Menopause/Hormonal Support

[[jo...]]

HRT only partially works for me, but I could not be without it.

 

I went onto a cyclic hormone therapy called Femoston in October, 1mg oestradiol and 10mg dydrogesterone a synthetic progestin. I am only peri menipausal, so i was suprised to find that the oestradiol in this dose was insufficient, so I went onto the higher dose Femoston, with 2mg oestradiol in.

 

I was afraid to take what else was on offer, because the other pills/patches contained norethisterone, and I had heard from many women, that norethisterone made moods worse. I had had enough of bad moods in wd, so I didn't want to risk it.

Although I upped the HRT in February, it only partially works, which surprised me more, as it works for most women in peri.

 

For the few who need still more oestrogen to cover their symptoms, there are the patches with norethisterone in, see abobve.

Some women on the menopausematters forum have been able to get hold of micronised progesterone, or utrogestan as its also known, the bio identical progesterone, and they have also been able to get more oestrogen, but when I tried to ask my doctor about it, she got all funny, saying she had never heard of bio identical progesterone, or micronised progesterone and would have to consult a colleague.

I felt a bit greedy asking for more oestrogen, due to my doctors manner, but I need what I need.

My doctor said that I may just have to go through the meno, even though i told her that other women get referred to meno clinics or gynaecologists for specialised hrt advice.

The pharmacist at the chemist had never heard of it before either.

This has made me feel a bit pi$$ed off because other women get their needs met, so why wont my doctor meet mine?

[[jo...]]

Why am I not suprised I'm in menopausal hell hot flushes all the time & I can't go on HRT as there is DVT in my family you know I have to laugh or I'd go mad .Thanks so much for all the info links so much helpful reading 

 

I don't know that much about DVT or how it's affected by HRT, but I do know that a lot of the reports of the "negatives" of HRT are not always based on actual facts - even the doctors misreport the actual findings. For example, proper use of HRT can actually either decrease or have no increase risk with breast cancer, despite the so often touted claims that it increases the risk. It also increases bone density and protects the brain and the heart. It's not surprising really because estrogen controls just about everything in a woman's body, and suddenly when it's taken away at menopause there are going to be dramatic effects. Replacing it only makes sense to me.

 

If a woman wants to use HRT, and she has done her research, no doctor should deny it IMO. Even if there were risks with taking it (which I don't believe there are) I would still take it because it is making my life better right now. If it means that my life is shortened by a few years, so what?

 

I happened to catch a very interesting segment on "Katie" (Couric) yesterday where they were talking about hormones and HRT. It was a very positive and informative segment, and didn't give all the crap information that Oprah has given about it. Hopefully I might be able to find it on youtube.

Why is my doctor insisting there are risks?

This is why she got funny with me when I asked for more oestradol

I said I am prepared to run the small risks to get quality of life, but she was having none of it.

She insisted the risks increase and I felt that I would not be able to tell her otherwise.

She also said I will be made to come off hrt in time, but I said I dont want to come off and deteriorate, and then she went on aobut risks again.

This is the NHS, believing there are risks and not thinking to look at the evidence.

[[Di...]]

Both your doctor and pharmacist totally astound me, and they need a smack over the head. You live in the UK where Utrogestan (it's the same as Prometrium for our US friends) is readily available. It's not like you live in Australia, like I do, where it's not available at all, and I need to get it elsewhere.

 

Both of them need to get on to their computers and actually look it up - especially your pharmacist. It's a bit like when I wanted to try liquid valium. My doctor had never heard of it, but when I asked my pharmacist he just hopped on to his computer and said "Sure. I can order it in".

 

As for you needing more than the 2mg - I honestly don't know. That's the same dose that I'm taking (except mine is in patch form ie 50mcg) and that's what is usually prescribed for someone fully meno, like me.

 

My suspicion is that it could be that you are taking tablets and a lot of the dose is being lost through digestion. Perhaps patches or gel would work better because it would be bypasing the liver. I know you have concerns about taking the progestin that is usually in the patches, or a separate progestin if you use gel, but you won’t know how it will affect you until you try.

