Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[...]]

Thanks Builder. I appreciate your knowledge and support.

[[bu...]]

Thanks Builder. I appreciate your knowledge and support.

 

You're welcome.

 

And BTW, if you're using PG, your making a solution, not a suspension! 

[[Ul...]]

Thanks Builder. I appreciate your knowledge and support.

 

You're welcome.

 

And BTW, if you're using PG, your making a solution, not a suspension! 

 

What's the difference between a solution and a suspension?? JUST KIDDING!! 

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

Thanks Builder. I appreciate your knowledge and support.

 

You're welcome.

 

And BTW, if you're using PG, your making a solution, not a suspension! 

 

What's the difference between a solution and a suspension?? JUST KIDDING!! 

 

Jeff

 

:laugh:

[[Pe...]]

 

 

 

Probably reading about people getting more symptoms at lower doses is influencing.

 

Folks have difficulty at lower doses because they try to maintain the same absolute (mgs) cut rate, instead of adjust in the cut rate so they have a steady percentage cut rate.

 

If you maintain a fairly stable percentage cut rate, it is extremely unlikely you have any problems at lower doses.  Most folks who keep the percentage manageable find the lower doses easier.

 

Hello everyone,

I am one that is getting lower in my dose and becoming very symptomatic. I notice as soon as my sleep gets bad again everything else follows. I am currently into my second week of holding at .071mg. I usually have relief and sleep improvement by the end of the first week of holding. Not this time. I'm thinking of adding another week of holding. I'm getting so close to the end and am hoping I don't need to reduce less than .001 mg per day. Any suggestions?

Btw, I'm also extremely sensitive to supplements, so less is more in my case.

 

Peaceflower

[[bu...]]

 

 

 

Probably reading about people getting more symptoms at lower doses is influencing.

 

Folks have difficulty at lower doses because they try to maintain the same absolute (mgs) cut rate, instead of adjust in the cut rate so they have a steady percentage cut rate.

 

If you maintain a fairly stable percentage cut rate, it is extremely unlikely you have any problems at lower doses.  Most folks who keep the percentage manageable find the lower doses easier.

 

Hello everyone,

I am one that is getting lower in my dose and becoming very symptomatic. I notice as soon as my sleep gets bad again everything else follows. I am currently into my second week of holding at .071mg. I usually have relief and sleep improvement by the end of the first week of holding. Not this time. I'm thinking of adding another week of holding. I'm getting so close to the end and am hoping I don't need to reduce less than .001 mg per day. Any suggestions?

Btw, I'm also extremely sensitive to supplements, so less is more in my case.

 

Peaceflower

 

If your dosage is .071mg/day, and your cutting .001mg/day, that's 20%/14 days.  That's huge!

 

Thar's the point I keep making...if you don't adjust your absolute (mg) cut rate as you dose declines, the percentage cut becomes overwhelming.

[[Pe...]]

 

 

 

Probably reading about people getting more symptoms at lower doses is influencing.

 

Folks have difficulty at lower doses because they try to maintain the same absolute (mgs) cut rate, instead of adjust in the cut rate so they have a steady percentage cut rate.

 

If you maintain a fairly stable percentage cut rate, it is extremely unlikely you have any problems at lower doses.  Most folks who keep the percentage manageable find the lower doses easier.

 

Hello everyone,

I am one that is getting lower in my dose and becoming very symptomatic. I notice as soon as my sleep gets bad again everything else follows. I am currently into my second week of holding at .071mg. I usually have relief and sleep improvement by the end of the first week of holding. Not this time. I'm thinking of adding another week of holding. I'm getting so close to the end and am hoping I don't need to reduce less than .001 mg per day. Any suggestions?

Btw, I'm also extremely sensitive to supplements, so less is more in my case.

 

Peaceflower

 

If your dosage is .071mg/day, and your cutting .001mg/day, that's 20%/14 days.  That's huge!

 

Thar's the point I keep making...if you don't adjust your absolute (mg) cut rate as you dose declines, the percentage cut becomes overwhelming.

 

Thank you Builder. I knew this was probably the case. I am doing Bob's method and am hoping he can weigh in with a suggestion on how I should adjust my spreadsheet/calculations for a lower percentage.

 

Peace 

[[mo...]]

Hi Peace, I’m sorry you’re experiencing more symptoms. I had to hold one time for a few weeks but then I was able to resume and finish at .001 per day. Who knows if another week will help but it’s worth a try. I wasn’t someone who felt better as I got to lower doses, it was difficult throughout the final days but fairly manageable. Hang in there, you’re very close!

