ASHTON TAPER / CUT & HOLD SUPPORT

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Juliea -- Thanks for that link. I didn't know Jackie had a progress log. Right near the end of her taper I handwrote all of her w/d dates, amounts, etc., for my reference in case she deleted it all. I was happy I did because she did end up deleting it. But now I see she put it in a log.    ha!! 

 

Ingrid -- You seem to be doing really, really well during your taper. That's great to read!    I hope it continues for you as you move forward. Right now I've reached a point in my taper where I'm doing pretty much what Juliea has advised. I wait until my body/brain "tells" me that I can handle another cut before actually cutting. I sooooo want to hurry this up because I'm really at the end of my rope here with this whole benzo thing but, for me, patience must be key. Most especially right now as I'm getting lower and lower in mgs. So, as far as what I think about you cutting again, I would say if you feel you can handle it and that your body/brain are truly ready then go for it. Nobody but you can ever know when the right time is. So far things are going well for you so you're doing something right, that's for sure! 

 

Bigmistake -- One mg tomorrow. Congratulations! That is awesome! I cannot wait until I can say the same. I can't find the post right now but somebody here said that they've had to work through this whole thing. Was that you? If so, amazing! I absolutely could not do the same. Kudos!

 

bolders -- What you said about not knowing what is "just you" and what isn't right now couldn't be more true for me, too. How are we supposed to know, really, until we're off this stuff? I really like your attitude about looking at the positives about tapering -- being at half of what you were at the beginning of the year and then soon less and less until you're done -- instead of looking at it as in how far you still have to go. I really think attitude can take us a long way through this and you have a better one than I do! lol  Thanks for the reminder.

 

Sharon -- Yes, I wish you luck! I don't know that I could cut as much as you do at a time but we're all so, so, SO different that what's possible for one person might not necessarily be possible for another. All that matters is that you don't get so symptomatic that you cannot function at all. How are you feeling today? Sending you positive healing vibes as requested!

 

Small -- It's so good to see you post! (I think we've both become kind of quiet lately) Well, WOO HOO for you getting down to 10 mgs! YAYYYYYY!!!!    I remember when I hit 10mgs and you wrote to me that you couldn't wait 'til you could say the same. Well, look at you! Here you are!!!    Just think, soon you're going to be in the single digits ... I'm so happy for you! 

 

 

As for me, I'm just plugging along like always. Not symptom free -- never sx free -- but still plugging along nonetheless. I'm kind of surprised that I'm now two cuts below 5mgs and still haven't been hit by an avalanche of horrible w/d sxs like I was expecting to be. I've felt better in my life, for sure (understatement ... lol), but I'm not nearly as bad as I was dreading. I haven't been able to do all of the stuff that I'd like to do but I'm not bedridden and for that I'm so, so grateful! Now, if I can just keep this up a couple more months........ 

 

 

Hoping everyone is having a decent day...........................

 

 

 

 

k 

 

[Guest [in...]]

 

Ingrid -- You seem to be doing really, really well during your taper. That's great to read!    I hope it continues for you as you move forward. Right now I've reached a point in my taper where I'm doing pretty much what Juliea has advised. I wait until my body/brain "tells" me that I can handle another cut before actually cutting. I sooooo want to hurry this up because I'm really at the end of my rope here with this whole benzo thing but, for me, patience must be key. Most especially right now as I'm getting lower and lower in mgs. So, as far as what I think about you cutting again, I would say if you feel you can handle it and that your body/brain are truly ready then go for it. Nobody but you can ever know when the right time is. So far things are going well for you so you're doing something right, that's for sure! 

 

Thanks, Koko! I am doing gr8, and I could not even take a tiny crumb from klonopin w/o getting very ill w/in 24 hrs. Amazing valium...so far anyway. Im afraid to go with the way I feel tho, b/c Im 50 and have a terrible time b4 menses with physical sxs, so I have to consider that during my taper as well. I'll get dizzy, nauseas, headaches, back aches, insomnia-all b4 menses  So once Im over that monthly party, then I feel fine! 

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That's a good thing to keep in mind, Ingrid. Waiting for that mess to be over is a wise idea, for sure. When I started my taper, in my ignorance, I started it only a couple of months post-hysterectomy. I didn't have a clue that surgically induced menopause would matter at all. Now I wonder how many of my tapering sxs have been/are from menopause and how many are just from the w/d itself!    It doesn't matter in the end though because I still would have done the same thing.

 

 

koko 

[Guest [in...]]

