Tenacious Tinnitus Club – Ear Pressure, Noise and Hyperacusis

[[Bi...]]

Wow, I think this is the longest I've seen this thread go with no activity  It's the best.

 

For those of us who are sick of waiting and have the extra cash lying around, has anyone thought about stem cell therapy to heal the brain? I'm also on tinnitustalk and that's been the "talk" these days. I know benzo T is a different beast but stem cell therapy can speed brain healing and vesibular damage. I've been trying to find info on it in regards to receptors but I did find some promising info in regards to depression and how it has a positive effect on neuronal growth.

 

I tend to plan for the worst and navigate to the most extreme solution.

 

Hi,  The problem seems to be where to inject those stem cells?

 

There are few medical cases where tinnitus has simply vanished so I think this

article is still very interesting article.

 

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/oct/26-ringing-in-the-ears-goes-much-deeper

 

Hugs Birdman 

[[sn...]]

Hi Birdie and all. Just checking in. Hope things get better.

 

Snowy

[[Ca...]]

Wow, I think this is the longest I've seen this thread go with no activity  It's the best.

 

For those of us who are sick of waiting and have the extra cash lying around, has anyone thought about stem cell therapy to heal the brain? I'm also on tinnitustalk and that's been the "talk" these days. I know benzo T is a different beast but stem cell therapy can speed brain healing and vesibular damage. I've been trying to find info on it in regards to receptors but I did find some promising info in regards to depression and how it has a positive effect on neuronal growth.

 

I tend to plan for the worst and navigate to the most extreme solution.

 

Hi,  The problem seems to be where to inject those stem cells?

 

There are few medical cases where tinnitus has simply vanished so I think this

article is still very interesting article.

 

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/oct/26-ringing-in-the-ears-goes-much-deeper

 

Hugs Birdman 

 

I'm just jacked up in general from antidepressants and have been for a few years now... and now this. I feel like I need a CNS overhaul. The best clinics are in Thailand as they are the only ones who actually treat tinnitus. They also offer the proper adjunct therapies which consists mainly of growth factors. The stem cells should be umbilical cord mesenchymal stem cells, intravenously as well as via lumbar puncture. Quote from the clinic: "The Lumbar puncture injections is the easiest and safest way for the stem cells to reach the Central Nervous System in which the inner ear is connected." They also do jaw injections as well injections surrounding the ears. I doubt that if it had an effect at all, the tinnitus would probably just lower which is fine by me.

 

Anyone want to go to Thailand? Oh, you'll also need at least 15K. 

 

Like you, Birdie, I'm ready to take some drugs and experiment a little. I've been like this now for almost 5 months with little to no change. My doctor insists it's a fluid problem and wants me to take a diuretic (I'm scared that actually might make it worse).

 

I would love to take Nortriptyline but serotogenics are too risky for me since an SSRI started this whole mess, then the benzo... bla bla bla. Been thinking about Baclofen... 

 

 

 

[[Bi...]]

Wow, I think this is the longest I've seen this thread go with no activity  It's the best.

 

For those of us who are sick of waiting and have the extra cash lying around, has anyone thought about stem cell therapy to heal the brain? I'm also on tinnitustalk and that's been the "talk" these days. I know benzo T is a different beast but stem cell therapy can speed brain healing and vesibular damage. I've been trying to find info on it in regards to receptors but I did find some promising info in regards to depression and how it has a positive effect on neuronal growth.

 

I tend to plan for the worst and navigate to the most extreme solution.

 

Hi,  The problem seems to be where to inject those stem cells?

 

There are few medical cases where tinnitus has simply vanished so I think this

article is still very interesting article.

 

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/oct/26-ringing-in-the-ears-goes-much-deeper

 

Hugs Birdman 

 

I'm just jacked up in general from antidepressants and have been for a few years now... and now this. I feel like I need a CNS overhaul. The best clinics are in Thailand as they are the only ones who actually treat tinnitus. They also offer the proper adjunct therapies which consists mainly of growth factors. The stem cells should be umbilical cord mesenchymal stem cells, intravenously as well as via lumbar puncture. Quote from the clinic: "The Lumbar puncture injections is the easiest and safest way for the stem cells to reach the Central Nervous System in which the inner ear is connected." They also do jaw injections as well injections surrounding the ears. I doubt that if it had an effect at all, the tinnitus would probably just lower which is fine by me.

 

Anyone want to go to Thailand? Oh, you'll also need at least 15K. 

 

Like you, Birdie, I'm ready to take some drugs and experiment a little. I've been like this now for almost 5 months with little to no change. My doctor insists it's a fluid problem and wants me to take a diuretic (I'm scared that actually might make it worse).

 

I would love to take Nortriptyline but serotogenics are too risky for me since an SSRI started this whole mess, then the benzo... bla bla bla. Been thinking about Baclofen...