[[...]]

Hi Peace, I’m sorry you’re experiencing more symptoms. I had to hold one time for a few weeks but then I was able to resume and finish at .001 per day. Who knows if another week will help but it’s worth a try. I wasn’t someone who felt better as I got to lower doses, it was difficult throughout the final days but fairly manageable. Hang in there, you’re very close!

I also managed to reach zero benzo by reducing my Klonopin by 0.001 mg per day.  While it is true at lower doses the percent change it’s crazy high it worked for me. After all, when I reached the last dose of 0.001 mg,  my last dose was 100% change .  At these low doses,  The percent change is sort of just mathematical. The thing is, if you gradually got down to the low doses, I believe things are more tolerable.

[[Pe...]]

Hi Peace, I’m sorry you’re experiencing more symptoms. I had to hold one time for a few weeks but then I was able to resume and finish at .001 per day. Who knows if another week will help but it’s worth a try. I wasn’t someone who felt better as I got to lower doses, it was difficult throughout the final days but fairly manageable. Hang in there, you’re very close!

 

Thank you Mountaintop!  I think I may add another week. My sleep has never been good but I journal every day and could see that the last time it was somewhat decent was in May. "Manageable" has always been questionable for me. If I didn't have to work a full time job I think it'd be more manageable.

 

Peace

[[Pe...]]

Hi Peace, I’m sorry you’re experiencing more symptoms. I had to hold one time for a few weeks but then I was able to resume and finish at .001 per day. Who knows if another week will help but it’s worth a try. I wasn’t someone who felt better as I got to lower doses, it was difficult throughout the final days but fairly manageable. Hang in there, you’re very close!

I also managed to reach zero benzo by reducing my Klonopin by 0.001 mg per day.  While it is true at lower doses the percent change it’s crazy high it worked for me. After all, when I reached the last dose of 0.001 mg,  my last dose was 100% change .  At these low doses,  The percent change is sort of just mathematical. The thing is, if you gradually got down to the low doses, I believe things are more tolerable.

 

Thank you Bob! I'm thankful for all the help you've given me.My symptoms have not been tolerable in a while. If another week of holding doesn't help, can you tell me if it's possible to go lower than .001 per day with this method? I need to funtion at my job. I opted out of flying to Washington DC for work because traveling is extemely difficult for me. We are going to San Diego in October and I don't want to miss that one.

Thank you for your input,

Peace 

[[...]]

Peaceflower - I think you know the answer... you haven't felt good in a while, sxs are worsening... you're rate is probable too fast for you at this point.  It's a different drug, I know, but my rate is less than half of yours and I feel pretty good.  I did have to slow down at the very end and it helped.  Good luck.

Not wanting to slow down is never a good reason to not slow down, IMHO.  If you have another good reason not to slow, that's a different story.  No one here WANTS to slow down....but if we want to feel as good as possible, that is just the way this works.  Either way, you'll get off and heal, but how do you want to feel in the meantime??

[[...]]

Hi Peace, I’m sorry you’re experiencing more symptoms. I had to hold one time for a few weeks but then I was able to resume and finish at .001 per day. Who knows if another week will help but it’s worth a try. I wasn’t someone who felt better as I got to lower doses, it was difficult throughout the final days but fairly manageable. Hang in there, you’re very close!

I also managed to reach zero benzo by reducing my Klonopin by 0.001 mg per day.  While it is true at lower doses the percent change it’s crazy high it worked for me. After all, when I reached the last dose of 0.001 mg,  my last dose was 100% change .  At these low doses,  The percent change is sort of just mathematical. The thing is, if you gradually got down to the low doses, I believe things are more tolerable.

 

Thank you Bob! I'm thankful for all the help you've given me.My symptoms have not been tolerable in a while. If another week of holding doesn't help, can you tell me if it's possible to go lower than .001 per day with this method? I need to funtion at my job. I opted out of flying to Washington DC for work because traveling is extemely difficult for me. We are going to San Diego in October and I don't want to miss that one.

Thank you for your input,

Peace 

Yes we should be able to re-compute your daily dose for any level of tapering.

[[Pe...]]

Peaceflower - I think you know the answer... you haven't felt good in a while, sxs are worsening... you're rate is probable too fast for you at this point.  It's a different drug, I know, but my rate is less than half of yours and I feel pretty good.  I did have to slow down at the very end and it helped.  Good luck.

Not wanting to slow down is never a good reason to not slow down, IMHO.  If you have another good reason not to slow, that's a different story.  No one here WANTS to slow down....but if we want to feel as good as possible, that is just the way this works.  Either way, you'll get off and heal, but how do you want to feel in the meantime??

