ASHTON TAPER / CUT & HOLD SUPPORT

[[...]]

Hi All

 

Hope everyone is hanging in there today

 

I started my taper down from 6mg valium which I take 2mg 3 times a day, approx 6am, midday and then 6pm.

 

I decided to start cutting the night dose first as I am also on remeron for sleep and appetite.

 

So, I am on 5.5mg for 6 days now, taking the final 1.5 dose at 6pm.

 

I am not sure what to do with the next .5 cuts i.e. to keep cutting and then eliminate totally the night time dose or cut from each dose equally to keep it even?

 

Has anyone any suggestions or advice on this please?

 

I will up date my signature later too.

 

Many thanks all.

 

Xx

[[Ne...]]

Hi everyone,

 

All too often I've read here on BB posts written by fellow buddies who feel as if they don't quite fit anywhere on this forum because they've chosen to taper from their benzo per the Ashton cut & hold method. I find this very sad. I am one of those buddies, as well.

 

The general consensus on this forum seems to be "the slower the better" in order to feel comfortable while tapering which, for many, is not necessarily true. I, for example, have tried everything throughout my taper to make it more bearable for me to get through but nothing has worked. I've tried:

 

1. Holding for short, medium, long, and very long periods of time.

2. Liquid titration.

3. Shaving pills.

4. Alternate day, up & down dosing.

5. Up-dosing one day per week.

6. Combining two different benzos.

 

and on and on. Maybe there is some method that I haven't tried but I highly doubt it. And, in spite of it all, I've still suffered.

 

I don't believe there is a way to get through benzodiazepine withdrawal without suffering in one way or another. I am not trying to say it isn't possible, nor am I trying to start a war with anyone who believes otherwise. I am simply sharing my experience based on my 21 month taper (so far) and stating what I've personally come to believe.

 

The tagline, "The only way out is through", is commonplace here on the forum and I agree with that sentiment one hundred percent. That is exactly what we are all doing no matter what taper method we've chosen for ourselves. No, I am not pushing through symptom-free and this is definitely not my idea of fun, but I am pushing through and I am making progress. For the past 3 months I've been tapering on the conservative side of Dr. Heather Ashton's recommendations and it is working. For me, it is working better than anything else that I have tried.

 

So, I am hoping this thread will grow into a safe haven for us buddies who have chosen to follow Dr. Ashton's linear protocol of tapering off of benzos. A place where we can come for support without being berated for tapering "too fast". A place for those of us who choose to believe that Dr. Ashton's groundbreaking 20-something years of experience really does make sense. And really does work given the "wiggle room" that she, herself, advocates.

 

Many believe that Dr. Ashton's work is outdated -- I am not one of them. If you aren't either, please join this support thread and let's help each other get "through" and "out" of this together. There is no reason in the world why we should continuously be searching for that elusive 'perfect-balance' which, more often than not, only serves to prolong our suffering and make this whole mess... well, a whole lot messier!

 

 

 

THE ASHTON MANUAL:  http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm

 

 

 

with compassion,

 

koko

This , for me , hands down is one of the best post EVER. I say we are people not TEST TUBES and there is no recipe for one size fits all. Having said that from personal contacts I have seen daily taper people return to cut and hold, symptoms based taper people fight through symptoms and cut successfully. I do agree that too fast will create unnecessary suffering so I and others say "IF "X" is not working try "Y".

However, in Bliss Johns Book BENZIO WISE reviewed by Ashton it is suggested that 4 week hold per mg rather than the 14 days might be more appropriate for some as the original protocol might be to steep for some.

I recently got some ROCHE BRAND Valium tablets from Walgreen's. I had to wait for them to arrive and I hope they have not lost their potency as no one prescribes BRAND anymore. Tomorrow I cut to .75 from 1mg . I have followed this thread but I rarely post anywhere except the TENACIOUS TINNITUS thread as that is my main symptom and it's very debilitating. If not for that I would jump here as I have been at 1 mg 23 days and 1.2 before that for 24 days.....with little or no change in my TINNITUS. I believe OFF is necessary for complete healing.

Again great thread.

[[am...]]

Hi everyone,

 

All too often I've read here on BB posts written by fellow buddies who feel as if they don't quite fit anywhere on this forum because they've chosen to taper from their benzo per the Ashton cut & hold method. I find this very sad. I am one of those buddies, as well.

