60 Minutes excerpt about antidepressants: "Is There A Placebo Effect?"

[[...]]

You think?  I think not. 

 

Steve Paikin on The Agenda has covered this quite a bit too.  Here's a couple of them, there's others too if you look for them, they're actually very good.

 

 

[[wh...]]

Oh, I just got goosebumps reading your story about your mom. Yay for Mom! Great story, and yes, there's such wisdom there. The body is an amazing thing, and once we take these meds, we alter the neurotransmitters. I have such regret now.

 

I have regret too. But we are on a good path now. Let's keep on keepin' on.!

 

(PS. I had the same thought about Allen Frances. He has the courage because he is now retired, and can do the speaking circuit as he is no longer beholden to big Pharma. He's made his money helping big Pharma, and now exposing big Pharma, but at least someone is giving it voice, right?)

 

Have the best day you can,

 

Tracy

[[wh...]]

PS. My mom has made a believer of me, as far as folk remedies and ancient wisdom regarding the body, health, and healing.

[[La...]]

Thanks for the links and good wishes, Guys (Well, Gals, actually!). It's nice to see that Steve Paikin's program has is getting out there. I think I've seen the one on antidepressants but I'll have a look at the others. Seems that we're talking about issues that ARE out there, but just not as widely as we'd like, and not as fast.

[Guest [Mi...]]

Thanks for posting, everyone. Lots of valuable information available now that wasn't when I started on these drugs in 1985.

 

I've read Irwin Kirch's book "The Emperor's New Drugs". This is the book that Kirch's was talking about in the video posted by the OP.

 

Today I was reading some online writings on various websites about drug companies repackaging AD's to use for PMS and menopause.

 

Here are two:

 

Brisdelle has been marketed to treat hot flashes in menopause. It's Paxil.

 

Sarafem has been marketed to treat PMS and PMDD. It's Prozac.

 

Now I'm wondering what the placebo effect is for this type of use. But more importantly, I wonder about the danger.

 

SSRI's make me suicidal. Yet even with my history of psychotic depression after being on Prozac in 1989, when my Welbutrin stopped working last year, my pdoc put me on Vibrydd with full knowledge of my prior history. I was too sick to do my own research so I took the drug. Right back into a state of psychosis and unemployment. It took me a year to get another job at less than half the salary. I went to 3 different pdoc's during that time and not one single doctor mentioned the possibility of my symptoms being treatment induced.

 

I'm 46 so in a few years, I'm sure I'll see a doctor whenever I hit menopause. But if "trained" and "skilled" psychiatrists don't understand this, are gynecologists? Capitalism and patented medicine seem incompatible with the "do no harm" mantra.

 

Brisdelle TV Commercial - YouTube.  This is what your doctor may believe. Nowhere in this commercial does it say this is a low dose of Paxil, nor give any warnings about the "medication discontinuation syndrome" that GlaxoSmithKline (the pharmaceutical company) failed to disclose (Paxil Withdrawal Case Settled in California - Peter Breggin.)

 

All I can say is modern medicine has not made my life any better. Far from it. And for women, it seems especially problematic since the SSRI's are now being repackaged in this manner. Very, very disturbing.

 

 

[[...]]

And don't forget Zyban for smoking cessation.  It's Wellbutrin. 

 

They have so many tricks to extend their patents.  It is simply appalling what is going on.  And the only way to pull in the reins is to hold Big Pharma individuals accountable.  They need to be personally fined and do jail time for their white collar crimes.  Blatant organized crime at its finest!

 

Listen to this woman, she's GOOD. 

 

During her two decades at The New England Journal of Medicine, Dr. Marcia Angell had a front-row seat on the appalling spectacle of the pharmaceutical industry. She watched drug companies stray from their original mission of discovering and manufacturing useful drugs and instead become vast marketing machines with unprecedented control over their own fortunes. She saw them gain nearly limitless influence over medical research, education, and how doctors do their jobs. She sympathized as the American public, particularly the elderly, struggled and increasingly failed to meet spiraling prescription drug prices. Now, in this bold, hard-hitting new book, Dr. Angell exposes the shocking truth of what the pharmaceutical industry has become–and argues for essential, long-overdue change.

