SSRI support group - tapering while on benzo's or after recovery

[[si...]]

Kiddo-

 

I have developed some tolerance to the klonopin.

 

When I started the lexapro, it gave me a lot of anxiety.  I still don't know if I ever got used to it.

 

I've been on the lexapro just a little bit longer.  It's only been about 5 months since this mess started. 

 

I read the information Mindseeker created.  I just don't know what to do. 

[[Ki...]]

It's a terrible situation to be in Sierra, I'm sorry. I can't advise you on which drug to taper first, but I would suggest that either route you take you go slowly.

 

I wish I could be more help. For me it was a clear cut decision. If your Lexapro is causing anxiety I might lean towards starting that one first.

 

Can you give any other information? How do you feel after dosing each individual med? Do you feel revved up?

 

Hopefully Mindseeker will jump in here....she is much more knowledgable than I am and was poly drugged so she sure knows her stuff.

[[Sm...]]

Hi Sierra

 

Yes I also hate being stuck between benzos and an AD. It is horrible.

If lexapro gave you anxiety I'd agree with Kid here and recommend tapering that one first. Lainey is right to point out that the ssri is more activating. I know when I came off benzos my AD caused me more problems because there were no more benzo brakes (or even a normal level of brakes thanks to my brain unhelpfully upregulating/downregulating in response to the benzo).

With those two considerations in mind I'd probably taper the lexapro first.

 

Good luck Sierra

[Guest [Mi...]]

It's a terrible situation to be in Sierra, I'm sorry. I can't advise you on which drug to taper first, but I would suggest that either route you take you go slowly.

 

I wish I could be more help. For me it was a clear cut decision. If your Lexapro is causing anxiety I might lean towards starting that one first.

 

Can you give any other information? How do you feel after dosing each individual med? Do you feel revved up?

 

Hopefully Mindseeker will jump in here....she is much more knowledgable than I am and was poly drugged so she sure knows her stuff.

 

Hey, Kiddo and Sierra.

 

Like Smiff and Lainey recommended, I would opt for the Lexapro first.

 

Also, I wanted to point out an interaction. I just posted this over on Sierra's Other Medication thread. Sierra, you probably haven't had a chance to read over this, so I'll post it here, too - http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,703-357,1013-565.

 

Because the most severe interaction is between the Trazodone and the Lexapro, I would recommend tapering the Lexapro first simply to minimize this interaction risk.

 

However, there are no rules set in stone, so if you do decide on the Klonopin first, please start out very slowly because by removing the brake as lainey put it, the accelerator (i.e. the Lexapro) may create a surge of anxiety and insomnia.

 

When coming off of multiple meds even one medication at a time, it's hard to know if reducing one medication is what's causing your symptoms or if it's the fact that more of the side effects of the drug(s) you're holding steady are being unmasked.

 

So even though you've only been on these meds for 5 months, by going slowly and mindfully, you're less likely to cause such a disruption to your CNS (Central Nervous System) that you need to hold or worse, have to updose and drag this out even longer.

 

[[si...]]

Hey Everyone-

 

I can't really tell if I get revved up after taking the lexapro.  I have the trazodone still in my system when I take, so I think that adds to the sedation.

 

I do know when I went off the K the first time, I had withdrawal for sure.  I take my lexapro in the morning.  It seemed like I would get more revved up in the afternoon, perhaps after the trazodone wore off more.    I was doing ok.  I was actually starting to get a window or two where I was calming down.  I know...  nobody can tell me what to do.  I have to make my own decision and go with it. 

 

I read about the interaction between trazodone and lexapro.  Thanks for the information.

 

My fear is that I'm already in tolerance with K and I'll need to take more as time goes on with the lex taper. 

 

No matter what there isn't going to be an easy way about this.

 

Thanks

[[la...]]

Laineyk-  I see you did a 4 week taper from zoloft.  How did that go since you still had the brakes?

 

 

It was to fast and I have suffered for that but whats done is done and I refuse to go back and start all over with that

 

I have a loooooong journey now with the benzo

 

trying to figure if I should c/o to diazepam (AGAIN) to taper or try to keep tapering from the lorazepam

 

really hard to do with I/D/W though

[[Sm...]]

Hey Everyone-

 

I can't really tell if I get revved up after taking the lexapro.  I have the trazodone still in my system when I take, so I think that adds to the sedation.

 

I do know when I went off the K the first time, I had withdrawal for sure.  I take my lexapro in the morning.  It seemed like I would get more revved up in the afternoon, perhaps after the trazodone wore off more.    I was doing ok.  I was actually starting to get a window or two where I was calming down.  I know...  nobody can tell me what to do.  I have to make my own decision and go with it. 

