tapered to .375 clonazepam

[[...]]

Hi Pam,

 

I'm not depressed, and now, mid-morning, is my absolute worst time for depression!! If the shrink doesn't call today, it will be difficult to get through another night of half-dose Ambien, but there's no other choice. I'm at .5 mg Klon for now to deal with the Ambien w/d, but ya gotta do something about tension, depression and a pounding heart. I haven't had the urge to do the unthinkable, but it's pretty damn hard to lie curled up in despair, hopelessness and tension day after day. Ambien is by far worse than Klonopin--I have direct experience of that after the one-night reduction and the freedom from depression I'm experiencing at least for the morning.

 

As for Trazodone, I took it years ago for postpartum depression and anxiety, and it worked very well, and essentially immediately. That was at around the minimum therapeutic dose for depression of 100 mg. One can take around 50-75 mg for sleep and hopefully not have to deal with Traz's weight gain side effect.

 

Things have come into a fresh perspective. I think that much of what I've been experiencing as Klon w/d is a direct Ambien effect. Honestly, I think that continuing to taper off Klon after getting off Ambien may be a relative picnic.

 

Thanks again for the Ambien warning!

 

Love,

KT

[[Pa...]]

I've had continuing sleep issues for years, it was the reason I reached for the Klonopin in the first place.  Before that it was alcohol and after that the Ambien.  I went to the Doc last week and got some Trazodone, he gave me the 100 mg and that was way too much.  So, I cut it in half and tried that, much better.  Not happy to hear about the weight gain, I'm on a diet at the moment.  Since I've healed I've been eating like a horse, and it's shows. 

 

Just a word of caution, don't minimize the Klonopin withdrawals, I know you're not.  I just don't want you to set yourself up by expecting too much.  See that's how we are around here, we tell you all of this hopeful stuff then in the next sentence we warn you not to get too hopeful.....sorry dear. 

[[...]]

Pam  ,

 

Your Ambien experience sounds horrid. Owwww! I can relate! What you wrote about depression makes my empathy receptors twitch. I'll be glad too be off it, and again, thanks for the warning. I can't state that emphatically enough. Just talked to the shrink. He prescribed me 50 mg Traz at night and told me to drop the Ambien c/t. I also spoke to my primary care doc. She said to take 50 mg Traz at night and go up to 100 mg if I need to on subsequent nights. She also said to drop the Ambien c/t. I like getting consensus opinion  , and then draw my own conclusions. Mid-afternoon, and still not a sign of depression!!! Extreme tension and edginess, though. This is still better than yesterday. I'm wary of the Ambien c/t, but it feels right.

 

Love,

KT

 

 

 

[[Pa...]]

Pam  ,

 

Your Ambien experience sounds horrid. Owwww! I can relate! What you wrote about depression makes my empathy receptors twitch. I'll be glad too be off it, and again, thanks for the warning. I can't state that emphatically enough. Just talked to the shrink. He prescribed me 50 mg Traz at night and told me to drop the Ambien c/t. I also spoke to my primary care doc. She said to take 50 mg Traz at night and go up to 100 mg if I need to on subsequent nights. She also said to drop the Ambien c/t. I like getting consensus opinion  , and then draw my own conclusions. Mid-afternoon, and still not a sign of depression!!! Extreme tension and edginess, though. This is still better than yesterday. I'm wary of the Ambien c/t, but it feels right.

 

Love,

KT

 

 

 

 

Okay, okay.....one more warning.  Don't be surprised if the Trazodone doesn't get you to sleep like Ambien.  Ambein takes away our bodies natural ability to sleep by simply shutting us off.  Trazodone works with your bodies natural abilities.  It might take you a little while to teach your body how to sleep again. 

 

Many tapered and say that they slowly learned how as they got lower.  Others say just getting off of it was the only thing that worked.

 

Now you know everything I know....Good luck dear! 

[[...]]

Back down to .375 mg. Took 50 mg Traz last night for the first time during taper, and although I've had depression today, the depression has been tolerable. Now I've got another w/d symptom flare up--gastritis/massive abdominal bloating and distension. I live on a gluten-free diet, and even one slip-up can cause problems. So much for the occasional piece of toast 

[[...]]

