60 Minutes excerpt about antidepressants: "Is There A Placebo Effect?"

[[La...]]

Hey abcd, just be good to yourself, okay? These videos will still be there next time you're up for listening to them, the best part is....there's no test! I agree, though, that it's great to share all these videos.

 

And Mind, you were lamenting the small number of views on one of the videos you watched, but I'm not surprised. Most people want things in small soundbites, so watching a one-hour educational video would be out of the question for all but the most interested people.

 

I've still got my list of "Watch These Videos" nearby, and I'll get to them soon. Seems like this thread would provide good fodder for a Bioethics class at university!

[Guest [Mi...]]

abcd, your memory will improve. It's really hard to concentrate, especially at only 4 months out. It will get better. 

 

Lapis, when I first made a face plant into this site, I couldn't watch anything for more than a few minutes. Another member sent me some very short guided meditations and I used to listen to those. Those short meditations were a life saver!

 

Be well, buddies. Thanks so much for sharing this information. 

 

 

[Guest [Mi...]]

[nobbc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpOtJ_C4qas]Sanitas Radio - Gwen Olson - YouTube[/nobbc]

 

Another Gwen Olson video. She really goes into what it was like as a big pharma rep. Now she's a whistleblower.

 

Sick sad world sick sad world. . . .

 

Deactivated the link - Gwen Olson is linked (somewhat) to Scientology:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=91192.msg1172000#msg1172000

 

It's sad that not only are we running into problems with getting information via the pharma industry and FDA, you also have to deal with the Scientology stuff, too.

 

Add that on top of a major decline in cognitive functioning, and this is very hard to research.

 

[[wh...]]

[nobbc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpOtJ_C4qas]Sanitas Radio - Gwen Olson - YouTube[/nobbc]

 

Another Gwen Olson video. She really goes into what it was like as a big pharma rep. Now she's a whistleblower.

 

Sick sad world sick sad world. . . .

 

Deactivated the link - Gwen Olson is linked (somewhat) to Scientology:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=91192.msg1172000#msg1172000

 

Hi Mindseeker,

 

I was surprised (and disappointed) to hear Gwen Olson is linked to Scientology. After reading your post, I Googled it and came upon this well written article.  There are many points in the article that I identify with, especially about how what really are social issues being instead treated as psychiatric conditions, as I am sure many people on this forum have learned in a most difficult way.

 

Now I'm interested in checking out Erich Fromm's writings.

 

Anyway, here is the link if you are interested. The article was also in the Huffington Post:

 

http://beyondmeds.com/2009/12/09/scientology-vs-psychiatry/

 

 

 

It's sad that not only are we running into problems with getting information via the pharma industry and FDA, you also have to deal with the Scientology stuff, too.

 

Add that on top of a major decline in cognitive functioning, and this is very hard to research.

[[La...]]

I didn't get to that one yet, but thanks for the heads up. There's lots of other good links here, so I'll get to those ones.

[Guest [Mi...]]

[nobbc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpOtJ_C4qas]Sanitas Radio - Gwen Olson - YouTube[/nobbc]

 

Another Gwen Olson video. She really goes into what it was like as a big pharma rep. Now she's a whistleblower.

 

Sick sad world sick sad world. . . .

 

Deactivated the link - Gwen Olson is linked (somewhat) to Scientology:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=91192.msg1172000#msg1172000

 

Hi Mindseeker,

 

I was surprised (and disappointed) to hear Gwen Olson is linked to Scientology. After reading your post, I Googled it and came upon this well written article.  There are many points in the article that I identify with, especially about how what really are social issues being instead treated as psychiatric conditions, as I am sure many people on this forum have learned in a most difficult way.

 

Now I'm interested in checking out Erich Fromm's writings.

 

Anyway, here is the link if you are interested. The article was also in the Huffington Post:

 

http://beyondmeds.com/2009/12/09/scientology-vs-psychiatry/

 

 

 

It's sad that not only are we running into problems with getting information via the pharma industry and FDA, you also have to deal with the Scientology stuff, too.

 

Add that on top of a major decline in cognitive functioning, and this is very hard to research.

 

Hi, who-am-i. I like the quote from Erich Fromm in that article:

 

In The Sane Society (1955), Fromm wrote:

“Yet many psychiatrists and psychologists refuse to entertain the idea that society as a whole may be lacking in sanity. They hold that the problem of mental health in a society is only that of the number of ‘unadjusted’ individuals, and not of a possible unadjustment of the culture itself.”

 

[[wh...]]

Yes, I do to. Interesting take on society and the pressures it exerts on us, which are very powerful.

 

Umm, I see I can't even do a quote correctly today, sorry. You know, the whole brain thing....

 

I'm happy to see a thread like this.

 

Keep on keepin' on,

 

Tracy

[[La...]]

