tapered to .375 clonazepam

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All told, I think I've slept a couple of hours now. Got a solid hour in this afternoon, until the phone rang.

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Kt,

Are you taking anything for your adrenals?

 

I just figured out how to use the quote function, I hope.  Mamie, what I do for my adrenals is topical bio-identical hormone cream (estrogen/progesterone/testosterone) and an herbal adrenal tincture.

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Hi KT,

 

Yes I agree with you, that you probably need to go very slowly.  But first things first.  Let's get your signature line going, ok?  I've still got a bit of the "benzo brain" and my memory just ain't what it used to be...you know? 

 

In my previous post, can you follow those steps.....click on the green line that says "profile" that you'll find just underneath the top "shoutbox".  Just follow those steps, and it will lead you to the place where you'll fill in.....(hopefully) in whatever way you want: 

 

what dose you're currently on, when you made the last cut, etc.  It's also helpful sometimes to know what other meds you're on (that applies here) and any last CT's like with Ambien.  That kind of thing, you know?  It will be very helpful! 

 

adelia

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Okay, now onto your taper.  I'm not sure I agree, KT, that it will be "hell" for you no matter how you do it -- fast or slow.  Were you somewhat stabilized at .375 mg?  If so, then you have a really good hope of tapering down slowly and doing just fine. 

 

The problem we have is.....we start cutting our doses and our brains get dashed, then we get all these w/d symptoms and finally "get it" that the benzo is causing a lot of destruction.  So at that point, we then feel that we have to no matter what get off this stuff immediately if not sooner!!!!!  I did this too.  It's kind of classic, I'm beginning to realize.  So I did my kamikaze taper and paid dearly for it.  Did I need to?  I dont think so.  Would I have still had symptoms if I went slow?  Probably. 

 

Here's the thing KT.  You don't even know yet how SICK you could really get -- from just your current cut!  It's only been 7 days.  And yes, I'm trying to scare you a little bit here to just stop a  moment and think things through.  Try to avoid the above thinking process (got to get off!!! it's killing me!!!) as much as possible. 

 

That's why I asked....were you somewhat stable (not symptom-free but were you able to function well enough? at .375 mg, before you nose-dived off to .125 mg? 

 

All these things are totally up to you, but here's one option.  You could go back up slightly, stabilize at that amount if it feels a bit more comfortable.  Then do a slow taper from there.  Using titration if need be.  It's not inconvenient, it doesn't take long to get the hang of it.  It will help your body heal in a more predictable way as you taper, the way I see it. 

 

That's just one option.  Another option is to continue to try to gut it out, after only 7 days at .125 mg, still not knowing what kind of misery is ahead, and for how long, before you can make another cut. 

 

Even though I did a kamikaze taper, I cut two different doses of .25 mg (a bigger one and a smaller one...I know, sounds funny) and held each, before going down to .125.  And I had very HARD TIME.  I worry for you Girlfriend.  Because I had the "luxury" of just taking care of myself, and whatever came my way.  You seem to have some pressing responsibilities going on...right?   

 

People often cross over to Valium if they're already sick on Klon.  So if you were somewhat stable at your previous dose, then I'd say you could well taper very successfully.....if done slowly enough. 

 

Going "slow" is the main thing that will help you avoid symptoms.  From what I've learned here.

 

adelia

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Hi back, adelia,

 

I was indeed somewhat stabilized at .375 mg. I was able to function well enough most of the time. Now I wonder if the stabilization didn't partially come from the Ambien I was on. Now that I'm off Ambien c/t, could some of what I'm going through now involve Ambien withdrawal. I got on Trazadone right after dropping Ambien. I hoped it would work and it didn't. It caused anxiety, as far as I can tell. Yeah, I'm scared. I've worked hard over the last 4 months, and now I'm not sure if I achieved much. I'm scared of last night happening again. I'm worried that perhaps I was tapering too fast from the get go, and that part of my depression and anxiety during taper have been due to tapering too fast. I'm confused. I don't know what dose to begin re-tapering from. After last night, I'm afraid to be under-medicated. Scared. Afraid. Confused. Worried. I've still got depression to deal with, although it's not hitting me today. I'm antidepressant intolerant, for the most part. How do I get the medical help I need from people who don't get the difficulty of this process?

 

I'm past the "I've got to get off it or it's killing me" attitude. I get that it's going to take me a year at least to do this. I get directly that I need to minimize the brutality of the process. I have far too much on my plate in real life apart from taper. Stuff happens. I didn't choose to be overloaded, but now I'm stuck with it and I'm exhausted. Disempowering, to put it mildly, completely apart from taper.