 

The general consensus on this forum seems to be "the slower the better" in order to feel comfortable while tapering which, for many, is not necessarily true. I, for example, have tried everything throughout my taper to make it more bearable for me to get through but nothing has worked. I've tried:

 

1. Holding for short, medium, long, and very long periods of time.

2. Liquid titration.

3. Shaving pills.

4. Alternate day, up & down dosing.

5. Up-dosing one day per week.

6. Combining two different benzos.

 

and on and on. Maybe there is some method that I haven't tried but I highly doubt it. And, in spite of it all, I've still suffered.

 

I don't believe there is a way to get through benzodiazepine withdrawal without suffering in one way or another. I am not trying to say it isn't possible, nor am I trying to start a war with anyone who believes otherwise. I am simply sharing my experience based on my 21 month taper (so far) and stating what I've personally come to believe.

 

The tagline, "The only way out is through", is commonplace here on the forum and I agree with that sentiment one hundred percent. That is exactly what we are all doing no matter what taper method we've chosen for ourselves. No, I am not pushing through symptom-free and this is definitely not my idea of fun, but I am pushing through and I am making progress. For the past 3 months I've been tapering on the conservative side of Dr. Heather Ashton's recommendations and it is working. For me, it is working better than anything else that I have tried.

 

So, I am hoping this thread will grow into a safe haven for us buddies who have chosen to follow Dr. Ashton's linear protocol of tapering off of benzos. A place where we can come for support without being berated for tapering "too fast". A place for those of us who choose to believe that Dr. Ashton's groundbreaking 20-something years of experience really does make sense. And really does work given the "wiggle room" that she, herself, advocates.

 

Many believe that Dr. Ashton's work is outdated -- I am not one of them. If you aren't either, please join this support thread and let's help each other get "through" and "out" of this together. There is no reason in the world why we should continuously be searching for that elusive 'perfect-balance' which, more often than not, only serves to prolong our suffering and make this whole mess... well, a whole lot messier!

 

 

 

THE ASHTON MANUAL:  http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm

 

 

 

with compassion,

 

koko

This , for me , hands down is one of the best post EVER. I say we are people not TEST TUBES and there is no recipe for one size fits all. Having said that from personal contacts I have seen daily taper people return to cut and hold, symptoms based taper people fight through symptoms and cut successfully. I do agree that too fast will create unnecessary suffering so I and others say "IF "X" is not working try "Y".

However, in Bliss Johns Book BENZIO WISE reviewed by Ashton it is suggested that 4 week hold per mg rather than the 14 days might be more appropriate for some as the original protocol might be to steep for some.

I recently got some ROCHE BRAND Valium tablets from Walgreen's. I had to wait for them to arrive and I hope they have not lost their potency as no one prescribes BRAND anymore. Tomorrow I cut to .75 from 1mg . I have followed this thread but I rarely post anywhere except the TENACIOUS TINNITUS thread as that is my main symptom and it's very debilitating. If not for that I would jump here as I have been at 1 mg 23 days and 1.2 before that for 24 days.....with little or no change in my TINNITUS. I believe OFF is necessary for complete healing.

Again great thread.

 

I agree with you Needsome. Koko's post was spot on. I used the Ashton method and I got real sick at the end of my taper, but I was determined to get off the drug and felt that 9 months was an adequate amount of time for my body to adjust to the lowering dose. In hindsight I should have tapered longer, but there are many people here who taper for a year or two and are still suffering when they jump. I am glad as hell that I am not still putting that crap into my mouth anymore....

 

[[no...]]

Hi All

 

Hope everyone is hanging in there today

 

I started my taper down from 6mg valium which I take 2mg 3 times a day, approx 6am, midday and then 6pm.

 

I decided to start cutting the night dose first as I am also on remeron for sleep and appetite.

 

So, I am on 5.5mg for 6 days now, taking the final 1.5 dose at 6pm.

 

I am not sure what to do with the next .5 cuts i.e. to keep cutting and then eliminate totally the night time dose or cut from each dose equally to keep it even?

 

Has anyone any suggestions or advice on this please?

 

I will up date my signature later too.

 

Many thanks all.

 

Xx

 

Hi,

I have been dosing three times a day as well. What has worked for me so far is keeping the doses even. I would suggest removing .5 from each dose until the end. My two cents...

Good luck!

[[...]]

Hi Nosery

 

Thank you for the advice - I was thinking along the same lines too.

 

Good luck to you too.

 

[[Sn...]]

