Water Titration w/Vodka.

[[Te...]]

sweet. Just did it. Thanks guys

Hi,

I saw your youtube video,  I know how do you feel!,    how much of prozac do you take?

 

I'm in 0.5 Ativan and 1 mg valium doing a cross over to Valium.  and I'm taking 20mg Prozac

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[[la...]]

lets say that I want to give this a try.

I just cut .5mgs on Saturday Dec 27th to 6.5mgs

so if I want to get rid of the next .5mgs starting on the 10th of January?

 

now what do I need?

 

Vodka

baby food jars?

syringe...I have one from hospital but it holds up to 60 cc's its not measured in ml

I can just get one of the baby med syringes to use?

 

I know I sound like an idiot but I have such bad cog fog from w/d and fibro I can not trust myself making the simplest math equations.

 

so I need someone to basically walk me through each step

 

My Teva brand 2mg pills weigh approx. .170. So 1mg is approx. .85. do I need to weigh these?

 

if I want to get rid of 1 mg a month how much do I pull and how much do I waste a day?

 

I guess I literally need someone to write me out a complete titration plan. anyone up to the challenge?

 

Diazepam , this is the link that comes up under your signature and although it probably is very clear to most....I am still confused.

 

Lord Help my mind

[[bu...]]

lets say that I want to give this a try.

I just cut .5mgs on Saturday Dec 27th to 6.5mgs

so if I want to get rid of the next .5mgs starting on the 10th of January?

 

now what do I need?

 

Vodka

baby food jars?

syringe...I have one from hospital but it holds up to 60 cc's its not measured in ml

I can just get one of the baby med syringes to use?

 

I know I sound like an idiot but I have such bad cog fog from w/d and fibro I can not trust myself making the simplest math equations.

 

so I need someone to basically walk me through each step

 

My Teva brand 2mg pills weigh approx. .170. So 1mg is approx. .85. do I need to weigh these?

 

if I want to get rid of 1 mg a month how much do I pull and how much do I waste a day?

 

I guess I literally need someone to write me out a complete titration plan. anyone up to the challenge?

 

Diazepam , this is the link that comes up under your signature and although it probably is very clear to most....I am still confused.

 

Lord Help my mind

 

No baby food jars really needed.  All you need is a mix/storage jar, maybe 8-12 ozs with a screw top (pickles, olives, salad dressing, etc)

 

A 1 ml and 10 ml syringe will be needed.  Both are really cheap on Amazon, or most pharmacies will give them to you  for free.

 

No real need to weigh your tablets, you can  just halve a 2mg tablet, or dissolve a whole 2 mg tablet.  Consistency is more important than accuracy.

 

Dissolve 2 mg in 2 ml 80 proof vodka, top up with 18ml water.  Or for greater solubility, you could do 4ml vodka, and 16ml water.  You now have 20ml liquid, each ml contains .1mg V, or 1mg = 10 ml.

 

To drop .5 mg in 10 days, you will reduce .05  mg/day.

 

Day 1, take 6mg tablets, and 4.5ml (.45mg) liquid

 

Day 2 take 6 mg tablets, and 4.0 ml (.40mg) liquid

 

Day 3 take 6 mg tablets and 3.5ml (.35mg) liquid

 

rinse, repeat.

 

No need to discard anything.  Your 20 ml batch will last approx 6-8 days.  Keep in sealed container, and do not refrigerate.

 

Just FYI, at 6.5 mg/day, .05 daily reduction (.5mg per 10 days) might be a little aggresive.  You might want to start at .025/day to see how it goes.

[[...]]

Hi Lainey,  Builder has given you good instructions for the liquid.  I'll just add that you said you have 2mg V pills and also said they weigh .170g.  This means you can do daily cuts with the scale if you wanted.  Each .001g tick on the scale is a cut of .012mg V.  So if you wanted you could probably start by cutting .002g per day for a .024mg daily cut of V.  Just thought I'd mention that in case you wanted to avoid liquids since you already have a scale.

[[la...]]

the weighing and cutting is whats hard for me. I weigh the 1/2 to make sure its .85. then I can use metal nail file and scrape until I get it down to  .847

 

then day 2 I would cut .006?  day 3 cut .009  all the way till I have cut 1mg in 30 days?