 

If liquid taper is what it takes, I'll do it. Just feeling overwhelmed right now. I want it all to just go away, but that's not going to happen.

 

KT

 

 

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It will go away, KT.  Slowly but surely.  One step at a time. 

 

I understand how you're feeling.  And I"m so sorry you are going through this...I truly am!  It's a miserable situation, but there is a way out. 

 

Okay, if you were pretty stable at .375 mg, and you jumped down to .125 mg -- how about splitting the difference and going back up to .25 mg?  Or how about .30 mg?  Then, you'd have still done your "first cut" or first taper -- of .075 mg.  Then see how that goes.  And start your slow taper from there. 

 

This is totally your choice and I'm not recommending this specifically.  But sometimes it just needs to be done to get stable.  And it's an option.  If you go back up to .25 mg, you will likely still have some symptoms, because you've still done a cut from .375 mg.  And it's only been a week.  So...see what you think. 

 

Last year in December, I cut from .5 to .25 mg -- still so uneducated as to what I was facing, or what I was even doing.  That's when I got the severe tachycardia and arrhythmia.  I hung on for a few weeks, feeling kind of miserable but the heart racing was really a drag.  I even had my heart checked out, and it was fine.  Stronger than ever!  So goes the strange abberations of benzo withdrawals.  To be "healthy" and yet totally massively SICK at the same time.  Anyway, I went back up to .5 mg and tapered from there, never to go back up again. 

 

I know you're scared and worried.  You can do this KT.  When do you take your dose(s)? 

 

adelia

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It will go away, KT.  Slowly but surely.  One step at a time. 

 

I understand how you're feeling.  And I"m so sorry you are going through this...I truly am!  It's a miserable situation, but there is a way out. 

 

Okay, if you were pretty stable at .375 mg, and you jumped down to .125 mg -- how about splitting the difference and going back up to .25 mg?  Or how about .30 mg?  Then, you'd have still done your "first cut" or first taper -- of .075 mg.  Then see how that goes.  And start your slow taper from there. 

 

This is totally your choice and I'm not recommending this specifically.  But sometimes it just needs to be done to get stable.  And it's an option.  If you go back up to .25 mg, you will likely still have some symptoms, because you've still done a cut from .375 mg.  And it's only been a week.  So...see what you think. 

 

Last year in December, I cut from .5 to .25 mg -- still so uneducated as to what I was facing, or what I was even doing.  That's when I got the severe tachycardia and arrhythmia.  I hung on for a few weeks, feeling kind of miserable but the heart racing was really a drag.  I even had my heart checked out, and it was fine.  Stronger than ever!  So goes the strange abberations of benzo withdrawals.  To be "healthy" and yet totally massively SICK at the same time.  Anyway, I went back up to .5 mg and tapered from there, never to go back up again. 

 

I know you're scared and worried.  You can do this KT.  When do you take your dose(s)? 

 

adelia

 

I've consistently taken my dose onece a day in the morning on waking.

 

.30 mg sounds doable, but then again, perhaps .375 would be wiser, or even .50. I'll have a few days of higher dose in me, but in my experience that couple of days doesn't mess with going back to taper. I was actually ok at .25, but I'm not in a hurry to experience undue symptoms.Tachycardia, heart flutters...got an ECG for the heart flutters, and everything was fine. Seems to me the heart flutters were caused specifically by Ambien. The tachycardia is definitely due to rapid taper, although I've historically had an issue with rapid heart rate.

 

How long would I stay at one dose level? No urge to hurry now. Brain scrambled.

 

Thanks for understanding.

 

KT

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One typically stays at a "new" dose for 7-14 days before the next cut.  It's up to the individual.  Whatever it takes to stabilize.  If you're going back to a previous level, it may take less time to stabilize.  Just depends on how you feel. 

 

adelia

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Hey KT, you're feeling pretty rough and I don't doubt it.  I'm glad you've reached the conclusion that you need to do this slowly.  I think adelia has given you some good suggestions as to what dose you need to stabilize on.  I would hesitate to go back to .50, that seems like overkill since you were at .375 and fairly stable.

 

I've seen a lot of success with titration, and it's easier than it sounds.  We have a Youtube video that makes it very understandable.  I know your life is complicated and that you have a lot of stress right now, but I don't feel that titrating would add to that. 