 

Thank you libr. Yes it's true I don't want to slow down but feeling this way is so not worth it. I felt disappointed and a bit depressed yesterday knowing it would be longer. Truth is, I am more upset that I work in the industry that prescribes and can't get anyone higher up to understand this. When I have symptom at work and can only talk to a handful of people that are at least trying to understand. 

[[Pe...]]

Hi Peace, I’m sorry you’re experiencing more symptoms. I had to hold one time for a few weeks but then I was able to resume and finish at .001 per day. Who knows if another week will help but it’s worth a try. I wasn’t someone who felt better as I got to lower doses, it was difficult throughout the final days but fairly manageable. Hang in there, you’re very close!

I also managed to reach zero benzo by reducing my Klonopin by 0.001 mg per day.  While it is true at lower doses the percent change it’s crazy high it worked for me. After all, when I reached the last dose of 0.001 mg,  my last dose was 100% change .  At these low doses,  The percent change is sort of just mathematical. The thing is, if you gradually got down to the low doses, I believe things are more tolerable.

 

Thank you Bob! I'm thankful for all the help you've given me.My symptoms have not been tolerable in a while. If another week of holding doesn't help, can you tell me if it's possible to go lower than .001 per day with this method? I need to funtion at my job. I opted out of flying to Washington DC for work because traveling is extemely difficult for me. We are going to San Diego in October and I don't want to miss that one.

Thank you for your input,

Peace 

Yes we should be able to re-compute your daily dose for any level of tapering.

 

Thanks Bob! What do you suggest? I wasn't sure if that scale could do something lower. I also have only 60 pills left.

[[...]]

Peaceflower - I think you know the answer... you haven't felt good in a while, sxs are worsening... you're rate is probable too fast for you at this point.  It's a different drug, I know, but my rate is less than half of yours and I feel pretty good.  I did have to slow down at the very end and it helped.  Good luck.

Not wanting to slow down is never a good reason to not slow down, IMHO.  If you have another good reason not to slow, that's a different story.  No one here WANTS to slow down....but if we want to feel as good as possible, that is just the way this works.  Either way, you'll get off and heal, but how do you want to feel in the meantime??

 

Thank you libr. Yes it's true I don't want to slow down but feeling this way is so not worth it. I felt disappointed and a bit depressed yesterday knowing it would be longer. Truth is, I am more upset that I work in the industry that prescribes and can't get anyone higher up to understand this. When I have symptom at work and can only talk to a handful of people that are at least trying to understand. 

 

I know it's depressing to slow but it's even worse to feel like crap,....so lesser of two evils, accept and move on.  You'll get there soon enough. What industry are you in?

[[mo...]]

It’s true Peace, you have to do what works for you. I had to go much slower than I expected and push the jump date out a few times. It’s very frustrating. I work as well so I had to also remain functional. Distraction really did help me towards the end and I tried not to think about the jump date and focus on other things. I find this process causes time to stand still but I also found (and still find) myself losing track of time as it seemed to move more quickly too. Hard to explain. At any rate, if you do slow down then maybe you’ll be able to speed up again once you feel better. One last thing, when I was using Bob’s method I didn’t make all of my pills for the month. Instead I would make each dose a few days ahead or the night of depending on how I was feeling. That way I could hold a day here or there or skip ahead if I felt brave with low sx. Not sure if that might work for you too.

[[Pe...]]

Peaceflower - I think you know the answer... you haven't felt good in a while, sxs are worsening... you're rate is probable too fast for you at this point.  It's a different drug, I know, but my rate is less than half of yours and I feel pretty good.  I did have to slow down at the very end and it helped.  Good luck.

Not wanting to slow down is never a good reason to not slow down, IMHO.  If you have another good reason not to slow, that's a different story.  No one here WANTS to slow down....but if we want to feel as good as possible, that is just the way this works.  Either way, you'll get off and heal, but how do you want to feel in the meantime??

 

Thank you libr. Yes it's true I don't want to slow down but feeling this way is so not worth it. I felt disappointed and a bit depressed yesterday knowing it would be longer. Truth is, I am more upset that I work in the industry that prescribes and can't get anyone higher up to understand this. When I have symptom at work and can only talk to a handful of people that are at least trying to understand. 

 

I know it's depressing to slow but it's even worse to feel like crap,....so lesser of two evils, accept and move on.  You'll get there soon enough. What industry are you in?

