.

 

but agreed i dont know where this xenon treatment idea comes from and it seems out of left field. If someone could post to an explanation behind the xenon thing, that would be great, id like to look into it. but i dont see the connection to Jordan B Peterson.

 

Xenon is a treatment that seems to be widely used in Serbia. We found it when trying to determine what treatment Dr. Jordan Peterson used in Serbia. Pacenik, who is from the area, said that in Serbia they use Xenon and Flumazenil for benzo withdrawal. We found several clinics in Serbia that advertise Xenon inhalation therapy, for addiction and other things. So we started looking into it. Turns out, it's mechanism of action is that it modulates and desensitizes AMPA glutamate receptors. Hyper-sensitized/kindled AMPA/glutamate receptors is what many of us, including myself, have come to believe is at the root of many benzo withdrawal symptoms, particularly in cases of PAWS or setbacks. Furthermore, xenon's MOA does not appear to be merely a temporary NMDA antagonist, as again, we are talking modulation. Numerous studies posted here have shown that after several treatments, it can create long-lasting, potentially permanent changes to these receptors. This is, again what some of us believe, is exactly what needs to happen in our nervous systems. Long lasting attenuation and modulation of over-active glutamate receptors. It was also noted that he was treated by an anesthesiologist specifically. And xenon is used primarily as an anesthetic.

 

It's true we don't know any more details about what Dr. Peterson took and it is very much a leap to assume it was xenon. And no matter how many times we keep reiterating and arguing about that uncertainty in circles, or speculating more based on the tiny amount of info we have from his camp, we're not going to get anywhere. I think that's why ramcom jumped to a different thread. It was getting cluttered with discussions that were not furthering the conversation or the quest.

 

Xenon is in a few other countries, but Serbia seems to be a hotspot. Hence it's hypothesized connection to Dr. Peterson. Regardless though, moreso than it's connection to Serbia, it has very interesting science behind it. The aforementioned publications and studies, it's MOA, it all seems to be something that could potentially be very useful for us. That's why it's exciting now, to me. Not because I am certain Jordan Peterson got it - though, he might've - but because of the science.

 

 

if he found a treatment that worked. He would be ethically and duty-bound to share that knowledge immediately, and he has done that in the past with diet and other things, even though he wasn't able to confirm its efficacy ultimately.

 

Its like research ethics and professionalism 101. if you find a cure/treatment and you can alleviate a lot of suffering, you change course and rush to treat and alleviate suffering. He KNOWS that.

 

Given that, i think he therefore was just in a window when he talked about finding a treatment during that last interview in the OP.  because otherwise he wouldnt remain silent, he would tell the public his treatment to help others if it helped him.

 

I like Dr. Peterson and I do agree that he would be ethically and duty-bound to share this information. But after that video and the statements made, I think he is also ethically and duty-bound to follow up and tell people that it DIDN'T work. Which he has not done either. I am honestly surprised and question the ethics of not just making that information public right from the jump. Because it was helping him, very clearly. I don't know why you withhold that information. Of course, including the asterisk that 'this could just be a band-aid', 'we need to try this for a while to see if it's legit', 'don't jump to this treatment because we need more time to test it's efficacy for sure'. etc. etc... All of that makes sense. But why the secrecy in the first place?

 

Given that there has been no follow-up at all, positive or negative, I don't think your point really stands. Until they follow up on it, we won't know. But the silence is pretty bothersome, given the amount of people suffering and the amount of people who are surely dying (literally for some of us) of curiosity just for a small update. They planted seeds of hope in the video and then went radio silent. I respect their privacy, but like you said, many suffering people stand to benefit and many suffering people are now interested. 

 

...

I think xenon is a great place to start. Not because it seems obvious that Dr. Peterson received it, he may not have after all. But because it has logical science behind it. I am waiting very anxiously to hear accounts of users who give it a shot.

 

If we want to really really uncover the secrets behind Dr. Peterson's adventure, beyond hypotheticals of Serbian-based treatments or analyzing every word in the few sentences they provided us, then arguing in circles on this thread isn't going to help at all. We should reach out to Jordan and Mikhaila Peterson. Continue to request information. Let them know that there are so many suffering people who are sitting on the edges of their seats waiting for an update. Let them know that the information could save people's lives. Someone here said they had spoken to someone close to Dr. Peterson, reach out to them too. We do not currently have enough information to make conclusions or hypothesis beyond what we have done. So we should (along with trying xenon) go out and respectfully demand/search for information.

