Questions about prescribed drugs mixed with benzo's

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Hello All

 

I hope i have the correct drug names for the USA and i will try for the UK.

I currently take

 

300mg Topomax

450mg Wellbutrin

100mg Seroquel

400mg Surmontil

 

I am currently freeze stop tapering off 30mg Valium for the moment, and was wondering if anyone could give me some feedback on this stuff.

Does anyone find that the other meds mess up the tapering? or do they help and then you go off them?

Anyone?

 

 

 

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Hi Dena

 

The Seroquel is nasty stuff.  It was definately messing with my benzos so I am off it now.  I was hoping someone would answer your thread and I was hoping you wouldn't mind if I added a med to it.  I am on Amitryptaline and I have heard that it intensifies the effect of the benzos which could be why I am having such a problem getting off.  Does anyone know anything about this?

 

Thanks

Lori

 

ps if I am hijacking Dena's thread, throw me into another please

[[mi...]]

I can tell you what I have read, but last time I did, I got shot down for a supposed "theory" when I believe it was scientifically researched by a doctor in the UK. Most definately these drugs affect the withdrawl of your benzo!! And I can't believe you're still walking on that much dope! Wow! Doctors have tried to put me on more and I've always fought them tooth and nail, knowing what I now know about the pharmacutical companies.

 

This is the link where I know it talks about some of these drugs. I'm not sure if it includes all the ones you have listed there but I know for myself, that it helped me understand why I was getting "Effexor" withdrawls when I wasn't even changing the dosage on that one med.

 

http://www.theroadback.org/science.htm

 

I realize everyone has their own ideas and opinions but I just thought, after reading your post here Dena and Maggie, that it would be rude to at least not let you know what I have read about these drugs. I don't at all say that this is the "only way to believe" ... cause I'm still learning so much myself. If it doesn't make sense to you ... the chart that is listed there ... I know I found it challenging myself to figure out, so maybe I can help you if you still are interested in what it has to say.

 

Wish you well, MG

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Hi Lori (you can stay just where you are!! 

 

I am trying to do some research on the A/D's affecting the benzo's, i havent been well for about a week but i will get ontop of it this weekend!

 

Cheers

Dena

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Heyja MG

 

why did you get "shot down"? with you theories, at this point i would believe anything that denounces the pharmaceutical companies. Let me know what you learned?

Sorry this is going ti be a bit short-been ill but will research this weekend.

 

Cheers

Dena

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dena

2 anti-depressants, i migraine med, i anti-psychotic AND 30mgs valium.  IS YOUR DOCTOR NUTS?? or he just might think you are.  unless you are so clinically depressed you cannot get out of bed, or want to kill yourself, you need to get off this stuff.  BUT, only 1 at a time.  i am not sure of the order but i'm sure someone will come along to help you.  i tapered off 30mgs of valium in 4 1/2 months as per Ashton and that was bad enough.  i'm sure the other meds will only hinder this.  good luck

 

joan

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Hi Joan

 

At the rate he charges i doubt if he is trying to get rid of me.If you can help out on the thread please do, the more knowledge we have about these A/D the more we can see how they interact with going of the benzo.

 

Thanks a million.

Dena

[[mi...]]

Hi Dena,

 

I just had a closer look at what you're taking and the link I gave you; so far I can only find Three of the 5 medications (poisons) you are on. And having gone over the science part of it for myself so many times, Seroquel is the one that you should drop first. But because I don't know the pathways of the other drugs and how they interact with the three that ARE listed .. I'm not sure. Oh how I wish I was a doctor, just for the sake of being able to help people like us get off these things. Dena how do you cope during the day? Do you have normal amounts of energy? I guess I should really read your whole blog, but what is it that you do right now?

 

I feel sick just looking at the list you have posted!

 

Another thing I found was the amount of Surmontil that you are on is 100mg over the suggested top dosage !! What in the world has this guy/gal DR. done to you??? !!! 

 

I'm by no means at all an expert at this. I've just had health issues most of my life and read about things for over a decade because of my own health. So, I've HAD to learn. You need to find a REAL doctor that can best advise you about all this and which drugs to tackle first if you are trying to get off of any of the other ones. I don't know this Dr. Ashton well, but she seems to be on the right track if she's helping people get off Benzos.

 

This is crazy.

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Hi MGirl

 

Thanks for taking the time to look up my meds. I know it's crazy but i do function and sometimes need more meds. I am a caregiver and an artist. My sleep pattern is a bit crappy at the moment but otherwise i do fine on the drugs. I have been on drugs for 18 years so i think i have a high tolerance.

 

I am terribly agoraphobic- i don't know if its the meds, i think its just psychological.

The only side effect i have had long term is i tend to drop things, my hands don't know how hard to hold something. Weird Huh.