That Fromm quote really ties into the controversy around the DSM and what constitutes "mental illness", doesn't it?

[Guest [Mi...]]

That Fromm quote really ties into the controversy around the DSM and what constitutes "mental illness", doesn't it?

 

Yes, it really does. And if the DSM gets any larger, they might as well put in only one diagnosis:

 

"Being human" - need to medicate. 

 

 

[[La...]]

Yes, I'm sure there's a pill for that!

 

If that quote is 60 years old, then how far have we come?

[Guest [Mi...]]

Yes, I'm sure there's a pill for that!

 

If that quote is 60 years old, then how far have we come?

 

From the CDC: "It has been estimated that by the year 2020, depression will be the second leading cause of disability throughout the world, trailing only ischemic heart disease." (Source: http://www.cdc.gov/mentalhealth/basics.htm).

 

Scary statistics.

[[La...]]

"Depression" by what definition? Omigosh. It's crazy! I doubt they can predict such things. There are SO many errors when it comes to predictions, e.g. financial, weather, etc.

[[...]]

"Depression" by what definition? Omigosh. It's crazy! I doubt they can predict such things. There are SO many errors when it comes to predictions, e.g. financial, weather, etc.

 

Exactly, its definition is written up by Big Pharma and the DSM, that's why.  It becomes a very loose definition that can apply to everyone.  The same way they keep loosening the criteria for blood pressure, cholesterol, etc.  It really is such BS, isn't it.  Surely anyone with some common sense can see through all this, it's hardly rocket science.

 

I did listen to Gwen Olsen yesterday, she's a very good speaker.  But you know, somehow for whatever reason, something doesn't sit well with me with her.  And I remembered that from the first time I came across her.  I can't quite put my finger on it.

 

I did do a quick google on her ties with Scientology.  From what I can see she merely accepted an award from them.  She denies any other link to them. 

[[La...]]

That common sense you're referring to isn't so common anymore. With all the advertising and news that we're seeing, it really is much harder to separate the wheat from the chaff. For me, it's all about having solid information upon which to base a decision. But that isn't so easy to come by, as we've all learned.

 

I don't blame people for being confused. I just see the massive amount of stuff that's thrown at us from the various sources at an alarming rate. I've mentioned my feelings of regret -- as have others here -- for having taken the medications. But we were doing what we thought was right based on the information we had at the time. Then, later on, we had other, better information. So we made different decisions at that point.

 

Ah well, with all these things, hindsight is 20/20. But prediction is, well,.......??

[Guest [Mi...]]

"Of the 170 DSM panel members 95 (56%) had one or more financial associations with companies in the pharmaceutical industry. One hundred percent of the members of the panels on 'Mood Disorders' and 'Schizophrenia and Other Psychotic Disorders' had financial ties to drug companies. The leading categories of financial interest held by panel members were research funding (42%), consultancies (22%) and speakers bureau (16%). (Source: Financial Ties between DSM-IV panel members and the pharmaceutical industry.)

 

I had posted this on another thread earlier today but wanted to add it here, too. Ties in with what we've been discussing.

 

The DSM IV was published in 1994, which would be five years after Prozac was developed. Eli Lilly was struggling financially before Prozac. And then the advertising began (in the states). . . .

[[...]]

I don't know if you saw the other thread here on a "blood test to predict suicide"! 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=113161.0

[[La...]]

REALLY? Oh no. Seriously? Geez, those DSM stats are saddening and maddening and a few other things that I can't say out loud here.

[Guest [Mi...]]

REALLY? Oh no. Seriously? Geez, those DSM stats are saddening and maddening and a few other things that I can't say out loud here.

 

Yep. Just posted them here on another similar thread:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=122116.msg1609584#msg1609584

 

Enjoy, my friends in research. 

[[...]]

Didn't know where to put this, so thought I may as well keep adding to this thread.

 

Here, Dr. Mercola interviews Dr. Martin Makary (author of the book "Unaccountable")

 

Overview

 

Dr. Marty Makary is co-developer of the life-saving checklist outlined in Atul Gawande’s bestselling The Checklist Manifesto. As a busy surgeon who has worked in many of the best hospitals in the nation, he can testify to the amazing power of modern medicine to cure. But he’s also been a witness to a medical culture that routinely leaves surgical sponges inside patients, amputates the wrong limbs, and overdoses children because of sloppy handwriting. Over the last ten years, neither error rates nor costs have come down, despite scientific progress and efforts to curb expenses. Why?

 

To patients, the healthcare system is a black box. Doctors and hospitals are unaccountable, and the lack of transparency leaves both bad doctors and systemic flaws unchecked. Patients need to know more of what healthcare workers know, so they can make informed choices. Accountability in healthcare would expose dangerous doctors, reward good performance, and force positive change nationally, using the power of the free market. Unaccountable is a powerful, no-nonsense, non-partisan diagnosis for healing our hospitals and reforming our broken healthcare system.