 

My two cents. 

[[Pa...]]

The idea that Jordan Peterson was treated with Xenon is totally baseless. Also, we simply don't know if he is feeling well now.

 

Mate...we started a new thread to avoid you. You're just trolling us now.

 

Shamo3,

 

All contributions to a thread as long as they conform to forum policies and relate to the topic are welcome, your comment is not.

 

Pamster

[[Ma...]]

Mate...we started a new thread to avoid you. You're just trolling us now.

 

Lol. This.

 

but agreed i dont know where this xenon treatment idea comes from and it seems out of left field. If someone could post to an explanation behind the xenon thing, that would be great, id like to look into it. but i dont see the connection to Jordan B Peterson.

 

Xenon is a treatment that seems to be widely used in Serbia. We found it when trying to determine what treatment Dr. Jordan Peterson used in Serbia. Pacenik, who is from the area, said that in Serbia they use Xenon and Flumazenil for benzo withdrawal. We found several clinics in Serbia that advertise Xenon inhalation therapy, for addiction and other things. So we started looking into it. Turns out, it's mechanism of action is that it modulates and desensitizes AMPA glutamate receptors. Hyper-sensitized/kindled AMPA/glutamate receptors is what many of us, including myself, have come to believe is at the root of many benzo withdrawal symptoms, particularly in cases of PAWS or setbacks. Furthermore, xenon's MOA does not appear to be merely a temporary NMDA antagonist, as again, we are talking modulation. Numerous studies posted here have shown that after several treatments, it can create long-lasting, potentially permanent changes to these receptors. This is, again what some of us believe, is exactly what needs to happen in our nervous systems. Long lasting attenuation and modulation of over-active glutamate receptors. It was also noted that he was treated by an anesthesiologist specifically. And xenon is used primarily as an anesthetic.

 

It's true we don't know any more details about what Dr. Peterson took and it is very much a leap to assume it was xenon. And no matter how many times we keep reiterating and arguing about that uncertainty in circles, or speculating more based on the tiny amount of info we have from his camp, we're not going to get anywhere. I think that's why ramcom jumped to a different thread. It was getting cluttered with discussions that were not furthering the conversation or the quest.

 

Xenon is in a few other countries, but Serbia seems to be a hotspot. Hence it's hypothesized connection to Dr. Peterson. Regardless though, moreso than it's connection to Serbia, it has very interesting science behind it. The aforementioned publications and studies, it's MOA, it all seems to be something that could potentially be very useful for us. That's why it's exciting now, to me. Not because I am certain Jordan Peterson got it - though, he might've - but because of the science.

 

 

if he found a treatment that worked. He would be ethically and duty-bound to share that knowledge immediately, and he has done that in the past with diet and other things, even though he wasn't able to confirm its efficacy ultimately.

 

Its like research ethics and professionalism 101. if you find a cure/treatment and you can alleviate a lot of suffering, you change course and rush to treat and alleviate suffering. He KNOWS that.

 

Given that, i think he therefore was just in a window when he talked about finding a treatment during that last interview in the OP.  because otherwise he wouldnt remain silent, he would tell the public his treatment to help others if it helped him.

 

I like Dr. Peterson and I do agree that he would be ethically and duty-bound to share this information. But after that video and the statements made, I think he is also ethically and duty-bound to follow up and tell people that it DIDN'T work. Which he has not done either. I am honestly surprised and question the ethics of not just making that information public right from the jump. Because it was helping him, very clearly. I don't know why you withhold that information. Of course, including the asterisk that 'this could just be a band-aid', 'we need to try this for a while to see if it's legit', 'don't jump to this treatment because we need more time to test it's efficacy for sure'. etc. etc... All of that makes sense. But why the secrecy in the first place?

 

Given that there has been no follow-up at all, positive or negative, I don't think your point really stands. Until they follow up on it, we won't know. But the silence is pretty bothersome, given the amount of people suffering and the amount of people who are surely dying (literally for some of us) of curiosity just for a small update. They planted seeds of hope in the video and then went radio silent. I respect their privacy, but like you said, many suffering people stand to benefit and many suffering people are now interested. 