 

In my experience the only withdrawal symptom that came from my CT of Ambien was the lack of sleep.  I'm more inclined to believe that what you've been feeling is the fast Klonopin taper you've been doing.  I don't know if you're still considering a Valium crossover, but in my opinion I don't see much value added.  I've seen members have nausea and depression with that method. 

 

Keep posting, let us know what you're thinking.  We'll work with you whatever you decide.

 

 

 

 

[Guest [my...]]

How do you see the video? I mean I know it's on you tube, but how do you see it.. HMMMMMMM.. 

 

Thanks,

Mamie

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Hi Pam,

 

You brighten my morning! Slept like a drugged rock last night, courtesy of 1.5 mg Klonocide. I needed the break, although that much Klon in my system feels nasty. --And to think that five months ago I was at 2 mg... Back to .375 this morning. And my decision is...tah, dah!...to reinstate at .375 and do a liquid taper. I think I just need to stay at .375 for a couple of weeks, or even a month. Does that sound reasonable? Impatient wench that I am, I tapered too fast in the first place and it feels like being stable at one dose for a decent length of time is a smart move. So, my request is for a liquid taper schedule starting two weeks to four weeks from now, depending on what seems right to you and adelia.

 

 

Love,

KT

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Hi Mamie,

 

Here's the video link: 

 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=6393.msg61329#msg61329

 

KT

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Hi KT

 

Reinstating and doing a liquid taper sounds like an incredibly sensible decision. I have often wondered if I would still have so many sx if I had tapered more slowly. 

 

ntw

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How do you see the video? I mean I know it's on you tube, but how do you see it.. HMMMMMMM.. 

 

Thanks,

Mamie

 

Parts 1 and 2 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RzUvM6M55s

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z4vckQcT2M&feature=related

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Hi Pam,

 

You brighten my morning! Slept like a drugged rock last night, courtesy of 1.5 mg Klonocide. I needed the break, although that much Klon in my system feels nasty. --And to think that five months ago I was at 2 mg... Back to .375 this morning. And my decision is...tah, dah!...to reinstate at .375 and do a liquid taper. I think I just need to stay at .375 for a couple of weeks, or even a month. Does that sound reasonable? Impatient wench that I am, I tapered too fast in the first place and it feels like being stable at one dose for a decent length of time is a smart move. So, my request is for a liquid taper schedule starting two weeks to four weeks from now, depending on what seems right to you and adelia.

 

 

Love,

KT

 

I think it's a good idea to go back to the .375, amazing what a little sleep can do your our thinking isn't it?  We get so desperate when we can't sleep, that catastrophic thinking isn't the best and it's certainly not a good time to be making decisions.  You probably need to get stable after jumping off of the Ambien too.  Face it, you don't know how to sleep on your own if you've been taking Ambien.  Even people not withdrawing from Klonopin would have trouble.

 

I'm sure you'll know when it's time to start tapering again, I hear folks can tell by "listening" to their bodies.  Have no idea what that means since I didn't take that route. 

 

So, no more Klonocide for sleep, right?

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No more klonocide for sleep ! Too risky of a row to hoe. Time to try and catch an afternoon nap now. Feeling anxious.

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hi Kt

Pam asked me to post you as I've also been tapering very slowly from clonazepam. My taper started actually a year and a half ago 2.mg .  I got it down to 1.25 last fall before I stopped for about 6 months at that level and resumed in April 09. I was dry cutting , but when i hit .50 (my last pill) in the beginning of August my sx were pretty tough...insomnia, increased anxiety, gastro stuff...i started making .03 cuts every week (1/16 of a pill the smallest possible) but feeling that, too, so i began titrating last week, and it's working really well for me. I don't want it to sound too easy, there are some sx certainly still but without that big drop it is manageable. For instance, I had been getting a pain in the back of my skull for about 2 months, but this last week it's almost totally gone.

 

I crush my .50 pill into 100ml of milk, I discard either 1 or 2 ml per night ( which translates into .01 mg of the pill every night or two) which is a little slower than most people, but since i have to work and I'm pretty sensitive, I'm taking the slow train. at that rate the slowest it will take to be off will be another 37 days, but I'm aiming to make it a little sooner , so somewhere between 18  - 37 days I am hoping to be off. Hope my math about all this is right - i used to think in terms of 1/16 or 1/8 of a pill - that was easier to visualize. Hope it goes well for you however you want to do it - please write me at my blog if you like.

