whats it like after the final pill?

[[Gu...]]

No offense taken Benzy.

 

I'm just being honest. Both sides of the debate needs to be explored and the fact is that some people just aren't getting better off benzo's. It seems cruel to mislead people here. Have you seen the recent thread 'losing all hope at 13 months'?

 

The objective evidence does suggest that some of us are putting ourselves through absolute hell unnecessarily and ultimately, in vain.

 

People coming here for advice should atleast have the possibility of staying on raised. Getting off benzo's isn't for everyone.

 

I only wish someone had been so upfront with me and maybe I wouldn't be in the state I'm in now.

 

Morreweg, Ich liebe dich but I don't like your plane flight analogy.

 

Come on. With a flight from Ho Chi Minh to Sydney I know exactly where and when I will arrive, barring a disaster. Anyone can put up with a long flight because they know they're gonna get there. Benzo wd is very different.

 

The only truthful prognosis you can give is; stay off benzo's long enough, maybe years, and you might or might not get better. There are no guarantees.

I'll take the plane flight.

[[Ch...]]

No offense taken Benzy.

 

I'm just being honest. Both sides of the debate needs to be explored and the fact is that some people just aren't getting better off benzo's. It seems cruel to mislead people here. Have you seen the recent thread 'losing all hope at 13 months'?

 

The objective evidence does suggest that some of us are putting ourselves through absolute hell unnecessarily and ultimately, in vain.

 

People coming here for advice should atleast have the possibility of staying on raised. Getting off benzo's isn't for everyone.

 

I only wish someone had been so upfront with me and maybe I wouldn't be in the state I'm in now.

 

Morreweg, Ich liebe dich but I don't like your plane flight analogy.

 

Come on. With a flight from Ho Chi Minh to Sydney I know exactly where and when I will arrive, barring a disaster. Anyone can put up with a long flight because they know they're gonna get there. Benzo wd is very different.

 

The only truthful prognosis you can give is; stay off benzo's long enough, maybe years, and you might or might not get better. There are no guarantees.

I'll take the plane flight.

Gussy, you did a very rapid taper at the end.  That may well account for the state you're in now. 

 

I was on prescription benzos for 31 years, tapered for nine months and am fully functional now.  Getting off benzos is the best thing I ever did for myself…ever.  They down-regulate GABA receptors and wreak havoc on our central nervous systems. 

 

Benzodiazepine use in the elderly is a serious matter.  Google it.  Or read I Love Life's intro from yesterday:  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=95327.msg1219274#msg1219274

 

Challis

[[fr...]]

It's fine to tell our personal stories but using ourselves as an example to scare someone into staying on is wrong. People need encouragement. A positive mindset can help to get someone through this.

 

At my worst point I realized it was my way of thinking and fear that was the worst problem. Telling myself that things will be okay (even if they turn out not to be) is much better than scaring myself and helps me get through the bad times.

 

If you have made a commitment to see this through then do it with courage and a positive mindset. You must take it one day at a time as with any other big challenge. 

[[Gu...]]

Thanks Challis.

 

Your experience gives me a glimmer of hope. I think the process is far tougher on people who still felt good and functional on benzo's and then had their lives torn asunder when they came off. Its not just me, its everyone close to me that has suffered. My mother actually said 'Angus, for heaven sake, just get back on valium. You were so much better'. And I was.

 

Those who were already sick on benzo's have nothing to lose so that would ease their journey in a way.

[[Di...]]

Well, for me staying on valium was just never an option, because I could see into the future. I started out on around 2mg which worked very well for my menopausal insomnia, but within 6 months I had already increased that to 5mg (even up to 7mg at times). So I knew that if I had more than doubled my dose in such a short period of time, to get the same effect, the future did not look rosey for me.  Had I not started my taper from 5mg just over 12 months ago, goodness knows what dose I would be on now - and it's too scarey for me to even think about.

 

Of course everyone's experience is going to be different, and for some people maybe staying on a benzo is what they have to do. My mother is in her 80s and she will be on a benzo for what's left of her life because to take her off it would be too cruel, but for younger people I honestly don't see that it is a viable option. Anyway, just my opinion. I guess it just comes down to how you choose to taper. Some tapers are less desirable than others.

[[Be...]]

I understand that, and yes Ive seen the threads, several of them, this is bothering me too, theres quite a few members currently that either are stating theyre continuing using benzos, sitting at their current doses for extended periods, updosing, rescue dosing and reinstating.....

did I just miss all those threads/posts before? Ive been here around a year and I dont remember seeing this many members doing these things...

 

I know you need a support system and your story is relevant, but for a support site for getting off benzos it makes me uneasy to read things like :

 

If your doing ok on benzo's I would say stay on. There's nothing good about coming off them. You don't 'get your life back' after jumping, you lose it.

 

but still I dont know what the answer is to this, I just think since its your own story, on a benzo withdrawal site, maybe you should/could leave these types of statements out, or just keep them in your own blog/log maybe..