 

I read about the interaction between trazodone and lexapro.  Thanks for the information.

 

My fear is that I'm already in tolerance with K and I'll need to take more as time goes on with the lex taper. 

 

No matter what there isn't going to be an easy way about this.

 

Thanks

 

Hi again Sierra

 

The risk of serotonin syndrome is higher once you start withdrawing from benzos. I have experienced it and many others do when they try to use a SSRI after already being in withdrawal. Consider that when you think on the traz plus lex whilst taking away the K.

 

I'd say it is unlikely you are in tolerance withdrawal in a very problematic way after six months use. You may increase use a bit during the lex taper but I wouldn't think it would add more time overall to your recovery then a serotonin syndrome complication.

 

Serotonin syndrome is really truly horrible and it becomes very hard to do much about it, that isn't gonna hurt a lot, once you are in benzo withdrawal.

 

You could try a bubble taper? Where you taper a bit of one and then a bit of the other? Proabably leaving the traz taper till once you're off the other two.

 

[Guest [Mi...]]

Hey Everyone-

 

I can't really tell if I get revved up after taking the lexapro.  I have the trazodone still in my system when I take, so I think that adds to the sedation.

 

I do know when I went off the K the first time, I had withdrawal for sure.  I take my lexapro in the morning.  It seemed like I would get more revved up in the afternoon, perhaps after the trazodone wore off more.    I was doing ok.  I was actually starting to get a window or two where I was calming down.  I know...  nobody can tell me what to do.  I have to make my own decision and go with it. 

 

I read about the interaction between trazodone and lexapro.  Thanks for the information.

 

My fear is that I'm already in tolerance with K and I'll need to take more as time goes on with the lex taper. 

 

No matter what there isn't going to be an easy way about this.

 

Thanks

 

Hi again Sierra

 

The risk of serotonin syndrome is higher once you start withdrawing from benzos. I have experienced it and many others do when they try to use a SSRI after already being in withdrawal. Consider that when you think on the traz plus lex whilst taking away the K.

 

I'd say it is unlikely you are in tolerance withdrawal in a very problematic way after six months use. You may increase use a bit during the lex taper but I wouldn't think it would add more time overall to your recovery then a serotonin syndrome complication.

 

Serotonin syndrome is really truly horrible and it becomes very hard to do much about it, that isn't gonna hurt a lot, once you are in benzo withdrawal.

 

You could try a bubble taper? Where you taper a bit of one and then a bit of the other? Proabably leaving the traz taper till once you're off the other two.

 

This is good advice. I've also heard the "bubble taper" called a "round robin" over on Surviving Antidepressants, but I think it's the same thing and some people on that AD forum have really good results doing it this way.

 

And if the Traz helps you sleep, Sierra, like Smiff said, that's the one drug I'd hold steady until you're off the other two.

 

Perhaps drop 5 - 10% of the Lexapro, wait 3 - 4 weeks and see how you feel. At that point, you may want to go down a bit on the benzo. However, if cutting down on the Lexapro is actually helping reduce anxiety or any of your other symptoms, you may wish to continue tapering the Lexapro.

 

But see how you feel at that point in time.

 

 

[[si...]]

I may take that approach.  How long does it usually take for one to feel the effects of a ssri cut?

[[Sm...]]

Sounds good Sierra 

Since benzo wd I feel a cut from an SSRI immediately. My understanding is though that often there is a fairly immediate hit and then a second hit, where you truly see where you are at post cut, about a month after the cut. Given your short termish usage I'd go with Mindseeker and try a 10% cut with a 3 week wait, watch and see.

 

 

 

A bit over a week in and I've seemed to have turned a corner on my 10% SSRI cut

Such a relief cause those horrible cortisol and adrenaline mornings were yucky.

 

In other good news, I'm sleeping better and I'm not getting the anxiety after taking the SSRI since the cut too. Oh and I feel more like myself, oh and I can love my daughter more consistently. All in all it was worth doing. I'll wait now for another 3 weeks and see how I continue to respond. After that I'll probably try 2.5% a week for 4 weeks with a 2 week hold.

[Guest [Mi...]]

Sounds good Sierra 

Since benzo wd I feel a cut from an SSRI immediately. My understanding is though that often there is a fairly immediate hit and then a second hit, where you truly see where you are at post cut, about a month after the cut. Given your short termish usage I'd go with Mindseeker and try a 10% cut with a 3 week wait, watch and see.