 

...

I think xenon is a great place to start. Not because it seems obvious that Dr. Peterson received it, he may not have after all. But because it has logical science behind it. I am waiting very anxiously to hear accounts of users who give it a shot.

 

If we want to really really uncover the secrets behind Dr. Peterson's adventure, beyond hypotheticals of Serbian-based treatments or analyzing every word in the few sentences they provided us, then arguing in circles on this thread isn't going to help at all. We should reach out to Jordan and Mikhaila Peterson. Continue to request information. Let them know that there are so many suffering people who are sitting on the edges of their seats waiting for an update. Let them know that the information could save people's lives. Someone here said they had spoken to someone close to Dr. Peterson, reach out to them too. We do not currently have enough information to make conclusions or hypothesis beyond what we have done. So we should (along with trying xenon) go out and respectfully demand/search for information.

 

My two cents. 

 

Jordan Peterson is just one of the millions of benzo sufferers. His experience may or may not be relevant for the others. The problem with untested therapies, such as Xenon, are manifold. A lesser problem is if someone takes it, spends a lot of money on it and it doesn't help crushing hopes. A much bigger issue is that we don't know if it will harm someone who is in benzo withdrawal. That is always a possibility with any treatment including Xenon.

[[...]]

Jordan Peterson is just one of the millions of benzo sufferers. His experience may or may not be relevant for the others. The problem with untested therapies, such as Xenon, are manifold. A lesser problem is if someone takes it, spends a lot of money on it and it doesn't help crushing hopes. A much bigger issue is that we don't know if it will harm someone who is in benzo withdrawal. That is always a possibility with any treatment including Xenon.

 

Again. We all know all of this. This is benzo withdrawal 101.

We still find value in the discussion, the quest, and the calculated risks/trials.

If you do not, again, there are other threads.

[[Ma...]]

Jordan Peterson is just one of the millions of benzo sufferers. His experience may or may not be relevant for the others. The problem with untested therapies, such as Xenon, are manifold. A lesser problem is if someone takes it, spends a lot of money on it and it doesn't help crushing hopes. A much bigger issue is that we don't know if it will harm someone who is in benzo withdrawal. That is always a possibility with any treatment including Xenon.

 

Again. We all know all of this. This is benzo withdrawal 101.

We still find value in the discussion, the quest, and the calculated risks/trials.

If you do not, again, there are other threads.

 

I would not assume what others do or do not know.

[Guest [pa...]]

Mate...we started a new thread to avoid you. You're just trolling us now.

 

[[Co...]]

The idea that Jordan Peterson was treated with Xenon is totally baseless. Also, we simply don't know if he is feeling well now.

 

Mikheala and Jordan have referenced the Ashton manual, as well as demonstrated insider knowledge of the benzo buddies community consensus points.

 

if he found a treatment that worked. He would be ethically and duty-bound to share that knowledge immediately, and he has done that in the past with diet and other things, even though he wasn't able to confirm its efficacy ultimately.

 

Its like research ethics and professionalism 101. if you find a cure/treatment and you can alleviate a lot of suffering, you change course and rush to treat and alleviate suffering. He KNOWS that.

 

Given that, i think he therefore was just in a window when he talked about finding a treatment during that last interview in the OP.  because otherwise he wouldnt remain silent, he would tell the public his treatment to help others if it helped him.

 

That makes the most logical sense.

 

but agreed i dont know where this xenon treatment idea comes from and it seems out of left field. If someone could post to an explanation behind the xenon thing, that would be great, id like to look into it. but i dont see the connection to Jordan B Peterson.

 

Why would he be "ethically and duty-bound to share that knowledge immediately", when his report would be anecdotal? Neither is his an MD or pharmacologist. And, as you reported, he's done similar in the past (with diet) to what you now urge him to do here, and he was unable to demonstrate efficacy.

 

This is all highly speculative anyway. Unless I am mistaken, Peterson has not released any details of his treatment. And as I have already explained, it would prove nothing anyway, one way or the other. We should not base our medical decisions upon anecdote.

[[pi...]]

Mate...we started a new thread to avoid you. You're just trolling us now.

