Quebec City mosque shooter was taking Paroxetine at the time of the murders

[[Fl...]]

Can I also point out that the shooter in this case, i.e. the original topic, comes from a two-parent family?

 

But again, that doesn't prove that there is not a link between fatherless homes and mass shootings. We don't know for sure but I think there is enough evidence to warrant further study and it's hard to believe that anyone would have an issue with looking into a possible link.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/fl-op-mass-shootings-fatherless-homes-20180227-story.html

 

"Some people are just BAD" doesn't explain this. There is something else going on and it is concerning to me that there is so much pushback to the idea that drugs or social issues might play a role.

[[La...]]

I'm not well enough versed in the issue of mass shootings. We have few here in Canada, and this one was quite shocking because of the circumstances. I can't speak at all to the issue in the US. I'm not saying there's no connection, but I'm saying that a generalization doesn't seem to help understand this particular situation, which is what my original post was about.

 

Perhaps it warrants a new thread.

[[or...]]

Perhaps it warrants a new thread.

 

I agree.

[[be...]]

Perhaps it warrants a new thread.

 

I agree.

 

[[La...]]

Here's the update from CBC on the shooter and his motives. Clearly, there were numerous factors involved, as per the report from the psychologist:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/alexandre-bissonnette-sentencing-defence-1.4631294

[[or...]]

Lapis, do we know if the shooter obtained his guns legally?

 

Katz

[[La...]]

Yes, I believe he did. I know little about gun ownership here in Canada, but I understand that he was a legal gun owner and member of a gun club. 

 

I found this article, which sheds a bit of light:

 

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/ae4xja/does-the-quebec-mosque-shooting-reveal-flaws-in-canadas-gun-laws 

[[gl...]]

Forgive me for getting into this conversation but reading these posts I remember watching a Dateline on Tv a few months back and they were in jail interviewing this guy that killed his twin daughter's when he asked his Dr to switch him from Paxil to Zoloft b/c he was gaining weight on the Paxil. Seems like he was never told  about switching from one med to the other. Within the 2 weeks of going from Paxil to Zoloft, he was babysitting for the kids (3 years old) and decided he needed to killed them, and in his mind it felt alrigth to commit this crime :'(. Now he is in jail for the rest of his life thinking about what he did.

    In jail they are giving him Lithium and he feels ok......go figure.

 

        G.

[[or...]]

Thanks, Lapis.

 

Alas, hindsight is 20/20, isn't it? If only the members of his gun club had spoken out (to someone?) about the behavior they found "bizarre". To whom would they have reported that bizarre behavior? And what exactly was it, I wonder?

 

Very troubling.

 

Katz

[[be...]]

Forgive me for getting into this conversation but reading these posts I remember watching a Dateline on Tv a few months back and they were in jail interviewing this guy that killed his twin daughter's when he asked his Dr to switch him from Paxil to Zoloft b/c he was gaining weight on the Paxil. Seems like he was never told  about switching from one med to the other. Within the 2 weeks of going from Paxil to Zoloft, he was babysitting for the kids (3 years old) and decided he needed to killed them, and in his mind it felt alrigth to commit this crime :'(. Now he is in jail for the rest of his life thinking about what he did.

    In jail they are giving him Lithium and he feels ok......go figure.

 

        G.

 

Ah, I know the stroy you're talking about.  David Carmichael (mentioned earlier in this thread and on another thread) is lobbying for this US man's freedom.  David Carmichael is the Canadian man who was on Paxil when he killed his son and subsequently found to be "Not Criminally Responsible".  His actions were blamed on mental illness, though he believes it was the drug that caused the "mental illness."  Here's an article about both men:

 

http://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-man-who-killed-son-while-taking-anti-depressants-lobbies-for-freedom-of-u-s-dad-who-killed-twins

[[La...]]

Thanks, Lapis.

 

Alas, hindsight is 20/20, isn't it? If only the members of his gun club had spoken out (to someone?) about the behavior they found "bizarre". To whom would they have reported that bizarre behavior? And what exactly was it, I wonder?

 

Very troubling.

 

Katz

 

Yes, Katz, that "if only" phrase rings very true. Perhaps people didn't know how to proceed, or didn't want to get involved. Lives could have been saved, though, and you'd hope that someone would have said, "Hmmm, something's not right here. Maybe I should do something about it."

