Sleep Will Return!

[Guest [sc...]]

I’ve had debilitating insomnia.  I tried everything.  THC helped but it’s not legal in my state and I was no longer able to obtain it.  Then I discovered Delta 8 which is derived from CBD.  It’s not legal in all states but it is in mine.  I started taking the gummies and not only do I sleep but my severe RLS and neuropathy in my feet at night are gone.  Last night I took a gummy, put the tv timer on and the next thing I remember is waking up and looking at the clock and it was 9am….that’s as good as it gets.

[[He...]]

I’ve had debilitating insomnia.  I tried everything.  THC helped but it’s not legal in my state and I was no longer able to obtain it.  Then I discovered Delta 8 which is derived from CBD.  It’s not legal in all states but it is in mine.  I started taking the gummies and not only do I sleep but my severe RLS and neuropathy in my feet at night are gone.  Last night I took a gummy, put the tv timer on and the next thing I remember is waking up and looking at the clock and it was 9am….that’s as good as it gets.

 

I'm so happy for you! Last night, I had 7 to 8 hours of sleep but I have plenty of nights where I get very, very little or none. I tried CBD and it didn't do much for me. Maybe as I get further along in my recovery, it will work better for me. Well see.

[Guest [sc...]]

I’ve had debilitating insomnia.  I tried everything.  THC helped but it’s not legal in my state and I was no longer able to obtain it.  Then I discovered Delta 8 which is derived from CBD.  It’s not legal in all states but it is in mine.  I started taking the gummies and not only do I sleep but my severe RLS and neuropathy in my feet at night are gone.  Last night I took a gummy, put the tv timer on and the next thing I remember is waking up and looking at the clock and it was 9am….that’s as good as it gets.

 

I'm so happy for you! Last night, I had 7 to 8 hours of sleep but I have plenty of nights where I get very, very little or none. I tried CBD and it didn't do much for me. Maybe as I get further along in my recovery, it will work better for me. Well see.

 

Thank you. I tried CBD and it wasn’t helpful but the d8 has been a godsend.  Best of luck to you.

[[He...]]

I was getting several 5+ hour nights and even a few 7+ hour nights and now I am back down to less than 4 hours. The night before last was a zero for me. I am going to DRAG myself to the gym (I don't really want to go. I am so tired:() to see if that helps my sleep out at all.

 

I can't wait for the day that I can sleep 8+ hours a night like I used to before Xanax.

 

BUMP

[[Th...]]

HM,

 

You're healing and getting better with each passing day, even though it may NOT feel like it.

 

But put your faith and trust in the "process" that time will heal you and you are healing and not in how you feel. 

 

This is such a roller coaster ride for most that if we only rely on how we feel, we'll think we are never getting better or that we'll be stuck for a long time....LIES!

 

You've got this!

[[Go...]]

Hi folks! I need some help with insomnia as well.

 

I've been on Klonazepam for about 6 months (doses ranged from 0.25 to 0.75-1mg towards the end) then cold turkeyed in early October. I went on Klonazepam because of the insomnia to start with. I then took some Zopiclone which helped me get a good couple of hours each night. On good nights, I'd get 6-7 hours and on bad nights, 3-4 hours. I also took Diazepam 4mg for a very short while (last dose was about 2.5-3 weeks ago), which helped.

 

Last night I got 0 hours sleep and I'm terrified, having never experienced that before! I regularly take herbal remedies (valerian, melatonin) and OTC sleep aids, but I was wide awake all night. Could this be due to Zopiclone discontinuation 2 days ago? Did others have similar experiences when stopping Zopiclone? I also half convinced myself (being a hypochondriac) that it's fatal insomnia...but I'm starting to see a CBT therapist in the hope she can help with some of the thought patterns !

 

Thanks for any help you can provide

[[Th...]]

Yes, it's almost certainly due to discontinuing Zopiclone. 

 

After I did a CT from the Benzos and other drugs I was on I didn't get any sleep for 4 nights in a row.  I had about 70 totally sleepless nights over the next 9-10 months.

 

It slowly evens out over time after you are completely off of all Benzos and/or Z-drugs

 

What to expect:

 

1) Lots of very little or no sleep for an extended period of time. Not sure how long that will be, but Ashton says at least 6-12 months for most.  Some 12-24, and a small percentage 24 months or longer.

