The Dizziness Group: For those who are floating, boating, falling or flying

[[La...]]

Hey prettydaisys, I have the "falling forward" feeling too -- so much so that my worst pain is in my forefoot. So, yes, brushing my teeth or washing my face is hard, as is getting out of a chair. They all seem to require a lot of negotiation between body and brain. So tiring, isn't it? It does explain why your leg muscles are tight, though. They have to work extra hard to stop you from falling.

[[La...]]

Here's another song for those floaty-boaty days/daze when you feel like giving up but know that this HAS to end:

 

"Sailing", by Rod Stewart:

 

 

It's got a good, calm rhythm to it, and who knows? It may even help you when you're trying to walk. 

 

 

 

[[La...]]

This 2013 study from Italy is called "Vertigo/dizziness as a Drugs' adverse reaction".

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24347974

 

This line from the Introduction section has an "interesting" use of the word "impressive":

 

"An impressive list of drugs may cause vertigo or dizziness."

 

Yes. 

 

They conclude the following:

 

"Despite the fact that these ADRs might not represent a direct threaten for life, indirectly they can cause secondary damage to patients such as falls, fractures etc. Balance should be accurately monitored during drug use and particularly in fragile patients."

 

 

[[ma...]]

I went to Physical Therapy for the first time today.  I went to see if my three bulging disc where causing my weak legs and for my balance issue. 

 

She did not think the disc are the cause of my weak legs.  She thinks it is due to muscle atrophy from being practically bedridden for six months during my taper.  I just wonder how much it is from that and just trying to keep my balance.  Maybe a combination.

 

She put me through several test and determined that my disequilibrium is caused by the CNS due to the eye movements I had.  She has recommended habituation exercises where you focus on a target and move your head from side to side.  I guess there will be others similar to this.  She said people have improved in as little as three weeks.  Of course she was not familiar with the effects of benzos in particular.  However, some had dizziness from other medications and got well.

 

Have any of you done these particular exercises?  I haven't done any VRT at all.

 

Afraid to get my hopes up.

 

By the way, I'm extremely fearful after reading the study about the older rats, as I'm no spring chicken.

[[Co...]]

Mama2,.....Yes...I have been to pt and learned several vestibular maneuvers for disequalibrium. I had a sudden onset vertigo that sent me to er. That is why I was prescribed ativan to begin with . No one recognized that the ativan was causing continued dizziness. Interestingly, while I was on Ativan and Mclazine for dizziness I had little improvement of dizziness with the vestibular exercises. I continued using drammamine after w/d from ativan. Thanks to this thread I now know that even drammamine supresses the ear. I have now resumed vestibular maneuvers without any dramamine and am currently having more success with them . They don't every time, but I am going through all of them a few times each day . My physical therapist also recommends Tia Chi rather than yoga. I am looking for a class. My ENT is adamant about moving rather than remaining still ( except in an episode of severe imbalance) . That is sometimes difficult for me as I.habitually try to avoid movements that increase the undulation or outright dizziness.

.....

[[ma...]]

Cooperten,

 

That gives me hope!  The PT has been the first one to address that my disequalibrium is coming from the CNS after seeing two ENT's. I have been doing the same thing for over 18 months of not wanting to move because of it.  She said the body adapts and if you don't provoke it, it can take longer to recover.

 

I bet the Tai Chi would be good for it.  Good luck finding a class.

[[La...]]

Mama2 and Cooperten, thanks so much for your excellent input! It's so good to hear about your experiences. Please let us know how the exercises go. Best wishes to you!

 

It IS very important to keep mobile for strength, flexibility and reflexes, which are necessary for regular muscle function and to prevent falls. Like the rule states, "Use it or lose it!" And limiting head movement causes negative adaptation as well. I read about that very early in this process so I never did that. My dizziness isn't related to head movements at all, though; it's just there consistently. Also, I don't have any abnormal eye movements, e.g. nystagmus. ENTs and physiotherapists who are assessing a person for vertigo will look for that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[La...]]