 

Diuretic's are a BIG reason people get tinnitus. 

 

Tinnitus is no great secret.  The brain is well mapped in this MRI age and in order for tinnitus to be "HEARD" or SENSED" or "PERCEPTION"  it must make it out of the Fusiform cells and those are in the DCN.  The only place

 

The treatment of choice are benzo's to make the fusiform cells "go to sleep", go figure???

 

Dr. Robert Aaron Levine's Tinnitus Tutorial

 

 

 

 

[[Bi...]]

Hi Birdie and all. Just checking in. Hope things get better.

 

Snowy

 

Hi Snowy,  I'm good

[Guest [...]]

Hey everyone...Have a question: of course Tinnitus started when I cold turkeyed Ativan and reinstating of course didn't help. I have now tapered from 2 mgs to .75 mgs. Here is my question:

Though I don't have high blood pressure or high heart rate I do enjoy experience a "hard" heartbeat and every once in a while it feels like it's "squeezing." Long story short...Today I was put on metoprolol xr, 25mg once daily. Will it make my ears worse or louder? I have times where I am kind of not letting the loud T bother me as much, some days it's quieter.

[[Ca...]]

Wow, I think this is the longest I've seen this thread go with no activity  It's the best.

 

For those of us who are sick of waiting and have the extra cash lying around, has anyone thought about stem cell therapy to heal the brain? I'm also on tinnitustalk and that's been the "talk" these days. I know benzo T is a different beast but stem cell therapy can speed brain healing and vesibular damage. I've been trying to find info on it in regards to receptors but I did find some promising info in regards to depression and how it has a positive effect on neuronal growth.

 

I tend to plan for the worst and navigate to the most extreme solution.

 

Hi,  The problem seems to be where to inject those stem cells?

 

There are few medical cases where tinnitus has simply vanished so I think this

article is still very interesting article.

 

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/oct/26-ringing-in-the-ears-goes-much-deeper

 

Hugs Birdman 

 

I'm just jacked up in general from antidepressants and have been for a few years now... and now this. I feel like I need a CNS overhaul. The best clinics are in Thailand as they are the only ones who actually treat tinnitus. They also offer the proper adjunct therapies which consists mainly of growth factors. The stem cells should be umbilical cord mesenchymal stem cells, intravenously as well as via lumbar puncture. Quote from the clinic: "The Lumbar puncture injections is the easiest and safest way for the stem cells to reach the Central Nervous System in which the inner ear is connected." They also do jaw injections as well injections surrounding the ears. I doubt that if it had an effect at all, the tinnitus would probably just lower which is fine by me.

 

Anyone want to go to Thailand? Oh, you'll also need at least 15K. 

 

Like you, Birdie, I'm ready to take some drugs and experiment a little. I've been like this now for almost 5 months with little to no change. My doctor insists it's a fluid problem and wants me to take a diuretic (I'm scared that actually might make it worse).

 

I would love to take Nortriptyline but serotogenics are too risky for me since an SSRI started this whole mess, then the benzo... bla bla bla. Been thinking about Baclofen...

 

Diuretic's are a BIG reason people get tinnitus. 

 

Tinnitus is no great secret.  The brain is well mapped in this MRI age and in order for tinnitus to be "HEARD" or SENSED" or "PERCEPTION"  it must make it out of the Fusiform cells and those are in the DCN.  The only place

 

The treatment of choice are benzo's to make the fusiform cells "go to sleep", go figure???

 

Dr. Robert Aaron Levine's Tinnitus Tutorial

 

Ha ha, of course freakin' benzos would do the trick! The weird thing was that I don't think it really helped me. I came off of 2 weeks 5mg Valium, got the T, reinstated 3x the dose in Klonopin which was no help. I guess I really did some damage or I'm just having a big serotonin issue from the SSRI incident.

 

Well, you guys have encouraged me to be a little more patient with this. I'm at 5 months and I know many of you have dealt with this much longer.

 

I'm scared of the diuretic for sure and I may not take it but there is a small part of me that wonders if it really might be fluid.

[[Bi...]]

Wow, I think this is the longest I've seen this thread go with no activity  It's the best.

 

For those of us who are sick of waiting and have the extra cash lying around, has anyone thought about stem cell therapy to heal the brain? I'm also on tinnitustalk and that's been the "talk" these days. I know benzo T is a different beast but stem cell therapy can speed brain healing and vesibular damage. I've been trying to find info on it in regards to receptors but I did find some promising info in regards to depression and how it has a positive effect on neuronal growth.

 

I tend to plan for the worst and navigate to the most extreme solution.

 

Hi,  The problem seems to be where to inject those stem cells?

 

There are few medical cases where tinnitus has simply vanished so I think this

article is still very interesting article.