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Thanks Bill. I'll indeed write you at your blog. Right now everything has come to a screaming standstill. I've been tapering down from 2mg Klonopin for the past 4 months. Tapered too fast and got down to .125, at which point all hell broke loose. Massive tension, total insomnia. Right now, much to my agony, I'm up to 1.5 mg again. The tension is absolutely unbearable. Sweating, no sleep, racing mind, can't eat anything. I don't see any choice but to stay here for awhile. I think this may also be due to dropping Ambien c/t about two weeks ago and then adding in a disastrous attempt at Trazodone for sleep. Trazodone worked for a few days, then stopped working. Everything is disregulated now. I'm frightened, exhausted, and feel like a failure. I need to restart from scratch, and don't know where to begin.

 

KT

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I think you're right - that sounds pretty fast. Just know when you're feeling stabilized, there is a gentle way down. by the way - I had been taking lunesta, which is similar to Ambien, which i am sure was contributing to my overall reaction. I tried the traz. but hated it, luckily Benadryl works great for me. I've taken it every night for 2 months. At least with that any dependency is not physical.

Yeah, the worst is the anxiety, no doubt.

The journey is not linear, and unpredictable. but sure worth it.

hope you feel better, i'm sure you will when you stabilize.

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Don't beat yourself up, this is hell and we all know it.  Gotta tell you though that jumping back up to 1.50 from your previous hold of .375 when you joined is HUGE!  Why not compromise and split the difference at .9375 or if it's easier 1 mg? 

 

Hate to say it KT, but you remind me an awful lot of me!  I'm an all or nothing kind of person.  I did a CT because I didn't know any better, but I doubt I could have done it any other way.  This process is all about patience and perseverance and steady but gradual dose reductions.  You're all over map and you're paying dearly for it.

 

I think it's time to regroup, work on changing your thinking.  I quit cold turkey but payed for it for over a year.  You don't have to do that, you can do it and save yourself from feeling like you are.

 

Please consider stabilizing at .50 or 1.0 and then doing a sensible taper. 

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Hi Pam, Thanks! Te reason I've jumped up so much is that going up in small increments works for about a half an hour, tops, and then the agony is back. Just to get 4 hours of lousy sleep last night I had to take Klon 3 times last night. This is nuts! I agree, being an all or nothing type has gotten me into trouble. I'll try to stick to the dosages you mention. There may also be an underlying genetic vitamin B6/zinc deficiency disorder contributing to my current state. It's exacerbated by stress.

 

[[Pa...]]

Whatever you need to do KT, I'm with you all the way.  I'll quit nagging, I just want you well.  I know you've got a lot going on right now, life, family and other health issues.

 

I'm on your side no matter what!

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Hi KT,

 

I would never want to ct, i agree with pam, maybe you can try and stabalise and then do a slow taper?

 

love lynn xx 

[Guest [my...]]

Kt,

What is in your adrenal tincture?  I wish you would try some magnesium.. It certainly could not hurt.  I'm just trying to help here.  It is supposed to calm.  I use it.  I drink it. 

But I'm still at 1 and 1 half mgs. too. 

 

Mamie

I get up, type and go back to bed.  THIS IS AWFUL..  But can't sleep,  Can't do anything else either.. 

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No, I haven't given up or dropped out of sight. Just came to an epiphany at .125 Klonocide. Somehow, in my drugged daze, I'd completely forgotten that many years ago I was diagnosed with a biochemical imbalance known as pyroluria. It causes intractable anxiety, and it's what gout me on benzos in the first place. It's essentially a genetic error of vitamin B6/zinc metabolism. I realize that I need to get back on the pyroluria supplement program as well as withdraw from Klonopin. Here's a link on pyroluria, chosen only for the relatively succinct way it describes the problem. Please ignore the advertising.

 

http://www.healthrecovery.com/HRC_2006/Depression_06/D_Hide_In_Closet.htm

 

 

I think it possible that pyrolurics are highly likely to become benzo dependent. Many of the things I've read so far on this site in regards to anxiety, insomnia and depression that makes me wonder how many of us here stand to benefit from a pyroluric vitamin regimen. Just a thought. BTW, pyroluria tends to hit people of Northern European origin, and fair skinned, blue-eyed, blond-haired types. Well, I have hazel eyes and used to have brown hair, but I've got the ultra-fair skin.

 

Pam and adelia, I'm holding at .5 right now and have started the pyroluria supplements. My depression is abating.

 

Love you guys!