Mama2, you mentioned that you're "not a spring chicken" anymore, and I wanted to comment on that. I don't doubt that age is a factor in healing, but it doesn't mean that we won't heal. It's hard to extrapolate from a rat to a person, although they seem to use rats a lot in these medical studies. Drives me nuts! Anyway, it's hard to know how a 28-day-old rat compares with a human without understanding a bit more about rats. 

 

I don't think I'm a "spring chicken" anymore, but neither would I be considered "old". I just keep thinking about neuroplasticity and how amazing the brain is in its capacity to adapt and change. All of these articles that I've posted about vestibular compensation seem to be very hopeful. 

[[...]]

I feel light a giant hand is pushing me down,like i am made of cement,standing my legs feel like i am in a boat going up and down,shoulders are being pulled  up to my ears. Yesterday marked two years off for me ,anyone else out there like me? Dippstdoodle is me.

 

Dipps, I also read your sig.  I have very severe upper body muscle tension 24/7, extreme pulling sensation, my muscles feel like steel cables.  Upper back/neck/face/head.  It shifts from left to right.  I do have full range of motion though, but my upper back feels like thick, heavy rubber, like I'm carrying huge watermelons that I can never put down.    In my case, I truly believe this condition is the impetus for my unique pulsating/undulating rocky boat.  When I'm in that twilight zone in between falling asleep and/or fully awakening, I am symptom free (total 5-10 secs).  Wondering if you can relate at all?

 

I'm sorry you're struggling so badly and feeling so alone, I am too with my peculiar boating sensation.

 

Coop, I've also been considering Tai Chi for a very long time now.  It actually would be my first choice of exercise to try to loosen the muscles.  Unfortunately, I'm still at the point where I have to do everything spontaneously as/when I can, but I'm giving myself a stern talking to about trying to commit to more and taking myself off kicking and screaming.    Please keep updating us, I'm very keen to hear your thoughts.

 

Love you, Lapsy!    Hoping it's an easier day for you, my Dizzy Dame friend.  Dare I ask your score out of ten?  Keeping my (chicken) fingers crossed.  Oh, Rats, I can really be ever so annoying at times, can't I?         

 

PS - While I think of it, Lap, a little favor ... please keep posting if you happen to come across any studies or literature specifically on anticholinergic meds and perhaps lesser known side effects.  Always wondering if there are other contributing factors to my pulsating.  Big hugs!

 

 

[[La...]]

Hey abcd! Nice to see you again here! I hope you're hanging in there. Big hugs and good wishes are coming your way across the miles -- wherever you may be!

 

Thanks for asking how I'm doing. In my typical better-day/worse-day pattern, I've got an 8 out of 10 today, while yesterday was a lovely 6! I must say, though, that I haven't had any 9s in about a week. For me, it's good to have this scale so that I can chart the numbers and see if there are any changes over time. This process seems to be long and winding, and if I never feel the intensity of a 9 out of 10 on my scale, I'll be a happy camper. I really need a break and that would be a great sign of change. Oh please, oh please, oh please!

 

 

[[mo...]]

Mama2,.....Yes...I have been to pt and learned several vestibular maneuvers for disequalibrium. I had a sudden onset vertigo that sent me to er. That is why I was prescribed ativan to begin with . No one recognized that the ativan was causing continued dizziness. Interestingly, while I was on Ativan and Mclazine for dizziness I had little improvement of dizziness with the vestibular exercises. I continued using drammamine after w/d from ativan. Thanks to this thread I now know that even drammamine supresses the ear. I have now resumed vestibular maneuvers without any dramamine and am currently having more success with them . They don't every time, but I am going through all of them a few times each day . My physical therapist also recommends Tia Chi rather than yoga. I am looking for a class. My ENT is adamant about moving rather than remaining still ( except in an episode of severe imbalance) . That is sometimes difficult for me as I.habitually try to avoid movements that increase the undulation or outright dizziness.

.....