Hi Nosery,

 

Was most interested to read your post.  I don't go on here so often now, so might have missed something.  Am down to 2mg taken at night in one dose. I would like to take in 3 doses if possible now.  Can you tell me please how  you cut from 2mg down into 3 x daily and did  you use a razor blade?  I find cutting small amounts off the 2mg very difficult to do accurately and any help would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks

[[no...]]

Hi Snow White,

Yes have not seen you awhile, hope your are well. First off I should say I am on a liquid taper now since 4 mg. But I still cut my 2 mg pills into quarters with a pill cutter, probably not the most accurate but I dont worry about it. At 2 mg I dosed .5 in the morning, .5 in the afternoon, 1 at night. My next step I reduced my night dose to .5 so all my doses were even (1.5 mg total). Hope this helps?

 

Good Luck!

 

Nosery

[[Bi...]]

The cut and hold is working for me too. Have regularly cut 0.5 every fortnight and am still doing fine. I also have the pattern of day 4 being the worst but it passes and then the rest is tolerable. This Monday could drop to 0.5. I will decide when I get there. I wonder if anyone has cut down .5 every fortnight to the end, even jumping at .5. The fear I have had over 'lowers doses being harder' has not been the case for me. Wow, can't wait to type in benzo free on my signature.

Love to all of you fellow travellers on this crazy journey.

[[de...]]

I have to agree the original post by Koko has to be the best i have read..I am just starting my journey on getting off k..and this will be my7th day of just shaving off the top of a 2 mg tab in the morning and taking the other 2 mg at about 4:30 in the after noon..Could someone please help me on whether i should divide the tablets in half and then shave the morning pill for now and then spread the other 3 during the day and take one at night i feel that it would be more evenly in my system that way.

 

Thanks for any advice..have a small headache when i wake up and my eyes are blurry and have started waking up with my stomach rumbling hope all of this is normal.

 

deep

[[ba...]]

i got a free syringe from the pharmacy i want to use to water taper with how large of a syringe is recommended or needed to water taper mine is kinda small its only 5ml theres 5 little lines between each ml number on the bottle.

what size syringes do you'all use to water taper with ?

[[Ju...]]

i got a free syringe from the pharmacy i want to use to water taper with how large of a syringe is recommended or needed to water taper mine is kinda small its only 5ml theres 5 little lines between each ml number on the bottle.

what size syringes do you'all use to water taper with ?

 

Hi babyangel.  I'd open a post on titration taper plans for the information you are looking for. 

 

Personally, at your dose of .0625, I'd either cut this chunk of pill in half one more time and jump or jump right now.  I jumped at .0625 and did fine.  Good luck. 

[[Sn...]]

Hi Nosery, thanks for the reply.

 

As you are on .75mg now I imagine your dose is .25mg 3 times per day?

 

Are you doing a liquid titration with either water, milk or vodka.  If so how are you doing?7

 

I'm not sure where to go from where I am and am thinking of vodka titration when I get down low i.e past 2mg.  Am trying to weigh up all options, but it does my head in sometimes.

 

Hope you are feeling OK.

 

Snow White

[[...]]

I'm glad my original post resonates with some of you. God knows if there's anything that I can ever do to help somebody else off of this monster drug I'll eagerly do so. This stuff is scary and, honestly, I don't think it has a place anywhere in this world. Not even taken for a one time dose. But that's just my opinion......

 

Bigmistake -- yes, there are plenty of BBs who have cut 0.5mgs every couple of weeks or even every week and then jumped at 0.5mg. I was aiming to do the latter but it got a bit too much for me so I cut back to 0.5 every two weeks. I'm hoping to jump at 0.5mgs, too. My thoughts are that 0.5 is such a tiny amount, how could it do much (or anything) for anyone? Not too long ago 3 buddies here jumped off 0.5mgs and couldn't tell the difference. They actually ended up jumping earlier than their 1 - 2 week holds from their final doses because they felt it wasn't doing them any good anymore. None of them got slammed so I think you have a very good chance of jumping from that dose. Judging by your taper so far I don't think you're going to have trouble doing so since so much of this taper process is psychological, you know? Anyway, good luck ... Monday is almost here. I'm so happy for you that you'll be down to less than a milligram! Woo Hoo for you! 

 

 

How is everyone else doing?

 

 

I'm down another .5mg now and still waiting for that big SLAM that I've read about once under 5mgs but it still hasn't happened. My sxs heighten on days 5, 6, and 7 and they're not fun but they never have been so it's really not that much different than any other time during my taper. We'll see what the future holds, right? I'm hopeful.