Two nights c/t off Ambien now. Thank God for 50 mg Trazodone. Without the Traz, the Ambien w/d effects would probably be even worse than they are. No picnic, this, but I'm grateful to be off Ambien. Holding at .375 Klonopin. Time to get on with another day. I keep reminding myself that there's life aside from w/d, and creativity and beauty and joy.

 

[[Pa...]]

Hi KT,

 

You're doing great, I'm glad you're off of the Ambien.  I know you're feeling a lot worse than you let on here. 

 

Have you heard the term benzo belly?  It sounds like that's what you've got.  It seems like no matter what we do or don't do, we suffer. 

 

I'm grateful you're looking past this mess and know that the good stuff will return.  It will, I promise! 

 

Pam

[[Sh...]]

KT,

Glad to see your moving along.  I never got on Ambien after having my friend wake up in some weird places in her home and a ladder propped up in the middle of the livingroom~empty chip bags and NOT know why?

Scared me enough from getting on it!

I will be on going down to  .5mg klonocide~ tomorrow night and feeling scared getting below .5mg (1/2 tab)...it seems like only yesterday I was taken 2 pills every night..

I hope your titrating goes well..smooth and with no problems..it seems to be the idea way to do it!

This is something I havent thought about doing..mostly out of being stubborn and thinking I can dry taper but also I am limited in the amt. of pills I have left. So far I am surviving..better than most some days and not so good on others. I truely believe all the symptoms will eventually go away once I am completely off.

SO happy you found us and hope you keep us updated on your progress so that we can celebrate your success!

Your not alone because I am right behind you:)

XXXXXX

[[...]]

Hi Pam,

 

Benzo belly...too funny! That's one worth researching. Does Klonocrap turn us into celiacs, or what??? Benzobelly vs. Godzilla...

 

Somewhere in the worst of it today I started thinking about concentration camp survivors who, stripped spiritually/emotionally/physically bare by the horror of their surroundings, opted to see the best in others and to appreciate and love them as they were. A choice to not dwell in self-pity or become fixated on their wounds, but rather to develop joy even in hell. People who became foci of love and hope for others. Perhaps that's the metaphorical upside of what the w/d nightmare offers us.

 

KT

[[...]]

Hey Shelley, sister on the path,

 

.5 or .375, we walk as equals. No ahead or behind on this train! I wish you a peaceful, easy cut to .5!!!!

 

Love,

KT

[[...]]

Ok, I just read up on benzo belly on this site. Wow. That was the answer to a prayer. I've been googling "abdominal distension klonopin" and "abdominal bloat klonopin" for nearly 14 years, trying to find out why I was suddenly wearing this ridiculous painful gut and putting on visceral gut fat. I developed rhe gut and started gaining weight shortly after I went on Klonocide. To know that others deal with benzo gut is extraordinarily liberating. I noticed that as soon as I started seriously tapering 4 months ago, the gut came on with a renewed vengeance. Looking like a pregnant Buddha after one bite of food, or often no food at all. So swollen up (and so quickly) that I feel my diaphragm pushing into my ribs and that I almost can't breath. Gut sounds gone. No gurgling noises; just bloated silence. Pure gut paralysis. Unable to fit into my clothing. Ashamed to go out looking like an obese slob. Knowing that I'm judged by others for carrying this thing around. Hobbling down the road during a walk because my abdomen swells up while I'm walking. Generalized swelling everywhere along with the benzo belly. Probably carrying 30 lbs. of excess fluid. Eating virtually nothing. I should be emaciated from the ridiculously small amount of food I eat. It's not healthy to eat like this, but I have to. I grow a large vegetable garden, for God's sake. Farmer Fatso. It's ironic, and scary.

 

KT

[[Pa...]]

Hi Pam,

 

Benzo belly...too funny! That's one worth researching. Does Klonocrap turn us into celiacs, or what??? Benzobelly vs. Godzilla...

 

Somewhere in the worst of it today I started thinking about concentration camp survivors who, stripped spiritually/emotionally/physically bare by the horror of their surroundings, opted to see the best in others and to appreciate and love them as they were. A choice to not dwell in self-pity or become fixated on their wounds, but rather to develop joy even in hell. People who became foci of love and hope for others. Perhaps that's the metaphorical upside of what the w/d nightmare offers us.