[[...]]

If you have a 2mg V pill and the whole pill weighs .170g then each .001g tick on your milligram scale is worth .012mg V.  That is the key number for you and would be good to write down.

 

A .025mg daily cut is a good place to start at your dose, which is just about .002g on your scale, so cutting .002g each day would be a .024mg cut, just about right for starters.

 

So if you begin at 6.5mg, that would be three full pills and a filed pill of .5mg (which would weigh .043g).  The next day it would weigh .041g, then .039g, then .037g, etc.

[[Di...]]

I just need to be certain what kind of taper you are wanting to try. Do you want to do a liquid titration (ie using the vodka) or do you want to weigh and cut your tablets? They are two completely different methods, so it’s important not to get confused about that before you even start.

 

I would recommend you go with the liquid titration method, because I think that will be much easier for you to handle.

 

I’ll answer your question in red below, but this is just my preferred method. Other people may have different opinions.

 

When some people change over to a titration method they can feel some effects. So it is always recommended that you hold for a while to allow you body to adjust to the change.

 

 

lets say that I want to give this a try.

I just cut .5mgs on Saturday Dec 27th to 6.5mgs

so if I want to get rid of the next .5mgs starting on the 10th of January? Firstly, I would recommend that you feel as good as you think you can feel before you start reducing again. If you start reducing before you are properly stable you might be playing catchup with your symptoms, so even if that means holding for another week or two, that will be better for you in the long run. Once you do start your daily taper, be on the look out for any signs that your s/x are increasing, and make sure you hold if you need to. 

 

now what do I need?

 

Vodka Yes – get the highest proof/percentage you can get (ie 80 proof or 40%)

baby food jars? Any kind of glass jar with a lid that holds at least 100ml will do 

syringe...I have one from hospital but it holds up to 60 cc's its not measured in ml

I can just get one of the baby med syringes to use? 10ml syringes are best. You can get them from any pharmacy. Some don’t even charge for them, although I always had to pay for mine, but they don’t cost very much. You can also get them on ebay or amazon. 

 

I know I sound like an idiot but I have such bad cog fog from w/d and fibro I can not trust myself making the simplest math equations.

 

so I need someone to basically walk me through each step

 

My Teva brand 2mg pills weigh approx. .170. So 1mg is approx. .85. do I need to weigh these? No, not if you are doing a liquid titration with vodka. You only need to weigh your tablets if you are going to use a jewellers/milligram scale to weigh and cut tiny amounts off them. 

 

if I want to get rid of 1 mg a month how much do I pull and how much do I waste a day? You would need to reduce by 3ml or 0.03mg per day to drop 1mg in 33 days. However, I suggest not setting any specific deadlines on your taper. The most important thing is to keep your symptoms at bay as much as possible. Speed is not your friend when tapering.

 

I guess I literally need someone to write me out a complete titration plan. anyone up to the challenge?

I would suggest you read this thread in conjunction with the general liquid titration thread here….. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97511.0. That will take you, step by step, through the process. I know that post is quite long, but I had to cover a lot of different scenarios, depending on what people were using, but I’ll try to explain it as briefly as possible, so it doesn’t feel too overwhelming. 

 

Firstly you will be reducing just 1mg of your dose at a time, so in addition to the 1mg titration (explained below) you will need to take the rest of your dose in dry tablet form.

 

Break a 2mg valium tablet in half. (It's always best to use up the other half within about 24-48 hours because the half life will cover any minor inconsistencies in the cut pill size.)

 

Put half the tablet (1mg) into 1ml of vodka

 

Give it a few minutes to dissolve (You will still see some bits floating around, but don't worry about them. They are just the tablet fillers.)

 

Add 99mls of plain water

 

Give it a good stir

 

This has now converted 1mg of valium into a 100ml liquid valium solution (titration)

 

Now all you have to do is work out how much you want to reduce each day. I recommend starting with 2ml per day, and that will take 50 days to reduce 1mg. This is equivalent to a 0.02mg daily cut – to convert you just multiply or divide by 100 (ie 0.02mg x 100 = 2ml  OR  2ml ÷ 100 = 0.02mg). You might be able to increase this amount after a couple of weeks, but it’s best to start lower than you think and go up, rather than get too ambitious and then get hit with problems.