That's a good thing to keep in mind, Ingrid. Waiting for that mess to be over is a wise idea, for sure. When I started my taper, in my ignorance, I started it only a couple of months post-hysterectomy. I didn't have a clue that surgically induced menopause would matter at all. Now I wonder how many of my tapering sxs have been/are from menopause and how many are just from the w/d itself!    It doesn't matter in the end though because I still would have done the same thing.

 

 

koko 

 

Glad u have no regrets.  I wonder what menopause will bring with w/d going on? That's assuming Im still tapering then. Of course, I have no idea when I'll be done and in official menopausal, other than mom stopped at 52. I also don't know if menopause will have its own set of mental stuff for me  Oh dear, I shan't think of that anymore 

[[Sh...]]

Doing a little better today. I had to up dose so my cut is 1.25 and I'm going to hold for a week.

Sharon

 

[[Bi...]]

Hello everyone and thanks koko and Ingrid for being great cheerleaders, 

Any sx from cuts usually come after 3 or 4 days but my last cuts were pain free. Cross my heart I swear I think I am getting better not worse with each cut. And if this is true for me I can't see why it won't be for you. I do work and haven't missed a day, it's just an office job (low stress is the key) but the work is new to me (started when I was at my worst in the middle of a drastic cut - goodness knows what they think of me as I was a mess!). But working helps me, if I was home would imagine all kinds of things. I am starting to plan new things. I feel I can think straight and am not as neurotic as I used to be when on V. Reading lots of CBT books and it has helped me 'go with the flow'. I am not 100 per cent (morning anxiety) but getting off valium is the BEST thing ever.

[[Sm...]]

 

 

Small -- It's so good to see you post! (I think we've both become kind of quiet lately) Well, WOO HOO for you getting down to 10 mgs! YAYYYYYY!!!!    I remember when I hit 10mgs and you wrote to me that you couldn't wait 'til you could say the same. Well, look at you! Here you are!!!    Just think, soon you're going to be in the single digits ... I'm so happy for you! 

 

 

As for me, I'm just plugging along like always. Not symptom free -- never sx free -- but still plugging along nonetheless. I'm kind of surprised that I'm now two cuts below 5mgs and still haven't been hit by an avalanche of horrible w/d sxs like I was expecting to be. I've felt better in my life, for sure (understatement ... lol), but I'm not nearly as bad as I was dreading. I haven't been able to do all of the stuff that I'd like to do but I'm not bedridden and for that I'm so, so grateful! Now, if I can just keep this up a couple more months........ 

 

 

Hoping everyone is having a decent day...........................

 

 

 

 

k 

 

Hey Koko,Glad your doing OK,You keep on pushing through and your going to be finished before you know it.

 

Yep down to 10 and dosing twice a day,Feels a bit strange when it comes to the time of day that I used to dose in midday,Only 7 days in from last cut so feeling a little iffy but not to bad.

 

hope you pop back in soon

[[Sm...]]

Hello everyone and thanks koko and Ingrid for being great cheerleaders, 

Any sx from cuts usually come after 3 or 4 days but my last cuts were pain free. Cross my heart I swear I think I am getting better not worse with each cut. And if this is true for me I can't see why it won't be for you. I do work and haven't missed a day, it's just an office job (low stress is the key) but the work is new to me (started when I was at my worst in the middle of a drastic cut - goodness knows what they think of me as I was a mess!). But working helps me, if I was home would imagine all kinds of things. I am starting to plan new things. I feel I can think straight and am not as neurotic as I used to be when on V. Reading lots of CBT books and it has helped me 'go with the flow'. I am not 100 per cent (morning anxiety) but getting off valium is the BEST thing ever.

 

That's an awesome post,So positive,And that's how we all need to be.

 

Small

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Bigmistake,

 

I'm so glad that you're feeling better instead of worse. You're all the way down to 1mg, can you believe it? Just the psychological boost from that must feel amazing. You'll soon be off of this stuff and the w/d will all be behind you. Fantastic!

 

Thanks for your updates. When I read them I'm so happy for you and so hopeful for myself and everyone else here. I hope we're all as fortunate as you. 

 

 

koko 

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Doing a little better today. I had to up dose so my cut is 1.25 and I'm going to hold for a week.

Sharon

 

Hi Sharon,

 

Even doing an updose at the rate you're going is still a big reduction so I hope that you're seeing it that way and not as a stall in your tapering.

 

How are you holding up?