 

KT

 

I did the same thing, I thought of all of the horrible suffering so many have endured and I was whining about withdrawing from a drug I voluntarily put in my mouth?  Yep, puts it in perspective doesn't it!  I like your style KT!

[[Pa...]]

Ok, I just read up on benzo belly on this site. Wow. That was the answer to a prayer. I've been googling "abdominal distension klonopin" and "abdominal bloat klonopin" for nearly 14 years, trying to find out why I was suddenly wearing this ridiculous painful gut and putting on visceral gut fat. I developed rhe gut and started gaining weight shortly after I went on Klonocide. To know that others deal with benzo gut is extraordinarily liberating. I noticed that as soon as I started seriously tapering 4 months ago, the gut came on with a renewed vengeance. Looking like a pregnant Buddha after one bite of food, or often no food at all. So swollen up (and so quickly) that I feel my diaphragm pushing into my ribs and that I almost can't breath. Gut sounds gone. No gurgling noises; just bloated silence. Pure gut paralysis. Unable to fit into my clothing. Ashamed to go out looking like an obese slob. Knowing that I'm judged by others for carrying this thing around. Hobbling down the road during a walk because my abdomen swells up while I'm walking. Generalized swelling everywhere along with the benzo belly. Probably carrying 30 lbs. of excess fluid. Eating virtually nothing. I should be emaciated from the ridiculously small amount of food I eat. It's not healthy to eat like this, but I have to. I grow a large vegetable garden, for God's sake. Farmer Fatso. It's ironic, and scary.

 

KT

 

I'm sure you found pages and pages on the subject around here!  I'm glad you're comforted by the knowledge that this is a "normal" part of this process.  Keep eating the good stuff though, you obviously know how important good nutrition is.  Please don't let the benzo belly limit your intake of good food, you need to keep up your strength.  This takes a lot out of us!!

[[...]]

Sorry to write about this, but I want to scream. I just got back from the shrink's office. I feel emotionally violated. He meant well, but talking about the emotional issues underlying my taking Klonopin, or Ambien, or Trazodone, was just not a helpful thing to do. Telling me that I'm fixated on benzos as an emotional issue avoidance method was also not helpful. I research too much and put things in neat packages because I need to find underlying reasons for things when sometimes there's just no reason. He really thinks I need to come in once a week. In other words, I'm sick. Huhhh? I research to save my life. He so doesn't get that I need to be off the Klonocide before I can even begin to address the myriad issues in my daily life that need to be addressed. I'm quite aware of them. I wasn't depressed before I went into the shrink's office. Now I am depressed.

 

KT

[[...]]

...And, says the shrink, most people can just walk away from .375 mg Klonopin, and I can't do so because of underlying emotional issues. Luckily, he forgot to write me a Trazodone script. I won't be going back there. I can get the Traz from my primary care doc.

[[Pa...]]

Arggghhhh!!!  He doesn't want to lose a paycheck!!  How can anyone know their state of mind while on benzo's?  It's not a drug used to treat mental disorders, it's meant to treat anxiety and epilepsy! 

 

When was the last time he jumped off of .375 mg of Klonopin?

[[...]]

KT,

 

Is your doctor related to my former doctor?    It sounds like we have a similar experience.  I actually asked my old doctor to help me wean off klonopin after being on it for only 2 months, and his response, "why would you want to quit taking it?"  No matter what I said after that, did not matter to him.

 

I would not jump off at .375mg.......thats still alot of medication.  I can totally relate to you wanting to get this klonocrap out of your life.  Another thing you and I have in common is Trazodone.  I don't like that drug either.  I asked my doctor to help me get off of that and again was met with "why would you want to do that?"  Luckily, I am working with a new doctor that is going to help me be medication free.  It is going to take a while, but I will get there.

 

It just stinks that some of these doctoros don't get us.  They don't seem to get how hard it is for us to get off of these medications.  Perhaps, some of them should go back to medical school.  Or maybe an update to what is taught there regarding benzos.