 

So now what you do is each day you make up a new vodka and water solution, and each day you progressively remove 2ml from the solution.

 

Day 1 – Drink the 100ml solution

Day 2 – Make a new solution and drink 98ml (you can either discard the rest or use it to make up part of your next day’s dose)

Day 3 – Make a new solution and drink 96ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 4 – Make a new solution and drink 94ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 5 – Make a new solution and drink 92ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

Day 6 – Make a new solution and drink 90ml (discard or use remainder the next day)

 

etc …….. until you reach zero. Then you would start the process again, but reduce the amount of tablets you are taking by 1mg, because you have now reduced your dose by 1mg.

 

Diazepam , this is the link that comes up under your signature and although it probably is very clear to most....I am still confused.

 

Lord Help my mind

 

[[la...]]

thank you so much.....I think I have to wait this last cut out a bit. I am really sick tonight

[[Di...]]

I'm so sorry to hear that Lainey. You may not want to consider this option, but seeing as it's only a couple of days since your last cut, you could go back to 7mg. The advantage would be that, as long as you felt okay before you did this last cut, you could start your daily taper more or less straight away. The other advantage is that you would be starting your daily taper from a nice even number (7mg) which would make things a little more straight forward because you would just take 6mg in dry tablet form, and then titrate the other 1mg. It's your call of course though.

[[...]]

I'm so sorry to hear that Lainey. You may not want to consider this option, but seeing as it's only a couple of days since your last cut, you could go back to 7mg. The advantage would be that, as long as you felt okay before you did this last cut, you could start your daily taper more or less straight away. The other advantage is that you would be starting your daily taper from a nice even number (7mg) which would make things a little more straight forward because you would just take 6mg in dry tablet form, and then titrate the other 1mg. It's your call of course though.

 

I had the same thought Lainey.  Your cut was only what, four days ago?  You can go back and should get relief.

[[fl...]]

Lainey I would go back too and use that scale to cut .002 daily...Im only doing .001 daily to get a feel for this..the burning has stopped , now headaches..yay but I will soon move to the .002......just think .003 is a little over a mg a month....just a little slower and you could catch some of those sxs early...hold a day now and then if you have to...you'll get to the same place..

[[Ja...]]

Can you do the Water Titration w/Vodka with Klonopin? I just can't seem to get an accurate cut when cutting the pills. They crumble..so I would like to do a liquid taper the rest of the way.

 

Jaddy

[[Di...]]

Yes, you can use vodka with klonopin. You could also use full fat milk.

[[Po...]]

Diaz-Pam,

 

Will post here if no answer I will probably post on your blog.  I take 4 doses (1MG each dose) of Lorazepam.  Could I do the following taper?  Take 2MG and dissolve in 2ml of vodka.  Add water to make 100ml.  Take out 1ml each day (unless I had to hold) and divide the remainder into 4 glass jars.

 

Then  1st dose would be .5MG dry and 1 liquid from jar

          2nd dose      "

          3rd dose        "

          4th dose        "

 

This would take approximately 100 days to reduce 2MG of Lorazepam.  Does this sound right?

 

Thanks.

Popcornlady             

 

[[Di...]]

TBH I don't have any experience with Lorazepam, so I wouldn't like to say that 2ml of vodka would be enough to dissolve 2mg of L. It should be enough to dissolve 2mg of valium, but 2mg of L is equivalent to 20mg of valium, and I wouldn't like to dissolve that much valium in that much vodka. I'd feel more comfortable if someone else chimed in who knows more about dissolving benzos in vodka.

[[Po...]]

Aweigh,

 

Can you answer this because of your experience with Ativan?

 

Diaz-Pam,

 

Will post here if no answer I will probably post on your blog.  I take 4 doses (1MG each dose) of Lorazepam.  Could I do the following taper?  Take 2MG and dissolve in 2ml of vodka.  Add water to make 100ml.  Take out 1ml each day (unless I had to hold) and divide the remainder into 4 glass jars.

 

Then  1st dose would be .5MG dry and 1 liquid from jar

          2nd dose      "

          3rd dose        "

          4th dose        "

 

This would take approximately 100 days to reduce 2MG of Lorazepam.  Does this sound right?