 

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/oct/26-ringing-in-the-ears-goes-much-deeper

 

Hugs Birdman 

 

I'm just jacked up in general from antidepressants and have been for a few years now... and now this. I feel like I need a CNS overhaul. The best clinics are in Thailand as they are the only ones who actually treat tinnitus. They also offer the proper adjunct therapies which consists mainly of growth factors. The stem cells should be umbilical cord mesenchymal stem cells, intravenously as well as via lumbar puncture. Quote from the clinic: "The Lumbar puncture injections is the easiest and safest way for the stem cells to reach the Central Nervous System in which the inner ear is connected." They also do jaw injections as well injections surrounding the ears. I doubt that if it had an effect at all, the tinnitus would probably just lower which is fine by me.

 

Anyone want to go to Thailand? Oh, you'll also need at least 15K. 

 

Like you, Birdie, I'm ready to take some drugs and experiment a little. I've been like this now for almost 5 months with little to no change. My doctor insists it's a fluid problem and wants me to take a diuretic (I'm scared that actually might make it worse).

 

I would love to take Nortriptyline but serotogenics are too risky for me since an SSRI started this whole mess, then the benzo... bla bla bla. Been thinking about Baclofen...

 

Diuretic's are a BIG reason people get tinnitus. 

 

Tinnitus is no great secret.  The brain is well mapped in this MRI age and in order for tinnitus to be "HEARD" or SENSED" or "PERCEPTION"  it must make it out of the Fusiform cells and those are in the DCN.  The only place

 

The treatment of choice are benzo's to make the fusiform cells "go to sleep", go figure???

 

Dr. Robert Aaron Levine's Tinnitus Tutorial

 

Ha ha, of course freakin' benzos would do the trick! The weird thing was that I don't think it really helped me. I came off of 2 weeks 5mg Valium, got the T, reinstated 3x the dose in Klonopin which was no help. I guess I really did some damage or I'm just having a big serotonin issue from the SSRI incident.

 

Well, you guys have encouraged me to be a little more patient with this. I'm at 5 months and I know many of you have dealt with this much longer.

 

I'm scared of the diuretic for sure and I may not take it but there is a small part of me that wonders if it really might be fluid.

 

Your story is so familiar.  It's the same story I have heard in hundreds of forums from thousands of people. They all say this: "Once the tinnitus starts it never stops"    Now that sounds scary but your not alone and it does get better with time so relax and let time be your friend but do not stop living while you heal. 

 

Since I do not have a million dollar lab all I can do is read 10,000 terraquads of data and mull it around in my brain and see what I can come up with.

 

Possibilities:

 

#1. Any use of benzo's that are sufficient enough to make tinnitus start up was sufficient to change the amount of fusiform cells and over-produce them called (up-regulation) which is why most people report hyperacusis and as that fades the tinnitus remains and becomes the dominant torture mechanism for the phantom noise. .

 

Ideas: Electro shock treatment of the DCN, or drugs the kill off fusiform cells such as gentamicin, streptomycin, and neomycin.

 

Or if your lucky enough to get a stroke that kills off just the right part of your brain.

This guy got tinnitus while riding a tractor and damaging his tiny cochlear hair cells but later had a mini stroke

in the mid brain and the tinnitus ended.  SO WHAT THE HECK does lack of sensory inputs by tiny hair cells/ hearing damage have to do with the inner brain!!!  Once the inner brain was burned out (damaged by the stroke) the tinnitus stopped!

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/oct/26-ringing-in-the-ears-goes-much-deeper.

 

I am pretty sure we do not need stem cells to re grow anything. We need to kill off highly targeted cells instead. The problem is the DCN and fusiform cells up regulated at record speeds while on benzo's. 

Maybe the reasons alcoholics do not get tinnitus for assaulting the same brain structures and receptor complexes is that alcohol kills off the fusiform cells before they ever get a chance to up-regulate. Chalk one up for brain damage in just the right spot at the right times!

 

I am just "thinking out loud" but I think I am getting closer.  ( Do not worry, you will not read a news story about a girl who died with electrical cords taped too her temples while drinking a bottle of Johnnie Walker Odyssey Scotch  )

 

 

 

[[Bi...]]

no further changes occur [103]. Tinnitus-related changes in auditory-somatosensory integration by the fusiform cells include increased long-term potentiation [41], likely mediated by the increased non-auditory glutamatergic innervation after cochlear damage [75, 76]. Importantly, animals that did not develop tinnitus instead displayed increased long-term depression at fusiform synapses. The differences between animals with tinnitus, showing more long-term potentiation and those without tinnitus, showing more long-term depression, involve a complex interplay between multiple mechanisms involved in homeostatic and timing dependent plasticity. Given the significant alterations in processing involved in somatosensory integration in the CN, which are transmitted to the auditory cortex [104], it is not surprising that a majority of tinnitus sufferers can manipulate the intensity and frequency of their tinnitus by stimulating or moving their face and neck [105, 106], regions providing trigeminal and dorsal column inputs to the CN [99, 107, 108]. This so-called “somatosensory tinnitus” or “somatic tinnitus” occurs in up to two thirds of humans with tinnitus [105, 106]. 