 

 

 

koko 

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Hey Koko,Glad your doing OK,You keep on pushing through and your going to be finished before you know it.

 

Yep down to 10 and dosing twice a day,Feels a bit strange when it comes to the time of day that I used to dose in midday,Only 7 days in from last cut so feeling a little iffy but not to bad.

 

hope you pop back in soon

 

Hi Small,

 

So you've dropped your midday dose entirely? Wow. That must feel weird. I think when I end up having to do that I'm probably going to feel kind of ... um, naked  ... at that time of day. ha! Just think how strange (and liberating!) it's going to feel when we're not taking any doses per day. That's going to be really, really weird! 

 

I hope the "iffy" feeling stays at "iffy" and doesn't get any worse for you. I'm having some physical sxs now (stomach, left hand) which is hard to get used to since, so far, it's mostly been mental/psychological stuff. So this is new for me. Do you ever get physical pain?

 

How's the new living situation going? And your new ... *drool* .... TV? 

 

I hope your evening is going well,

 

 

 

k 

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Hi Ingrid,

 

So you got hit with vertigo, huh? I'm really sorry about that.    One of the girls here got a bad case of vertigo once off the benzos but it eventually sorted itself out for her. I hope that the same will happen for you. I've had it since before starting this taper (tolerance) but not in a horrible awful way where I felt like I was going to hit the floor. It's mild for me, like I can't look up at the sky without feeling like I'm going to fall backward, so I just don't look up at the sky. lol

 

You hang in there, okay?

 

 

 

koko 

[Guest [in...]]

Koko Thanks! I will hold a bit, then cut .5mg. If it happens again, I will not updose. I will continue on, and just hope it works itself out. Vertigo is the worst, most debilitating thing, hate it  Valium figured out that's my phobia, the very thing that landed me on benzos in the first place. 

Thanks for checking in on everyone 

[[Sh...]]

I'm finally feeling so much better I got over the hump after I up dosed and was able to go to the gym yesterday and workout pretty strenuously and it felt great.

Thanks kook for being there for me and confirming what I thought was the right thing.

Not bothering to change my sig I will be cutting weekly now so Sat will be 1.25 and then 1 mg weekly until I'm low enough to jump.

Work is so stressful but I'm getting through it. I started sleeping again Wed. So that helps the healing sooo much.

 

I haven't really caught up on everyone but please know I'm routing for everyone here. I did read some great encouraging posts thanks to all that share here.

Peace and healing Sharon

[[Bi...]]

Hi Small  and koko I'm glad that the posts make you feel better. My fear is that if I will write something good it might appear as boasting. I just want you all to know how good it can get. I felt so scared cutting to 1, almost didn't do it. But I am not listening to my stupid anxieties anymore!  I am not feeling any worse at 1 even though it's been 4 days. I woke up to the alarm today not to the screaming horrors at 4am as I have been each other morning in taperville.

I'm sorry Ingrid and Sharon that things are not going well at the moment. Isn't it odd that benzos target your vulnerability. Mine is my stomach, nausea. So I was able to treat that with some medicine from the doctor. This enabled me to keep dropping at a steady rate. After reading posts of others I am now taking magnesium tablets, think it is helping. Have you all tried them? Worth a shot.

Anyway love and strength to you all. 

 

[Guest [in...]]

Hi Small  and koko I'm glad that the posts make you feel better. My fear is that if I will write something good it might appear as boasting. I just want you all to know how good it can get. I felt so scared cutting to 1, almost didn't do it. But I am not listening to my stupid anxieties anymore!  I am not feeling any worse at 1 even though it's been 4 days. I woke up to the alarm today not to the screaming horrors at 4am as I have been each other morning in taperville.

I'm sorry Ingrid and Sharon that things are not going well at the moment. Isn't it odd that benzos target your vulnerability. Mine is my stomach, nausea. So I was able to treat that with some medicine from the doctor. This enabled me to keep dropping at a steady rate. After reading posts of others I am now taking magnesium tablets, think it is helping. Have you all tried them? Worth a shot.

Anyway love and strength to you all. 

 

Bigmistake I love to hear u "boast" (its not really boasting  ), ur just giving us strength. I consider it Essential to read that someone is doing well and doing well at such a low dose 

[Guest [in...]]