 

Hi All,

 

It's really interesting and helpful to read all of this thread. I have had episodes of severe vertigo as part of an onset aura due to seizure migraine disorder (how I got onto benzos in the first place) since I was a child. Now that I am tapering off of benzos, I am having more issues with balance again and transient attacks of full blown vertigo. Unfortunately, the ONLY thing I have ever found that stops the vertigo is Ativan, which of course now I can't take anymore so I end up "bed ridden" for a few hours and up to three days or more thinking "stop the world — I wanna get off!"

 

Fortunately, in the past few months I have had only short episodes of these; sometimes I will be sitting somewhere and suddenly things spin (not just "tilt") for a minute or so, and then, thankfully, it stops. However, it makes me leery about driving and every time is happens, like in a staff meeting or at restaurant, in the back of my mind I'm thinking, "uh oh...what if this time it STAYS this way and I can't get myself home!". It is probably the sxs that concerns me the most since it is truly debilitating when it happens.

 

One thing I have tried for nausea that I THINK helped me with balance a bit, is candied (actually, if I'm totally honest, the one I like best is the chocolate covered candied) ginger! Not everyone can safely take high amounts of ginger, (I take about 4-5 grams per day and skip a week then start again) so it's best to check with your doc, but either it's helping me a bit — or I am getting a great placebo effect from that chocolate!

 

I think Tai Chi is wonderful for balance issues and studies support the research for those with balance issues as well as for those who are aging and are losing some of their sense of stability. For those who can't leave the house or might not have a Tai Chi class available to them, there are some pretty good Tai Chi instruction videos and routines on YouTube that you can do in your own living room.

 

Looking forward to following this thread and learning more!

 

Best,

 

Mo

[[La...]]

Hi Mo! Nice to meet you, and thanks for joining us!

 

Your ginger tale brought a smile to my face! I've certainly read that ginger can be helpful for nausea and motion sickness, and I know there's a ginger version of Gravol (an anti-motion sickness tablet) here in Canada. And whether it's the ginger or the chocolate that has helped you, I'm glad you got some relief. Don't knock the "placebo effect" since apparently, it's a very powerful thing.

 

From your signature, it looks like you're in the midst of your taper, so I want to wish you all the best with that. I hope it's going smoothly. It's great that you're getting off the medication after such a long time. Excellent!

[[mo...]]

Hi Mo! Nice to meet you, and thanks for joining us!

 

Your ginger tale brought a smile to my face! I've certainly read that ginger can be helpful for nausea and motion sickness, and I know there's a ginger version of Gravol (an anti-motion sickness tablet) here in Canada. And whether it's the ginger or the chocolate that has helped you, I'm glad you got some relief. Don't knock the "placebo effect" since apparently, it's a very powerful thing.

 

From your signature, it looks like you're in the midst of your taper, so I want to wish you all the best with that. I hope it's going smoothly. It's great that you're getting off the medication after such a long time. Excellent!

 

Lapis - Thank you for that warm welcome!

[[Lo...]]

Here is a great beginner Tai Chi video

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7qAQ720x8&index=9&list=PLWcp9zPj8OPkj2kJsa6z5eJReG9Hp-VhU

[[La...]]

Here's a 2012 study (US) that looks at health care costs associated with long-term use of benzodiazepines. They found that use of benzos for periods greater than 90 days resulted in INCREASES in health care costs as a result of falls and fractures. And these falls and fractures -- as we all know on this thread -- resulted from DIZZINESS AND SEDATION.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23088742

 

So, if you needed any further evidence at all -- which I'm sure you don't -- that it's a very, VERY good idea to be off benzos, then this study provides it.

 

Keep putting one foot in front of the other on your journey towards wellness. Whether you're already off the medication or you're still in the process of doing so, you're getting there!

[[pr...]]

When I'm in that twilight zone in between falling asleep and/or fully awakening, I am symptom free (total 5-10 secs).  Wondering if you can relate at all?

 

twilght state is my only source or relief. i believe it to be the most healing state of all where "all that is" is...i try to do healings in that state.

[[Al...]]