 

The other possibility is that because you are still peri, all your hormones are still in a state of chaos and you may not fully settle on a dose until your hormones become more stable at a lower level.

 

Then finally, the other factor to take into account is your valium taper. Sometimes it is very easy to confuse the symptoms of one for the other. Perhaps your taper is going too fast. I know you're on a really low dose, so I hope you are doing enough holds or keeping your daily cut to a very low level so you definitely know that your problems are hormonal, and not withdrawal. I think you told me recently you were cutting 0.01mg per day. That might be okay for you, but I know that would be too much for me, and I know of another person around our same dose who would also not be able to do a cut that size.

[[Di...]]

Why am I not suprised I'm in menopausal hell hot flushes all the time & I can't go on HRT as there is DVT in my family you know I have to laugh or I'd go mad .Thanks so much for all the info links so much helpful reading 

 

I don't know that much about DVT or how it's affected by HRT, but I do know that a lot of the reports of the "negatives" of HRT are not always based on actual facts - even the doctors misreport the actual findings. For example, proper use of HRT can actually either decrease or have no increase risk with breast cancer, despite the so often touted claims that it increases the risk. It also increases bone density and protects the brain and the heart. It's not surprising really because estrogen controls just about everything in a woman's body, and suddenly when it's taken away at menopause there are going to be dramatic effects. Replacing it only makes sense to me.

 

If a woman wants to use HRT, and she has done her research, no doctor should deny it IMO. Even if there were risks with taking it (which I don't believe there are) I would still take it because it is making my life better right now. If it means that my life is shortened by a few years, so what?

 

I happened to catch a very interesting segment on "Katie" (Couric) yesterday where they were talking about hormones and HRT. It was a very positive and informative segment, and didn't give all the crap information that Oprah has given about it. Hopefully I might be able to find it on youtube.

Why is my doctor insisting there are risks?

This is why she got funny with me when I asked for more oestradol

I said I am prepared to run the small risks to get quality of life, but she was having none of it.

She insisted the risks increase and I felt that I would not be able to tell her otherwise.

She also said I will be made to come off hrt in time, but I said I dont want to come off and deteriorate, and then she went on aobut risks again.

This is the NHS, believing there are risks and not thinking to look at the evidence.

 

Yes, it's very sad that even doctors don't bother reading all the current research on HRT.

 

Did you read my follow on post where I quoted what Dr Vliet said in her book?

[[Sm...]]

My Dr was good about estrogen but as soon as I said 'bio identical progesterone' she freaked.

I think a lot of Drs equate that with fringe risky medicine/naturopathy. But there are plenty of pharmaceutical grade options - less so in Aus - but still.

 

Why would bio-identical be more problematic than chemically manufactured which has been prescribed in much bigger amounts to billions via the pill?

 

Just one of those spooky Dr things ...

[[je...]]

I'm 39, but have always had awful PMS. What are the symptoms for perimenapause? And what age does it start? Thanks, jenny

[[Sm...]]

Perimenopause can have lots of symptoms. I've only read a little about it.

It is mostly a worsening of PMS and other hormonal problems - sleep problems, anxiety, depression, irritability weight gain, weight loss, irregular/heavy/light periods, headaches etc etc.

 

I read one article which described it as similar to teenagers. I remember my periods were heavy painful and my PMS worse back then. The female hormones - progesterone and estrogen - are in a state of flux then and they go into a state of flux in perimenopause.

 

It can be anywhere from 5-10 years before your final period/menopause I think.

 

I'm no expert though. There is a lot of writing about it online. It is a phenomena with growing recognition

[[Sm...]]

Period started and no crushing depression prior and not needing estrogen patch bits to curb the anxiety (yet) though I'll probably need it by the time it is through and I've had days and days of rock-bottom estrogen. I don't know what I did differently. Hormones are so hard to pin down! For anyone in something like my situation you need a constantly moving strategy.

 

Look after yourselves ladies xx

[[Di...]]

My Dr was good about estrogen but as soon as I said 'bio identical progesterone' she freaked.