 

 

Here's her full audio book, I listened to the whole thing, about 7 hrs of it, a while ago.  I thought I knew everything already, but some of the revelations still blew me away.  (This audio won't be on Youtube for long, because of copywrite).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1mGhAF0US8

[[La...]]

The ethical issue is huge. I'm sure we all -- all of us on these boards -- have something to say on these issues. I see that the US medical system works in a way that encourages certain things. It's different elsewhere where medical systems run on a different model, but the US influence is huge (eg. FDA, large drug companies).

[Guest [Mi...]]

And don't forget Zyban for smoking cessation.  It's Wellbutrin. 

 

They have so many tricks to extend their patents.  It is simply appalling what is going on.  And the only way to pull in the reins is to hold Big Pharma individuals accountable.  They need to be personally fined and do jail time for their white collar crimes.  Blatant organized crime at its finest!

 

Listen to this woman, she's GOOD. 

 

During her two decades at The New England Journal of Medicine, Dr. Marcia Angell had a front-row seat on the appalling spectacle of the pharmaceutical industry. She watched drug companies stray from their original mission of discovering and manufacturing useful drugs and instead become vast marketing machines with unprecedented control over their own fortunes. She saw them gain nearly limitless influence over medical research, education, and how doctors do their jobs. She sympathized as the American public, particularly the elderly, struggled and increasingly failed to meet spiraling prescription drug prices. Now, in this bold, hard-hitting new book, Dr. Angell exposes the shocking truth of what the pharmaceutical industry has become–and argues for essential, long-overdue change.

 

 

Here's her full audio book, I listened to the whole thing, about 7 hrs of it, a while ago.  I thought I knew everything already, but some of the revelations still blew me away.  (This audio won't be on Youtube for long, because of copywrite).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1mGhAF0US8

 

Most excellent, abcd! Thanks for the links.

 

Here's a link to a documentary narrated by my favorite journalist, Amy Goodman. Dr. Marcia Angell is in it:

 

Big Bucks, Big Pharma: Marketing Disease & Pushing Drugs

[[La...]]

You know, it seems like many people are saying the same thing OUT LOUD! And isn't that how change comes about? I'm so heartened to see intelligent, thinking people in positions of respect and influence who are speaking the truth -- the truth as we've experienced it personally.

 

Can we be a bit hopeful? Man, I hope so.

 

 

[Guest [Mi...]]

You know, it seems like many people are saying the same thing OUT LOUD! And isn't that how change comes about? I'm so heartened to see intelligent, thinking people in positions of respect and influence who are speaking the truth -- the truth as we've experienced it personally.

 

Can we be a bit hopeful? Man, I hope so.

 

Yep, it's good to see people within the profession speaking out. Hopefully more will speak out.

 

But it looks like any change may have to come from consumers. Basically, we need to have full disclosure, including information on the withdrawal.

 

It's unfortunate that we're having to use the internet to come off these drugs as opposed to getting the appropriate information from our doctors. But the fact that we're here sharing this information gives me hope that there will be a ground-up, consumer-led movement and change will happen. 

 

 

[[La...]]

Yes, darn right! Information and knowledge is the way forward. Patients shouldn't have to study medicine in order to get appropriate treatment, but I'm SO glad that we can access the info we need in such an open way now. Just imagine what was happening before BB and the current wave of info we're sharing here! Benzos have been around since the 1960s, and the people who took them at that time didn't have a chance. At least we do.

 

I'm looking for reasons to be hopeful and positive through my tears here. I'm dizzy, I"m in intense pain, I had a horrible night, etc., etc., and it all could have been prevented. I can't forget that. I don't want this to happen to anyone else. It just makes me heartsick to think of how many others are out there.

[[co...]]

I feel as if I've been effectively neutered by this (PAWS)...Marcia Angell was the one who alerted me to the fact that is was the drugs that were making me crazy; she wrote a review in the New York Review of Books of Robert Whitaker's 'Anatomy of an Epidemic' and it changed my life...

