HELP HELP HELP!!!

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M:

I can't answer all your questions I can only tell you I suffered witdrawals after just 2 weeks of Xanax 30mg total, cold turkeyed then went back on Xanax and my GP gave me Zoloft ,and said that would take care of my symptoms, well horse pucky after 42 days I quit Xanax went through 10 days cold turkey and had to switch to Valium, and quit the Zoloft. My point being these folks give good advice, I didn't switch to the equivalent Valium dose  that is suggested, because of 2 reasons crappy Doc, and short time user. I couldn't even start till I got stable. whats stable, thats for you to decide,how much whatever makes you feel functional.

 

B

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I saw a PDOC tonight who said that I should switch to Klonopin because it was longer lasting and then taper from that. Does that sound like a plan so I can get off the xanax sooner? Please answer quick I need to make a decision soon!!!!

 

Is Klonopin easier to get off of than xanax?

 

 

M

[[Co...]]

Hi M,

 

I had a really tough time withdrawing from Klonopin. But, when I was withdrawing I had none of the information we offer here, such as titrating or substitution for Valium, etc. I'm sure withdrawal would have been easier if I was using the titration method. At the same time, Valium is a better choice in my opinion - very many agree. The problem is that, historically, Valium has had a very bad press, and although the newer benzos are as bad or worse, the perception (even by doctors) is that Valium is the bad benzo. For the purposes of withdrawal, Valium is the best choice.

 

I know that more and more doctors are substituting benzos with Klonopin, particularly in the US. If your doctor will not offer Valium, and you really need to go back on the benzos to taper off properly, then I suppose K is the best option in the circumstances. It should be easier to manage your withdrawal with Klonopin, but at the same time, anecdotally, Klonopin seems to cause some individuals particular problems. I've never taken Xanax, but when it comes to managing a withdrawal, Klonopin, on face value, offers advantages over Xanax. I wish I could give you a black and white answer - I cannot. It is worth baring in mind that some (a small number) seem to have a really tough time with Valium, so it's all a bit of a lucky-dip anyway.

 

Take care, M,

 

Colin.

[Guest [...]]

Mike,

I'd go for it. If you don't have Ashton's crossover plan. I'll look it up for you. Cross, be stable for a few days, and begin the taper. You'll need to titrate this. It's just too strong for pill-splitting.

 

We are getting almost a Klonopin titration group now. You'll have company. We'll give complete instructions. I assume that there's no chance that your doc will go for a compounded liquid. Don't fret. You can make your own.

 

I know that you are already scared. Now there's the new unknown of Klonopin. You are far from all alone. So try to relax. This is going to work for you.

 

Crossover to Klonopin, get stable, make a liquid K, and titrate.

Awwww, you're gonna love it.

Jana

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how do i get stable on  the K? Is it more potent than the xanax? will i be more of a zombie on it? i dont even know what im doing with the xanax. i still take a .5 at night with still intermittent doses during the day. i hate to go to something stronger. i want off all of these things.

 

 

m

[[el...]]

how do i get stable on  the K? Is it more potent than the xanax? will i be more of a zombie on it? i dont even know what im doing with the xanax. i still take a .5 at night with still intermittent doses during the day. i hate to go to something stronger. i want off all of these things.

 

 

m

 

Hi there,

 

One way to get stable is to make sure you are taking your doses on a very regular schedule, no matter which benzo you are on.  I'm doing klonopin and am getting toward the end of the taper.  I used to take it on an "as needed" basis which, I believe, was making it really hard for me to be stable.  And like most people on this forum will tell you, slowly tapering off helps the stability.  Big and/or fast cuts can be a mistake as they can have a destabilizing effect on most people.  That was the case for me. I am much better off now that I am on a lower dose and am tapering slowly and functioning fairly well.  You probably have already heard this, but it's the tortoise and the hare - slow and steady wins the race (but, of course it's not a race).

 

Peace,

Elwood

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Hi Therionnn,

 

I just saw your "shout" where you mentioned you thought you might be losing it.