Sharon glad ur feeling better after ur updose  Im also feeling better after my updose of .5mg back to 8mg, it was a pretty quick fix for my vertigo, but now I have to scramble to figure out my next move 

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Hi Koko, hope you are well. I've being following the Ashton Manual guide and was doing ok until I tried speeding it up to a reduction 4mgs of diazepam  a week. I won't be doing that again. I'm sticking to the guide. I find that herbal medicine is quite beneficial. I know a herbal medicine practitioner and he prescribed a mixture of skullcap, valerian and passion flower tinctures. I use 8-10 mls 3 times a day and also use propranolol 10mgs x 3 a day off the doctor. I also use kratom at night which some believe to be addictive, but I disagree. I just thought I'd share this info with you, I don't know if you want to or have tried herbs. I find them very useful, they get rid of my anxiety and help me sleep. I started out on 30mgs of diazepam, 10mgs of nitrazepam and 15mgs of zopiclone. I'm now down to 16mgs of diazepam, 9mgs 0f nitrazepam and 7.5 of zopiclone

[[Gi...]]

My reading, I will re-visit, was Dr. Ashton was okay with holding at a level for as long as...She seems oriented to

patient control of the pace. I do recall she came out strongly against going back up, thus was okay with holding

steady at various times. This is what I did to get from 40 mg valium to 20 mg valium.  Wiggy all the way.

Much shaming from my doctors.

[[bo...]]

Sharonif and other buddies, watch for 'overcooking it' tapering down from 10mg V. I did a 1mg/week reduction from 10-1mg last year and it went badly pear-shaped for me. If the taper rate is faster than you body is healing, then the severity of sx mounts up, and moves from 'manageable' into aweful for many people. Because the half life is long, the impact of the cuts mounts up if cutting at weekly intervals. I was coping ok down to about 4mg, but as things turned bad it was very difficult to fix because I'd arrived at the lower doses too quickly.

 

I know - we're all different, and I'm genuinely happy for you if you can get off quicker. I'm now very cautious, but also want to push on taking definite steps regularly. So at present it's 0.5mg approx every 2 weeks, dictated by feeling well enough to keep cutting. The size of the drop each time seems manageable (although the % drop starts increasing significantly now I'm about to go below 5mg), and the length of the hold is enough to feel confident that the withdrawals have bitten and subsided sufficiently to press on.

 

I'm in bed with a cold/flu thing, thanks to my kids, and will probably hold longer than 2 weeks before moving to 4.5mg just because my general health (unrelated to benzo withdrawal) has been crap that past week or so.

[Guest [in...]]

Sharonif and other buddies, watch for 'overcooking it' tapering down from 10mg V. I did a 1mg/week reduction from 10-1mg last year and it went badly pear-shaped for me. If the taper rate is faster than you body is healing, then the severity of sx mounts up, and moves from 'manageable' into aweful for many people. Because the half life is long, the impact of the cuts mounts up if cutting at weekly intervals. I was coping ok down to about 4mg, but as things turned bad it was very difficult to fix because I'd arrived at the lower doses too quickly.

 

I know - we're all different, and I'm genuinely happy for you if you can get off quicker. I'm now very cautious, but also want to push on taking definite steps regularly. So at present it's 0.5mg approx every 2 weeks, dictated by feeling well enough to keep cutting. The size of the drop each time seems manageable (although the % drop starts increasing significantly now I'm about to go below 5mg), and the length of the hold is enough to feel confident that the withdrawals have bitten and subsided sufficiently to press on.

 

I'm in bed with a cold/flu thing, thanks to my kids, and will probably hold longer than 2 weeks before moving to 4.5mg just because my general health (unrelated to benzo withdrawal) has been crap that past week or so.

 

Thanks for the advice bolders. It means a lot coming from someone whose been there. Sorry to hear, ur not feeling well. Hope ur on the mend soon 

I'd been going merrily along, cutting and holding .5mg every 14 days. Well, this last cut 8mg to 7.5mg, I cut at 10 days, trying to go faster. I developed vertigo after 7 days, and updosed back to 8mg right away. Vertigo strikes pure terror in me, and will shut me down straight away, so I figured updose, and the vertigo went away 1/2 hr after. Im struggling about how long to hold my updose. I just may have vertigo, no matter how slow, or how long I hold. It may just be what I have to go thru? Or, I could hold this 8mg awhile longer, and maybe not have vertigo when I cut  I was having no w/drawal sxs until I did that cut after 10 days instead of 14 

[[Sh...]]