Hi Dizzy Group-I hope everyone is having a great day!!!! I wanted to share some positive news. I never had a lot of dizziness but I did experience the rocking boat sensation for weeks as well as the floor feeling uneven when I walked in sneakers (that was last Sunday). I found those symptoms to be so annoying but I tried to ignore them and told myself they will abate in time. Today I was able to walk on my treadmill at a speed of 3.3 on an incline of 5.5 for 55 minutes without holding on. When I first came off of Valium I had to hold onto the railing on my treadmill.  Who knows what tomorrow will bring but today was a FRANTASTIC day and I felt like my old self before I ever swallowed a valium. We are all going to heal!!!

 

Sending good vibes to everyone and stay positive!!

Fran:)

[[Lo...]]

Hi Dizzy Group-I hope everyone is having a great day!!!! I wanted to share some positive news. I never had a lot of dizziness but I did experience the rocking boat sensation for weeks as well as the floor feeling uneven when I walked in sneakers (that was last Sunday). I found those symptoms to be so annoying but I tried to ignore them and told myself they will abate in time. Today I was able to walk on my treadmill at a speed of 3.3 on an incline of 5.5 for 55 minutes without holding on. When I first came off of Valium I had to hold onto the railing on my treadmill.  Who knows what tomorrow will bring but today was a FRANTASTIC day and I felt like my old self before I ever swallowed a valium. We are all going to heal!!!

 

Sending good vibes to everyone and stay positive!!

Fran:)

 

WOW!!!! This is amazing news!!! Yay! Thanks for sharing!!!! 

[[Al...]]

LovingMother-I started to do a new exercise to help with balance. I wanted to share it with every fabulous person on this group.

 

Stand in front of your dresser so you can hold on. Lift one leg and bend it back. Then close your eyes and let go of the dresser. Try to balance yourself for about 10-15 seconds. Then switch legs. Repeat each leg 10 times....Ashton mentioned this exercise and she feels it works. I just started it 3 days ago.

 

I just walked on my treadmill this AM for 4.04 miles on an incline of 5.5. I have never done that before and there is always a first:)

 

HOPING EVERYONE IS HAVING A GREAT DAY!!

FRAN:)

[[dr...]]

'm wondering whether our "boatiness" is all from withdrawal or is it my panic/anxiety that brings it on and then I focus on it?  I ask that because I had a lot of baotiness and dizziness(which is common in anxiety) on the walk to dr. office.  After my appt. it was much less when i felt better. Hmmm...regardless I am just ignoring it. 

[[La...]]

Anxiety can certainly play a role, but for some of us, the dizziness precedes the anxiety not the other way around. Dizziness is very disconcerting by definition. One feels "ungrounded" and "unstable".

 

On some days, I'm not too dizzy but I am anxious. Here's an example: I got stuck in an elevator one day when I wasn't too dizzy. I certainly got nervous about being stuck, but the anxiety did NOT make my dizziness worse. I actually wish there was a clear connection to something, because it would be easier to change it.

 

I'd say, though, that if anxiety is an issue, there are some great tools like CBT, deep breathing, exercise, music, meditation, etc. to address it.

[[dr...]]

I think it's a combo lapis...a lot of time my boatiness sets off my anxiety.  It is like the chicken and the egg question to me with sometimes each preceding the other.  The main thing I am focusing on now is acceptance and not trying to figure out where every symptom or feeling is coming from.  It is very difficult but I am trying.  As doing the things you listed to keep my anxiety in check I already am doing exercise, meditation. and just started CBT with a therapist.   

[[Al...]]

Drw28-Try mediation oasis you can download it on your iphone (under podcast) or on line it's free. When I had  waves of anxiety from the benzo w/d I did a meditation and trust me it worked. My shrink recommended it. I never suffered from anxiety before taking valium as a sleep aide.

Fran:)

[[dr...]]

I have it already...lol  I have been using it for years.  The other good one is The meditation  Podcast

[[Al...]]

DREW28 THANK YOU!! I'll check that one out too:)