 

Libr, I work in the psychiatric industry. It's so sad to watch them taking people off these meds left and right and I have to bite my tongue. I've been sending information tobour chief clinical director in hopes that she'll cone to me for more. Smart lady who may be open to learning. They are aware that people are reporting their symptoms but still have no clue.

[[Pe...]]

It’s true Peace, you have to do what works for you. I had to go much slower than I expected and push the jump date out a few times. It’s very frustrating. I work as well so I had to also remain functional. Distraction really did help me towards the end and I tried not to think about the jump date and focus on other things. I find this process causes time to stand still but I also found (and still find) myself losing track of time as it seemed to move more quickly too. Hard to explain. At any rate, if you do slow down then maybe you’ll be able to speed up again once you feel better. One last thing, when I was using Bob’s method I didn’t make all of my pills for the month. Instead I would make each dose a few days ahead or the night of depending on how I was feeling. That way I could hold a day here or there or skip ahead if I felt brave with low sx. Not sure if that might work for you too.

 

Thank you Mountaintop! I usually make 3 wks at a time. Seems to be my happy medium. I wanted to hold a week sooner but my laptop broke down, so I waited too long.

Relief is on the way! 

[[Mo...]]

For you ladies that are doing the dry micro-taper, would this be quite hard if you are dosing 3x per day?  How hard was it to make up your pills?  I saw some of Bob's method.  Looks like you guys dosed only 1x per day at night - wish I would've/could've stayed there.  I clearly screwed up my taper all over the place, destabilizing my CNS - can't go back and redo, unfortunately.  But now, I'm trying to move forward and find a way that will work - I don't want to switch to Valium.  When I dry cut 1.6% of .5 mg over 4 days, it was too much, too quickly.  I'm having acute w/d symptoms now at .5 mg but I could be ok if I cut slowly and things didn't get too much worse, even if it took 2 years. 

 

Peaceflower,

Looks like you tried a liquid microtaper but then went to dry.  I didn't react well with vodka/water and am going to see if I can use Goat's milk.  Have to be able to tolerate that in itself first.  Just wondering why you made the switch back to dry?

[[Mo...]]

Also, anyone know if Goat's milk would be acceptable, if I can tolerate it?  Seems to be easier on my tummy at least than regular/lactose free whole milk.  But the vodka/water, I did not react well with - it absorbed too quickly or something.  I don't know if using goat's milk would help with that but I have to find a way to slowly reduce.....

[[bu...]]

For you ladies that are doing the dry micro-taper, would this be quite hard if you are dosing 3x per day?  How hard was it to make up your pills?  I saw some of Bob's method.  Looks like you guys dosed only 1x per day at night - wish I would've/could've stayed there.  I clearly screwed up my taper all over the place, destabilizing my CNS - can't go back and redo, unfortunately.  But now, I'm trying to move forward and find a way that will work - I don't want to switch to Valium.  When I dry cut 1.6% of .5 mg over 4 days, it was too much, too quickly.  I'm having acute w/d symptoms now at .5 mg but I could be ok if I cut slowly and things didn't get too much worse, even if it took 2 years. 

 

Peaceflower,

Looks like you tried a liquid microtaper but then went to dry.  I didn't react well with vodka/water and am going to see if I can use Goat's milk.  Have to be able to tolerate that in itself first.  Just wondering why you made the switch back to dry?

 

The easiest way to do multiple doses with  DLMT...

 

Pull up the fulll day's dose, and put it in a standard measuriing cup.  Top it up to 1 full cup with water (or any liquid).  If your doing 3 doses, drink 1/3 cup each dose, 4 doses, 1/4 cup, etc.

[[bu...]]

Also, anyone know if Goat's milk would be acceptable, if I can tolerate it?  Seems to be easier on my tummy at least than regular/lactose free whole milk.  But the vodka/water, I did not react well with - it absorbed too quickly or something.  I don't know if using goat's milk would help with that but I have to find a way to slowly reduce.....

 

Any fatty emulsion will work.  Cow's milk, goat's milk, soy milk, almond milk, etc.  Its the lipids (fat) that dissolve the benzo

[[Mo...]]

I know the liquid is the easiest way so that's why I want it to work!!!  But the vodka/water solution did not work.  It metabolized differently and I got increased symptoms.  I haven't had "brain buzzing" before or since, though a lot of other hellacious symptoms.  My stomach does seem to be tolerating the goat's milk, though....whether my brain/body will tolerate the DLMT with goat's milk or not will be the question.  I need to crush up the tablet first? 

[[Mo...]]

By the way, thanks Builder!  I pray that the goat milk can work!  If it does, hopefully, I can emplore your help with a schedule.