 

Lol. This.

 

but agreed i dont know where this xenon treatment idea comes from and it seems out of left field. If someone could post to an explanation behind the xenon thing, that would be great, id like to look into it. but i dont see the connection to Jordan B Peterson.

 

Xenon is a treatment that seems to be widely used in Serbia. We found it when trying to determine what treatment Dr. Jordan Peterson used in Serbia. Pacenik, who is from the area, said that in Serbia they use Xenon and Flumazenil for benzo withdrawal. We found several clinics in Serbia that advertise Xenon inhalation therapy, for addiction and other things. So we started looking into it. Turns out, it's mechanism of action is that it modulates and desensitizes AMPA glutamate receptors. Hyper-sensitized/kindled AMPA/glutamate receptors is what many of us, including myself, have come to believe is at the root of many benzo withdrawal symptoms, particularly in cases of PAWS or setbacks. Furthermore, xenon's MOA does not appear to be merely a temporary NMDA antagonist, as again, we are talking modulation. Numerous studies posted here have shown that after several treatments, it can create long-lasting, potentially permanent changes to these receptors. This is, again what some of us believe, is exactly what needs to happen in our nervous systems. Long lasting attenuation and modulation of over-active glutamate receptors. It was also noted that he was treated by an anesthesiologist specifically. And xenon is used primarily as an anesthetic.

 

It's true we don't know any more details about what Dr. Peterson took and it is very much a leap to assume it was xenon. And no matter how many times we keep reiterating and arguing about that uncertainty in circles, or speculating more based on the tiny amount of info we have from his camp, we're not going to get anywhere. I think that's why ramcom jumped to a different thread. It was getting cluttered with discussions that were not furthering the conversation or the quest.

 

Xenon is in a few other countries, but Serbia seems to be a hotspot. Hence it's hypothesized connection to Dr. Peterson. Regardless though, moreso than it's connection to Serbia, it has very interesting science behind it. The aforementioned publications and studies, it's MOA, it all seems to be something that could potentially be very useful for us. That's why it's exciting now, to me. Not because I am certain Jordan Peterson got it - though, he might've - but because of the science.

 

 

if he found a treatment that worked. He would be ethically and duty-bound to share that knowledge immediately, and he has done that in the past with diet and other things, even though he wasn't able to confirm its efficacy ultimately.

 

Its like research ethics and professionalism 101. if you find a cure/treatment and you can alleviate a lot of suffering, you change course and rush to treat and alleviate suffering. He KNOWS that.

 

Given that, i think he therefore was just in a window when he talked about finding a treatment during that last interview in the OP.  because otherwise he wouldnt remain silent, he would tell the public his treatment to help others if it helped him.

 

I like Dr. Peterson and I do agree that he would be ethically and duty-bound to share this information. But after that video and the statements made, I think he is also ethically and duty-bound to follow up and tell people that it DIDN'T work. Which he has not done either. I am honestly surprised and question the ethics of not just making that information public right from the jump. Because it was helping him, very clearly. I don't know why you withhold that information. Of course, including the asterisk that 'this could just be a band-aid', 'we need to try this for a while to see if it's legit', 'don't jump to this treatment because we need more time to test it's efficacy for sure'. etc. etc... All of that makes sense. But why the secrecy in the first place?

 

Given that there has been no follow-up at all, positive or negative, I don't think your point really stands. Until they follow up on it, we won't know. But the silence is pretty bothersome, given the amount of people suffering and the amount of people who are surely dying (literally for some of us) of curiosity just for a small update. They planted seeds of hope in the video and then went radio silent. I respect their privacy, but like you said, many suffering people stand to benefit and many suffering people are now interested. 

 

...

I think xenon is a great place to start. Not because it seems obvious that Dr. Peterson received it, he may not have after all. But because it has logical science behind it. I am waiting very anxiously to hear accounts of users who give it a shot.

 

If we want to really really uncover the secrets behind Dr. Peterson's adventure, beyond hypotheticals of Serbian-based treatments or analyzing every word in the few sentences they provided us, then arguing in circles on this thread isn't going to help at all. We should reach out to Jordan and Mikhaila Peterson. Continue to request information. Let them know that there are so many suffering people who are sitting on the edges of their seats waiting for an update. Let them know that the information could save people's lives. Someone here said they had spoken to someone close to Dr. Peterson, reach out to them too. We do not currently have enough information to make conclusions or hypothesis beyond what we have done. So we should (along with trying xenon) go out and respectfully demand/search for information.