 

 

 

A bit over a week in and I've seemed to have turned a corner on my 10% SSRI cut

Such a relief cause those horrible cortisol and adrenaline mornings were yucky.

 

In other good news, I'm sleeping better and I'm not getting the anxiety after taking the SSRI since the cut too. Oh and I feel more like myself, oh and I can love my daughter more consistently. All in all it was worth doing. I'll wait now for another 3 weeks and see how I continue to respond. After that I'll probably try 2.5% a week for 4 weeks with a 2 week hold.

 

Wow, Smiff, this is awesome news! So glad you're feeling better. 

[[Sm...]]

another 2.5% gone. Felt it but nothing I can't handle. Mostly I like it post cut cause I sleep better and feel more in touch with my emotions (some 'emotions' less than fun ie. panic in the mornings). I started feeling the ramped up/I can't sleep deeply feeling hence I tried the 2.5%.

So happy when all the horrible mind altering drugs are behind me

[[la...]]

tomorrow I will have been off the Zoloft 6 months and I have to say I am NO BETTER at all.

 

Scared to taper from lorazepam...scared not to taper....scared to c/o to diazepam...scared not to c/o to diazepam

 

I know I should just sit on my hands and not make any changes but I feel that the lorazepam is KILLING me...of course what do I know. It could be the w/d from Zoloft still?

 

 

just needed to vent

[[Ki...]]

I'm sorry to hear that Lainey. I can empathize with you as I'm feeling a little trapped myself....my SSRI taper is loomin ahead and I just don't want to deal with another w/d. I have no suggestions for you because I don't know if your sx are from Ativan or Zoloft.

 

Do you have some reprieve in sx after you dose your Ativan?

[[Sm...]]

I can empathise too Lainey.

 

I felt great from first cut from SSRI but the following ones are proving tricky. It is altogether horribubble being stuck between drug withdrawal and taking a drug that is making our life a misery. Lame 

 

Did the neurologist have anything to add on the dizzies? Do they believe it may be zoloft wd?

 

[[la...]]

neurologist said he doesn't know for sure anything. MRI was clear and I am having EEG done next week.

he said it could be one of these 4;

 

1. Migraine associated vertigo

 

2. seizures

 

3. withdrawal from Zoloft

 

4. anxiety

 

# 1 & 2 are the most likely

 

I am really bad all morning and then after taking 2nd dose I get weird and spacey feeling along with the anxiety.

 

I just can't catch a break lately and for whatever reason it seems to be getting worse.

 

should I updose?  Go to diazepam???  UGH

[[Sm...]]

neurologist said he doesn't know for sure anything. MRI was clear and I am having EEG done next week.

he said it could be one of these 4;

 

1. Migraine associated vertigo

 

2. seizures

 

3. withdrawal from Zoloft

 

4. anxiety

 

# 1 & 2 are the most likely

 

I am really bad all morning and then after taking 2nd dose I get weird and spacey feeling along with the anxiety.

 

I just can't catch a break lately and for whatever reason it seems to be getting worse.

 

should I updose?  Go to diazepam???  UGH

 

Mornings suck.. I hear ya. I hate mornings withdrawing from the SSRI worse then I did withdrawing from benzos which is hard to believe. I reckon a lot of your issues will turn out to be from the fast withdrawal of zoloft (plus taking benzos after being in tolerance and trying to withdraw). Your CNS is destabilised sadly.

I hate destabilised CNS. I long for the day when I'm not so sensitive.

 

I'm not sure what you should do really :/

 

Try diazepam if you think it will help. If you have ID maybe try it. But you didn't like it before so I dunno.

I guess if it were me I'd try a teeny tiny dose of a long acting SSRI and maybe swap to diaz. But yea.. that is me and I'm not at all sure what would be best for you

[Guest [Mi...]]

neurologist said he doesn't know for sure anything. MRI was clear and I am having EEG done next week.

he said it could be one of these 4;

 

1. Migraine associated vertigo

 

2. seizures

 

3. withdrawal from Zoloft

 

4. anxiety

 

# 1 & 2 are the most likely

 

I am really bad all morning and then after taking 2nd dose I get weird and spacey feeling along with the anxiety.

 

I just can't catch a break lately and for whatever reason it seems to be getting worse.

 

should I updose?  Go to diazepam???  UGH

 

I'm going to chime in here, lainey. Since your second benzo dose is making you worse, I'm wondering if it may be the SSRI withdrawal, although as smiff mentions, you're dealing with a combination of things all leading to a very destabilized CNS.