 

I wish there was some way that my family could be clued in-but they don't want to know. 

 

I can't see myself helping the cause anytime soon.  I'm too compromised.

[[La...]]

I think it's enough that we're helping each other for now. If anyone feels that they want to help "the cause" at some point in time, then that's great. I'm laying low, talking to you guys, talking to those who are close to me and who care. I can't wait to be free, and at that point, I'll think about what to do, if anything. For now, the focus is on healing, sharing, learning, which is what BB is about for me.

[[...]]

 

Most excellent, abcd! Thanks for the links.

 

Here's a link to a documentary narrated by my favorite journalist, Amy Goodman. Dr. Marcia Angell is in it:

 

Big Bucks, Big Pharma: Marketing Disease & Pushing Drugs

 

Just listened to this.  Excellent!  I wish it were shown on mainstream TV.

This is all going to blow up eventually, probably not for another decade or more though.  Never before have people started speaking up like this.

 

Is everyone familiar with David Healy?  He's been speaking out against ADs for a very long time.  He was offered a job at Toronto's Centre for Addiction and Mental Health and all set to start his appointment.  It was then suddenly withdrawn after he gave a speech and published a paper claiming that the SSRIs caused increased risk of suicide.  I believe he sued, if I remember correctly.

 

 

He's got a website where you can report drug sxs.  https://www.rxisk.org

 

PS - When I was struggling with my AD w/d, I mentioned him and his work to my Doc.  Her comment was he was known to be "Coocoo"! 

[Guest [Mi...]]

 

Most excellent, abcd! Thanks for the links.

 

Here's a link to a documentary narrated by my favorite journalist, Amy Goodman. Dr. Marcia Angell is in it:

 

Big Bucks, Big Pharma: Marketing Disease & Pushing Drugs

 

Just listened to this.  Excellent!  I wish it were shown on mainstream TV.

This is all going to blow up eventually, probably not for another decade or more though.  Never before have people started speaking up like this.

 

Is everyone familiar with David Healy?  He's been speaking out against ADs for a very long time.  He was offered a job at Toronto's Centre for Addiction and Mental Health and all set to start his appointment.  It was then suddenly withdrawn after he gave a speech and published a paper claiming that the SSRIs caused increased risk of suicide.  I believe he sued, if I remember correctly.

 

 

He's got a website where you can report drug sxs.  https://www.rxisk.org

 

PS - When I was struggling with my AD w/d, I mentioned him and his work to my Doc.  Her comment was he was known to be "Coocoo"! 

 

Yep, Healy refers to himself as a "heretic."  I'm reading Dr. Healy's "Pharmaggedon." It's not just psychiatric drugs - a lot of drugs are causing harm.

 

Here's another good video with Dr. Healy:

 

.

 

The last five minutes is a discussion on the future of psychiatry and Healy blames a lot of this on the marketing departments of big pharma. The other people don't really agree, as if they're having to be extremely careful about what they say perhaps?

 

On a side note, abcd if you're interested in some behind-the-scenes info from Healy's rescinded job offer in Toronto, here's a series of emails that went back and forth between Healy and Goldbloom at the University of Toronto.

 

Yeah, I've had a lot of time on my hands from the insomnia. 

 

http://www.pharmapolitics.com/davidgoldbloom.html

 

http://www.pharmapolitics.com/davidgoldbloom.html

 

http://www.pharmapolitics.com/emails.html

 

I really think if Healy hadn't spoken out about Prozac, he'd be working in Canada now, making a ton more money. I'm sooo glad doctors like him and Dr. Ashton are around. Without them, where would we be?

[[wh...]]

 

Most excellent, abcd! Thanks for the links.

 

Here's a link to a documentary narrated by my favorite journalist, Amy Goodman. Dr. Marcia Angell is in it:

 

Big Bucks, Big Pharma: Marketing Disease & Pushing Drugs

 

Just listened to this.  Excellent!  I wish it were shown on mainstream TV.

This is all going to blow up eventually, probably not for another decade or more though.  Never before have people started speaking up like this.