I think a lot of Drs equate that with fringe risky medicine/naturopathy. But there are plenty of pharmaceutical grade options - less so in Aus - but still.

 

Why would bio-identical be more problematic than chemically manufactured which has been prescribed in much bigger amounts to billions via the pill?

 

Just one of those spooky Dr things ...

 

I blame Oprah Winfrey and Suzanne Somers for the confusion surrounding the term "bioidentical". They commandeered the word and everyone now thinks that to get “bioidentical” hormones you have to go to a special compounding pharmacist and have them specially made. It really frustrates me because I see it mainly in Australia and America. Doctors don’t actually use the term “bioidentical”. They’re just hormones as far as they are concerned, unless they are doctor who pushes compounded hormones, and there’s a whole range of reasons why they do that, some of which are very dubious.

 

Bioidentical just means that they are identical to our natural hormones, and you don't need to have these natural hormones compounded to get them. That’s what I keep banging on about, because I see it all the time where people think that this is the only way of getting natural hormones. It's not, and you're probably paying a lot of money for something you could quite easily get from a regular doctor, a regular pharmacist, and that will have proper quality controls like all pharma grade medications. When hormones are compounded there is very little quality control and individual batches can vary widely.

 

If someone wants to use compounded hormones, that’s fine, as long as you have made an informed decision and haven't been mislead into believing this is the only way of getting bioidentical hormones. They are freely available from any doctor and pharmacist, just like any normal FDA approved medication.

 

[[Di...]]

Period started and no crushing depression prior and not needing estrogen patch bits to curb the anxiety (yet) though I'll probably need it by the time it is through and I've had days and days of rock-bottom estrogen. I don't know what I did differently. Hormones are so hard to pin down! For anyone in something like my situation you need a constantly moving strategy.

 

Look after yourselves ladies xx

 

Unfortunately it doesn't actually get easier as you progress into menopause. I'm still struggling trying to come to grips with a routine of progesterone what suits me, without having to deal with the highs and lows of hormones levels.

[[...]]

I am late joining the party so Thank You DP for starting this thread.

 

I am 50 and started HRT last June.  My doctor who prescribes the hormones is very well educated about the medically available bio-identicals, thank goodness.  I take Vivigel estradiol and rub it into my thighs alternating each day.  I also take bio-identical progesterone 100 mg orally at bed time.

 

My last blood tests showed my estradiol at desired levels, my progestrone to be a bit on the low side and my testosterone to be low.  We are going to retest on my next visit in October in order to allow enough time to go by for them to balance out properly.  If the prog is still on the low side I will be increased to 200mg.  It is my choice if I want to supplement testosterone for energy and sex drive, but I think I will wait until my taper is over and I am well out from the healing curve before I consider it since it can be an excitory hormone and I do not want to muddy the waters with another variable right now.

 

I personally do not know a whole lot about hrt therapy beyond my own personal experience, but I do know that I will stay on estradiol for life for the health benefits of it, and will stay on progesterone as long as I have my uterus.  My doctor who got me started with the hrt is 62 and she has been on hrt since she turned 50.  My own mother is 71 and has been on estrogen since she turned 52 and plans on staying on it for life.  Both of these women are strong and vital and both attribute it to the hormone therapy.  Who am I to argue?

[[ov...]]

If I had it to do over, haha, I would have begun HRT or bio-identicals in peri-menopause.  Would have avoided many problems.  May ot have ended up on benzos for anxiety.  Most of my issues began in my early 40s when periods became irregular.  Hot flashes, insomnia, depression and anxiety.  Our bodies need hormones!

Overcomer  :smitten:

[[ih...]]

Overcomer, I'm sorry you did not have the opportunity to receive good advice about HRT at the relevant time. Even now it's quite a challenge to find well informed doctors.

 

:hug:

 

Eliz, I also intend to stay on HRT for life as I have no hormone related cancer in my genetic history. I'm thrilled to hear about your doctor & your mum.

[[Di...]]