 

Good luck with the rest of your taper, you have found a good group here, that will help you along the way.

 

Tim

[[Pa...]]

Sorry to write about this, but I want to scream. I just got back from the shrink's office. I feel emotionally violated. He meant well, but talking about the emotional issues underlying my taking Klonopin, or Ambien, or Trazodone, was just not a helpful thing to do. Telling me that I'm fixated on benzos as an emotional issue avoidance method was also not helpful. I research too much and put things in neat packages because I need to find underlying reasons for things when sometimes there's just no reason. He really thinks I need to come in once a week. In other words, I'm sick. Huhhh? I research to save my life. He so doesn't get that I need to be off the Klonocide before I can even begin to address the myriad issues in my daily life that need to be addressed. I'm quite aware of them. I wasn't depressed before I went into the shrink's office. Now I am depressed.

 

KT

 

I'll never understand how a Dr can get an accurate picture of someones mental health when they're in tolerance or withdrawal from benzo's.  So many people who are in pain seek mental and medical help and end up diagnosis of fibromyalgia and bipolar disorder.  It's the benzo's!! 

 

So, he thinks your obsessing on benzo's?  Try to find one person suffering in withdrawals who isn't?  It's all consuming, we don't want it that way, but the emotional, physical and mental issues make it impossible to ignore. 

 

You've got us KT, we'll get you to where you need to be. 

[[...]]

Thanks for your support, you guys. I'm still shaking. I need to write this out for catharsis.

 

I get that the shrink had two coequal intents, 1) a ham-handed clumsy way of genuinely trying to help  and 2)  emotionally controlling the relationship by manipulating the situation (psychiatric dr/pt model) . For him, as a guardian of mental health, my affect, noncompliance with the traditional and safe to him "deference to psychiatrist's wisdom" model, personality, intelligence and issues are likely frightening and also overwhelming. Safest for him to pigeon-hole me into a standardized diagnostic paradigm while stating to start that I have a problem with pigeon-holing and over-analyzing.  His style involved trying to pin me down with questions about my personal life and then systematically criticizing each reply I made, apparently in an effort, in terms of walls,  to take them down and replace them with something more convenient to him.

 

Defensiveness on both my part and his part were in play. I can't intellectually blame him for his being defensive. I also feel like an unspoken contract to limit the professional relationship to helping me get off a med was flagrantly breached. It's clear that he doesn't understand what Klonopin withdrawal entails. He stated that .375 mg is a miniscule dose which most people can just walk away from, and that my difficulty in doing so says more about my psychological issues than it does about actual drug withdrawal. This one statement conveys both his misunderstanding of and inexperience with what I'm going through. When the Klonopin sedation is withdrawn, even very slowly, it has a peculiar characteristic of forcing floods of intrusive, unwanted, painful memories to the surface, one after the other. Life feels hopeless and absolutely negative. This engenders depression.  To demand, in this specific context, that someone examine their lifelong behavioral adaptations, walls and emotions is truly brutal. I won't be able to, nor would I want to continue doing that to a significant degree until the med is entirely out of my system. I wouldn't want to do it with this shrink, either. Wouldn't want to do it with this shrink...hmmm...nope, absolutely no sexual interest in the guy, and no sexual tension. I do, however, feel violated by his forcibly spreading my mental boundaries and attempting to penetrate them.  Seems like this was for his need and satisfaction, not mine.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

KT

 

 

 

 

[[Pa...]]

The problem KT is that not everyone has a rough time withdrawing from these drugs.  We're not acknowledged because not everyone goes through this.  We're in the minority so "they" say.  We're relegated to the section of the literature with the very fine print. 

 

I agree, when you withdraw the drug a veil lifts, when it lifted for me I was amazed at how clearly I could think and how improved my memory was.  The memory, yes long shrouded in protective gauze, safe from our consciousness.  The thoughts and memories that come flooding in are overwhelming, they're so strong it's as if they've just happened.  It's painful and we can't seem to find a way to stop them from flooding in.  No, you're right now is not the time to poke and prod at your psyche. 