 

On a super happy note for me, I finally had my first true "window" last Tuesday. It was pretty amazing and kind of scary! The cog fog lifted and everything was so crystal clear and I felt so good ... it was weird! I say it was scary to me because after so, so, so many years of blunted emotions and then the last couple of years of w/d's the sudden clarity felt completely foreign to me and I had NO idea how to digest it. ha! How's that for irony?    I guess it will be a learning process for me. I don't know why I'm surprised because after all of this time how could it be anything but a new way of life that I'll have to learn how to live? Scary or not, I'm really looking forward to it, for sure.

 

In the meantime I'm still managing (don't ask me how..dunno!) the grocery shopping, raising my daughter, mall trips, out to lunch, dinner, cooking, cleaning, etc.. I don't feel like I can do any of those things and really have to force myself to do them but somehow I do manage to get them done. ? ? ? One thing I have drawn the line on this summer -- no travelling. That I do not feel well enough to do. But that's okay. If that's all I have to give up for now, I count myself as very, very lucky.

 

 

And that's probably more information than you ever wanted to know about me. lol. Just putting this stuff out here in case it helps anyone ... anyone at all!

 

 

Have a great weekend, everyone!

 

 

 

k 

[[Ju...]]

koko, thanks for the update and YAY for your window.  Isn't it great to feel a respite from wd sxs!  I always loved getting windows during my taper.  It was just the kind of break I needed to let me know for certain, the med was the problem.

 

Here's to many more windows koko, and a smooth taper from here on out. 

[[Sh...]]

Hi all just checking in. I made it through my week after cutting 1.25 very predictable Tuesday was very rough but I made it through and the rest of the week was bearable. Haven't been to the gym but I will get there when I can.

Work is over the top stressful right now long story but suffice to say it makes my sxs so much worse.

Listening to my body and knowing now that day 4 is always my worst I'm going to change my cut day to Tuesdays so that I get slammed on the week end and not during work.

I'm glad that most of the posts I read found everyone doing ok on their journey to freedom from Benzos.

So my next cut will be 1 mg Tuesday and I will hold for 7 to 10 days.

I'm so grateful to this board and the support I get here to manage my taper as I see fit and works for me. We are all different and yet all working towards the same goal freedom and whatever works for you I support you.

Peace and healing Sharon

[[Ju...]]

Good to see you moving forward, Sharon.  It's nice to be able to manage our tapers, the way we wish.  I hope this next cut on Tuesday works out well and that your hit falls over the weekend and very quickly passes.  Take care. 

[[...]]

Thanks, Juliea. You don't know this but when things get rough for me I think about you and hope with all of my being that I will end this taper like you did yours. If you can do it, why can't I, right?   (I also want to kick myself for crossing to V before giving a X taper a chance but that's another story... lol)

 

Sharon, stress is the absolute worse. It really, really sucks big time. I can be sitting here feeling pretty darn good one minute and then something stressful happens and -- *wham!* -- just like that, I feel like crap. I don't know the answer to that one because stress is a daily occurrence. It's not like we can turn it off, right? Somehow we're going to have to teach ourselves how to deal with it in a more productive way, I suppose. Also, I'm intrigued by your gym visits. How often do you usually go? How long do you work out? What kind of workouts? I feel weak as a lamb right now and don't know that I could do that. But, on the other hand, I feel like I really ~need~ to do something to strengthen my ever withering muscles. Catch 22, you know? BAa-Aaa-aAaaa.....

 

 

 

koko 

[[Sh...]]

Thanks, Juliea. You don't know this but when things get rough for me I think about you and hope with all of my being that I will end this taper like you did yours. If you can do it, why can't I, right?   (I also want to kick myself for crossing to V before giving a X taper a chance but that's another story... lol)

 

Sharon, stress is the absolute worse. It really, really sucks big time. I can be sitting here feeling pretty darn good one minute and then something stressful happens and -- *wham!* -- just like that, I feel like crap. I don't know the answer to that one because stress is a daily occurrence. It's not like we can turn it off, right? Somehow we're going to have to teach ourselves how to deal with it in a more productive way, I suppose. Also, I'm intrigued by your gym visits. How often do you usually go? How long do you work out? What kind of workouts? I feel weak as a lamb right now and don't know that I could do that. But, on the other hand, I feel like I really ~need~ to do something to strengthen my ever withering muscles. Catch 22, you know? BAa-Aaa-aAaaa.....