 

REF;

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895692/

[[Ca...]]

no further changes occur [103]. Tinnitus-related changes in auditory-somatosensory integration by the fusiform cells include increased long-term potentiation [41], likely mediated by the increased non-auditory glutamatergic innervation after cochlear damage [75, 76]. Importantly, animals that did not develop tinnitus instead displayed increased long-term depression at fusiform synapses. The differences between animals with tinnitus, showing more long-term potentiation and those without tinnitus, showing more long-term depression, involve a complex interplay between multiple mechanisms involved in homeostatic and timing dependent plasticity. Given the significant alterations in processing involved in somatosensory integration in the CN, which are transmitted to the auditory cortex [104], it is not surprising that a majority of tinnitus sufferers can manipulate the intensity and frequency of their tinnitus by stimulating or moving their face and neck [105, 106], regions providing trigeminal and dorsal column inputs to the CN [99, 107, 108]. This so-called “somatosensory tinnitus” or “somatic tinnitus” occurs in up to two thirds of humans with tinnitus [105, 106]. 

 

REF;

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895692/

 

This is very informative and barely looked at by research. Everything about tinnitus always goes back to the hair cells and that's it.

 

I guess I don't know what to do with this though, if antibiotics kill the fusiform cells, then why do they cause T? What do you think happens for people the people who get benzo T and it goes away 5 years or more? Do these cells just start getting less abundant?

[[Bi...]]

no further changes occur [103]. Tinnitus-related changes in auditory-somatosensory integration by the fusiform cells include increased long-term potentiation [41], likely mediated by the increased non-auditory glutamatergic innervation after cochlear damage [75, 76]. Importantly, animals that did not develop tinnitus instead displayed increased long-term depression at fusiform synapses. The differences between animals with tinnitus, showing more long-term potentiation and those without tinnitus, showing more long-term depression, involve a complex interplay between multiple mechanisms involved in homeostatic and timing dependent plasticity. Given the significant alterations in processing involved in somatosensory integration in the CN, which are transmitted to the auditory cortex [104], it is not surprising that a majority of tinnitus sufferers can manipulate the intensity and frequency of their tinnitus by stimulating or moving their face and neck [105, 106], regions providing trigeminal and dorsal column inputs to the CN [99, 107, 108]. This so-called “somatosensory tinnitus” or “somatic tinnitus” occurs in up to two thirds of humans with tinnitus [105, 106]. 

 

REF;

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895692/

 

This is very informative and barely looked at by research. Everything about tinnitus always goes back to the hair cells and that's it.

 

I guess I don't know what to do with this though, if antibiotics kill the fusiform cells, then why do they cause T? What do you think happens for people the people who get benzo T and it goes away 5 years or more? Do these cells just start getting less abundant?

 

From all the data I have read I think that the Cartwheel and Fusiform Cells have actually been up-regulated in people with long term benzo usage.

 

The reason I think this is that in the over 18 cases where people have reported 100% healing from their tinnitus in the blink of an eye involved damage to the Middle-Brain. 

68% by stroke and 32% by head trauma including electrical shocks to the brain by people who work with electricity.

 

After the stroke or head trauma their tinnitus vanished in the blink of an eye.  It's hard to up-regulate a receptor but an up-regulated or over activated group can be shutdown very quick with a stroke or even a baseball bat

I am slowly coming to the conclusion tinnitus is a large group of up-regulated receptors in the mid brain, inside namely these:

 

Putamen, basal ganglia,  DCN, TGN, cingulate cortex, amygdala, hippocampus, nucleus accumbens, insula, parietal cortex and thalamus.

 

Here is another good-read if you enjoyed the last one -

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4748084/

 

Bird

 

 

 

 

 

[[Gr...]]

Hi Birdman, just wondering when exactly you jumped? Has your tinnitus changed much since then?

[[Bi...]]

Hi Birdman, just wondering when exactly you jumped? Has your tinnitus changed much since then?

 

Hi Grape   I jumped 7 times now. Each time the tinnitus got to very high levels months later.  Each time I did a low level reinstate with a large bolus dose to jump-start the taper and it slowly got better on very small doses of long acting benzo's. My favorites have been low dose Klonopin or Librium.  The longer I stayed on Librium the better the tinnitus gets so there was no chance of tolerance if I felt better with every new passing month.

Keep in mind I am doing this because of the tinnitus and no other reason or symptom. I do not suffer from anxiety. I used benzo's for sleep in the beginning. 