 

Thanks.

Popcornlady             

 

[[...]]

PL, that is too fast.  2mg A in 100 days is like 20mg V in 100 days.  I'd be comfortable suggesting .15ml (.003mg) to start.

 

SophiasNana uses this method (a little alcohol then diluted with a lot of water).  Ativan is soluble in alcohol just like V.  But the proof really matters.  80 proof vodka will dissolve 3.51mg whereas 150 proof will dissolve 15mg so I'd use 150 proof although 80 may also work.

[[Po...]]

PL, that is too fast.  2mg A in 100 days is like 20mg V in 100 days.  I'd be comfortable suggesting .15ml (.003mg) to start.

 

SophiasNana uses this method (a little alcohol then diluted with a lot of water).  Ativan is soluble in alcohol just like V.  But the proof really matters.  80 proof vodka will dissolve 3.51mg whereas 150 proof will dissolve 15mg so I'd use 150 proof although 80 may also work.

 

I am 71 years old and not familiar with the .15ml (.003mg) measurements.  I don't know what type  of a syringe to use, that's why I went with the simple method above.  I have a 1ml syringe, but am not sure how to increase the draw. 

 

Is there a way that I could use my method and take out 1ml for maybe two weeks, then increase to 2ml, and so forth.  I want to do a slow taper, but one that is easy to remember and one that I don't have to figure out, not good with measurements.

 

I looked at SophiasNana's method but it was confusing for me.  I do understand adding the water back in to replace the draw.

 

I thought that then I could keep up with the taper on the rest using somewhat the same method.  1MG dry and 1MG liquid, and then just do the remaining pill in the same method.  I hope this isn't too confusing.

 

Thank you for helping me out.

Popcornlady

[[...]]

I could walk you through it if you want.  We could come up with a method that you are comfortable with.  What pill sizes do you have?

[[Po...]]

Thank you!

 

My pill size is 1MG.  I dose four times a day for a total of 4MG.

 

Plady

 

Edit:  I do have a good pill cutter - 1ml syringe - 10ml syringe - 60ml syringe - 100ml test tube      Just not sure how to increase the draw.  It is too confusing for me.  That's why I went simple.  Maybe I should cut .25MG from each pill to have 1MG to taper?

[[...]]

Okay.  What you might do there is liquify 1mg and keep 3mg dry and split each four ways.  So each dose would be .75mg dry + .25mg liquid.  Dose every six hours.

 

To get the four .75mg dry pills just split two of them in half and one of them into quarters.  There will be four of each and you will take a half and a quarter with each dose.

 

I really think if possible it is best to do a daily taper, holding when needed.  I don't like step cutting.  But to do this with a 1mg ativan pill and not work with fractions of 1ml would require a lot of water.  Several hundred mls per day.  I guess dividing that into four doses drinking that much may not be too bad.  What do you think?

[[Po...]]

Would I then dissolve 1MG into 200ml and draw 1ml, then 2ml etc.

 

Thank you.

 

Edit:  If symptoms got bad I would hold where I was or go back 1ml at a time until stable.

[[...]]

If we do this right hopefully you won't get much in the way of symptoms.

 

I've never done the water/alcohol method, but it seems to work fine.

 

At your dose I'd want to start at a .003mg per day reduction.  This is a modest cut to get your bearings and see how you tolerate it.  Working with non-fractions of 1ml is a difficult requirement.  Can you work with halves and quarters of 1ml?  Is that okay?

 

You could put 1mg into 200ml and then begin by cutting half of an ml.

 

But first you need to pre-dissolve the pill in alcohol.  Can you get Everclear 151 grain alcohol?  dissolve it in 3ml of Everclear then top it up with water to make it 200ml.  Dose this way for at least a week as the switch might cause symptoms, then begin cutting by removing 1/2 of an ml per day.

[[Po...]]

Thank you SG57.  I think I can do this.  I appreciate all the help.  If I have any questions, I'll let you know.  I have to get the Everclear before I can get started. 

 

Thank you again, I thought I was lost and wouldn't be able to taper at all  :smitten:

 

Plady

[[ch...]]

If my liquified dose equals .6 of 1.6 mg of diazepam, would I top it off with 60 ml of water?