 

 

 

koko 

 

I usually workout 3 to 4 X a week very strenuous I do TRX suspension traing 50 minutes cardio rowing and lateral machines,kettle bells, and circuit. I get tremendous relief. I am 57 and a breast cancer survivor so I don't take my physical strength lightly anymore. I worked with a trainer for 6 months Nd have been on my own for 6 months. Anyway it was doable until the last few weeks but now it's tough my sxs are too high because of work. So instead of wanting to go to the gym I want to get home and chill.

Tomorrow is a new day and I plan on going to the gym it's helped so far with my taper so I think if I was able to push myself there I will feel better. I will let you know if I make it tomorrow. Had to work today and then I always have my grandson on Sat so no gym at all this week

I did play poker last night though and killed it it blows my mind how much better I am on this dose and that's stressful but i love it and don't want to give it up to benzos.

 

So nice to hear your read my post Koko.

Peace Nd healing to all my peeps Sharon

[[Sh...]]

Where is everyone I keep checking this thread missing all my peeps.

[[Bi...]]

Hello everyone,

I am so glad this forum exists. I also want to thank you koko. Without it I would not have kept going at .5. But it seems I am a .5er thru and thru. I am now at .05 and like you say koko, I think it is not making any difference. I got into a real state going to .5. Partly because I am now at liquid and was afraid of screwing up the maths. Partly because I also wonder whether that low a dose is akin to nothing. Thought I was going to go mad. But when I checked my symptoms obsessively I realised I had none. It was just fear. Thank goodness for meditation. I have lost the morning dreads. I am not sick at all. In fact the world seems a little too intense and it's a bit scary. A bit like your window koko. We can't even trust happiness. Well temporarily at least. I have also lost that 'haunted' look that I have had for..well who knows how long now. I am so utterly, utterly glad I am getting off this poison. My daughter asked me if I thought she should take pills for her anxiety (genetic?). All together now a thousand benzo buddies shout NO!!!

Sharon re the stress am doing mindfulness training (mostly from self help books but also from a Buddhist nun). It has been the best thing. I am a different (better) person.

Love and good luck to you all 

[[Sh...]]

Koko where are you? Missing a lot of peeps hope everyone's doing ok. I'm cutting 1 mg today my sxs are not great but I've held this'd time for 10 days instead of a week. I'm trying to time it so that my worst days which have consistently been days 3&4 after I cut fall on the week end instead of on Tuesdays used to cut on Sat.

I'm like a hummingbird on speed right now but it's better than a zombie I THINK!

Getting a lot done had to go to the registry first thing this morning an boy did that rev me up OMG I had no idea really puts this crap in perspective I'm a really damaged human being from this poison.

But I'm doing my best to get thru this and I want freedom from this hell. I want my life back until then I'm willing to go through whatever I have to to get this poison out of my system.

Hope to see some posts next time I check in really missing reading how my peeps are doing.

Peace and healing Sharon

[[Sh...]]

Looks like this thread is dying out not sure where everyone went really bummed.

[Guest [in...]]

Sharon Ive been on here a few times. I like the advice/comments here. I havent been much lately. I just cut to 7.5mg again. It was a FAIL b4, so I updosed and held. So, its only been a few days now, Im awaiting vertigo to strike...I felt full eared, itchy throat last night(assuming allergies), so I took claritin early this morn, and now, Im feeling fantastic! Hope this lasts! I take claritin whenever Im on a cruise to keep my balance system right, and Ive never gotten seasick, even with very rough seas. Ive also been doing balance exercises, in hopes of warding off benzo dizzies. How r ur workouts going? Did u play poker last night? 

[[Sh...]]

Hi Ingrid so glad you stopped by I'm feeling kind of lost and isolated a lot of psychological sxs. Poker was awful I lost knew I shouldn't have gone. Work is over the top stressful can hardly stand it. Haven't been able to workout for a couple weeks.

Really slammed right now with work hoping for a break soon.

Today is day 4 since I cut always the worst day and I have to go into work. I'm really venting sorry.

Sharon

[Guest [in...]]

Im having intense worry about feeling too good right now  These damn little pills  As far as working out, as you know, I hike, just go out the door, and Im off. So, Ive kept at it daily for miles. Im considering buying a bungee mini trampoline. I just want to jump and they are the smoothest. I want to feel weightless for some odd reason, and I believe it will help me during taper  . Sorry ur slammed, its an awful, awful feeling...yes, work, for me too, is stressful now, busiest time of yr. Next vacation not until end of Sept. Near salt water---aaaahhh 

Do you have a mantra that u can recite to urself, over and over? I do that sometimes to get thru a bad time. You know, such as "give way" or "this will pass, I am strong"...