That's so true hope. So many doctors are living in the dark ages when it comes to menopause - and then when you try to find accurate information on the internet, you end up reading a whole lot of crappola. I'm hoping my lovely 40-ish year old doctor never retires, at least not before I'm about 90. She is very open minded about HRT and menopause. So I know I well never have problems getting prescriptions from her while I need them. Although hopefully by the time she retires things will be a lot better for us meno ladies, and the old fuddy duddy ignorant doctors will be have died out.

[[Sm...]]

Thanks to you ladies I know I'll always hormones on the radar and if I need help I'm getting me some HRT STAT!

 

I managed to get through a period without any hormone replacement. Sometimes these things build up - I'd used very very small dose estrogen patch for 2 cycles - and you don't need them for a while.

I also started taking vtiamin C again. I know that effects hormones but I'm not clear how yet.

 

No doubt at some point I will be changing my tact again. Always with the hormonal tactic changing 

 

Love you ladies!

Smiff

[[...]]

Hi Smiff,

With your information on another thread, I stopped the vitamin C about a month ago and I stopped playing around with the Seriphos as well.  They both seemed to help at first but then when I could no longer feel a benefit decided to stop in case they might be causing problems.  At this point I do not take any supplements except for my morning probiotic and D3.

 

I do also take natural calm magnesium and I read on some post where you wrote that magnesium effects hormones.  Can you elaborate on what kind of effect good or bad?

 

I tried reading up on it but cannot find much information indicating that it could cause problems.

[[do...]]

I have started taking natural progesterone cream 15 ml am and evening.  I am peri-menopausal.  I am waiting to see a bioidentical specialist next month.  Live in Canada, so takes 6 months to see this specialist.  Hopefully he can get me on the right stuff.  My progesterone and estrogen are low and testosterone is high.  DHEA is elevated too.  But maybe due to ativan?  Who knows.  Jumped 54 hours ago and praying that this will not be too long feeling crappy.  My period came yesterday too.

 

Taking magnesium at night, fish oil, iron and a womans multi vitamin supplement.  Eating veggies and lean proteins only, due to bad stomach issues since starting ativan.  On Tecta PPI for stomach acid issues...shortly after starting ativan.

 

any words of wisdom are appreciated!

 

Domestic Advisor

[[Sm...]]

Hi Smiff,

With your information on another thread, I stopped the vitamin C about a month ago and I stopped playing around with the Seriphos as well.  They both seemed to help at first but then when I could no longer feel a benefit decided to stop in case they might be causing problems.  At this point I do not take any supplements except for my morning probiotic and D3.

 

I do also take natural calm magnesium and I read on some post where you wrote that magnesium effects hormones.  Can you elaborate on what kind of effect good or bad?

 

I tried reading up on it but cannot find much information indicating that it could cause problems.

 

Yea I might play with quitting vit C again. My sleep has dramatically fallen apart last few days out of nowhere. I was sleeping in a few days ago. So I'll play with a few things and see if I can get a bit better.

 

I don't know about magnesium and hormones except to say they suggest it helps for PMS and maybe menopausal http://examine.com/supplements/Magnesium/.

 

xx

[[...]]

Hi Smiff,

With your information on another thread, I stopped the vitamin C about a month ago and I stopped playing around with the Seriphos as well.  They both seemed to help at first but then when I could no longer feel a benefit decided to stop in case they might be causing problems.  At this point I do not take any supplements except for my morning probiotic and D3.

 

I do also take natural calm magnesium and I read on some post where you wrote that magnesium effects hormones.  Can you elaborate on what kind of effect good or bad?

 

I tried reading up on it but cannot find much information indicating that it could cause problems.

 

Yea I might play with quitting vit C again. My sleep has dramatically fallen apart last few days out of nowhere. I was sleeping in a few days ago. So I'll play with a few things and see if I can get a bit better.

 

I don't know about magnesium and hormones except to say they suggest it helps for PMS and maybe menopausal http://examine.com/supplements/Magnesium/.

 

xx

 

Thanks Smiff,

I really love my magnesium and it really helps with restless legs!

[[...]]

OK update:

 

I have been on a continuous 100mg progesterone capsules daily since 10/14/13.  This is what my doctor recommended when I said I did not want to deal with a monthly bleed.  So far in that regard the daily dosing has worked well.

