Addiction/Dependence Discussion

[[pr...]]

"Dependence" is when your body chemistry is altered by a drug and your body is dependent on the drug to function properly.

 

"Addiction" is inability to discontinued use of a drug despite serious negative consequences.

 

this just 'bout ties the package up in bow now. FG to the rescue.

 

no, it's a good thing. it's very understandable.

 

[[wa...]]

Well, I hate to jump in the splitting hairs society but maybe it helps to keep it simple and refer to a dictionary's definition of addiction, which is interesting since dependency defines addiction in everything I read and vice versa. Except for the cultural stigma attached to "addiction" - really what's the difference between that and dependent.

 

For example "addict": "to give over or award (oneself) to someone or some practice" (1560s; exact phrase from c.1600); specialization to narcotics dependency is from c.1910". dictionary.com 

 

And "dependence": "A compulsive or chronic need; an addiction".

 

Having worked with folks in rehabs we of course could not escape the pejorative "addict" in the recovery world or the label-obsessed broader culture.  You just can't.  I hear "dependent" as less stigmatizing - so why not use it?  And so I did in most of my documentation.

 

Prescribing doctors fostered my dependency on these drugs and both of us relied on the cultural paternalism that they need to practice medicine.  This dynamic ultimately created my dependence and subsequent exploitation by docs (and, by proxy, pharma). 

 

Well, f**k em -- I got out.  Buyer (patient) beware I say and don't get dependent or addicted.  If you can - get unaddicted (new word) and independent.  Hah  WBB

[Guest [ba...]]

"Dependence" is when your body chemistry is altered by a drug and your body is dependent on the drug to function properly.

 

"Addiction" is inability to discontinued use of a drug despite serious negative consequences.

 

I think that I'm mostly comfortable with these definitions although I think that the word 'addicted' gets thrown around more loosely than this.

 

I use the words tolerant and dependent to tell people the situation that I was in since both terms seem to fit accepted terminology (IMO). 

[[be...]]

We are dependent on a drug when we rely on it to treat a diagnosed condition or illness. 

 

We are addicted to a drug when we take it simply because we are taking it. 

 

This stuff is simple.

 

If it were simple you would be able to answer my questions and provide rebuttals, but I have yet to see any of that. Why do you refuse to address my questions and points directly?

 

Not only do you want to add confusion to medical terminology, but now you are making up your own definitions to make everything. Ask any addiction expert and they will tell you that:

 

"Dependence" is when your body chemistry is altered by a drug and your body is dependent on the drug to function properly.

 

"Addiction" is inability to discontinued use of a drug despite serious negative consequences.

 

Right on. :thumbsup:

[[co...]]

I felt neither dependent nor addicted. I only used Xanax for a short period. I wasn't dependent on it, wanted off due to side effects, and definitely was not addicted. All of our problems come from benzo use/cessation. How to wrap this up in a clever acronym I don't know. The best I have is BUCS, Benzodiazepene Use/Cessation Syndrome.

[[be...]]

I agree with Parker. She said instead of saying withdrawal, you should say Recovery.

[[li...]]

'Is it possible for us to ask our handlers to leave our brains for a moment and allow us to apply some common sense to this? '

 

Handlers ? I don't get what you mean.

Just listen to the podcast, which explains what I mean.  In short, we're not making independent judgements about this topic or for that matter, any other topic.  Please listen to the whole podcast.

 

I'm not sure what you mean, the one in that post doesn't appear to be about benzodiazepines. I'm not going to listen to something that lasts 50 minutes or download something !

[[be...]]

'Is it possible for us to ask our handlers to leave our brains for a moment and allow us to apply some common sense to this? '

 

Handlers ? I don't get what you mean.

Just listen to the podcast, which explains what I mean.  In short, we're not making independent judgements about this topic or for that matter, any other topic.  Please listen to the whole podcast.

 

I'm not sure what you mean, the one in that post doesn't appear to be about benzodiazepines. I'm not going to listen to something that lasts 50 minutes or download something !

 

I bet that is true for sure!

[[Fl...]]

I agree with Parker. She said instead of saying withdrawal, you should say Recovery.

 

Recovery is something you do, not something you have. You can say "I am in recovery" but you have to have something that you are recovering from.

 

[Guest [ba...]]