 

Is everyone familiar with David Healy?  He's been speaking out against ADs for a very long time.  He was offered a job at Toronto's Centre for Addiction and Mental Health and all set to start his appointment.  It was then suddenly withdrawn after he gave a speech and published a paper claiming that the SSRIs caused increased risk of suicide.  I believe he sued, if I remember correctly.

 

 

He's got a website where you can report drug sxs.  https://www.rxisk.org

 

PS - When I was struggling with my AD w/d, I mentioned him and his work to my Doc.  Her comment was he was known to be "Coocoo"! 

 

Yep, Healy refers to himself as a "heretic."  I'm reading Dr. Healy's "Pharmaggedon." It's not just psychiatric drugs - a lot of drugs are causing harm.

 

Here's another good video with Dr. Healy:

 

.

 

The last five minutes is a discussion on the future of psychiatry and Healy blames a lot of this on the marketing departments of big pharma. The other people don't really agree, as if they're having to be extremely careful about what they say perhaps?

 

On a side note, abcd if you're interested in some behind-the-scenes info from Healy's rescinded job offer in Toronto, here's a series of emails that went back and forth between Healy and Goldbloom at the University of Toronto.

 

Yeah, I've had a lot of time on my hands from the insomnia. 

 

http://www.pharmapolitics.com/davidgoldbloom.html

 

http://www.pharmapolitics.com/davidgoldbloom.html

 

http://www.pharmapolitics.com/emails.html

 

I really think if Healy hadn't spoken out about Prozac, he'd be working in Canada now, making a ton more money. I'm sooo glad doctors like him and Dr. Ashton are around. Without them, where would we be?

 

Wow, that was interesting. You have to give Healy credit for having the courage to speak up. Look what it cost him.

 

 

[[La...]]

Hey abcd, I'm listening to/watching one of the videos with Steve Paikin called "Disturbed Minds or Manuals". Allen J. Frances is on the panel, plus three other Toronto-based experts. Good stuff! I'm going to try to get to some of the other links that everyone has posted as well. There has been so much information shared on this post, so thanks, Everyone! Clearly, everyone's cognitive abilities are functioning at high levels as evidenced by what's been shared here in the last couple of days. :-)

[[...]]

Yes, some really great stuff here. 

 

Thanks for the Healy stuff, Mind.  You know, I actually read all that in great detail (over 10 yrs ago) when I first discovered the mess I'd gotten myself into with the AD, and had nowhere to turn to.  That's what really opened up my eyes to the horrors of Big Pharma and all the corruption in the healthcare world.  Problem is, I've always had a memory like a sieve and forget the details very quickly.  I've always envied people with sponge memories, I'd be a walking encyclopaedia if that were me!  Oh well ...

 

I'm going to get to that other video shortly.

 

Yes, who-am, Healy's one stand-up dude!

 

Clearly, everyone's cognitive abilities are functioning at high levels as evidenced by what's been shared here in the last couple of days. :-)

 

 

Well, I have to say, I am SO impressed by most BBs, the knowledge, education and intellect I see here still blows me away ... and it's the reason I joined this site in the first place.  It obviously attracts a different type of person than most forums!

 

Mind and Lap, I have to say, both of you, your writing skills are quite phenomenal!  I wouldn't be surprised to hear you were both journalists or English professors!    Lovin' it!

 

I have other stuff to share too, will be back in a bit!

[Guest [Mi...]]

Yes, some really great stuff here. 

 

Thanks for the Healy stuff, Mind.  You know, I actually read all that in great detail (over 10 yrs ago) when I first discovered the mess I'd gotten myself into with the AD, and had nowhere to turn to.  That's what really opened up my eyes to the horrors of Big Pharma and all the corruption in the healthcare world.  Problem is, I've always had a memory like a sieve and forget the details very quickly.  I've always envied people with sponge memories, I'd be a walking encyclopaedia if that were me!  Oh well ...

 

I'm going to get to that other video shortly.

 

Yes, who-am, Healy's one stand-up dude!

 

Clearly, everyone's cognitive abilities are functioning at high levels as evidenced by what's been shared here in the last couple of days. :-)

 

 

Well, I have to say, I am SO impressed by most BBs, the knowledge, education and intellect I see here still blows me away ... and it's the reason I joined this site in the first place.  It obviously attracts a different type of person than most forums!

