Any suggestions to use anything for tapering other than Librium or diazepam ?

[[li...]]

Currently on clonazepam. Aside from 'paradoxical' reactions, a harsh effect/side effect profile and my poor health, anything else to use to get off clonazepam?

 

Nobody seems to know. Aside from diazepam being so short acting and nasty in general, it is so depressing and different.

[[Va...]]

Currently on clonazepam. Aside from 'paradoxical' reactions, a harsh effect/side effect profile and my poor health, anything else to use to get off clonazepam?

 

Nobody seems to know. Aside from diazepam being so short acting and nasty in general, it is so depressing and different.

Librium may be a possibility but I think it's a lot like Valium.

[[be...]]

Currently on clonazepam. Aside from 'paradoxical' reactions, a harsh effect/side effect profile and my poor health, anything else to use to get off clonazepam?

 

Nobody seems to know. Aside from diazepam being so short acting and nasty in general, it is so depressing and different.

 

Diazapam is used because it is so long acting, not short acting. It has a much longer half life than Clonazapam. Maybe Librium?

[[Se...]]

Liberty,

 

Is there any chance you might be successful with a phenobarbitol taper if your health is poor and you really need to get off these drugs?  Just a thought.

 

Sorry you are struggling.

 

 

SS

[[be...]]

I would not suggest pheno. It is very addictive and it makes your mind a complete mess. That's one drug you can easily OD from. That's what they used to use for prisoners on death row, until other countries stopped selling it because they thought using pheno was inhumane. If you take pheno, then you'll have to taper that, which I hear is quite unpleasant. My Valium lasts a long time.

[[Se...]]

I would not suggest pheno. It is very addictive and it makes your mind a complete mess. That's one drug you can easily OD from. That's what they used to use for prisoners on death row, until other countries stopped selling it because they thought using pheno was inhumane.

 

I know Bets.  What do you do if you can't taper normally?  I never gave myself the option, I just drew a line in the sand and tapered and went through what I went through.  I was very ill but I promised myself I'd cut regardless of how I felt and I also promised myself that I'd never go back up in dose once I'd made a cut.  In a way I was glad that I was fairly uninformed back then, I had no appreciation that things could get worse after jumping.

 

I guess the other approach might be to try some supportive amino acids as per Dr. Brogan/Julia Ross.  I haven't read about anyone on these boards that has gone that route.  I scratch my head because it seems Liberty has really tried a lot of different approaches.

 

 

Ali

[[li...]]

Diazepam is medium acting ... same goes for Librium, I presume ... . They don't do pheno detoxes here. I'd have to buy some of that stuff on the net !

 

I don't know if it's truly that dangerous, but taking long term seems like a bad idea, except perhaps at low doses ...

 

SeekingSanity,

 

For me a pseudo-regular taper would make as much sense as the following schedule: day 1: 1,5 mg, day 2 1 mg, day 3 0.5 mg ... I'm hanging by a thread. For me it as as much a health issue as it is about chemical dependency.

 

 

[[be...]]

I would not suggest pheno. It is very addictive and it makes your mind a complete mess. That's one drug you can easily OD from. That's what they used to use for prisoners on death row, until other countries stopped selling it because they thought using pheno was inhumane.

 

I know Bets.  What do you do if you can't taper normally?  I never gave myself the option, I just drew a line in the sand and tapered and went through what I went through.  I was very ill but I promised myself I'd cut regardless of how I felt and I also promised myself that I'd never go back up in dose once I'd made a cut.  In a way I was glad that I was fairly uninformed back then, I had no appreciation that things could get worse after jumping.

 

I guess the other approach might be to try some supportive amino acids as per Dr. Brogan/Julia Ross.  I haven't read about anyone on these boards that has gone that route.  I scratch my head because it seems Liberty has really tried a lot of different approaches.

 

 

Ali

 

Since you are more than 30 days off benzos, you can try Valerian or Kava or Ginkgo...............I think Valerian might work best.

[Guest [...]]

Currently on clonazepam. Aside from 'paradoxical' reactions, a harsh effect/side effect profile and my poor health, anything else to use to get off clonazepam?

 

Nobody seems to know. Aside from diazepam being so short acting and nasty in general, it is so depressing and different.

 

Hi,  not sure your signature is correct but looks like 2mg of K single dosage a day.  Have you considering giving diazepam another try but break your dosage into 2 a day.  I got my K down to .5mg 2 times a day before I did the switch to diazepam and I a doing good now on diazepam.  I know everyone is different and this might not work for you.  Just an idea in case you have not tried this before.  Best to you.

[[be...]]

Currently on clonazepam. Aside from 'paradoxical' reactions, a harsh effect/side effect profile and my poor health, anything else to use to get off clonazepam?

 

Nobody seems to know. Aside from diazepam being so short acting and nasty in general, it is so depressing and different.

 

Hi,  not sure your signature is correct but looks like 2mg of K single dosage a day.  Have you considering giving diazepam another try but break your dosage into 2 a day.  I got my K down to .5mg 2 times a day before I did the switch to diazepam and I a doing good now on diazepam.  I know everyone is different and this might not work for you.  Just an idea in case you have not tried this before.  Best to you.

 

kgirl found it difficult to take a large dose of Valium, instead of her K, so she just used 2 mg and then tapered her K from there. Now she is doing her Valium.

[Guest [...]]

Currently on clonazepam. Aside from 'paradoxical' reactions, a harsh effect/side effect profile and my poor health, anything else to use to get off clonazepam?