I used both terms - withdrawal and recovery.  To me, withdrawal was a phase where my body/mind responded to diminishing levels of benzo in my body.  Symptoms began and intensified.  I c/t'd, so this occurred rapidly.  Recovery was the phase of 'how am I going to make this work for me?'  It was more active; I was doing something.  During withdrawal I experienced the onset of insomnia; during recovery, I experimented with approaches to reduce my insomnia.  During withdrawal I began experiencing a lot of anxiety; during recovery, I was seeking methods to deal with the anxiety. 

 

To me being in withdrawal is to be 'at effect' (being a victim), while being in recovery means that you have some power over that effect.  I think that some people get so scared during the withdrawal phase that it delays their ability to take control and move forward.

[[Fl...]]

I don't like the idea of throwing out more terminology. If we want to fix this everyone has to be on the same page with terminology that is accurate and easy to understand.

 

I don't agree with the idea that we need to use "harsh" words to describe this (if they are inaccurate anyway) to get people to pay attention, but words do convey meaning so I don't think it is productive to play word games with ourselves because this only serves to create more confusion all around.

[[li...]]

'I've been poisoned by a doctor' is something that is accurate, but it will invite questions and people will wonder why you can't just stop taking the drug. Then there is the credibility issue.

[[pr...]]

where do we stand on the difference between someone who is an "opiate addict" and someone who has a dependency to benzodiazepines/iatrogenic illness"?

 

because, i've been on both, had had trouble with both and to me these are two completely different withdrawals.

 

with the opiates i felt more of a craving and with the benzo's i felt more like i just couldn't taper and couldn't get off them easily at all, obviously. never really had any kind of craving for benzo's... they're obviously two different beasts.

[[li...]]

I wonder if there is a similarity between an 'opiate craving' and a 'lorazepam craving'.

[[pr...]]

I wonder if there is a similarity between an 'opiate craving' and a 'lorazepam craving'.

 

 

very different for me and like i said i never really had any kind of "craving" for a benzo but i actually still get cravings for opiates.

[Guest [ba...]]

I never had any kind of craving for a benzo.  I never really had any kind of craving for an opiate (except to stop the pain it was supposed to stop).  But I never took opiates for very long (couple of weeks once for a ruptured disc, but usually just for a day or three for dental work).

 

It doesn't matter to me personally if you took benzos recreationally or as prescribed.  If you're committed to getting off of those drugs, I'll do what I can to help and not pass judgement.  I think most people here share that philosophy.

[[pr...]]

i still want to "feel" normal from the benzo withdrawal so i still having "cravings" for something to make me feel normal so i would be apt to want to take a benzo or something to make me feel normal. it's still a craving though.

[[Fl...]]

It's funny how other psych drugs such as antidepressant and antipsychotics can cause nearly identical health issues, but there is no push to label that as "addiction". Why is that? Is it because they don't have much potential for abuse?

 

I think most of us would agree that all of these classes of drugs must cause similar changes in the body that cause these issues, so wouldn't it make sense that we label the "syndromes" in the same way?

[[Be...]]

It's funny how other psych drugs such as antidepressant and antipsychotics can cause nearly identical health issues, but there is no push to label that as "addiction". Why is that? Is it because they don't have much potential for abuse?

 

 

With the advent of the SSRI's big pharma chose to relabel the issue of addiction to these classes of drugs as "Discontinuation Syndrome".  There was a lot of money to be made and they didn't want the term addiction associated. 

 

 

[[wa...]]

It's funny how other psych drugs such as antidepressant and antipsychotics can cause nearly identical health issues, but there is no push to label that as "addiction". Why is that? Is it because they don't have much potential for abuse?

 

 

With the advent of the SSRI's big pharma chose to relabel the issue of addiction to these classes of drugs as "Discontinuation Syndrome".  There was a lot of money to be made and they didn't want the term addiction associated.

I laughed aloud at this.  Then we can discuss what "syndrome" really is.  It reminds me of my Dad saying he was "financially embarrassed" when he was broke.  WBB

[[Be...]]

It's funny how other psych drugs such as antidepressant and antipsychotics can cause nearly identical health issues, but there is no push to label that as "addiction". Why is that? Is it because they don't have much potential for abuse?

 

 

With the advent of the SSRI's big pharma chose to relabel the issue of addiction to these classes of drugs as "Discontinuation Syndrome".  There was a lot of money to be made and they didn't want the term addiction associated.

I laughed aloud at this.  Then we can discuss what "syndrome" really is.  It reminds me of my Dad saying he was "financially embarrassed" when he was broke.  WBB

 

Right. It's the exact same irony and skeptism I'm met with in real life everywhere I go when I try to explain the difference between dependence and addiction.  It goes nowhere with most other than close friends and family and even there they see the irony of what I'm saying. 