 

We all go through that.  It's to be expected.  You will notice, most likely, waves of emotions.  Try to remember that you are not your emotions and that they really are like waves and they always pass through.  You just have to wait them out and learn to not react to them.  Fear of losing it is actually a good sign.  You are receiving signals from your body/mind that things are out of whack and your brain is recognizing it.  Remember, our brains are normally self-correcting for the most part.  Although we operate with a handicap while on benzos and during w/d, that self-correcting mechanizm is still there and will get you through all this.  It may not be graceful, but it will get you through this.

 

When you experience that feeling like you are losing it, realize that it is temporary and that it will pass.  Learn to recognize when it does pass.  Same with the other emotions.  If you feel depression or anxiety, let it go through you and let it pass.  Don't hold on to it with your thoughts - that will just prolong the discomfort.  Don't feed it with negative thoughts, just let the wave pass through you.  Feed your brain with positive programming and make that a habit.  Eventually the positive thoughts will gain strength and will help you a great deal.

 

We've all been through all this and at times it's not pretty.  But, it does get better.  I was a total mess a year ago.  Major anxiety, depression, inability to think clearly, etc.  Now I'm back on track and all the symptoms just started gradually fading away.  The same will happen for you.

 

You WILL be okay.

 

Elwood

 

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Your bio says you're still "flakey". Is that from the Klonopin or just a joke? Will it zombify me? I am afraid of cog fog and oversedation and depersonalization. I need to be able to relate to my kids and my wife.

 

M

[[el...]]

Your bio says you're still "flakey". Is that from the Klonopin or just a joke? Will it zombify me? I am afraid of cog fog and oversedation and depersonalization. I need to be able to relate to my kids and my wife.

 

M

 

M,

 

I was being serious though I do tend to joke around a lot.  By flakey, I mean that I have minor versions of w/d symptoms.  They are much weaker than they used to be  I will at times have trouble with my memory, concentration, etc.  A minor version of the cog fox thing. 

 

As you cut, oversedation should subside quite a bit.  Depersonalization & derealization for me was really bad when I was on the higher doses of the benzo (klonopin for me).  As I have been going through w/d, these have gotten better though making a cut will tend to upset the apple cart a little for most people.  You'll just have to fight the symptoms the best you can and you will be allright.

 

The fact that you are totally aware that you need to relate to your family is a very good sign.  I was too screwed up to realize that I needed to do that.  And so I didn't relate to them very well.  I lived in my garage for about a year, if you can believe that.  Once I settled down, everything got better.  I had to relearn how to relate to people all over again but as long as I made an effort, I made progress.  I was fortunate in that I had a very patient wife.  Very fortunate.  My kids needed me and I wasn't really able to be there for them at first but it got much better and we have a good relationship now.  I'm their dad again.

 

Although at times things may seem pretty rough, your story can have a happy ending and you can get back to life as you used to live it.  No permanent damage from this junk, it just takes longer than we want.  When you have made a lot of progress, you will be able to look back at all this and see that it has made you a much stronger person.  A lot of people say that.

 

Elwood 

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I have an extremely serious question. Since as you all know I was never sure of my dose shedule for xanax because I took it so erratically. Well I have felt weird the last few days, fatigue, leaden limbs (feet). But..... the weird thing is that I took my last dose at 11:00 last night, .5 to sleep, it is now 10:33 AM and I haven't taken anymore yet. Except for minor anxiousness and slight pain at the top of my head, I dont feel so bad right now. What is that all about? It's been 11 1/2 hours since I took any and I dont feel so bad right now. Is this normal? Does it take  a few days for my body to realize? Would I be freaking out now if I was withdrawing? I really want off this stuff, does this mean I really dont have to take so much during the day and could just maybe stick to the night dose for now? I am so confused because I dont feel half bad now. I did take a .5 and an ambien to sleep. Dont know if I can stop that yet. If I do go to Klonopin will it sedate me more than xanax? I dont want to feel worse that I do on this crap. Will taking K get me more hooked if I am not so bad on Xanax now? If I can't sleep is Serquel an option? Sleeplessness is the worst and no matter how I feel now going thru the night with no sleep will probably send my anxiety back up.