2) Drugs are a dead end road.  Drugs = artificial sleep.  Tolerance is reached in X amount of time (different for everyone) then the dose must be increased for the drug to have the same effect.  That is why you should try to avoid all Rx drugs, not just Benzos.  All of them have side effects and possible withdrawal?

3) Natural supplements are also not advised either.  Why?  You emotionally and physically convince your already weakened brain that it must take something in order to sleep.  I know...easy for me to say now that I sleep pretty well most nights.  I tried them all too and they didn't help much early on or later during my withdrawal.  There is also new research regarding melatonin, it is actually a hormone that the body produces and daily supplementation could lead to the body not producing it any longer.  It is meant to reset your internal clock and is designed for short-term use only.

3) Benzos are short-term use only drugs (2 - 3 weeks max) that doctors love to prescribe for whatever length of time as most don't know about withdrawal or even acknowledge it exists.  Benzos shut down or suppress your Gabba receptors in your brain; what helps you remain calm and relaxed.  When those stop working, Glutamate takes over and it is what makes you active and alert.  That is why you can't sleep.  Your sleep switch is broken.  It takes time for your sleep switch to fix itself.  Unfortunately it is not like breaking a leg or arm where healing times are pretty consistent.  See #1 above for time.

4) Most people won't understand what you are going through, even your spouse, boyfriend, girlfriend, family, etc.  Outward you look normal, inward you are messed up, but they can't see that.  They might have a hard time understanding, accepting or even having sympathy for you.

5) It gets better over time.  Time allows your brain to "learn" how to sleep again on its own, without any type of drug or supplement.  All brains heal...just as drugs affect all of us differently, all brains heal at different speeds.  That is why some people can be on a Benzo for 10 years or longer before they reach tolerance and some people never go through withdrawal; however, almost everyone experiences some form of insomnia.

6) The amount of time you were on Benzos does not = how fast you will recover.  In some cases it does, but for others it does not.  I was on Benzos for 6 months and recovered fairly quickly, but others that were on only a few weeks took longer to recover.

7) Recovery will be up and down, like the stock market (well maybe that's not a good example as it has been doing well this past year) but you can expect to have some good days and bad days with the good days eventually becoming more frequent than the bad days and finally becoming almost or all goods days over time.

Immediately after going Benzo free, either through a proper taper or cold turkey, you will most likely experience "acute withdrawal" a period of usually 30 - 90 days of intense withdrawal symptoms and lack of any real sleep.  I went 4 days without any sleep after I went cold turkey on a doctor's advice.

9) Things slowly get better, usually you will notice a difference by month 6.  But it is slow.  Sort of like how we transition from summer to winter and back again...the days get longer and shorter very gradually.

10) Windows and Waves. Windows are good periods where your symptoms reduce or go away and you feel better.  Waves are crummy periods where your symptoms are at their worst and you feel like crap and sleep sucks.  Most people alternate between Windows and Waves until eventually the Windows last longer than the Waves and the Waves mostly or completely disappear over time.

11) When sleep starts to return, it will be light and broken (you will wake up a lot) and most people experience REM REBOUND or lots of dreams.  Later on your sleep will slowly turn to deeper sleep with less dreams and longer periods of sleep before waking up.

 

What you can do:

 

1) Be as POSITIVE as you can be given the crappy circumstances.  Try to laugh if you can.

2) DISTRACT yourself as much as possible.  Focus on anything that gives you enjoyment.  Don't focus on NEGATIVE things or hang around NEGATIVE people

3) Do not try to FORCE yourself to sleep.  It is not possible.  You cannot make yourself sleep no matter how hard you try.  It happens naturally when you are relaxed and NOT thinking about it.

4) ACCEPT (very hard to do for most) your situation and know that there is an end to it, it won't last forever.  It is only TEMPORARY!

5) Try not to CARE if you Sleep or Not.  When you stop caring if you sleep or not, it will slowly start to return.  Again, difficult to do, but others that have regular insomnia not caused by drug withdrawal cured their insomnia by not giving a rat's butt if they slept or not.  Takes time, is difficult to do, but works for most.