 

To build upon and develop the conversation about what is dependence and what is addiction outside recovery groups such as benzobuddies is difficult because common folks are a tough audience, for many reasons.  They may listen to me for a while but it's very difficult to change a lifetime of belief and understanding.  The difference between addiction and dependence is not a simple concept.  For people to make changes in their belief systems they need a reason.  We are the ones with a vested interest.  Most outside recovery programs don't have that interest.  This is the reality I'm running into. 

 

I'm seen as someone who had addiction issues in my life.  When I suggest it might have been something else that furthers their perception of addiction.  Denial.  The addiction paradigm runs deep within our society. 

 

I usually try to change my message now.  It's not about what it was, addiction or otherwise, my message becomes making people aware that there are serious problems associated with benzodiazepines for some, maybe many.  I then focus on the side effect profile.  My message is that there are potential serious consequences.  Most often at this point others bring up addiction as one of those serious consequences and we are right back at the beginning.  They lose interest in the conversation when I try to educate them on the terminology of addiction or debates about addiction begin.  That takes the focus off my message of the consequences of benzodiazepine use.  I lose my audience. 

 

[[li...]]

There are people who escalate their dose of antidepressants ...

[[Fl...]]

With the advent of the SSRI's big pharma chose to relabel the issue of addiction to these classes of drugs as "Discontinuation Syndrome".  There was a lot of money to be made and they didn't want the term addiction associated.

 

I should have been more clear. What I meant to ask was "Why is there no push to label the problems associated with other psych drugs as addiction outside of the medical community?"

 

The people in the addiction community and the benzo community who promote the addiction label aren't pushing for that label when it comes to other drugs that cause similar issues. Why not?

 

Right. It's the exact same irony and skeptism I'm met with in real life everywhere I go when I try to explain the difference between dependence and addiction.  It goes nowhere with most other than close friends and family and even there they see the irony of what I'm saying........

 

I usually try to change my message now.  It's not about what it was, addiction or otherwise, my message becomes making people aware that there are serious problems associated with benzodiazepines for some, maybe many.  I then focus on the side effect profile.  My message is that there are potential serious consequences.  Most often at this point others bring up addiction as one of those serious consequences and we are right back at the beginning.  They lose interest in the conversation when I try to educate them on the terminology of addiction or debates about addiction begin.  That takes the focus off my message of the consequences of benzodiazepine use.  I lose my audience. 

 

I don't really get into the conversation with many people but when I do I tell them that this is brain/cns damage, I don't get into the addiction or dependence discussion. If someone else were to bring it up I would certainly outline the difference, but considering the fact that these conversations are usually a one-way deal anyway I don't expect to have to educate too many people on that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

I recently listened to an interview with a former pediatric emergency medicine doctor, now specializing in medical cannabis.  What I found interesting was her speaking to whether there was any "withdrawal syndrome".  I think that's the perfect terminology if/when attempting to warn family/friends. 

[[Ph...]]

I recently listened to an interview with a former pediatric emergency medicine doctor, now specializing in medical cannabis.  What I found interesting was her speaking to whether there was any "withdrawal syndrome".  I think that's the perfect terminology if/when attempting to warn family/friends.

When warning family and friends, I prefer to be unambiguous.

 

Bottom line here folks is that the term you use depends on your priorities.  If your priority is to bring attention to the seriousness of this doctor-caused epidemic, the word to use is addiction.  If your priority is to shield yourself from recrimination, if you want to avoid that feeling of shame, the word to use is dependence.  Can't say that I blame you.  How the Group views us is hugely important...wired into our genome, actually.

 

We might say that we depend on that cup of coffee in the morning.  I know I do!  But we can't minimize our plight with benzos by also saying that we simply depend on our benzo.  We are in fact physically addicted to it.  Coffee is benign, benzos are not.  I can give you dozens of other language-related examples where we undermine our own cause by using that word.

 

All of the studious, technical jargon-laced reports issued by academics are meaningless in the face of common sense.  I was physically addicted to Lorazepam for twenty years.  That is a simple fact, and I tell people so, and I tell them to protect themselves and their families from incompetent doctors who prescribe these poisons, lest they too become addicted to them.

 

And with that I will wrap up my comments on this particular thread, which I've really enjoyed.  Call me a "Benzo Dependence Denier."  Hmmm, I like the ring of that !!