 

WHAT DO I DO? I FEEL SEMI  OK. DO I TAKE A 2.5 JUST BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN? WILL I GET HIT HARD LATER? TOMORROW? NEXT WEEK????

 

 

HELP? QUICK SO I KNOW WHAT TO DO.

M

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M:

HERE'S WHAT I DID FOR A FEW DAYS, I WROTE DOWN THE EXACT TIME, THE EXACT DOSE, AND THE REASON  I TOOK MY NEXT DOSE THAT IS HOW I FELT. i HAD NO CHICE MY BODY TOLD ME YOU NEED THIS. IF YOU GET TO ANTSY TAKE, .125 INSTEAD OF .25 GIVEIT AWHILE TO WORK IF IT DOESN'T TAKE THE OTHER .125, BUT WRITE DOWN THE WHEN WHY AND HOW MUCH, THAT IS WHAT I DID, AND FOR ME AT LEAST IT GAVE ME SOME CONTROLL AND BETTER UNDERSTANDING. AGAIN THIS IS ONLY WHAT I DID AND MY OPIUON SOLEY

B

 

[[Co...]]

As Bob said, you could split your Xanax dose into two half doses, but did Bob manage to split his 0.5mg tablet into quarters (0.125mg)? I'm unsure! I know how tiny 0.5mg Xanax tablets are, so you may not be able to manage that. I agree with Bob's suggestion that you keep a diary of your withdrawal regimen and of how you feel. Sometimes though, we just feel better, and for no apparent reason. It might well be the case that the reason you felt better today is because you are adjusting to your regimen, and the Xanax has built up to a level where you feel OK. With a short half-life benzo, it will probably be a week or more (at a guess) for you to reach equilibrium, where you have reached a stable dose - you are metabolising benzo at the same rate as you ingesting it. With Valium, I imagine it will take very many weeks to reach equilibrium.

 

As I have said before, I recommend that you take Xanax four or more times a day, at set times, evenly spread throughout the day, and keep to this timetable. It is a stable blood level of benzo that you should be aiming for.

[Guest [...]]

Hi Mike,

Bobers' recording method is almost essential . We can forget what happened an hour ago when in the early stages. The information tells us where we're headed. My first records were scratches on a calender. I was shaking to badly to do better but it would have helped.

 

It's essential to record what we took and at what time.

 

You're dealing with Xanax. It has two things not going for it. It is potent and it has a short half life. I've tried to deal with this. I moved on to Valium.

 

You have the chance to use Klonopin. I'd do it. It isn't sedating the way Valium is. It has a decent half life. You can handle the extreme strength by titrating. Just tell us how many mgs are in a tablet.

 

At your place in this thing, a 1.0mg K in 40.0ml liquid will work. That strength allows you to accurately measure the usual starting daily cut in 0.1ml. We can do the details tomorrow.

Jana

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Should I start by just taking the pill for a while to stabalize? Right now I am takign xanax when I feel the weirdness. I am trying not to take it all day so usually around the night time. .25 around 7ish or 6ish and a .5 at 11pm with ambien.

 

Is this a bad idea? Some parts of the day I dont feel so bad. Others, achy head, legs tremble. Dont know if this is all from lack of sleep as well. Cant really tell what is xanax and what is sleep deprivation or anxiety.

**Will I need to lose the ambien if I titrate from Klonopin?

**Can I use the klonopin pill form for a bit before titrating?

**When I titrate how do I sleep? This is essential for not going insane. I already cant nap during the day and never sleep at night. This seems extremely unnatural. Why cant I sleep ever? Not even to nod off. EVER. Even when I am "calm" I cant nod off. Benadryl and otcs do nothing.

