Addiction/Dependence Discussion

[[Te...]]

The problem with the word addiction is that doctors easily throw the ball back in our court by saying that. They then wipe their hands of the situation. To them, it's clear cut. People who are addicted are put in boxes, labeled, and the physicians have nothing to do with it. Being dependent has culpability attached. I'm dependent on my bp pills. Doctors prescribed them. I don't crave them, but my body certainly needs them because serious damage could result without them (even though I tapered for many months, I had tremendous adrenaline rushes from the benzo and got a TIA, landed in the hospital. The nurses there wanted to know if I was suicidal). I don't crave a benzo, but serious damage could result from going c/t (already went that route).

 

I think doctors know, inside, what the difference is. But they don't want to own up to it. So they'll use the word addiction as long as they can and continue to skate past this issue.

[[Bl...]]

The problem with the word addiction is that doctors easily throw the ball back in our court by saying that. They then wipe their hands of the situation. To them, it's clear cut. People who are addicted are put in boxes, labeled, and the physicians have nothing to do with it. Being dependent has culpability attached. I'm dependent on my bp pills. Doctors prescribed them. I don't crave them, but my body certainly needs them because serious damage could result without them (even though I tapered for many months, I had tremendous adrenaline rushes from the benzo and got a TIA, landed in the hospital. The nurses there wanted to know if I was suicidal). I don't crave a benzo, but serious damage could result from going c/t (already went that route).

 

I think doctors know, inside, what the difference is. But they don't want to own up to it. So they'll use the word addiction as long as they can and continue to skate past this issue.

 

Well said Terry!

 

This is what I feel happened to me. If I ever get my psychiatric records, I'll be able to walk myself through what  exactly transpired during this entire benzo/z-drug ordeal. Right now, I have memories of this nightmare only. I'm very hesitant to read what's written in my records....too painful.

 

During one of my last psychiatric sessions with a doctor whom I knew quite well, they simply chalked-up my problem in one word that of "ADDICTION". I couldn't help but feel like there was a total disconnect between me, the patient, and them, the psychiatrist as we stared at each other, after they said that one word.....not even a complete sentence.....just "ADDICTION". Their face was so SERIOUS....I was so dumbfounded by their "enlightening" information as regards my case.

 

At the time of that session, I still was not clear on how damaging benzos/z-drugs were/are. Months(possibly 8 months?) of SUFFERING had taken place, and I was now being conveniently told that I had an "addiction" problem. I was definitely at a loss for words and remained silent when they threw that word out at me. Seriously....I didn't know how to react. I did know though, by the look on their face, that their intent was to bring me to my senses so that I would see that I had a serious problem with both benzos and z-drugs....I know this for a fact, because this psychiatrist was responsible for following through with the cold turkey that I had just been subjected to from a VA Inpatient setting.

 

Also, later or possibly at that same time, this same psychiatrist would not prescribe Gabapentin, although another doctor had recently prescribed it to me outside this psychiatrist's jurisdiction. Fortunately, another doctor agreed to refill the Gabapentin prescription.

 

Interestingly, Gabapentin turned out to be no different than Ativan. It quickly became evident that I would have to up the dose to get the initial relief I had experienced. The relief I so desperately needed from the horrific symptoms I was unknowingly having from Ambien...a z-drug and Ativan...a benzo. I really had no desire to add another drug to this evolving NIGHTMARE....I thought I was dying....it certainly felt like it.

 

What a mess...one that I really resent and feel like somewhere someone really should have told me the mechanism behind these drugs, and then allowed me to proceed with a humane taper off of them. Instead, I ended up feeling like I had an "addiction" problem....please doctors if you're reading this do us, the patients, a favor....explain what you mean if you call your patient an "addict" as they sit there feeling like they've lost their minds from these drugs that should only be prescribed VERY briefly!!

 

Edit: My cold turkey lasted about a good 6 weeks from Ativan and about 2 weeks from Ambien.

 

[[Te...]]

BlueRose, I honestly think that psychiatrists and doctors in general don't want to research what effect these drugs have on our systems. That would mean the bottom would drop out from their prescribing practices. So they conveniently blame any dependence on the patient. Unfortunately, what they say really makes a strong difference in our lives.

 

I'm so sorry that you went through all that! Is it no wonder that we don't want to see these people again? We feel we've been burned, and our lives will never be the same. We're left to pick up the pieces. Being labeled as addicted (which obviously you weren't) is very harmful.

 

That psychiatrist was using a mind-f*ck tactic to release himself of any wrongdoing and to put it all on your shoulders. Shame on him!!!

[[Te...]]

Another thing I want to say, BlueRose, is I am probably not the only person to have taken extra bp pills because the adrenaline issues are terrible, causing panic attacks and anxiety attacks. I have had to updose, and therefore doctors have had to give me a higher dosage of my prescriptions. But I don't crave these pills. I am simply seeking calm and comfort. Yet no doctor would say I'm addicted.