 

Nobody seems to know. Aside from diazepam being so short acting and nasty in general, it is so depressing and different.

 

Hi,  not sure your signature is correct but looks like 2mg of K single dosage a day.  Have you considering giving diazepam another try but break your dosage into 2 a day.  I got my K down to .5mg 2 times a day before I did the switch to diazepam and I a doing good now on diazepam.  I know everyone is different and this might not work for you.  Just an idea in case you have not tried this before.  Best to you.

 

kgirl found it difficult to take a large dose of Valium, instead of her K, so she just used 2 mg and then tapered her K from there. Now she is doing her Valium.

 

Who is Kgirl I was responding to liberty

[[be...]]

She's a very nice women on BB. I was just using her as an example how she got off her K with just a little bit of Valium, that's all.

[[li...]]

I appreciate the suggestions, I tried both but it didn't work ...

[[be...]]

Sorry. Seems you are in a bind.

[[li...]]

Ok. Just a little addendum.

 

In mentioned this in the KK thread, but since it moves so fast over there I'll go over this quickly right here. I had been in contact with an addiction doc by email. He seemed somewhat knowledgeable.

 

A few days ago, I received an email in which he offered me to take part in a experimental flumazenil detox program. A pilot program. About 6 days, the benzo is stopped, and daily flumazenil infusions take place. People would actually start feeling better while getting the infusions !

I asked him about long half life benzos and the role of flumazenil. A neurologist claimed that the success of flumazenil was less certain with long acting benzos.

His answer was that this had not been studied ! His program is mostly based on experiences in Australia. According to the man, most high dose users use multiple benzodiazepines, more or less at the same time ! So it would be difficult to study.

 

My take is that most people coming to addiction services are 'junkies', true addicts, people with severe psychiatric problems, having a low IQ or inability to exercise some discipline for a plan !

That's the feeling I get.

 

Also, his background in theory seems to be minimal. Just 'GABA'. Almost a reason to cry.

 

Local addiction services offer clinic detoxes consisting of 3-6 weeks diazepam tapers, following a strict protocol. Outside the clinic it's just a 'slow taper'.

 

He had to retract his offer (which he made after he couldn't find anyone with even some experience/affinity in getting people off benzos) to help me because his job had changed.

 

What a wonderful country I'm in ! I couldn't even get a pheno detox if my life depended on it !

Just that nasty, very nasty diazepam.

 

A bit like a rant I suppose.

 

God, what will I do next ?

[[be...]]

I'm sorry. That sounds like a scam. But Cottonwoods in Tucson offers a 30-day detox with the use of pheno every day. It's like being at a resort, it's that nice, but your only problem is the benzos. Some people I have talked to thought it was great, but boy, I hope you have good insurance. It costs major $$. But at least you meet every day with the head benzo wise psych there who knows what he is doing. The odd thing tho, he wears a MJ baseball uniform every day to work. I guess he likes the Dodgers.

[[li...]]

Well, it's not really a scam but I don't think flumazenil will be the solution for me. It might work if it were an 'extra' to something else, maybe at the end of a long taper. It has been ages since I read that flumazenil thread.

 

Visiting any 'spa' in the USA would be very expensive, certainly not covered by insurance. My insurance only covers what they offer in the country I 'live' in.

 

I just need to find anything else than diazepam/clonazepam ...

[[be...]]

I'm sorry Liberty: I assumed you lived in the US. I guess my insurance wouldn't pay for a spa is another country as well. I hope you find a solution. Maybe the 3rd generation of benzos will come out soon. I know they have been in the works for a while now. But they won't call them benzos, because of bad press. But they will be benzos. A rose is a rose is a rose........

 

Betsy

[[li...]]

I've read about the 3rd generation of benzos, but I don't think they'll ever get on the market.

Antidepressants and antipsychotics abound ... Besides, getting those new benzos to compete in the market with the off-patent (nearly free) benzos ... Nope.

 

This is just a horrible country concerning benzos. They might know how to deal with 20 mg temazepam, but the high potency benzodiazepines ... (lorazepam, alprazolam, clonazepam)

 

I'm pretty much at the end of my rope. I wouldn't know where to get help either. I had some other (physical) health issues, and was told to taper off clonazepam first ... (that neurologist, healthtap, that I wrote about said something like 'that sort of attitude can create all sorts of complications') Even my GP refused gabapentin/Lyrica when I wanted to give that a try.

[[be...]]

Liberty:

 

I guess you are holding until you figure this out? I'm assuming you live in England or Canada. NHS. Blah.

[[li...]]

I tried diazepam for 2.5 days a bit over a week ago I think ... it really made me feel sick. Part of that is my general health.

 

So, not tapering right now.

 

Somewhere in continental Europe ... where healthcare is awful, and doctors being benzo-wise meaning they won't start people on benzos, that's the end of it.

 

Horrible medical bureaucracy.

[[be...]]

I don't know what to tell you anymore. I guess you can't try another, different, benzo?

[[li...]]

Which one would that be ... ?? I guess that's the question.

[[be...]]

Running out of suggestions. But Tranzene?

[[li...]]

Thanks, I did try Tranxene ... very weak, short acting, and quite different ... there may not be an alternative ... (I know, long half life)

 

Maybe I should get something like gabapentin somehow. The GP rejected that earlier.

Oh, if only I could turn back the clock.

 

Something like lorazepam - high potency, longer acting than diazepam, closer to clonazepam could have worked if the drug was not so extremely addictive and the GP messed it up.