6) Eat Healthy, Drink lots of water, Exercise even if you don't feel like it or think that you can do it because you are too tired.  Also, be careful with caffeine.  Caffeine is a stimulant.  Some folks have no issues drinking coffee or soda during withdrawal; others are affected by it.

7) Be careful with supplements.  Some may excite your already sensitive nervous system. Some worked for me.  Mostly Green powders for a shake.  Again, try some experimentation to see how you are affected.

Pray.  Some of you may not be a "believer" in God, but prayer works.

9) Maybe take a break from this site for awhile, when you can, and it works for you.  This site is a tremendous help for many, but I found myself making other people's recovery process and experience my own.  I took about a 5 month break and did an amazing amount of recovery during that time.  I came back as I promised to help others get through withdrawal and because I don't think people should go through this ordeal alone.

10) ACCEPT the RECOVERY PROCESS and don't put a time frame on it for getting better.  For example, don't expect to get better by month 8 because someone else did.  In the same light, don't expect it to take 5 years or longer either, as it may have for a very small percentage of people on this site.

11) Seek counseling when beneficial and affordable.  It helped me cope when I was at my worst.

12) Be THANKFUL for any sleep you do get.  Some light sleep is better than no sleep.  Practice GRATITUDE for whatever you can in your life.

 

Final parting words:

 

You don't have FATAL Insomnia.  I thought I did, many others did/do too.  You don't have that, it's all withdrawal.  Lack of sleep will NOT kill you.  A drive by shooting could, but sleep deprivation will not!

You often get more sleep than you think, even microsleep (that most are unaware of) helps keep you going when insomnia is at its worst.

If you can't sleep, just lay in bed and do your best to relax.  Laying still can still help your body recover a little versus getting up and doing something or freaking out over the fact that you are not sleeping.

Even after you recover, expect some "off" or "bad" nights of sleep from time to time.

Never take another Benzo, ever, don't keep any in your house and don't see a doctor that will write you another prescription.

Don't Google sleep related diseases or "possible" things that could happen to you from lack of sleep.  It only adds fuel to the already out of control fire in your mind.

Acupuncture did not work for me, neither did CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy), sleep restriction, or other methods of "alternative" ways to help with sleep.  These might work for some people after their nervous system settles down?

There are not "magic" cures or special supplements you can take from some exotic land to get past recovery quicker.  I paid $7,000 to go to the Coleman Institute in Virginia to try his Flumazenil treatment for 1 week and that may have helped speed up my recovery but I have no way to know that and if it did work it certainly was not immediate.  Unfortunately the only way out is through the recovery process.  It is difficult and no fun at all, but you will get through it, eventually.

Read the Success Stories on this site for hope and encouragement.

Be mentally as STRONG as you can be and consider this a FIGHT.  FIGHT to get your "old" life back.  I was mentally SUPER WEAK after jumping CT.  I got a lot stronger mentally over time.

Be careful with ALCOHOL or anything containing alcohol as it acts on Gabba just like Benzos.  My advice would be to completely avoid all forms of alcohol including those in OTC remedies.

Most of the time, whatever you were experiencing or caused you to go on Benzos in the first place, is much easier to deal with.  If you started taking Benzos for sleep, then after recovery, you will typically have the tools and coping mechanisms to deal with a poor night of sleep much better than you did before you started taking Benzos and especially after you are healed.

Almost all of the people that suffered the most and had the worst insomnia on this site eventually healed to some degree.  Not always to 100%, but enough to lead an acceptable life.

This process will make you incredibly strong and make you grateful for each day.  You will have a newfound appreciation for life in general after you are healed.

 

Work to inform your doctors and health care providers that Benzo withdrawal is real.

 

 

 

[[Go...]]

Thanks Theway - super helpful!

 

I thought, since I only took Klonazepam for just under 6 months, that withdrawal wouldn't last too long but it seems it's a case by case basis. At least no more tremors/twitching has diminished radically and I did have some nights with colourful dreams (which has to be good, right?)

 

I've asked my GP for more Z drugs but he won't prescribe anymore - any tips for what to do in the meantime i.e. how not to go mad because of sleeplessness? 

 

 

[[Th...]]