 

My two cents. 

 

thanks for the background, appreciate the time it took to write that. Very interesting stuff honestly. I'm excited about it too. Ive never heard of xenon as a treatment. although to be honest there's a bit of a limitation to my hope on these treatments.

 

Mainly because we dont understand the pathophysiology of the disease process itself. The concept of up or down regulation of GABA receptors etc with benzo injury is just a hypothesis that hasnt been proven. Its the same as the dopamine hypothesis for the anti depressants. Its an educated guess.

 

So going from there to coming up with a treatment that potentially works on correcting our hypothesis thats not been validated, is a stab in the dark unfortunately. We really do need that pathophysiology first. Once we understand that mechanism, we can interrupt it. Our weakness is that the brain is the site of the issue. its a central CNS receptor issue (we think) and thats like a last frontier for scientific discovery. we dont understand how it all works in that organ like we do others. the brain doesn't have simple, linear, logistical causal mechanistic processes like you can see in other organs and systems - which makes it a nightmare to design drugs for. Thats why CNS acting drugs always have so many side effects. cause its a storm of molecules and compounds up there interacting in ways we cant actually see comprehend yet, and to make it worse, they need a symphony like harmony to work right. Our drugs usually work on simple mechanistic processes we understand like the dopamine pathway, it tries to work on just one process. Its one of the reasons i was always uncomfortable with psychiatric medications, cause i know how little we actually know about what we are doing with those drugs. The idea of Benzo drugs "worked" in theory, because they went really upstream and bypassed the complexity issue, and tried to do a override or shutdown of the whole process. the idea was potentially good but even that has had horrible unintended consequences which we are now seeing

 

to the point about jordan being silent as you say. I would just say that i think your expectations of a new benzo sufferer are a bit high here. Hes obviously not in the best state of mind, the guy was delusional for days, in a chemically induced coma, had pneuomonia, now in acute benzo withdrawal and was in his first 2 week window. Give him a break lol. He did have the lucidness to at least try to tell his story, but obviously he is not a faithful narrator just yet, and mikheala tried to pick up the slack but she has no medical background so her retelling showed flaws of understanding in medical knowledge, i.e. the misnaming of drugs like i linked to. I would also add that Jordan is very new to all this, he is probably still acclimating to the fact that much of what he thought he knew about these drugs WAS WRONG. Trust me as a person who works in a field similar, this is confidence shattering, and you feel like you need to shut your mouth and just watch for a while. Also there is competing ethical dilemmas here, on one side you have that ethical responsibility to interrupt what your doing and provide whatever news or discovery you have to those suffering, but on the other hand, you cant be seen or interpreted to be providing medical advice without the appropriate process that goes with it.

 

For instance, even when he gave his diet info he said clearly and repeatedly "i am now speaking as an uninformed citizen" and gave the appropriate medical disclaimers. Here is different, this is HIS FIELD in many ways. he has qualifications within this area or at least adjacent, his anecdotal opinions can be easily misconstrued as prescriptive medical advice by laymen. If someone ran out to try what helped him and then got sicker or worse, he would be medically liable or at least ethically liable if he didn't explain those opinions in full with a professional assessment of the evidence on hand (and his following is in the high millions now so he wouldnt be able to afford all the lawsuits that come from that). And i just dont think hes cognitively ready to do that anyway. Listen to him in the video, he sounds shell shocked and broken, thats a patient talking, not a psychologist. and he didn't even address the platform of how he was talking, like if i was close to him i would advise him to articulate that at the start, that he is talking as a unqualified patient and not as a health professional here.

 

Once hes on his feet again, i have no doubt he will investigate and give a good summary of the issue with sensible medical advice he would give from his psychologist chair. but hes not there yet IMO.

 

just lastly, i wholeheartedly agree with the point about going out and requesting more and more info. I salute you and stand with you and others who do that, no argument there.