**If I am taking xanax so erratically, .25 at late nightish and .5 always around 11pm how do I know how to stabalize on Klonopin? I dont want to take too much and then go backwards.

 

Im sure I have more questions. ill post them later,

Miserable,

M

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The sleep thing is really scaring me. What will I do to sleep if I cant take Ambien or rely on the klonopin?

 

 

Dont want to lose my job or my family.

 

M

[[Co...]]

Hi M,

 

We find that once people have become addicted/dependant upon benzos, it is better to get stable, then taper off. Once we are dependant upon these meds, part of becoming stable is to spread the dose over the day to rid ourselves of interdose withdrawal symptoms. From this point tapering should be easier to manage.

[[th...]]

isnt the point of switching to K so I dont have to spread it out through the day because it has such a longer half life?

 

I think I was only presrcibed it to take once or so a day, like at bed or so.

 

 

M

[[Co...]]

Klonopin is a better drug for taking over the day rather than something like Xanax which (because of its short half-life) is better for treating insomnia (less likely to feel drowsy the next day). Even so, Klonopin should be taken three times a day, and can of course be taken more. I was prescribed K as an anticonvulsant, and took it three times a day. K only has an averagely long half-life. Drugs like Xanax are best suited for 24 hour use because of their short half-life, but some people are forced to work it during withdrawal because their doctor is unwilling to switch them. Often, it is not necessary to switch - some manage fine even with the short acting benzos.

[[th...]]

Havent had any xanax today either like yesterday. Not feeling great. Tired, shakey, top of head weird feeling. weakness in legs. Bleary eyed. Like I said before some of these might be from horrendous sleep conditions. Was wondering why I am not in full blown panic attack mode if I the last time I took a .5 of xanax was last night at 11:30 pm with an ambien. Is it possible I am not as tolerant as I think I am. I dont know anymore. Ive been so tired I dont think I can have anxiety now. Is it stupid to try and hold off taking the xanax as long as I can? Am I doing more harm than good? I always seem to take a .5 to sleep. and if I get weird in the late pm I take .25, not more than that lately but feeling weird, out of sorts, tired, headachey. If I am doing the xanax thing like this....none til late pm and then .5 to sleep is switching to the K at 1mg a good idea? The effexor is still in the mix here 75mgs because everyone thinks it will be the magic bullet that lifts my anxiety and depression. I have use it before at 75mgs for a number of years. Stopped in 2/06. Thats why they want me back on that one since it seemed to "work" for me before.

 

Really concerned about the switch to K. Should I take the pill for a bit before beginning titration? How much should I take? Will it help me sleep initially?

 

This morning my daughter told me she thinks it's time that she takes baths and showers by herself. She's 8ish. I went into the bathroom and began to cry. I know she's right but I have lost two or three months of my life already and now this life changing moment comes when i am least able to handle it. I love my kids more than life itself but have not been the same father to them I once was. I think she might have heard me because she later told me I could continue to give her baths for a while if I wanted to. She didnt mind. That made me cry more. This is all so hard. The anxiety/depression/benzo crap and life on top of it. Seems to much to me. Can't seem to get a handle on one thing, sleep, benzos, anxiety, depression. Viscious cycle. How does one break it? One seems so strongly linked to the others. Feel like my brain is falling out.

 

Sorry to mush up the boards so much. Just desperate to get a handle on something. Life is whirling on around me and I am standing still.

 

Any help would be appreciated

M

 

[Guest [...]]

Hi Mike,

I've heard the idea that Xanax' short half life means that any W/D will show upwithin hours.  was that full  C/T W/D with short  didn't show up for 16 days. Then it hit so hard that I couldn't eat,sleep, or walk well enough to get myself to a doctor. without help. Then the doctor did absolutely nothing, and I was in for something even worse. This may not happen to everyone, but it illustrates the fact that the half life doesn't predict much of anything that will follow.

 

So I would start the Klonopin now. That doesn't mean just staying on that amount and increasing the problem. If it stabilizes you well enough, you can start tapering right away. I'd stay on the first amount for about six days to be sure that nothing unusual will happen. I'd be surprised if it did, but it's best not to tempt the benzo monster.