 

The problem I am dealing with recently though are what may be side effects from progesterone building up in my fat stores.  I have been PMing with another lady about hormones and she is the one who actually came up with the information we have been reading about this.  My side effects are canker sores in my mouth (which I have not had since puberty), very very dry hair and water retention.  All these are on the list of what has been labeled "progesterone toxicity".

 

Another thing that has been on going is that no matter what I try, my sleep has not really improved all that much even though I am doing a very slow symptom based taper.  I get more than 4 hours only about once a week.  So my question to myself was "if my hormones are at the correct balance, and my daily dose is as low as it is and my taper is going very well otherwise, could a hormone imbalance be contributing to the insomnia"?

 

I am going to be a lab rat and test this out.  I stopped progesterone Friday night and intend to stay off until June 1st.  If all goes well I should be able to see if sleep improves between now and then.  I will then take 200mg for 10 days and then stop to see if I get a bleed. 

 

Continuous regimens are not necessarily for everyone, and this will at least tell me if they are the right / wrong thing for me.  It has only been three days since stopping the P and I have eliminated so much stored liquid it is amazing.  My fingers and toes are no longer looking like sausages.  I will post any other changes / improvements as they are identified.

 

Stay tuned......

[[Sm...]]

Yus I've heard from some people that they think prog helps them sleep

Personally it does the opposite for me

The week before my period - when prog is at its highest - my sleep falls apart

Not just time sleeping but quality of sleep

Prog and sleep really don't work for me

[[Di...]]

I think Eliz is experiencing the same progesterone issues I have been experiencing lately. I hadn’t posted anything about it here yet, because it’s still very much a work in progress.

 

However, the first thing I do want to say to anyone using OTC/online progesterone creams, without medical supervision, is please be VERY careful. Please do not believe that progesterone creams are totally safe or they are a “cure-all”. Just because someone on a website, or some naturopath, nutritionist or herbalist, tells you it’s going to fix all your problems, don’t believe them. Do you own research about progesterone toxicity. It’s real and it’s not nice. 

 

Progesterone is a tricky hormone. A little bit is good. It protects the uterus and can help with sleep for some women, although other women find it causes sleep disruptions. However, progesterone is stored in the fatty tissue and too much of it can cause a lot of unpleasant side effects, and in some cases quite serious health issues. Here are some websites that are worth reading. 

 

http://www.rxlist.com/prometrium-side-effects-drug-center.htm

 

http://rhythmicliving.org/?page_id=60

 

The below website shows how overuse of progesterone creams can be a real problem. I’ve done some reading of other things on this website, and while I don’t agree with some of it, this article is a very good warning, especially for anyone who is self-medicating the OTC prog creams.

 

https://www.zimmernutrition.com/learning-center/health-articles/article/progesterone-cream-dangers/

 

Some of you will know that I’m a big fan of Dr Elizabeth Vliet, and in her books she is very critical of progesterone creams, and cites a number of case histories of patients she had to treat after using them. I know I have posted some excerpts from her book elsewhere on BB. When I get a chance I will try to find them, or retype them. 

 

My personal history with prog is that I have always suspected I have a sensitivity to it since I entered menopause (I never had any problems with anything before meno), but because I have been withdrawing from valium it’s been very hard to actually be certain about anything. I did notice however that when I was taking progesterone as part of my HRT cycle I would sleep quite well during the days I was taking it.

 

Being almost 55, I’ve really gotten tired of having periods though so I wanted to try to find a method where I could be period free. One of the continuous (period free) methods is to take 100mg of Utrogestan/Prometrium (a natural and FDA approved progesterone) for 25 days out of every 28 days. However, some sources say you can take it every day without having a break. So this is what I did.

 

Everything was wonderful for exactly 25 days. Then my insomnia and headaches returned. At first I thought it was my valium taper, so I did all the normal things of holding, doing a small updose etc, but it got worse instead of better. On about the 37th day of taking the prog I suddenly had an epiphany that it could be the progesterone, and stopped it straight away. I thought last Saturday night (a week later) things had gotten better, but that seems to have been just a fluke, and I’m still having problems with sleep and some headaches. It is now 10 days since I stopped, so I’m hoping things will improve soon. I honestly don't know how long it will take to clear. In the past when I've taken 200mg or 100mg for around 12 days, I have noticed that I've had issues for up to 2 weeks later. However, this time I took the prog for a lot longer, so it's anyone's guess. 