 

I see on the Valium/Diazepam Support Group you're already looking into doing another crossover to V. Please read over your posts from your prior V crossover because you had a rather difficult time before. This is a post you made prior to ending your V taper and going back to Lorazepam: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=101884.msg1719201#msg1719201

 

And here you referred to V as "poison" - http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=101884.msg1730286#msg1730286

 

Make sure that crossing back over to Valium is what you really want to do. I'm not sure that a crossover is going to help you at this point due to your own history. You were getting really good advice towards the end of your V taper, but you didn't take the advice, so please listen to what Diaz-Pam is saying in her post today - http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=96753.msg1949399#msg1949399. 

 

She's spot on because this was an issue when you were on V before and your response was that you didn't want to try a liquid taper as you said in your post back in March - http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97834.msg1719379#msg1719379

 

I know you've been struggling trying to come off these drugs for a number of years, but I don't think that switching your benzo again is going to work any more than it worked before UNLESS you are going to be able to get below that 4 mg V mark where you got stuck before.

 

I've seen so many members get off track when they get down to that low dose. If you do decide to do the c/o to Valium, please consider a liquid titration and work closely with Diaz-Pam and other members that have walked that very path. They can guide you out of this. At some point, I hope you begin to trust the advice you're getting here.

 

 

[[do...]]

Hello everyone!  Sorry this intro post to this forum may be a bit long but I have a long of experience tapering AD's so maybe this info. will help someone.  First let me begin with a brief history....suffered anxiety/panic attacks since I was 6 years old....I am 46 now.  They got much worse after I delivered my first child but did not go on meds. until after the birth of my second child in 1995.  I was first put on luvox, Xanax, and trazadone.  The Xanax was only for a couple of months.  I then was switched to luvox, klonopin and trazadone.  I stayed on this for almost 18 months.  I then was switched to Prozac, klonopin, and trazadone.  I stayed on this for about 3 years.  I then was switched to Effexor xr, klonopin, and trazadone.  I stayed on this for 2 years and then Zoloft was added to the mix.  I stayed on small doses of Effexor xr, klonopin, trazadone, and Zoloft for 6 years.  I was in remission and shared with my dr. that I wanted to wean off all meds.  My dr. gave me a 3 month taper for all 4 meds.  One month of being off horrible withdrawal hit so I had to reinstate.  I stayed on Effexor xr, trazadone, and klonopin for another 2 years.  I then weaned myself off of the .5 mg 1x a day dose of klonopin with little problems.  A year later I started a 10 month taper of Effexor xr.  I had horrible withdrawal issues and mid taper had to add a low dose of Prozac and buspar to wean off the last 37.5 mg of Effexor xr.  A couple of months after my successful discontinuation of Effexor I tapered myself off of the very low dosage of buspar and Prozac...about a month later withdrawal set in and I ended up on Cymbalta and klonopin after being off of the klonopin for 2 1/2 years  .  After being on Cymbalta and klonopin for a year I switched from Cymbalta to Zoloft.  I stayed on Zoloft and klonopin for about 6 months then tried switching from Zoloft to viibryd (which I hated), to Prozac, ended back on Cymbalta.  Cymbalta the second time was way too stimulating and I was experiencing tolerance withdrawal to the .5 mg of klonopin so I first tapered off of the klonopin.  I was inpatient and did a too fast taper of klonopin and tapered off over 2 months.  About a month after being off of Klonopin my psychiatrist did not believe that I was still in withdrawal so he added a antipsychotic named Risperdal.  My withdrawal from klonopin mimicked fibromyalgia so my dr. prescribed gabapentin.  Now at this point in June 2014 I was on Cymbalta, trazadone (for sleep), Risperdal, and gabapentin.  In June and July after 2 months of the Risperdal and gabapentin being added I weaned myself off because I did not like the side effects and felt all of this was withdrawal.  In the late summer/fall of 2014 I weaned myself off of Cymbalta.  I had been off of Cymbalta for 2 weeks and fibro type symptoms of pain hit so I was put on Elavil.  In November 2014 I tapered off of trazadone because the Elavil was helping with sleep.  In December I tapered off the remaining drug of Elavil.  January after being off of everything for about 3 weeks the bottom fell out and I was put back on Effexor and klonopin after being off klonopin for 10 months  .  In March 2015 I was put on lyrica for fibro which I am not sure is fibro but have a high suspicion it is delayed withdrawal.  I took Effexor and lyrica for 3 months.  I tapered off of lyrica in May 2015.  I began my Effexor xr taper in late July 2015 because I could not deal with the afternoon crashing fatigue.  I had to once again add 10 mg of Prozac to taper off of Effexor xr.  After one month of Effexor xr and 10 mg of Prozac I stopped the Effexor xr.  At this point my psychiatrist said I could stop the Prozac after one month of being just on it at 10 mg.  I did and immediately felt better when I did so in late September 2015.  I felt more clear, energetic, etc.  Two weeks later I started having brain zaps, and other withdrawal symptoms that mimic benzo withdrawal.  I have now been med free except for fish oil, vitamin d., multi vitamin, black cohosh for hot flashes ( I am in menopause), zinc, and lysine for occasional cold sores.  I will have about 10 days to two weeks of a window, then will have waves.  Some days these waves and windows will change by the hour. 