 

Just to start, I'd divide the dose into four for the day. It's easy to change this later. Since you wakeup so often anyway, I'dtake 1/4 of the total tonight.  I'd also use 3.0mg melatonin. If you're still awake, you have a choice.You can take the next 1/4 or try some Benadryl.  You may have to fool around with this until you know what to expect from it.

 

Now for the part that's not my business: An eight year old girl needs to bathe by herself. You both may miss the time playing in the water together. Adding some other special time together can replace bath time. I really like reading at bedtime. It doesn't have to be baby reading. You could start a long book and look forward to the next chapter each night. If she likes animals, Watership Down is a nice long one. It's a way for both of you to unwind and get ready to sleep.  Some historical novels are good too. They give the two of you some bigger things to talk about.

Jana

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I just picked up the K and the doctor was only able to call in a 15 day supply. They are .5s and the directions are to take three times a day. They are scored. So I guess that means they can be brokn into .25s? I am afraid to start anything with just a 5 day supply. Did you mean in your post that the wds from xanax hit you 16 days after you stopped? 16?

 

Now, Im really scared. I guess the doctor is going to have to mail me a prescription for more. She is in the city and actually doesnt live there but commutes.  How did you take the supplements? What exactly were they?

 

I am so depressed. Why isnt anything im doing helping?

 

Sorry to whine. Im just concerned. What if this isnt benzo dependance? I know I have taken them on and off for a while but maybe this is just my disorder and all this stuff is prolonging something. I am very confused about which way to go. Should I hold off on the K until I get a bigger supply under my belt?

 

M

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My pdoc said that .25 of K is equal to .5 of xanax. IS she right? I thought it was dose equivalant 1x=1k?

 

I really dont want to fog out. Will the K make me fog out more? How much should I take if I am only taking .5 at night now of xanax?

 

If I go into wds from not taking any xanax and then go on the K will the situation right itself or will I be all out of kilter?

 

 

M

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Some doctors in the US switch patients onto clonazepam (Klonopin, [Rivotril in Canada]), believing that it will be easier to withdraw from than say alprazolam (Xanax) or lorazepam (Ativan) because it is more slowly eliminated. However, Klonopin is far from ideal for this purpose. It is an extremely potent drug, is eliminated much faster than diazepam (See Table 1, Chapter I), and the smallest available tablet in the US is 0.5mg (equivalent to 10mg diazepam) and 0.25mg in Canada (equivalent to 5mg Valium). It is difficult with this drug to achieve a smooth, slow fall in blood concentration, and there is some evidence that withdrawal is particularly difficult from high potency benzodiazepines, including Klonopin.

 

This is from the Ashton Manual. Is this true? Am I going to have a more difficult time with this?

Why would this lady who ran a clinic for 12 years say this?

 

M

 

[Guest [...]]

Hi M,

It's easy for people to run clinics and put people through hell and still make money. People have no choices of treatment. It's  rough treatment or none. Few people will get a supply of a tolerable benzo and do his themselves. They are understandably scared and confused.

 

I had no choice. No competent doctor within 30miles would go near a benzo patient. I ran into many scams sucking in desperate people. I did have some good fortune in being able to leave home to get a Valium prescription. Not even that nice doctor had a clue to how to do this. Anyway I do understand the overwhelming problem.

 

The Ashton quote is true in my experience. For the purpose of W/D, 1.0mg Xenix equals 1.0mg Klonopin. Your doctor can make a very good living while making this mistake. Her patients don't have  ready alternatives.

 

Your doctor will be angry if you show her the Ashton Manual. If you useyour doctor's K dose, you'll be in trouble. So don't throw away your Xanax. You may need it to augment the inadequate Klonopin.

 

Have you tried to call around for other doctors? A willing GP is a good choice.

Jana

[[th...]]

So what do I do now????

 

 

M