 

I wonder, too, about the man's parents and whether they thought about it too. Apparently, this young man was staying with his parents at the time, because he was "unstable" and "anxious", and he was, at the time, on a medical leave from work due to those reasons. Why, then, would he still be allowed to possess the guns and/or to go to shooting practice at his gun club?

 

So many questions remain.

[[La...]]

Forgive me for getting into this conversation but reading these posts I remember watching a Dateline on Tv a few months back and they were in jail interviewing this guy that killed his twin daughter's when he asked his Dr to switch him from Paxil to Zoloft b/c he was gaining weight on the Paxil. Seems like he was never told  about switching from one med to the other. Within the 2 weeks of going from Paxil to Zoloft, he was babysitting for the kids (3 years old) and decided he needed to killed them, and in his mind it felt alrigth to commit this crime :'(. Now he is in jail for the rest of his life thinking about what he did.

    In jail they are giving him Lithium and he feels ok......go figure.

 

        G.

 

Ah, I know the stroy you're talking about.  David Carmichael (mentioned earlier in this thread and on another thread) is lobbying for this US man's freedom.  David Carmichael is the Canadian man who was on Paxil when he killed his son and subsequently found to be "Not Criminally Responsible".  His actions were blamed on mental illness, though he believes it was the drug that caused the "mental illness."  Here's an article about both men:

 

http://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-man-who-killed-son-while-taking-anti-depressants-lobbies-for-freedom-of-u-s-dad-who-killed-twins

 

It seems like this situation had multiple factors, including this young man's long history of issues with anxiety and depression. The role of the medication is still a question in my mind, but I see that there were so many other issues that, unfortunately, were not being addressed before the terrible act occurred.

[[be...]]

I agree. I think he fell through the loophole. But given Canada’s gun laws and the US’s, ours is sorely lacking. Pathetic really.

[[La...]]

And as of yesterday, we're dealing with a case where a young man used a van as a weapon to mow people down on a busy main street, and the results were nothing less than devastating. We don't have any clue why it happened. What the ?

[[Fl...]]

I agree. I think he fell through the loophole. But given Canada’s gun laws and the US’s, ours is sorely lacking. Pathetic really.

 

And as of yesterday, we're dealing with a case where a young man used a van as a weapon to mow people down on a busy main street, and the results were nothing less than devastating. We don't have any clue why it happened. What the ?

 

It is very clear that stricter gun laws aren't going to prevent these mass killings. All that time and energy that is spent putting a band aid on the problem could go a long way toward figuring out and addressing the root cause of the problem.

 

 

 

[[La...]]

Yes, FloridaGuy, I agree. We don't know anything about yesterday's perpetrator right now, but with the Quebec shooter, it seems that much was known. There were signs that he was troubled. What kind of help and support was he getting?

[[Gr...]]

And as of yesterday, we're dealing with a case where a young man used a van as a weapon to mow people down on a busy main street, and the results were nothing less than devastating. We don't have any clue why it happened. What the ?

 

I was just thinking when are they going to publish what drugs the van driver in Toronto was on?  A very similar thing happened in Times Square this summer.  I don't remember if he was on any drugs either. 

[[La...]]

I think it's going to take awhile before we get all the details. They need time to identify the victims and piece together everything that happened. But there are little bits of info coming out about this man, including a reference to an angry Facebook post and a very short stint in the Canadian Armed Forces training (16 days), which he left. Apparently, he had trouble following the rules and dealing with other aspects of military life. The Facebook post referenced a mass murderer in the U.S., I believe.

 

Here's a BBC article on the term "incel" or "involuntarily celebate", a term that was used in the Facebook post:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-43881931

[[La...]]

I thought I'd post a link to a book called "Why Young Men: Rage, Race and the Crisis of Identity", written by Jamil Jivani, a lawyer who has looked at the issue of why young men might get caught up in violence, especially in the face of the terror attacks that we've seen around the world. Today, he was a guest on CBC Radio's local Toronto morning show, called "Metro Morning", and I will post the five-minute audio for anyone who might be interested.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1217848900001 

 

I think it speaks to FloridaGuy's questions about the roots of unsettling behaviour, such as mass killings, that we've witnessed around the world. Without having more information about yesterday's van rampage in Toronto, it's too early to say whether these ideas apply to this particular perpetrator. As we learn more about him, perhaps we'll get a better sense of what the hell was going on in his mind. At this point, we're all reeling from what took place yesterday. It's devastating.

 

 

[Guest [Le...]]