 

Just for my two cents though, there are sudden shifts from compassion to despair and frustration in the community that are noticeable. there's a lot of suffering here obviously so i understand the release valve going off. but going aggressively at sufferers for their story not being transparent or accurate enough will only lead to sadness for all. Milking a dry udder gets you kicked off the stool as they say. I think hes grasping at straws and hes giving us what he can.

[[pi...]]

Jordan Peterson is just one of the millions of benzo sufferers. His experience may or may not be relevant for the others. The problem with untested therapies, such as Xenon, are manifold. A lesser problem is if someone takes it, spends a lot of money on it and it doesn't help crushing hopes. A much bigger issue is that we don't know if it will harm someone who is in benzo withdrawal. That is always a possibility with any treatment including Xenon.

 

Again. We all know all of this. This is benzo withdrawal 101.

We still find value in the discussion, the quest, and the calculated risks/trials.

If you do not, again, there are other threads.

 

agree with this sentiment. its worth the discussion even if it doesn't go anywhere. How is it helpful to just be cynical.

[[pi...]]

The idea that Jordan Peterson was treated with Xenon is totally baseless. Also, we simply don't know if he is feeling well now.

 

Mikheala and Jordan have referenced the Ashton manual, as well as demonstrated insider knowledge of the benzo buddies community consensus points.

 

if he found a treatment that worked. He would be ethically and duty-bound to share that knowledge immediately, and he has done that in the past with diet and other things, even though he wasn't able to confirm its efficacy ultimately.

 

Its like research ethics and professionalism 101. if you find a cure/treatment and you can alleviate a lot of suffering, you change course and rush to treat and alleviate suffering. He KNOWS that.

 

Given that, i think he therefore was just in a window when he talked about finding a treatment during that last interview in the OP.  because otherwise he wouldnt remain silent, he would tell the public his treatment to help others if it helped him.

 

That makes the most logical sense.

 

but agreed i dont know where this xenon treatment idea comes from and it seems out of left field. If someone could post to an explanation behind the xenon thing, that would be great, id like to look into it. but i dont see the connection to Jordan B Peterson.

 

Why would he be "ethically and duty-bound to share that knowledge immediately", when his report would be anecdotal? Neither is his an MD or pharmacologist. And, as you reported, he's done similar in the past (with diet) to what you now urge him to do here, and he was unable to demonstrate efficacy.

 

This is all highly speculative anyway. Unless I am mistaken, Peterson has not released any details of his treatment. And as I have already explained, it would prove nothing anyway, one way or the other. We should not base our medical decisions upon anecdote.

 

firstly, I agree we should not base our medical decisions upon anecdote, i think your straw manning a bit here. I never advocated this.

 

secondly, its benzos, its all speculation bud, this is the essence of our nightmare, so take it all with a grain of salt - we agree on this.

 

thirdly, hes not an MD or pharmacologist, he is a psychologist so hes a health professional. and health professionals are versed in ethics of medicine, Do no harm, beneficence versus non maleficence, autonomy versus paternalism etc. So he falls under the umbrella of the 'healer' which comes with ethical considerations. and as a psychologist, ethics is like bread and butter for them cause they deal with cognitive vectors and processes. basically, there are common agreed upon moral and social mores and attitudes in the medical community like any other. One of them is, if you are researching or looking into something or know something about something that would alleviate suffering or stop harm coming to a patient, you are duty bound ethically to speak up. The question of efficacy is why i think he hesitated to go all the way and tell us his treatment. 2 weeks isnt long enough to determine long term effectiveness. thats probably why he didn't say it, i think your right on that point. hope that explains it though. again its not like this a law of medicine, its ethics. ethics is always subjective but there general themes and attitudes you can observe that rise to the top and become accepted in the community.

[[Sh...]]

The idea that Jordan Peterson was treated with Xenon is totally baseless. Also, we simply don't know if he is feeling well now.

 

Mate...we started a new thread to avoid you. You're just trolling us now.

 

Shamo3,

 

All contributions to a thread as long as they conform to forum policies and relate to the topic are welcome, your comment is not.

 

Pamster

 

Weve been through this whole thing on the last JP thread where he took up half the thread. So hes going to follow us around every new thread we start and keep writing the same things?

[[ra...]]

Great post Nov, and all those contributing.