Z-drugs are just "benzos in disguise" as they work on GABA just like a Benzo does.

 

All of my tips are listed in the above post.  Unfortunately there are no shortcuts or ways to speed up this process.  TIME is the healer.

 

You won't die from lack of sleep.  Your body will get all the sleep it needs until it starts to return.  You won't go mad either.  It only feels like you're going to die or go mad.

Most of it is how you respond to not sleeping.  Many times I purposely stayed awake to drive cross country (24 hours straight) and then stayed awake the next day until nighttime.

Under Benzos, I was freaked out...when doing it on purpose, I was fine with it!

 

For more advice and tips read this link: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=235100.0  It contains everything in the post above and a lot more!

 

 

Good luck.

[[Re...]]

GM,

 

I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree that what you are experiencing is the effects of discontinuing Zopiclone. I was on the stuff for just seven weeks and it completely destroyed my bodys ability to sleep naturally. I had an awful time, it was about a year ago, genuinely thought I was going to die and that I had SFI. Zopiclone actually has a side effect of delusional thoughts which I definitely had, it affected my personality and the intra dose withdrawal was horrific as I would get extreme anxiety once the drug had worn off after 12 hours. They are pure evil in what they can do to some people. My sleep after I stopped looked like this in terms of hours per night....

 

0,0,0,0,4,0,0,0,0,0,4,0,0,0,5...this pattern continued for about 3 weeks then slowly it became 0,7,0,7,0 then the nights I wasnt sleeping I slowly started picking up an hour here and there. It was rubbish sleep too because the drug massively affects your sleep switch. I only started getting normal sleep in terms of quality about 6-7 months after. Now I can sleep absolutely fine, I can go for naps again and nod off on the sofa. I never thought this would be possible in the heat of withdrawal. I was so scared at times. You will get there, I back up everything TheWay2 says. Its very accurate

 

R

[[Go...]]

Thanks RedOne and Theway I find it so reassuring that others have gone through a similar experience, and that the body does heal! On a practical level, how do you cope with 0 nights, or nights where you get close to 0 sleep? Did you replace the Z drugs with anything OTC, or herbal remedies?

 

I did nap from 11 to 2 yesterday. I surprised myself as I didn't think napping was possible any longer haha.

 

Also I find it really odd that I'm not super tired once I decide to wake up. I just get out of bed and get on with my day, and have enough energy to complete work tasks and even go to yoga or for a walk. Was this your experience too, or were you tired the following day?

[[Th...]]

I would lay in bed and rest your body on the zero nights.  Learn how to meditate.  Listen to soothing, relaxing music.  Use the restroom as needed, but don't get out of bed "until you're tired" as you'll most likely be out of bed all night?  Sleep hygiene tips/suggestions CANNOT touch Benzo-induced insomnia!

 

GABA (your body's "brake pedal) receptors are taken off line by the Benzo.  They need to heal and/or regrow.  Glutamate (your body's "gas pedal") receptors now rule the day and night.  Normally GABA and Glutamate are in balance so one doesn't overtake the other.  But since Benzos temporarily took your GABA offline; Glutamate (that also controls fight or flight) makes you feel "wired" all the time, even when you get little or no sleep.

 

That's why many times after going like RedOne said...0,0,0, 4, 0, 2, 0 3, 0, 0 5 hours per night....I never felt tired.

 

It's amazing that you're able to nap already.  It took almost a year after my CT before I could even get a 15 minute nap.

 

Nothing OTC or herbal worked for me for more than a night or 2 tops so I stopped taking everything...

 

Everything you are experiencing is "normal" coming off of a z-drug.

[[Go...]]

TheWay,

 

Many many thanks for all these wisdom gems ! I do find Lauren Ostrowski's sleep meditations on Youtube are my go-to.

 

I have another random question...my doctor just called, said he wants me to try amytriptilline for sleep. It's an anti depressant. At this stage, I'm super cautious and careful not to put any more crap into my body but he insists that sleep is super important, and this is apparently not addictive. I know we can't give out medical advice on here but wondered if you'd had any experience with that?

 

Thanks

GM

[Guest [An...]]

TheWay,

 

Many many thanks for all these wisdom gems ! I do find Lauren Ostrowski's sleep meditations on Youtube are my go-to.