Even today this roller-coaster-loving-girl can take anxiety and throw 10 triple strength expressoes at it and just laugh but the tinnitus is pure torture, I'd rather be whipped all day preferably.

I think the librium is slowing down the self sustaining tinnitus / FEED-BACK loop in the DCN since tinnitus is the BRAIN RINGING.

At this point at 10mg Lib per week it's gone.  I am guessing if I jump again and do it "ASHTON" style the feedback loop will start ringing like a bell again.

I am actually down to 9.97mg L per week now (dosing twice a week).  I am planning on a 2 to 4 year long taper and this time "listening to my tinnitus" 

Listening to my body was a great taper choice in general but not for tinnitus!  For tinnitus the speed of taper is  "LISTEN TO YOUR TINNITUS" 

 

 

Dr. Robert Aaron Levine's Tinnitus Tutorial is a great explanation of how benzo's can stop and start tinnitus.  It's also interesting to note that people who have never taken a benzo have crippling tinnitus too but keep in mind we do not know the other drug or genetic history of these people.

 

Dr. Robert Aaron Levine's Tinnitus Tutorial

 

 

 

 

[[Ca...]]

no further changes occur [103]. Tinnitus-related changes in auditory-somatosensory integration by the fusiform cells include increased long-term potentiation [41], likely mediated by the increased non-auditory glutamatergic innervation after cochlear damage [75, 76]. Importantly, animals that did not develop tinnitus instead displayed increased long-term depression at fusiform synapses. The differences between animals with tinnitus, showing more long-term potentiation and those without tinnitus, showing more long-term depression, involve a complex interplay between multiple mechanisms involved in homeostatic and timing dependent plasticity. Given the significant alterations in processing involved in somatosensory integration in the CN, which are transmitted to the auditory cortex [104], it is not surprising that a majority of tinnitus sufferers can manipulate the intensity and frequency of their tinnitus by stimulating or moving their face and neck [105, 106], regions providing trigeminal and dorsal column inputs to the CN [99, 107, 108]. This so-called “somatosensory tinnitus” or “somatic tinnitus” occurs in up to two thirds of humans with tinnitus [105, 106]. 

 

REF;

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895692/

 

This is very informative and barely looked at by research. Everything about tinnitus always goes back to the hair cells and that's it.

 

I guess I don't know what to do with this though, if antibiotics kill the fusiform cells, then why do they cause T? What do you think happens for people the people who get benzo T and it goes away 5 years or more? Do these cells just start getting less abundant?

 

From all the data I have read I think that the Cartwheel and Fusiform Cells have actually been up-regulated in people with long term benzo usage.

 

The reason I think this is that in the over 18 cases where people have reported 100% healing from their tinnitus in the blink of an eye involved damage to the Middle-Brain. 

68% by stroke and 32% by head trauma including electrical shocks to the brain by people who work with electricity.

 

After the stroke or head trauma their tinnitus vanished in the blink of an eye.  It's hard to up-regulate a receptor but an up-regulated or over activated group can be shutdown very quick with a stroke or even a baseball bat

I am slowly coming to the conclusion tinnitus is a large group of up-regulated receptors in the mid brain, inside namely these:

 

Putamen, basal ganglia,  DCN, TGN, cingulate cortex, amygdala, hippocampus, nucleus accumbens, insula, parietal cortex and thalamus.

 

Here is another good-read if you enjoyed the last one -

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4748084/

 

Bird

I think deep brain stimulation does something similar to the baseball bat theory but instead of actually damaging the area, it just "freaks it out".

[[Bi...]]

no further changes occur [103]. Tinnitus-related changes in auditory-somatosensory integration by the fusiform cells include increased long-term potentiation [41], likely mediated by the increased non-auditory glutamatergic innervation after cochlear damage [75, 76]. Importantly, animals that did not develop tinnitus instead displayed increased long-term depression at fusiform synapses. The differences between animals with tinnitus, showing more long-term potentiation and those without tinnitus, showing more long-term depression, involve a complex interplay between multiple mechanisms involved in homeostatic and timing dependent plasticity. Given the significant alterations in processing involved in somatosensory integration in the CN, which are transmitted to the auditory cortex [104], it is not surprising that a majority of tinnitus sufferers can manipulate the intensity and frequency of their tinnitus by stimulating or moving their face and neck [105, 106], regions providing trigeminal and dorsal column inputs to the CN [99, 107, 108]. This so-called “somatosensory tinnitus” or “somatic tinnitus” occurs in up to two thirds of humans with tinnitus [105, 106]. 

 

REF;

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895692/

 

This is very informative and barely looked at by research. Everything about tinnitus always goes back to the hair cells and that's it.

 

I guess I don't know what to do with this though, if antibiotics kill the fusiform cells, then why do they cause T? What do you think happens for people the people who get benzo T and it goes away 5 years or more? Do these cells just start getting less abundant?