 

I am not sure how we "found out" that Dr. Peterson was treated at the Vorobjev clinics in Serbia.  I am in email correspondence with them now.  I mentioned Dr. Peterson as a reference point, and they of course rightly said they do not discuss individual cases. I of course did not want any information on Dr. Peterson, I wanted information on what they do. 

 

So far I have learned two things:

 

There are 2 clinics associated with Vorobjev.  The VIP clinic, which seems to be catered to foreign clientele.  They mention rides to the airport and spacious rooms suitable for a companion.  That clinic specifically mentions benzodiazepine addiction (yes, it is unfortunate that they classify us with other addicts, but I am not going to get upset about semantics if they are actually helping people):

https://vipvorobjev.com/en/benzodiazepine-addiction/

 

Then the other clinic, (less VIP?) specifically mentions xenon gas:

https://drvorobjev.com/en/xenon-gas/

 

I am emailing back and forth to gather information.  I am real sick buddies.  Up until a few months ago, I had confidence I could pull this off myself.  I am less sure of that now, and am seriously considering going to Serbia.

 

If someone could post why we think it was a Vorobjev clinic that treated Dr. Peterson that would be helpful.

I will report back anything I find out.

 

Thanks buddies,

 

Ramcon1

 

PS I was not a fan of Dr. Peterson before this, and I mean that literally.  I did not like or dislike him, I knew nothing about him.  A friend of mine is a fan, and sent me the link to his interview. To me he is just a man with a psychology PhD, so that would give him modest medical knowledge, and a semi-prominent public figure (evidently outside my scope) which gave him substantial wealth such that when he found himself debilitated by benzos, unlike us, his family could literally scour the globe looking for treatment.  I have no idea or even a feeling as to if he would feel obligated to share what worked or didn't because I know literally nothing about the man.

[[...]]

Pacenik - is this upcoming week when the anesthesiologist at the Serbia xenon clinic is back in town? I'd love to know what day you plan on giving it a shot if so!

 

Having a mare - what are your current plans with the Prague xenon clinic, if any?

 

I hope you guys are feeling alright. I'm very grateful for input from both of you and I'm wishing you the very best.

~ excited to hear from you.

 

Ramcon - Good to hear from you!! We found the Vorobjev clinic by looking for Serbian detox/addiction clinics operated by anesthesiologists. Since that was what Dr. Peterson and his daughter mentioned. Vorobjev was the most prominent and notable to check both boxes, so we theorized that as his possible destination. However, someone here was apparently in discussion with someone close to Dr. P and from the wording of their conversation, it seems to me that he could've actually gone somewhere else in Serbia... Vorobjev seems to be the best place to 'detox', but beyond that I'm unsure if they normally treat people who have been off for some time... Though, as you mentioned, one of their clinics DOES offer xenon. There seems to be a few different places in Serbia that have an anesthesiologist on staff using xenon therapy for a variety of things though. Pacenik is planning to go to one, for example. 

 

Ultimately, just as we don't have the evidence to conclude what Dr. P was treated with, we don't have sufficient evidence to determine where he went either. Unfortunately. So, as mentioned before, I think our two best bets to progress are to try these xenon clinics and reach out to people in the know and the Petersons directly in hopes to acquire more info. And let them know how many people stand to benefit from their experience... respectfully, of course. I know Dr. P was battling COVID and stuff, so I do not advocate being obnoxious or pushy in our quest. But if more people simply reach out and ask them, they may be more apt to provide some additional information.

 

In the meantime, Ramcon, hopefully our European buddies can provide some info/accounts on their upcoming xenon experiences. I too am seriously considering a flight to Europe in the near future. Stay strong, friend!

[Guest [pa...]]

I'm supposed to go tommorow.

[[Ha...]]

I've booked my flight, but am still a bit unsure to be honest. I'm just so sensitive, and am starting to think most of my damage is due to the SSRI and want to do some more research. But been in a wave for a week and haven't been upto it

[[Ha...]]

I'm supposed to go tommorow.

 

Good luck

[Guest [pa...]]

Thanks.

[[...]]

I'm supposed to go tommorow.

 

Excellent. I'll be tuned in tomorrow to hear about your experience. 