 

I have another random question...my doctor just called, said he wants me to try amytriptilline for sleep. It's an anti depressant. At this stage, I'm super cautious and careful not to put any more crap into my body but he insists that sleep is super important, and this is apparently not addictive. I know we can't give out medical advice on here but wondered if you'd had any experience with that?

 

Thanks

GM

 

I was able to get some sleep with a rotation of Mirtazapine, Cannabis, and Supplements, switching every 2 weeks. Doing this I was getting around 3hr sleep every day on the 2nd month (the 1st month was similar to RedOne's case). Some nights I'd get zero even taking something. 3rd month I started getting around 4hr daily, with some days zero, but more sleep than non-sleep. I went back to work like this. 4th month was around the same, but 5th month I started getting 8hr all of a sudden with my rotation, so I went off everything, and did not sleep the next day, but started sleeping constantly 5hr every night after that, on nothing. It was the first time I didn't need to cram something into me to sleep. It was an interesting experience, to finally feel out of that tunnel I was trapped in. I still had some zero days due to stress, but the next night I'd get at least 4hr natural, usually 5hr.

 

I probably would have went for months without any sleep at all if I hadn't used something to help. I understand the fear of getting dependent on something else, and the doses losing effect. I experienced that first hand, which is why I researched to see if I would find 2 or 3 drugs or supps that worked different enough that my body could recover from the first one while the 2nd one was kicking in. For some that method may not work.

[[Th...]]

TheWay,

 

Many many thanks for all these wisdom gems ! I do find Lauren Ostrowski's sleep meditations on Youtube are my go-to.

 

I have another random question...my doctor just called, said he wants me to try amytriptilline for sleep. It's an anti depressant. At this stage, I'm super cautious and careful not to put any more crap into my body but he insists that sleep is super important, and this is apparently not addictive. I know we can't give out medical advice on here but wondered if you'd had any experience with that?

 

Thanks

GM

 

GM,

 

With all drugs, there are possible side effects and the need to taper off?  I know a BB (MTFan) that was on Amitriptyline for some time for sleep and had some issues getting off of it.  I took it one time and I don't remember if I got any sleep or not from it.  If you do decide to use it, I would not take it every night.  Maybe save it for the nights that might end up being zero or close to zero?  Yes, sleep is super important, but not when you have TEMPORARY damage to your Central Nervous System--specifically your GABA receptors.  And regardless of what your doctor says, nothing bad is going to happen to you from short-term ( a few years or less) of Benzo-induced insomnia.  I'm not saying you'll have poor sleep that long, just saying that even if you did, you'll be fine.

 

Good luck.

[[Ne...]]

I am reading an awesome book by Gregg D. Jacobs called Say goodnight to insomnia.  I 100% agree that benzo withdrawal insomnia is very different than insomnia in general but negative  (and incorrect) thoughts that develop from not sleeping are the same.  This book helps you not fear not sleeping and should help during your recovery.  The book supports the advice I got from a BB early on that one should not fear sleeping and that often times you sleep when you think you are not.

[[Th...]]

Yes, not fearing if you sleep or not goes a long way toward getting some sleep.

 

Alohafromhawaii told me that he would go to bed with the expectation of not getting any sleep at all...none!

He was going to lay in bed and rest his body.  He was going to relax by listening to soothing music and meditating

 

Then if he did nod off, or get some sleep he was pleasantly surprised and somewhat happy.  If he were expecting 4+ hours and then got 1 hour, he'd be ticked off and with good reason.

It took awhile, but I ended up doing the same thing.  It wasn't easy at first, but "accepting" your insomnia as being "normal" until it evens out goes a long way toward getting sleep back.

 

The main issue in getting past insomnia lies in how you react to nights of poor sleep.

 

Expectations vs. Reality.  When our expectations are not matched by reality, we get ticked off, frustrated, disappointed, etc.

Lower your expectations regarding sleep, then if it doesn't come the way you "expected" it to come, you won't be disappointed.

 

Good luck!

[[Go...]]

Hi all,

 

Happy holidays and I hope people are getting some sleep to keep them ticking along during the season!