Hi Koko, hope you are well. I've being following the Ashton Manual guide and was doing ok until I tried speeding it up to a reduction 4mgs of diazepam  a week. I won't be doing that again. I'm sticking to the guide. I find that herbal medicine is quite beneficial. I know a herbal medicine practitioner and he prescribed a mixture of skullcap, valerian and passion flower tinctures. I use 8-10 mls 3 times a day and also use propranolol 10mgs x 3 a day off the doctor. I also use kratom at night which some believe to be addictive, but I disagree. I just thought I'd share this info with you, I don't know if you want to or have tried herbs. I find them very useful, they get rid of my anxiety and help me sleep. I started out on 30mgs of diazepam, 10mgs of nitrazepam and 15mgs of zopiclone. I'm now down to 16mgs of diazepam, 9mgs 0f nitrazepam and 7.5 of zopiclone

Hi Carl just want to let you know that I experienced severe withdrawal from Katrom worse than the opiates after my mastectomy. Please be careful because what you've read is true I'm not trying to alarm you I'm sharing my experience. Sharon

[[Ju...]]

Hi Koko, hope you are well. I've being following the Ashton Manual guide and was doing ok until I tried speeding it up to a reduction 4mgs of diazepam  a week. I won't be doing that again. I'm sticking to the guide. I find that herbal medicine is quite beneficial. I know a herbal medicine practitioner and he prescribed a mixture of skullcap, valerian and passion flower tinctures. I use 8-10 mls 3 times a day and also use propranolol 10mgs x 3 a day off the doctor. I also use kratom at night which some believe to be addictive, but I disagree. I just thought I'd share this info with you, I don't know if you want to or have tried herbs. I find them very useful, they get rid of my anxiety and help me sleep. I started out on 30mgs of diazepam, 10mgs of nitrazepam and 15mgs of zopiclone. I'm now down to 16mgs of diazepam, 9mgs 0f nitrazepam and 7.5 of zopiclone

Hi Carl just want to let you know that I experienced severe withdrawal from Katrom worse than the opiates after my mastectomy. Please be careful because what you've read is true I'm not trying to alarm you I'm sharing my experience. Sharon

 

Thank you for posting this Sharonlf.  I've watched several of our member's struggle with Kratom addiction and one of them described it as worse than kicking heroin, which they had previously done.

 

Also Carl.  The herbal cocktail that your practioneer has you taking, (Valerion, Skullcap and possibly passion flower), are things that effect GABA receptors.  These are things I personally would not take during benzo withdrawal.  Of course they might make a person feel better, but there can be a cost to doing this in the way of delayed healing, IMO.  GABA receptors seem to heal best when left alone, is what I have observed.

 

Please be careful Carl. 

[[Sh...]]

Well today is cut day and I'm feeling stable this will be the last 1.5 from here down I'm planning to cut 1 mg a week.

Bolders thank you for sharing your experience and yes we are all different. I absolutely expect to be uncomfortable and have sxs throughout my taper. So far I've managed them and adjusted when I've needed to.

I have experience with tapering as this not my first but hoping my last.

Ingrid sorry about your Vertigo I've had it before and I wasn't even on V at the time. I was diagnosed with ear rocks, they are tiny particles of calcium and thy treated me for it by getting them to move, with manipulating my head at one point I was upside down long story. Anyway my question is are you taking Calcium as a supplement? I'm advised since my diagnosis no calcium and at my age 57 most women take calcium. I may ultimately need to take something else but my bone density test was ok so not yes.

Koko I'm hanging in there and thank you for the healing vibes.

I have my grandson tonight 15 months over night. My son and daughter and law will be out late so they're going to spend the night too.

How awesome to all be together as a family for Father's Day. This is why I want my life back and I'm so determined to get this poison out of my system. I'm feeling so alive again and it makes the sxs bearable.

Peace and healing Sharon

[[wi...]]

I have miserable s/x all the time but for now I'm going to do the cut and hold of .5 per 2 weeks.  I felt so bad after the last cut I considered updosing but I've read a lot of this thread and realise that if I want to get off I have to try to push on while the s/x are at all manageable.    I have very bad skin pain (escpecailly on my butt) that is with me all the time but gets so much worse after cutting.  But I also have horrible digestive problems that tells me that I must keep going and expect to feel terrible and I'm going to wait 2 weeks and cut again...    certainly this thread has helped me to face up to the fact that for people like me I cannot go slowly as I need to get off as safely as I possibly can without too much delay.    It does seem that some people just suffer a lot from being on benzo's and also during cuts.  I would so love to feel a little better as I get lower but I will try not to have expectations.  It's really a case of hanging in day by day for me.