 

From all the data I have read I think that the Cartwheel and Fusiform Cells have actually been up-regulated in people with long term benzo usage.

 

The reason I think this is that in the over 18 cases where people have reported 100% healing from their tinnitus in the blink of an eye involved damage to the Middle-Brain. 

68% by stroke and 32% by head trauma including electrical shocks to the brain by people who work with electricity.

 

After the stroke or head trauma their tinnitus vanished in the blink of an eye.  It's hard to up-regulate a receptor but an up-regulated or over activated group can be shutdown very quick with a stroke or even a baseball bat

I am slowly coming to the conclusion tinnitus is a large group of up-regulated receptors in the mid brain, inside namely these:

 

Putamen, basal ganglia,  DCN, TGN, cingulate cortex, amygdala, hippocampus, nucleus accumbens, insula, parietal cortex and thalamus.

 

Here is another good-read if you enjoyed the last one -

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4748084/

 

Bird

I think deep brain stimulation does something similar to the baseball bat theory but instead of actually damaging the area, it just "freaks it out".

Good point. 

I talked to an NP who worked at an electro-shock clinic and she said one of the side effects of EST was that it ended tinnitus in many patients. 

In fact the doctor there said the "LACK OF BRAIN SOUND" is what made people calmer after treatment. 

The NP also said that some people without tinnitus developed low-grade tinnitus after EST but it cleared in 3 to 6 months.

 

The brain is weird I will give it that.

 

I keep doing Google researches daily and these cases of people with Tinnitus for 20 to 50 years that lose it just seconds after a BRAIN-INCIDENT tells me I am on the right track.

 

Maybe tonight I'll give the baseball bat a go,

 

[[Gr...]]

Hi Birdman, just wondering when exactly you jumped? Has your tinnitus changed much since then?

 

Hi Grape   I jumped 7 times now. Each time the tinnitus got to very high levels months later.  Each time I did a low level reinstate with a large bolus dose to jump-start the taper and it slowly got better on very small doses of long acting benzo's. My favorites have been low dose Klonopin or Librium.  The longer I stayed on Librium the better the tinnitus gets so there was no chance of tolerance if I felt better with every new passing month.

Keep in mind I am doing this because of the tinnitus and no other reason or symptom. I do not suffer from anxiety. I used benzo's for sleep in the beginning. 

Even today this roller-coaster-loving-girl can take anxiety and throw 10 triple strength expressoes at it and just laugh but the tinnitus is pure torture, I'd rather be whipped all day preferably.

I think the librium is slowing down the self sustaining tinnitus / FEED-BACK loop in the DCN since tinnitus is the BRAIN RINGING.

At this point at 10mg Lib per week it's gone.  I am guessing if I jump again and do it "ASHTON" style the feedback loop will start ringing like a bell again.

I am actually down to 9.97mg L per week now (dosing twice a week).  I am planning on a 2 to 4 year long taper and this time "listening to my tinnitus" 

Listening to my body was a great taper choice in general but not for tinnitus!  For tinnitus the speed of taper is  "LISTEN TO YOUR TINNITUS" 

 

 

Dr. Robert Aaron Levine's Tinnitus Tutorial is a great explanation of how benzo's can stop and start tinnitus.  It's also interesting to note that people who have never taken a benzo have crippling tinnitus too but keep in mind we do not know the other drug or genetic history of these people.

 

Dr. Robert Aaron Levine's Tinnitus Tutorial

Wow, SEVEN times?  .

I envy that fact that librium has silenced your tinnitus. I've had severe tinnitus since 2011, I can't imagine what it must be like to hear silence again. I got tinnitus due to a sudden hearing loss. I was taking no meds at the time. I started benzos and sleeping pills in order to cope with the tinnitus. They helped somewhat, they calmed me down and let me sleep at night. But I wanted to get off them once I realized I was physically dependent, especially after being on them for years. They never stopped the noise for me, just took the edge off.

[[Bi...]]

Hi Birdman, just wondering when exactly you jumped? Has your tinnitus changed much since then?

 

Hi Grape   I jumped 7 times now. Each time the tinnitus got to very high levels months later.  Each time I did a low level reinstate with a large bolus dose to jump-start the taper and it slowly got better on very small doses of long acting benzo's. My favorites have been low dose Klonopin or Librium.  The longer I stayed on Librium the better the tinnitus gets so there was no chance of tolerance if I felt better with every new passing month.

Keep in mind I am doing this because of the tinnitus and no other reason or symptom. I do not suffer from anxiety. I used benzo's for sleep in the beginning. 

Even today this roller-coaster-loving-girl can take anxiety and throw 10 triple strength expressoes at it and just laugh but the tinnitus is pure torture, I'd rather be whipped all day preferably.