 

This is so worth listening to from beginning to end.  It's very honest and very revealing.  I listened to this quite some time ago, and was flabbergasted to hear that surgeons are given monthly quotas!!!  You can hear that comment within the first 5 minutes or so.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEHfq5f9cC0

[[Fl...]]

 

 

To patients, the healthcare system is a black box. Doctors and hospitals are unaccountable, and the lack of transparency leaves both bad doctors and systemic flaws unchecked. Patients need to know more of what healthcare workers know, so they can make informed choices.

 

just had to comment on this - as a person who's off benzo's now -nearly 9 months), who does not blame doctors, shrink or otherwise, I am often biting my tongue on BB. The original post about placebo pills? I loved that bit cause I know that mind over matter (or mind over any adversity) is HUGE.

I see a few posters on BB that are very into doctor bashing. When it's on their own blog, progress blog or original posts, I don't see any problem. But to have a couple continually side track a post to bashing doctors I wish the moderators would step in more often than they do (or can.)

 

So I guess the placebo affect I see the most often is when others talk in a perscriptive way on BB - "Don 't stop smoking during withdrawal, it WILL make symptoms worse."

"Don't take this drug or that on because it will cause TD, low thyroid/high thyroid."

"Do not go to the doctor as they will put you on more meds."

"Do not go to hospital because they are all the devil and will drug you and not let you out and blah blah blah blah. Cause I said so."

 

I only want to hear experiences of others on here. Not so much advice but REAL experience. Not "I read" I heard" "My sister's friend's cousin had a problem with THAT drug"

 

*sigh*

 

I also ...maybe especially don't wanna hear from "Dr. Jenn" who has decided to post in 100 billion places about her "brain injury" and have a fund me place, while she travels the western seaboard.

 

 

[[Je...]]

FlowerPxwer:  it's just that most here at BB have been misled by doctors we went to for help.  It's that simple.

 

As it is, several doctors and a surgeon or two have literally saved my life.  Literally.  So, no, I do not have a general disrespect or

hatred of doctors.  What I have is dismay over the advice of those I went to at a horrible time in my life. 

 

Once I found out that I was one of tens of thousands around the world with pretty much the same experience with regard to the

benzos and the doctor's lack of knowledge, well, I guess I have become very soured on my opinion of some docs.

 

As to placebo effect of psyche meds?  Oh yes.  Of course.  It's right there in the literature from the studies, with the success

rate "as compared to placebo."  Read it, you'll be amazed. 

 

 

[[Ch...]]

 

 

To patients, the healthcare system is a black box. Doctors and hospitals are unaccountable, and the lack of transparency leaves both bad doctors and systemic flaws unchecked. Patients need to know more of what healthcare workers know, so they can make informed choices.

 

just had to comment on this - as a person who's off benzo's now -nearly 9 months), who does not blame doctors, shrink or otherwise, I am often biting my tongue on BB. The original post about placebo pills? I loved that bit cause I know that mind over matter (or mind over any adversity) is HUGE.

I see a few posters on BB that are very into doctor bashing. When it's on their own blog, progress blog or original posts, I don't see any problem. But to have a couple continually side track a post to bashing doctors I wish the moderators would step in more often than they do (or can.)

 

So I guess the placebo affect I see the most often is when others talk in a perscriptive way on BB - "Don 't stop smoking during withdrawal, it WILL make symptoms worse."

"Don't take this drug or that on because it will cause TD, low thyroid/high thyroid."

"Do not go to the doctor as they will put you on more meds."

"Do not go to hospital because they are all the devil and will drug you and not let you out and blah blah blah blah. Cause I said so."

 

I only want to hear experiences of others on here. Not so much advice but REAL experience. Not "I read" I heard" "My sister's friend's cousin had a problem with THAT drug"

 

*sigh*

 

I also ...maybe especially don't wanna hear from "Dr. Jenn" who has decided to post in 100 billion places about her "brain injury" and have a fund me place, while she travels the western seaboard.

 

We don't see every post...we hope people will report those that may step over the anti doctor-bashing policy.  It helps us.

[[Ch...]]

I'm just going to throw this in... since this benzodiazepine debacle in my life, I research health issues and look for natural cures/aids...particularly and thoroughly researching any drug that might be prescribed.  I feel pretty negligent for taking benzos for so many years without question.  We have a duty to watch out for ourselves in life.  Google makes it damned easy to research.

 

My doctor, like most everyone's doctors, was educated by a Big Pharma funded medical school.  They believe they're following proper protocol in prescribing benzodiazepines.  Is it starting to dawn on the profession in general?  Yep.