 

My sleep has started to improve over the last few weeks, and by that I should caveat that I'm getting more than 0 - 2 hours, which I was averaging 3 weeks ago. My sleep now averages 4-5 hours, and I've even managed to pull off a couple of 6-7-8 hour nights and felt totally refreshed the next day. I'm not taking any meds, not even the anti-depressant my doc prescribed, as I wanted to see how my body does on its own.

 

However, I struggle to fall asleep or even get sleepy before 3 am. I tend to drift off towards 4-5 AM and then I will rest until 10-11, sometimes 1 PM. It's interrupted sleep but I'm grateful for anything at this point! These hours are fine for now as I'm off work, but I'm dreading January when I need to get back into a rhythm of getting up at 8 AM for work. Should I try and push my body towards bed sooner? Is it worth trying sleep hygiene and other techniques to induce sleep earlier, given that I'm experiencing this post benzo + Z drugs?

[[Th...]]

Sleep hygiene will not touch Benzo-induced insomnia...it can't because Benzos temporarily damage GABA receptors and down regulated GABA is what is causing your lack of sleep.  If keeping the room dark, or getting out of bed if you're not sleepy (as examples) could repair GABA, then sleep hygiene might work, but only TIME can repair GABA receptors.

 

You could try some short-term melatonin use (7 days or less) in an attempt to reset your circadian rhythm.  In order for sleep to come, even after GABA is healed, your circadian rhythm and sleep drive need to be in sync. 

 

You might want to check out a book from Dr. Michael Breus, the sleep doctor, that was just released called "Energize."

 

It's great that you are getting more sleep...time will even your sleep out.

 

Good luck

[[He...]]

Hi guys,

 

It is so helpful to read that other people have suffered from the same amount of insomnia that I have. It was interesting reading the RedOne's sleep pattern. That is much worse than my sleep was at it's worst. I had a lot of 0 to 2 hour nights (for months) but only occasional zero nights. My insomnia still rules my thoughts. I try very hard for that not to be the case but it's hard. After 4 nights of decent sleep (6 to 8 hours), last night I went to bed at 11 and was awake until 3am and eventually got maybe 4 hours of broken sleep before I got out of bed at 10am. I agree that just lying in bed resting, even if you don't sleep, is best for your healing. When I first started tapering, I couldn't lie still due to restless leg syndrome but, after that resolved, I was able to lie still and at least relax, if not sleep. I am actually going back to work after the New Year too and will have to get used to regular bed hours whether I sleep or not.

 

There is still a ways to go for me, but I am grateful for other's that can empathize. It is slowly getting better, thank God.

Thank you for being there!

 

HM

[[Th...]]

HM,

 

I remember sending PMs to RedOne when his sleep was terrible.  He couldn't believe that Z-drugs (Benzos in disguise) could mess up his sleep that much.  I am pretty sure that's what most believe on this forum?  If doctors only knew the amount of pain and suffering they cause by prescribing Benzos and Z-drugs, they might stop prescribing Benzos and/or Z-drugs?  At a minimum they should limit the length of time to 2-4 weeks Maximum!

 

Sleep returning is very UP and down.  You'll do well for several nights or even weeks, but the poor nights always find their way back to you, until sleep evens out for good.  That is a completely "normal" pattern.

 

Good luck going back to work...Siggy gave good advice by saying do as much as you can the night before (in case you have a poor night of sleep); that way, in the morning, it will be easier to get out of the house.

 

 

 

[[He...]]

Hi, theway2,

 

Happy New Year! Last night was my second 4 hour night after several 6 to 8 hour nights. I never know what I am going to get. I really appreciate your words of encouragement that it will eventually "even out". It's been 8 months since I started my taper and 2 months since I finished it so it would make sense that I am not healed yet. It has gotten better though. Even 4 hours is better than it was, let alone 6 or 8.

 

HM

[[Th...]]

HM,

 

Great news..glad to learn that your sleep is slowly improving (as it should)! 

[[He...]]

Hi Theway2,

 

After a few weeks of good sleep, I went back to a stretch of 2- and 3-hour nights. The last 3 nights have been better. 6 to 7 hours. Hopefully, tonight will be good. You are right that it isn't linear healing. It's up and down and back and forth.

 

Off to bed again! Wish me luck.

 

HM