I think the librium is slowing down the self sustaining tinnitus / FEED-BACK loop in the DCN since tinnitus is the BRAIN RINGING.

At this point at 10mg Lib per week it's gone.  I am guessing if I jump again and do it "ASHTON" style the feedback loop will start ringing like a bell again.

I am actually down to 9.97mg L per week now (dosing twice a week).  I am planning on a 2 to 4 year long taper and this time "listening to my tinnitus" 

Listening to my body was a great taper choice in general but not for tinnitus!  For tinnitus the speed of taper is  "LISTEN TO YOUR TINNITUS" 

 

 

Dr. Robert Aaron Levine's Tinnitus Tutorial is a great explanation of how benzo's can stop and start tinnitus.  It's also interesting to note that people who have never taken a benzo have crippling tinnitus too but keep in mind we do not know the other drug or genetic history of these people.

 

Dr. Robert Aaron Levine's Tinnitus Tutorial

Wow, SEVEN times?  .

I envy that fact that librium has silenced your tinnitus. I've had severe tinnitus since 2011, I can't imagine what it must be like to hear silence again. I got tinnitus due to a sudden hearing loss. I was taking no meds at the time. I started benzos and sleeping pills in order to cope with the tinnitus. They helped somewhat, they calmed me down and let me sleep at night. But I wanted to get off them once I realized I was physically dependent, especially after being on them for years. They never stopped the noise for me, just took the edge off.

 

I think maybe since my Tinnitus was 100% benzo induced that's the difference.

[[Ca...]]

no further changes occur [103]. Tinnitus-related changes in auditory-somatosensory integration by the fusiform cells include increased long-term potentiation [41], likely mediated by the increased non-auditory glutamatergic innervation after cochlear damage [75, 76]. Importantly, animals that did not develop tinnitus instead displayed increased long-term depression at fusiform synapses. The differences between animals with tinnitus, showing more long-term potentiation and those without tinnitus, showing more long-term depression, involve a complex interplay between multiple mechanisms involved in homeostatic and timing dependent plasticity. Given the significant alterations in processing involved in somatosensory integration in the CN, which are transmitted to the auditory cortex [104], it is not surprising that a majority of tinnitus sufferers can manipulate the intensity and frequency of their tinnitus by stimulating or moving their face and neck [105, 106], regions providing trigeminal and dorsal column inputs to the CN [99, 107, 108]. This so-called “somatosensory tinnitus” or “somatic tinnitus” occurs in up to two thirds of humans with tinnitus [105, 106]. 

 

REF;

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895692/

 

This is very informative and barely looked at by research. Everything about tinnitus always goes back to the hair cells and that's it.

 

I guess I don't know what to do with this though, if antibiotics kill the fusiform cells, then why do they cause T? What do you think happens for people the people who get benzo T and it goes away 5 years or more? Do these cells just start getting less abundant?

 

From all the data I have read I think that the Cartwheel and Fusiform Cells have actually been up-regulated in people with long term benzo usage.

 

The reason I think this is that in the over 18 cases where people have reported 100% healing from their tinnitus in the blink of an eye involved damage to the Middle-Brain. 

68% by stroke and 32% by head trauma including electrical shocks to the brain by people who work with electricity.

 

After the stroke or head trauma their tinnitus vanished in the blink of an eye.  It's hard to up-regulate a receptor but an up-regulated or over activated group can be shutdown very quick with a stroke or even a baseball bat

I am slowly coming to the conclusion tinnitus is a large group of up-regulated receptors in the mid brain, inside namely these:

 

Putamen, basal ganglia,  DCN, TGN, cingulate cortex, amygdala, hippocampus, nucleus accumbens, insula, parietal cortex and thalamus.

 

Here is another good-read if you enjoyed the last one -

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4748084/

 

Bird

Probably why the anticholinergics had worked for you in the past.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23721928

 

This ALSO might be the reason for one day high and one day low (alternating tinnitus) - we get a burst of acetylcholine, it activates the fusiform cells (high day), then the day after, the cells are exhausted causing a (low day). Just guessing here...

[[Bi...]]

no further changes occur [103]. Tinnitus-related changes in auditory-somatosensory integration by the fusiform cells include increased long-term potentiation [41], likely mediated by the increased non-auditory glutamatergic innervation after cochlear damage [75, 76]. Importantly, animals that did not develop tinnitus instead displayed increased long-term depression at fusiform synapses. The differences between animals with tinnitus, showing more long-term potentiation and those without tinnitus, showing more long-term depression, involve a complex interplay between multiple mechanisms involved in homeostatic and timing dependent plasticity. Given the significant alterations in processing involved in somatosensory integration in the CN, which are transmitted to the auditory cortex [104], it is not surprising that a majority of tinnitus sufferers can manipulate the intensity and frequency of their tinnitus by stimulating or moving their face and neck [105, 106], regions providing trigeminal and dorsal column inputs to the CN [99, 107, 108]. This so-called “somatosensory tinnitus” or “somatic tinnitus” occurs in up to two thirds of humans with tinnitus [105, 106]. 