 

Mind and Lap, I have to say, both of you, your writing skills are quite phenomenal!  I wouldn't be surprised to hear you were both journalists or English professors!    Lovin' it!

 

I have other stuff to share too, will be back in a bit!

 

Ha! Yes, I had to giggle. Guilty as charged with the English degree. I paired it with a degree in accounting because my brain is very bipolar. 

 

I've had memory problems off and on for 30 years, abcd. Brought it to every single pdoc's attention and was ALWAYS told it was NOT the meds. If they did happen to say it's a side effect (since the internet, I was able to at least find that much out), I was then told that bipolar is a very serious condition and if a few memory problems are my only worry, then I need to just shut up, take my medication, and be glad I'm functional enough to work.

 

It wasn't until my memory got so bad I was getting lost in my own neighborhood that I knew these pdoc's were very, very ignorant.

 

I will say this - my memory is getting sooooo much better now.

 

If I had stayed on these meds, I would have decompensated at 46. Not acceptable at all.

 

abcd and Lapis2, you both research and write like English professors, too.  You are both on top of all of this. Thanks so much for sharing!

 

I'm going to go listen to "Disturbed Minds Or Manuals" now. 

[[La...]]

Hey, thanks! Communications was/is (?) my field (hope to get back to it), but I studied psychology, if you can believe it! Anyway, I love the fact that we're having stimulating, intelligent discussions about these serious issues. My head is full of the facts, but my heart is full of the warmth that comes with knowing that all of us are going through this hellish experience in different together. I'd love to meet all of you! Great people -- here, there and everywhere!

 

Over the next few days, I'll be watching more of the videos that you've all shared on here. So, thank you again for sharing.

[[La...]]

TYPO! Darn it! After all your nice compliments, I messed up the last line of the paragraph.

 

What I meant was, we're going through this hell in different places -- together. This life-saving, life-affirming, WorldWideWeb is an extraordinary source of connection and information-sharing that it's sustaining us all. I'm so grateful.

[[...]]

TYPO! Darn it! After all your nice compliments, I messed up the last line of the paragraph.

 

 

 

 

Ha! Yes, I had to giggle. Guilty as charged with the English degree. I paired it with a degree in accounting because my brain is very bipolar. 

 

 

  Knew it!

 

I've just listened to Big Bucks, Big Pharma: Marketing Disease & Pushing Drugs.  Really good, I agreed with so much of what they all had to say.  e.g. They see the diagnosis as the cause ... You're hearing voices because you have schizophrenia. 

 

Okay, here's another one I listened to a while ago that I found very interesting.  He's got a very monotonous voice but ... 

 

Reading and Doing Medical Research - By an editor of a medical journal.

A video presentation that examines troubling issues within the medical journal peer-review process, and proposes new procedures for quality control.

 

[Guest [Mi...]]

Thanks, abcd and Lapis.

 

I'm listening to the one on "Reading and Doing Medical Research." This is some scary stuff.

 

Here's a good one:

 

.

 

 

 

[[La...]]

Hi All,

I've just finished watching The Antidepressant Era featuring Dr. David Healy, so thanks to everyone who recommended that. Excellent! Enligtening and enraging at the same time. Near the end, Dr. Joseph Glenmullen was featured, and I was thrilled to see him in this film. Back in August, I read his book "The Antidepressant Solution", an excellent guide to coming off these meds. I only wish I'd known about it BEFORE doing my Prozac taper. Nevertheless, the information contained in the book was validating, as it suggested that dizziness is the number one withdrawal symptom of SSRIs.

 

Yes, I know. :-(

 

So, if you have dizziness from benzo withdrawal and dizziness from SSRI withdrawal, what happens? You get a very, very, very dizzy Lapis2.

 

 

[[...]]

4:30 am!  Slept for an hour from 1:00-2:00 am!  Sheesh.  Going to listen to The Antidepressant Era now ... with a bit of luck it'll put me to sleep.  (Meant in the nicest possible way).