 

Another continuous option, that some women have tried, is to take 100mg on alternate days. I’m tempted to try this, but I’ve never seen anything conclusive that this will protect the uterus well enough. I’m investigating this further. In the meantime, I’m going to give myself a good 4-6 weeks away from the progesterone, and then I’m going to go back to using 100mg for 10-12 days every month.

 

In the long run, when I’ve finished my taper, I may try the continuous patches that contain the synthetic progestins. I have no idea how I will fare on them (could actually be worse), but it’s just one more experiment I guess.

 

 

[[ih...]]

Hi DP, for what it's worth, I am doing the prometrium only 10 days a month & have had bleeds lasting up to 7 days, (which I don't mind as it reassures me that the lining is  not building up too much), for the last 3 months.

 

I don't have any noticeable wdwls with this schedule but probably wouldn't suit you as it involves monthlys, (had forgotten how expensive tampons are).

[[Ra...]]

When I first started my bios, I was taking them sublingually, morning and night, took 3.65mg of Bi-Est (name brand) and 100mg of progest.  Took those doses twice a day.  Now I have a patch that delivers .05mg of estrodial per day and I take 50mg of progest cream at night (compounded). 

 

What's weird is when I went into acute last fall and was taking the 200mg of progest per day and had my blood tested (blood spot by speciality lab) my estrogen was high and progest was low.  WAY out of balance.  So we went to the .05mg estrodial patch I'm on now and 200mg of oral progest pills at night to help me sleep.  They did nothing to help me sleep.  Next time we tested, my progest was about 3 times what it should be.  Continued for another 8 weeks, tested again, now it's 4 times higher than it should be.  Estrogen is right where it should be.  So that's when we decided to stop the oral progest and try just the cream to try and get it balanced.  The pharmacist and my naturopath thought because I take my Xanax, Seroquel and progest all at the same time, maybe that was messing with the way the progest was being metabolized by my liver.  I've also read that benzos mess with hormones although I don't remember where I read that.  So I test again here at the end of April and we'll see where the progest is. 

 

Also, I take 1mg of testosterone per day.  I don't find that it revs me at all.  My naturopath told me it helps to metabolize the other hormones.  It has not increased libido at all, that has been in the tank for years now, sigh.  Poor hubby.  My naturopath did explain though that as you go into menopause, your libido naturally lowers because your body knows you are past child bearing years and there is no physical reason to have a raging libido.  Ah the joys of growing older  :'(

[[Di...]]

Hi DP, for what it's worth, I am doing the prometrium only 10 days a month & have had bleeds lasting up to 7 days, (which I don't mind as it reassures me that the lining is  not building up too much), for the last 3 months.

 

I don't have any noticeable wdwls with this schedule but probably wouldn't suit you as it involves monthlys, (had forgotten how expensive tampons are).

 

Thanks hope. Yes, I have conceded (for the time being anyway) that I will have to revert to having periods.

 

I've tried various methods (1) 100mg x 10-12 days every month (2) 200mg x 12 days every two months (3) this continuous routine which was a disaster, and I think the best one for me is doing it monthly.

 

The 200mg x 12 days every two months was okay while I was using the Promethium, but when I stopped I had similar problems to the ones I'm having now. I can't remember what kind of after-effects I had when I was doing it monthly, but my valium tapering journal doesn't show anything too nasty. So I think for me, the smallest amount of prog, for the shortest period for time, is what will be best.

 

Regardless of what method I use I don't seem to have bleeds that last that long. They usually start on the 4th day after stopping and only last about 4 days. So I guess I'll just have to live with that for the time being.

 

(btw hope - I just use the Woolies brand tampons and liners. They're not too expensive, and they do the same job as those other frilly fluffy ones..lol...)