 

You are off effexor? aren't you?

[[mi...]]

Actually no I'm still on Effexor XR right now because of the order of the drugs and how they "supposedly" matabolize through the system. So it was suggested that I come off the Klonopin (Clonazapam) first. In actual fact I'd much rather get off the Effexor because of the horrible side effects that I'm having to deal with.

 

I'd write more right now, but my daughter is here and needs my attention so I need to go but I will get back to this later. Dr. Donald E. McAlpine, Psychiatry and Psychology, Mayo Clinic were some other names of Doctors that may be of help. I'm going to look more into it and see if there isn't a way we can talk with doctors like them. They are at least on the right track about these drugs.

 

~MG

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dena

 

you only mention tapering off the valium.  you do seem to think you need all the other drugs.  maybe you do and that's fine.  i was wondering why you were prescribed seroquel?  you shoudld be careful of this one.  if you are taking it for sleep issues, forget about sleeping for a long time if you stop taking it.  if you are bi-polar or schizophrenic, then that's another story.  you don't give much history.

 

joan

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Hi there Joan

 

I am Bipolar (rapid cycling) if that clarifies anything. I do not want to be on ANY meds as soon as i can.

Whats up with Seroquel?

 

Any new thing on the drugs i take would be appreciated.

 

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I am on Amitryptaline and I have heard that it intensifies the effect of the benzos which could be why I am having such a problem getting off.  Does anyone know anything about this?

Hi Lori!

 

Not to my knowledge. Amitriptyline is one of the oldest tricyclics (1961) and generally well-tolerated with other medicines. It has typically been combined with BZDs for decades and I am unaware of any precedence for it affecting their potency. But hey, I don't know everything! (Show me a link and we'll learn together. lol)

 

Dena, the four meds you listed are certainly not "too many" if you have conditions which call for them. I understand all about the anti-psychiatry movement--just don't take action without your doctor's knowing, eh?

 

Ten

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  Jeez Lori, Ten has a bit of great info there. I am limited to my internet usage so i will keep trying to look up your med more thouroughly. 

 

Be safe

Dena

[[Th...]]

Dena and Lori,

 

I have found pharmacists to be a good source of information about drugs. In my experience, they are much more knowledgeable than the doctors. When I was going through really bad w/d's, I called three different pharmacists, and they were all very understanding of my situation. The doctors I met with, on the other hand, poo-pooed me about being on such a "baby dose" on Klonopin, etc.

 

If I were you, I would call some pharmacists and ask them about the drugs. Some might feel uncomfortable, thinking you want them to play doctor, which they don't want to do. But if that's the case, just tell them your situation and that you want information so you can take the info to your next doctor's appt. and be an informed patient.

 

Dena, I too wonder about the Seroquel. I do know that we do not recommend someone *start* on Seroquel to relieve the w/d symptoms. Seroquel affects a whole host of neurotransmitters in the body, including the GABA receptors, which is what benzos work on. I don't think we've ever had someone on Benzo Buddies before who has already been on Seroquel. Maybe you could call a pharmacist for more info. It doesn't even have to be your own pharmacist, Dena--I know that you are afraid of your pharmacist ratting on you.

 

Dena, I suspect that the reason you're on so many drugs is that one drug causes side effects, which the doctors then treat with another drug. Then that drug has side effects, which are treated with another drug--and so on. What's so distressing with the side effects is that they oftentimes mimic the original reason you went on the drug--so it's very difficult to tell that they're side effects and not the original illness. I know this from experience. I was put on Lexapro for anxiety, and the anxiety improved but never went away. I finally was able to wean off Lexapro, and when I did, the anxiety stopped. It was being caused by the drug itself! This is not uncommon with psychiatric drugs.

 

Have you ever considered going to another doctor for a second opinion?

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Therese

 

Hi there, I am going to call a pharmacist tomorrow, thats very handy and practical advice, i infact know just who to call.

if you read my blog you will find what a friend said to me about my P/Doc. Unfortunately i started the seroquel when i joined the site and my dose has increased.

thank you for your imput, it wont go to waste.

 

As usual thank you so much for your support.

 

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Hey Dena,

 

After touching base with you in Depression, I just had a second gander at your meds and must say, whew. I kinda concur with others now.

 

 

Wellbutrin 450 mg and Surmontil 400 mg, are full-on therapeutic doses. Wellbutrin = bupropion, a novel antidpressant (which means it isn't SSRI, TCA, nor MAOI); while Surmontil = trimipramine, a more classical tricyclic antidepressant.

 

Counting the Seroquel, and the Topomax.... Yer on just about the strongest psychiatry has to throw at ya. Now, as you can see, I am cautious of getting too caught up in the whole "anti-psychiatry" thing, but truth be known--hey, I'm on the fence myself. That's another story. lol

 

I don't envy your task of getting free from of all that junk, man... And Valium on top... Wooh.