 

What I am now puzzled by is I have gained 18 pounds since the spring and my appetite has increased since being psychiatric med free.  At some times when I try to exercise I will have a wave the next day.  Not to be gross but if I try to cut back on my eating or if I have a day where I have several bowel movements...not diahrhea...my withdrawal side effects are increased!  I think this has something to do with the brain/gut serotonin system.  I do think I am healing but hate these waves.  The waves do not feel like my original anxiety/depression.  Anyone else notice how they eat affects their windows/waves?

[[la...]]

holy moly......all those changes in such short amounts of time. Be careful...I have a hx of changing doses (not meds)  multiple xs in a 2 yr span and I am really having a hard time 6 months out off Zoloft.

 

I hope that you can stay med free

 

 

as far as your question I absolutely have no idea...hopefully someone else can chime in and help

[[Sm...]]

Hi Downtongirl

 

So yea that is a LOT of changes. That brain of yours desperately needs some stability.

 

As far as food and symptoms, I've found sometimes certain foods make things worse. There was a while there when I was super sensitive to food and I cut gluten, glutamate and most high histamine foods. There is a definite relationship between neurotransmitters and the gut. Perhaps they should be called neuro-and-everything-else-especially-gut-transmitters.

 

I've found SSRI withdrawal funny with gut. When in strong withdrawal I feel nauseous and not like eating. In low level withdrawal I'm more hungry then usual, especially for serotonin upping things like carbs.

 

So yea.. not sure if that helped..

[[do...]]

ok quit 10 mg of Prozac 7 weeks ago...last night and tonight I have very bad shaking while lying in bed trying to go to sleep?  Is this par for the course?  Is there anything I can do for it?

[[Sm...]]

ok quit 10 mg of Prozac 7 weeks ago...last night and tonight I have very bad shaking while lying in bed trying to go to sleep?  Is this par for the course?  Is there anything I can do for it?

 

I've had shakes, cold and hot flashes etc from SSRI withdrawal. I'm not sure there is anything to do but wait it out (or do a slower taper)

[Guest [Mi...]]

ok quit 10 mg of Prozac 7 weeks ago...last night and tonight I have very bad shaking while lying in bed trying to go to sleep?  Is this par for the course?  Is there anything I can do for it?

 

Hi, downton. You may want to consider reinstating a very small dose, but reinstatement always comes with risks, so I would only do that if the symptoms are unbearable.

 

10 mg of Prozac may have been too high a dose to jump from, so if you do decide to reinstate, perhaps try a much slower taper.

 

You mention natural supplements in your signature as of last month. Please be careful of even supplements you were once used to as once your CNS is de-stabilized from psychiatric drug withdrawal, so you may become more sensitive to the supplements.

 

Also be careful of meds like your use of Flonase - http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=144824.msg1951659#msg1951659

 

Flonase is a steroid and steroids can rev up symptoms like shaking and inner tremors. Again, even if you weren't sensitive to it before, you may be now. I used to take 3 - 6 drugs in the bipolar drug cocktail and still have a somewhat functional life. Now I can't even take an Excedrin without getting inner vibrations (possibly due to the caffeine).  And I really think that's because my CNS is too de-stabilized right now.

 

And it could be the Nyquil you recently mentioned here: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=144933.msg1950981#msg1950981.

 

If your symptoms are severe and interfering with you functioning, I would consider removing all supplements and meds like Flonase and Nyquil to see if that helps. There are a lot of nutritional ways of handling allergies, as well as more holistic treatments such as using a neti-pot that may work just as well. By doing more holistic treatments, you can build up your immune system more naturally and keep your withdrawal symptoms from being complicated.

 

 

 

[[la...]]

DITTO everything that Mind said