 

Now is the time to survive and the only way to do that is to try and minimize all stress, and be kind to yourself.  This is an incredibly selfish time for us, it's a time when we have to tell our families I can't do as I've always done for you.  I can't be the supermom or the superwife or the superwoman.  You simply cannot do these things and heal.

 

I know you'll do what it takes to get off of the drug, but I hope you'll try to be patient and know that your body will still need to heal long after you take the last of the drug. 

[[...]]

Thanks for your levelheaded approach, Pam! Some good news. The Trazodone at 75 mg (sleep dose, not A/D dose) has reduced my depression and morning tension significantly and very quickly. No nasty side effects so far. I'm now stable at a cut to .25 Klonopin. Fair trade off. Going to postpone liquid titration for now and see how things go.

[[Pa...]]

I'm glad the Ambien and what it brought is gone and you're getting along on the Trazodone.  I don't see why you can't do a dry taper, Phyllis (Ladyh48) did it and she's doing great.  This is her taper schedule:

 

2/9 .5/.5/.5 10d

2/19 .5/.5/.25 "

3/1 .375/.5/.25  7d

3/8 .375/.375/.25 "

3/15 .375/.25/.25 "

3/22 .25/.25/.25 "

3/29 .25/.125/.25 "

4/5 .125/.125/.25 "

4/12 .125/.125/.125 "

4/19 .125/--/.125 "

4/26 --/--/.125 "

5/03/2009  BENZO FREE AT LAST! 

 

You sound pretty grim, but determined.  Keep us posted, okay?

[[Sh...]]

Hi KT,

I am glad your still fighting the good fight and found some support here:)

I was shocked that my doctor wanted me to drop the klonopin 2mg by .5mg every week till off~she reinstated me at 1.5mg after doing C/T of 2mg klon for 12 days and lost my mind!

I was in shock that initially my doctor whom I have loved and trusted for over 15 years basically wanted me to go into a detox center and didnt want to help me at all..

Just killed my trust in her and I had to beg her to help me taper..if I had done it the way she "wanted" me to I would of had to been committed somewhere.

 

I was in such bad shape when I went in to see her..my husband had to drive me because I hadnt NO sleep in 12 days, horrible panic attack, cold sweats, whole body numb, nauseous...mind completely gone and couldnt put a simple sentence together.

I am SO thankful I found this board and have no clue how I mangaged to log on and become a member..a mystery:P

I pray my memory comes back and even my suppressed feelings..its beats feeling like the walking dead! It will be a LONG time before I will ever go to the doctor again..I just feel so abandoned and hurt right now.

 

I DO know that I will never ever ever never take a benzo again once this crap is out of my system! NO one understands this hell or process of getting off them like the people here do..

 

I dont even try to explain to my spouse or friends anymore because I come off like a flake that cant deal.

 

This is such a learning experience for us ALL but we will be so much stronger & wiser in the end!

 

LIFE will be much more sweeter and appreciated without benzo's in our system!

Amen~I will shut up now:P 

XXXXXXXX

[[...]]

Grim is an accurate description. Driven, too. The shrink episode is a catalyst to buckle down and get off this poison. I feel like the taper process will be completed soon, and then what? Right now I'm exhausted. I'm so tired of the ever-changing s/x and states of mind. The thought of going through w/d for much longer is daunting, and I feel like I may be one of the relatively lucky ones in my own process. It feels good to be able to write things out here and be understood, even while being aware that everyone who is so kindly responding to me is going through their own difficulties.

[[Be...]]

Grim is an accurate description. Driven, too. The shrink episode is a catalyst to buckle down and get off this poison. I feel like the taper process will be completed soon, and then what? Right now I'm exhausted. I'm so tired of the ever-changing s/x and states of mind. The thought of going through w/d for much longer is daunting, and I feel like I may be one of the relatively lucky ones in my own process. It feels good to be able to write things out here and be understood, even while being aware that everyone who is so kindly responding to me is going through their own difficulties.

Reading your recent posts reminded me that one of my motivating factors was never to have to jump through hoops with my shrink again just so I could get another 30 days of lorazepam.  I hated anyone having that kind of power over me.   

 

It can be an exhausting journey, KT, and sometimes hard to keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep plugging away.  But I can tell you with total confidence, it is SO worth it.