I think it's going to take awhile before we get all the details. They need time to identify the victims and piece together everything that happened. But there are little bits of info coming out about this man, including a reference to an angry Facebook post and a very short stint in the Canadian Armed Forces training (16 days), which he left. Apparently, he had trouble following the rules and dealing with other aspects of military life. The Facebook post referenced a mass murderer in the U.S., I believe.

 

Here's a BBC article on the term "incel" or "involuntarily celebate", a term that was used in the Facebook post:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-43881931

 

There are interesting details from former classmates about Minassian’s peculiar behavior around women. Apparently his behavior was severely bizarre, even in response to women who attempted to befriend him.

 

  Suspect Expressed Anger at Women

 

”Josh Kirstein, who took a photography class with Mr. Minassian in high school and works in the mental health field, said Mr. Minassian had difficulty communicating and expressed fear that women could hurt him. Other classmates said he literally ran away when women approached, even female students determined to befriend him.”

[[Fl...]]

Yes, FloridaGuy, I agree. We don't know anything about yesterday's perpetrator right now, but with the Quebec shooter, it seems that much was known. There were signs that he was troubled. What kind of help and support was he getting?

 

I wish I had full use of my brain. I would love to write a book about this. We may never know the real reasons why these mass killers do what they do but it would be interesting to throw out some theories and use the data we have on them to try to get a better idea of what is going on.

[[Fl...]]

There are interesting details from former classmates about Minassian’s peculiar behavior around women. Apparently his behavior was severely bizarre, even in response to women who attempted to befriend him.

 

  Suspect Expressed Anger at Women

 

”Josh Kirstein, who took a photography class with Mr. Minassian in high school and works in the mental health field, said Mr. Minassian had difficulty communicating and expressed fear that women could hurt him. Other classmates said he literally ran away when women approached, even female students determined to befriend him.”

 

This is beyond the scope of this thread so I won't go into details but when you realize that the current social climate is hostile to boys and men this doesn't come as much of a surprise.

 

http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/19/school-has-become-too-hostile-to-boys/

 

[[La...]]

Here's the info I meant to post above about the book "Why Young Men" by Jamil Jivani:

 

http://www.harpercollins.ca/9781443453196/why-young-men 

 

It speaks to some of the issues, FloridaGuy.

[[Gr...]]

There are interesting details from former classmates about Minassian’s peculiar behavior around women. Apparently his behavior was severely bizarre, even in response to women who attempted to befriend him.

 

  Suspect Expressed Anger at Women

 

”Josh Kirstein, who took a photography class with Mr. Minassian in high school and works in the mental health field, said Mr. Minassian had difficulty communicating and expressed fear that women could hurt him. Other classmates said he literally ran away when women approached, even female students determined to befriend him.”

 

This is beyond the scope of this thread so I won't go into details but when you realize that the current social climate is hostile to boys and men this doesn't come as much of a surprise.

 

http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/19/school-has-become-too-hostile-to-boys/

 

I would go a step further and say school is hostile to all kids.  I'm so pessimistic about school these days.  They get rid of play time, make kids sit in seats all day and drug them when they can't or punish them or both.  Try to make them read at age 5, in kindergarten, and punish the teachers when they can't.  They've even made the school days longer. And they give evaluations on every tiny little thing you do.  You can just drop your pencil, and you'll end up with "poor motor skills" in your progress report.  This idea of evaluating every little thing and making a giant deal about it, to the point of drugging children to compliance, is ruining schools.  That, and ridiculous standards that make everyone unhappy. 

[[Rx...]]

I would go a step further and say school is hostile to all kids.  I'm so pessimistic about school these days.  They get rid of play time, make kids sit in seats all day and drug them when they can't or punish them or both.  Try to make them read at age 5, in kindergarten, and punish the teachers when they can't.  They've even made the school days longer. And they give evaluations on every tiny little thing you do.  You can just drop your pencil, and you'll end up with "poor motor skills" in your progress report.  This idea of evaluating every little thing and making a giant deal about it, to the point of drugging children to compliance, is ruining schools.  That, and ridiculous standards that make everyone unhappy.

 

I think it is so sad that too many children are no longer allowed to be children.  I've witnessed it.  A 5-year-old runs around a room because he gets no real exercise, but is expected to sit still all day like he's 50-years-old, then he's automatically dubbed hyperactive and heavily drugged asap.  Yes, every little thing is evaluated and judged these days, not only for children, but for adults as well, in my opinion.  Making mountains out of every molehill.