 

I've booked my flight, but am still a bit unsure to be honest. I'm just so sensitive, and am starting to think most of my damage is due to the SSRI and want to do some more research. But been in a wave for a week and haven't been upto it

 

I can relate on the sensitivity. If I could use one word to sum up how I feel, it is sensitive. Sensitive to light, sound, touch, temperature, foods, pain, anxiety, supplements, medications, etc. etc. The tiniest things that would never bother a normal person, or me before all of this began, set my fragile nervous system on fire. I think, for me, it's those hyper-excited glutamate receptors firing off at any type of stimulation.

 

I hope your wave ends soon...! Keep us posted and hang in there!

[[ra...]]

Nov,

 

Thanks for the clarification.  Vorobjev is our "educated guess" as to where Dr. Peterson went.

 

Pacenick,

 

I gather you are not going to Vorobjev.  If you don't mind our asking, where are you going? Do they have a website?

 

And Having-a-mare,

 

If you don't mind our asking, are you going to Vorobjev, or where are you going?

 

PS I was up all night, and I mean all night.  I am critically folate and biotin deficient, so I started microdosing both last week.  I thought they might be revving me up, so I took a break last night, and I was up all night with "histamine heart flutter."  I took the folic acid and biotin (20 and 100 MICROgrams respectively) and the heart flutter went away, and I now feel moderately revved up.  Sigh.  This is why I am starting to think if I do not get some professional help, I am not going to walk away from this. 

 

Ramcon1

[[ra...]]

FYI if you google "xenon gas treatment centers" Vorobjev is the first four hits.

[[Ha...]]

Nov,

 

Thanks for the clarification.  Vorobjev is our "educated guess" as to where Dr. Peterson went.

 

Pacenick,

 

I gather you are not going to Vorobjev.  If you don't mind our asking, where are you going? Do they have a website?

 

And Having-a-mare,

 

If you don't mind our asking, are you going to Vorobjev, or where are you going?

 

PS I was up all night, and I mean all night.  I am critically folate and biotin deficient, so I started microdosing both last week.  I thought they might be revving me up, so I took a break last night, and I was up all night with "histamine heart flutter."  I took the folic acid and biotin (20 and 100 MICROgrams respectively) and the heart flutter went away, and I now feel moderately revved up.  Sigh.  This is why I am starting to think if I do not get some professional help, I am not going to walk away from this. 

 

Ramcon1

 

Sorry you're still suffering Ramcon, it's awful we can't take anything that helps.

 

I've booked to go a place in Prague

 

https://www.xenonclinic.com/en/xenon-inhalation-therapy/

 

Booked 1 tester for the Monday, followed by 2 a day for the rest of the week if all goes well.

[Guest [pa...]]

I gather you are not going to Vorobjev.  If you don't mind our asking, where are you going? Do they have a website?

Internal Medicine Clinic

http://bestageforever.com/portfolio/xenon-therapy/

[[ra...]]

Pacenik and Having-a-mare,

 

That was very kind of you to share that info.  I do not pray, but I am sure that everyone here that does is praying for you.  I am just hoping VERY hard.  It is all we atheists have.  But seriously, good luck and please let us know how it turns out for you.

 

PPS I am fully aware that over the past few months "I have lost a step and a half." But I have posted a dozen times before then that one day soon, others will draw the same conclusion I have: that benzo wd, IBS, autism, and many psychiatric disorders have the same root cause: dysfunctional glutamate.  Look at this from the US xenon inhaler company:

https://www.nobilistx.com/clinical-development-program/

 

I might email them and tell them to put epilepsy on the list too.

Note, I am not saying I "discovered" anything.  I just drew a conclusion based on the dozens of papers I read, and here is the first time I saw "in print" a company that seems to have drawn the same conclusion, or knowing modern medicine, they probably just guessed well ;-)

 

Ramcon1

[[Co...]]

What is the basis for using xenon gas as a benzodiazepine withdrawal treatment? Will someone please point me to credible trials/research/literature.

 

Thanks.

[[...]]

What is the basis for using xenon gas as a benzodiazepine withdrawal treatment? Will someone please point me to credible trials/research/literature.

 

Thanks.

 

Colin - If you read back just a page or two on this thread, I recently posted a detailed response to the same question you just posed; explaining our current interest and thinking regarding xenon & benzo withdrawal.