[[Fl...]]

thank you Challis

it's really the moderators that keep me going, always have, on the ride.

I hate to hit that report button. But yeah, I see those anti doctor posts right smack dab in the middle of

a normal "conversation" here....then it goes into that.

Am I one of the only people that feel there is NO USE, to go back in time and blame others?

I just know my previous doc and my current one - they do the best they can. I'm sure I could find fault

with any of the 3 I see reg.

There's no point in that. Can't go back in time. Only have life right now.

I often see posts being made of don't go to ER, the doctors, for any reason, period.

Sorry peeps....you have a cold/flu? Can't breathe? Can't walk? Pain levels so high you are crying more than not? Husband so sick of you "not getting over it" that he's going to leave, take the kids and you're on your own?

 

I'm sorry....the posts from a few make a mega dent in the others.

 

I am drug free. It's not horrid, it's not easy. But when I come here and I see certain things....I just feel like it's a sick joke to keep others here. Here for the friendship or whatever while the other person heals.

That's NOT right.

[[...]]

 

 

To patients, the healthcare system is a black box. Doctors and hospitals are unaccountable, and the lack of transparency leaves both bad doctors and systemic flaws unchecked. Patients need to know more of what healthcare workers know, so they can make informed choices.

 

just had to comment on this - as a person who's off benzo's now -nearly 9 months), who does not blame doctors, shrink or otherwise, I am often biting my tongue on BB. The original post about placebo pills? I loved that bit cause I know that mind over matter (or mind over any adversity) is HUGE.

I see a few posters on BB that are very into doctor bashing. When it's on their own blog, progress blog or original posts, I don't see any problem. But to have a couple continually side track a post to bashing doctors I wish the moderators would step in more often than they do (or can.)

 

So I guess the placebo affect I see the most often is when others talk in a perscriptive way on BB - "Don 't stop smoking during withdrawal, it WILL make symptoms worse."

"Don't take this drug or that on because it will cause TD, low thyroid/high thyroid."

"Do not go to the doctor as they will put you on more meds."

"Do not go to hospital because they are all the devil and will drug you and not let you out and blah blah blah blah. Cause I said so."

 

I only want to hear experiences of others on here. Not so much advice but REAL experience. Not "I read" I heard" "My sister's friend's cousin had a problem with THAT drug"

 

*sigh*

 

I also ...maybe especially don't wanna hear from "Dr. Jenn" who has decided to post in 100 billion places about her "brain injury" and have a fund me place, while she travels the western seaboard.

 

I hate to hit that report button. But yeah, I see those anti doctor posts right smack dab in the middle of

a normal "conversation" here....then it goes into that.

 

 

Flower, I'm a little confused and trying not to take this personally.  Maybe you can help me understand you better.

 

You're saying you loved the initial post because you agreed with its content.  Then it seems to me you're implying that I (and/or others here) am continually sidetracking this thread (and perhaps other threads too?) to bashing doctors?  Am I reading that correctly?  Because, quite honestly, I'm struggling to make head or tail of your post and how/why it fits in this thread at all?

 

I don't think I, nor any one of us here, have posted anything close to personal doctor bashing.  As far as I'm aware, we've all been having a very healthy and respectful conversation, sharing links to articles and/or videos which disclose not only some hardcore facts, but also various opinions of some very respected healthcare "authorities".  Doctors and other insiders, if you will.

 

To patients, the healthcare system is a black box. Doctors and hospitals are unaccountable, and the lack of transparency leaves both bad doctors and systemic flaws unchecked. Patients need to know more of what healthcare workers know, so they can make informed choices.

 

You extracted this phrase.  I'm not sure why this one in particular?  Perhaps this is the "doctor bashing" you're referring to?  FYI, Marty Makary, MD, is the author of the book, "Unaccountable".  That excerpt can be found wherever his books are sold (e.g. Amazon, Barnes & Noble).  I simply copied and pasted it.  Following, FYI, is an excerpt from his own website ...

 

"Dr. Makary is a surgeon and researcher at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. He is the author of Unaccountable by Bloomsbury Press and a national advocate for transparency in health care".

 

His website has a video trailer of his book which you may or may not find interesting.  It features many prominent doctors and individuals, including the Deputy Attorney General.  I'm posting the link to his website; if it's considered commercial, I'm sure the mods will deactivate the link.  http://unaccountablebook.com/

 

I'm sorry something got you so fired up, but as you can tell, I'm having trouble understanding it as it relates to this thread.  And, for what it's worth, I have no idea who this "Dr. Jenn" is, I've never even heard of her.

 

PS:  Perhaps you might wish to start up an entirely new thread on your grievance, and everyone can have their say and hopefully there'll be some healthy debate.  Again, I do not understand how it fits in here.  Just sayin' ...