 

I tried to stop Zoloft once last summer (I FAILED... and have since switched to Celexa... lol). Very rough, and that was just with one. The whole discontinuation syndrome from each drug respectively can sneak up on you babe, so just be careful.

 

Ten

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Ten..you again! 

 

Hi ya

 

what the hell is discontinuation syndrome?

I think i spoke briefly about you and meds in the depression department, Tell me the story about you being on the fence?

i was on Zoloft for a year and i had diarrhea for the whole time-doctor said i had a virus, talk about a crappy drug!

 

I am thinking of hopping back on the titration wagon on Friday (i get my prescription filled) it as good a day as any 

 

Just think of what all these drugs are doing to my mind...then think seriously about which side of the fence you want to be on.

 

I would love to be drug free, i know i can be benzo free because it serves a useless purpose in my body, we will have to see about the others.

 

Cheers

Dena

[[Th...]]

Hi, Dena,

 

"Discontinuation syndrome" refers to what symptoms a person gets when he/she decides to stop a drug. Some would call benzo w/d a "discontinuation syndrome." The medical community doesn't want to use the term "withdrawal," so they say "discontinuation syndrome."

 

I hope you had a good chat with your pharmacist.

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Why, Dena...

 

Not to be confused with protracted withdrawal syndrome (an occasional artifact of severe bzd dependence), or post-acute withdrawal syndrome (known as PAWS; the opiate-addict's longterm effects), discontinuation sydrome (DS for this post) is the medical community's moniker for the hell we endure when trying to break off antidepressant-use.

 

DS has only recently been recognized and can be traced in part to volumes of Usenet reports in the late 90s of the "brain shivers" or "brain zaps" people were experiencing en masse when discontinuing Effexor.

 

The medical community was famously (and typically) slow to acknowledge DS, whose symptoms *can* mimic a return of depression.

 

It's a goddamned differential diagnostican's nightmare, Dena: Is the depression iatrogenic, or is it endogenous?

 

... Got to run. I will have to address the subject in full (the "fence"; my story) when I have more time.

 

Ten

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Hi Ten

 

Define the two types of depression in simple terms, i tried to google it, but i am afraid my brain is on holiday.

And which one do you have?

 

Dena

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lol -- I'll rephrase the entire segment for us both.

 

The medical community was famously (and typically) slow to acknowledge DS, whose symptoms *can* mimic a return of depression.

 

It's a goddamned differential diagnostican's nightmare, Dena: Is the depression iatrogenic, or is it endogenous?

 

In other words:

 

In the 90s, doctors were slow to admit that people were having major problems stopping their ADs. Even worse, the symptoms people experience often include a return of depression. This creates a nightmare for patient and physican alike, as we must try and determine if our depression is a part of the "discontinuation syndrome" from the medication (iatrogenic), or if it is a genuine return of the depression we started out with (endogenous).

 

Iatrogenic means an illness has been caused by a physician or medication.

 

You asked which one do I have. At this point, I don't know. Everytime I try and stop an AD, I experience a distinct, dark depression unlike any I've ever had. So...

 

 

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Right, okay

 

I have endogenous depression.

But come on man- 2 antidepressants, I don't see the point, would it not be wise to see how bad/ or evaluate the situation really is after being drugged for 18 years?

They just dish them out. "Have you been on seroquel Dena?" "No Prof.Lasich""okay we are going to start you on that to see if it helps your bipolar."

He just tries one after the other. I am now (pharmacologically) spelling!!! saturated, so says he.

I would really like to see what would happen if i went off one.

How long have you been on a/d's Ten?

This all could be psychosomatic for the 2 of us you know! 

 

well.....?

 

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I would really like to see what would happen if i went off one.

 

Noooo, you wouldn't--not if you go off too fast, you wouldn't. You wouldn't want any of that.

 

I've been on SSRIs (Zoloft & now Celexa) for more than a decade.

 

I *know* it's not psychosomatic in the sense you mean it. Trust me dear, if you drop even one them too quickly, things can get bad for you.

 

So, I'm not telling you to stay on them but make damned sure you're read up on the procedure first. Here ya go, join www.paxilprogress.org and ASK QUESTIONS. Participate and let them get to know you inside and out. They can guide you through a taper a lot safer than you may know how to do so.

 

hth,

Ten

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  , i can never tell when you are being sarcastic  Ten  or condescending  'dear'?

 

hth?, means? i am not familiar with all the computer jargon.

 

I will see what the paxil site has. Thanks for the link.

 

Can someone tell me what a half life thingie is and how long valium stays in ones body at 10mg doses x 3 a day?