 

REF;

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4895692/

 

This is very informative and barely looked at by research. Everything about tinnitus always goes back to the hair cells and that's it.

 

I guess I don't know what to do with this though, if antibiotics kill the fusiform cells, then why do they cause T? What do you think happens for people the people who get benzo T and it goes away 5 years or more? Do these cells just start getting less abundant?

 

From all the data I have read I think that the Cartwheel and Fusiform Cells have actually been up-regulated in people with long term benzo usage.

 

The reason I think this is that in the over 18 cases where people have reported 100% healing from their tinnitus in the blink of an eye involved damage to the Middle-Brain. 

68% by stroke and 32% by head trauma including electrical shocks to the brain by people who work with electricity.

 

After the stroke or head trauma their tinnitus vanished in the blink of an eye.  It's hard to up-regulate a receptor but an up-regulated or over activated group can be shutdown very quick with a stroke or even a baseball bat

I am slowly coming to the conclusion tinnitus is a large group of up-regulated receptors in the mid brain, inside namely these:

 

Putamen, basal ganglia,  DCN, TGN, cingulate cortex, amygdala, hippocampus, nucleus accumbens, insula, parietal cortex and thalamus.

 

Here is another good-read if you enjoyed the last one -

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4748084/

 

Bird

Probably why the anticholinergics had worked for you in the past.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23721928

 

This ALSO might be the reason for one day high and one day low (alternating tinnitus) - we get a burst of acetylcholine, it activates the fusiform cells (high day), then the day after, the cells are exhausted causing a (low day). Just guessing here...

 

True!  Interesting Cal!  Cholinergic agonists mimic the actions of acetylcholine so maybe I should try some nicatin gun and see what happens.  I have not had nicatin is 14 years so that may be a very interesting experiment!  I was a 'weekend-smoker' for 10 years of my life.

 

Also the Vagus nerve, tinnitus and acetylcholine all share many common pathways.

 

I wonder???

 

[[Ca...]]

I have thought of the nicotine gum but I was too scared of the norepinephrine rush which might be activating. However, overall, I'm not in any kind of withdrawal or reaction state at this point (mainly just suffering with my ear injuries) so I might try it. Let me know if you do Bird.

[[Bi...]]

I have thought of the nicotine gum but I was too scared of the norepinephrine rush which might be activating. However, overall, I'm not in any kind of withdrawal or reaction state at this point (mainly just suffering with my ear injuries) so I might try it. Let me know if you do Bird.

 

Since nicotine is very relaxing and withdrawal causes excitation it may work. I bet I would be calming but then we have a 'new-monkey' on our backs.

I would be cool if it stimulated or balanced the chemistry of cart wheel cells in the DCN thus denying an exit pathway for the fusiform cells to emit tinnitus.  All I can do is try but I am not going shopping for 2 more weeks.

[[Ca...]]

I have thought of the nicotine gum but I was too scared of the norepinephrine rush which might be activating. However, overall, I'm not in any kind of withdrawal or reaction state at this point (mainly just suffering with my ear injuries) so I might try it. Let me know if you do Bird.

 

Since nicotine is very relaxing and withdrawal causes excitation it may work. I bet I would be calming but then we have a 'new-monkey' on our backs.

I would be cool if it stimulated or balanced the chemistry of cart wheel cells in the DCN thus denying an exit pathway for the fusiform cells to emit tinnitus.  All I can do is try but I am not going shopping for 2 more weeks.

I was just researching it some more and saw an instance where it caused someone to have T. Please be careful and research it a bit more if you decide to try it.

[[co...]]

I used to smoke then began vaping nicotine, then quit completely. I recently began vaping CBD and picked up the old nicotine vaping habit again. It does CHANGE my tinnitus but not in any positive way I've been able to notice. I can actually feel the tinnitus fluctuating when I vape nicotine. But then it's back to same old, same old.

[[Ca...]]

I used to smoke then began vaping nicotine, then quit completely. I recently began vaping CBD and picked up the old nicotine vaping habit again. It does CHANGE my tinnitus but not in any positive way I've been able to notice. I can actually feel the tinnitus fluctuating when I vape nicotine. But then it's back to same old, same old.

Interesting, so the CBD oil made it worse and the nicotine helped slightly but only temporarily?

[[co...]]

No, I love the CBD for anxiety but I couldn't stand the flavor and just having the vaporizer in my hand made me start vaping nicotine again; old habits die hard. The CBD had no effect on my tinnitus but the nicotine does, it's just not getting better. The nicotine just causes fluctuation in my tinnitus.