 

It's the type of pill that brings on the subject of addiction. Doctors say we "need" bp pills. I think they look at benzos, Z-drugs, and other pills as being not needed but "desired" on account of weakness. The word desired signifies a craving. It's all symantics, but it gets doctors off the hook really quickly. Doctors tend to be "suck-it-up" types who don't tolerate weakness in others (my opinion). They look at these drugs as "character flaws." It's easy for them to dismiss us as being addicted, and they lump us into a category with other hard-core abusers.

 

And because these drugs tend to produce more anxiety and depression than originally had before the benzo or other drug, doctors easily assume that the "original" anxiety or depression came back. They look at us as even weaker, and easily assume that as "weakened people" the addiction tendencies are stronger. This becomes a vicious cycle. They don't bother to understand the mechanisms of these drugs, and they stay off the hook that way.

 

 

[[Fl...]]

The problem with the word addiction is that doctors easily throw the ball back in our court by saying that. They then wipe their hands of the situation. To them, it's clear cut. People who are addicted are put in boxes, labeled, and the physicians have nothing to do with it. Being dependent has culpability attached.

 

Exactly. One more nail in the coffin of this debate.

 

I was peripherally aware that this class of drugs can cause problems when I was first prescribed them. After I had been on them for awhile I asked my doctor specifically about the potential for addiction, and she said "I'm not worried about that with you."

 

Why would she not be worried about that with me? Because like it or not, someone who is addicted to something ultimately has control over whether or not they take a pill or stick a needle in their arm or hand their life savings over to the casino. That isn't to say that there isn't a biological reason why they have a compulsion for self destructive behavior but when it comes down to it they do have a choice about whether or not to continue to engage in the behavior that is causing them problems.

 

Contrast that with the problems that most of us are facing. No amount of self control in the world is going to make us better. So regardless of the reason why a doctor uses the word addiction to describe our condition, the result is the same- it places the blame squarely on the patient and lets them off the hook.

 

 

[[...]]

Perfect timing.  Just stumbled upon this great thread by Dr. David Juurlink where he outlines his definition of the difference between addiction and dependence as it pertains to opioids.  Mainly.  See mention of benzos further down on second link.

 

"Dependent, not addicted. But otherwise, important point."

 

 

 

Well, it seems he got the memo.  Great stuff, I'm a big fan of his! 

 

(About Dr. David Juurlink:  Canadian pharmacologist and internal medicine doctor, head of the Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology division at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre in Toronto, Ontario, as well as a medical toxicologist at the Ontario Poison Centre and a scientist at the Institute for Clinical Evaluative Sciences. He is known for researching adverse effects caused by drug interactions).

[[Te...]]

The problem with the word addiction is that doctors easily throw the ball back in our court by saying that. They then wipe their hands of the situation. To them, it's clear cut. People who are addicted are put in boxes, labeled, and the physicians have nothing to do with it. Being dependent has culpability attached.

 

Exactly. One more nail in the coffin of this debate.

 

I was peripherally aware that this class of drugs can cause problems when I was first prescribed them. After I had been on them for awhile I asked my doctor specifically about the potential for addiction, and she said "I'm not worried about that with you."

 

Why would she not be worried about that with me? Because like it or not, someone who is addicted to something ultimately has control over whether or not they take a pill or stick a needle in their arm or hand their life savings over to the casino. That isn't to say that there isn't a biological reason why they have a compulsion for self destructive behavior but when it comes down to it they do have a choice about whether or not to continue to engage in the behavior that is causing them problems.

 

Contrast that with the problems that most of us are facing. No amount of self control in the world is going to make us better. So regardless of the reason why a doctor uses the word addiction to describe our condition, the result is the same- it places the blame squarely on the patient and lets them off the hook.

 

Thank you, FG. You have really changed my viewpoint about this. You have worked to bring this subject to the fore and for it to be understood. There is a real difference between addiction and dependence. Once the word addiction is present on medical charts, or a patient is told in a conversation that he or she is addicted (such as BlueRose), that is not ever forgotten. There is a clear distinction between the two words, and those need to be cleared up and understood once and for all. 

[[Fl...]]

Thank you, FG. You have really changed my viewpoint about this. 

 

Early in this process I didn't think much about the difference between the two but as time went on I started to realize that conflating the two terms was what got me me here in the first place and if we ever want this to change the first step is to get people to understand what this is and what this isn't.

[[Te...]]

Exactly. The only way we'll get support from the medical community, and from people in general, is to recognize this. Maybe at that point doctors will have no recourse but to finally dig into the literature and find out for themselves what the real issues concerning benzos actually are - CNS damage and anything surrounding it.

[[am...]]

Personally, I am a former opiate addict... In the past I didn't realized why people become addicted to certain meds like painkillers because I didn't feel high, just better. But I quickly got it that when you are depressed and suicidal, better is preferable to high. I personally was addicted to norco 10/325 for over 5 years .. I used to take around 8-9 pills a day. Now I know that the number one thing to do is to acknowledge you have a dependence ant this is a HUGE problem, then use professional medical help ( this info helped me alot https://addictionresource.com/drugs/fiorinal/ ), keep in touch with other opiod addicts and get to know what helps them (the members of this community will definitely help you https://talk.drugabuse.com/). Having beaten that damn dependence, I have my life back and now mentally I have back my focus. This is an amazing feeling of being free.