[[Ch...]]

Thanks Challis.

 

Your experience gives me a glimmer of hope. I think the process is far tougher on people who still felt good and functional on benzo's and then had their lives torn asunder when they came off. Its not just me, its everyone close to me that has suffered. My mother actually said 'Angus, for heaven sake, just get back on valium. You were so much better'. And I was.

 

Those who were already sick on benzo's have nothing to lose so that would ease their journey in a way.

 

My mother was murdered in a home invasion in my childhood home ten years ago.  I testified in the three ensuing murder trials and went through a divorce and custody battle at the same time.  Xanax was the only thing that stopped the crying and made me functional again.

 

I was totally functional on Xanax and held down a grueling K-1 combo teaching job for years before retiring (age, not benzos).  I was highly effective, highly respected and my classroom kids were happy and well educated in my classroom.  However, I carried a pink Xanax pill in my pocket in terror that the last one would wear off and my 'anxiety' would return.  I had no clue my anxiety was caused by the Xanax, not helped by the Xanax.  I have little to no anxiety these days and I'm not dependent on any psych medication and never will be again.

 

In order to stay functional on Xanax, however, I had to increase my dose over the years… from .25 as needed to 2 mg and needing more ten years later.  It would only keep escalating and my doctor wouldn't up my dose any further.  Thank goodness.

 

No one realizes the difference between being benzo dependent and benzo free until they get there. 

 

I hope for that freedom for you, Gussy.  Because until we are benzo free we are not free at all.

 

 

Challis

[[Ch...]]

Whew…I spilled that out, huh?  Ten year anniversary is right now and it's a toughie. 

Putting on the big girl panties and moving forward!

 

Challis 

[[Be...]]

You're a great example of the resilience the human spirit is capable of, even without the little magic  pill, Challis

[[...]]

Benzy is right, that is a VERY scary statement to read here. It's complete crap that you don't eventually get your life back. Do some suffer for a while? YES, they have been DAMAGED from a drug we were NEVER meant to take. Do benzo's work short term or when needed?? YES. The question is, what's the reason for taking them? Use the example of Anxiety/panic, they can help and make it first appear like they saved your life but in the long run it only masks the issues. Education and therapy is KEY. I'll admit it's none of my business if someone wants to use Benzo's for anxiety for the rest of there lives but I feel very badly for someone that honestly believes a doctor that says "You need to take this for the rest of your life".

 

I know it's also true some of us are hypersensitive with medication which gives a MUCH more horrible experience. I know a few people whom have been on Benzo's for 20+ years and they swear by them, this being said they are some of the most Ill people I have ever met.

 

You get off benzo's and go through hell for a while, so what?? Yes it's horrible but being on a benzo long term takes away some of our natural feelings/emotions/sensations.  If someone wants to stay on, good for them but I would NEVER encourage Benzo's long term. Anyone that has ever truly suffered from Benzo's long term would never recommend them. 

 

I was going to avoid entering this conversation but It's rather disturbing.

 

 

Fonz

[[Ch...]]

You're a great example of the resilience the human spirit is capable of, even without the little magic  pill, Challis

 

Aw, thanks…I needed that.  I feel a little frazzled. 

[[fr...]]

LMAO, yikes! i was just hoping for some encouraging stories. oh well dont ask a question if you arent prepared for a variety of answers i guess. i hope everyone who is suffering feels better!

[[...]]

Anyone else going to jump in and encourage Bechlin to get off the poison?    Let's be positive here.. Encouraging someone to stay on benzo's is like a sentence to a life of not living. Healing WILL occur.

[[Mo...]]

frogger, i am so sorry your thread has been hijacked but i think its quite important to have

a discussion  like this.

you did get positive replys , so i would not worry too much and concentrate on a smooth jump.

 

Gussy, sorry i made you older than you are...verzeih mir bitte.

i know exactly what you mean and i also know the way you are feeling now, you want to get

on with your life and not 'waste your time with this shit'.

 

but i just want to let you know what can happen to you in the future.

und das ist tatsache , keine uebertreibung.

 

you might be doing fine for a few years now with your Valium. of course eventually

you have to increase more and more but thats not even the problem, because

the pharma industry has plenty .

 

and then the day will come when your gabaa receptors are downregulated to an extend

that you start getting health issues which no doctor will even think about that its due

to Benzos.

 

(fe. high bp, shortness of breath ....they diagnose it as COPD , your vision will turn bad

and they will tell you its due to age, gastro problems and a lot more . i had lost

2 of my beautiful teeth and my dentist realized it was due to benzos. clever good looking

guy , i must say , i shall be forever grateful to him.)

 

your drinking habit will also change over the years. i don't want to bore you with gabaas

but since alcohol binds on the same receptors , you will notice , its not just a few

scotches on the flight to saigon you want, you actually want a lot more.

not you Gussy, your bloody gabaas need it. verstehst du das ?

 

and last but not least, the worst thing that can happen, one has  an accident

and ends up at the Er. injured. they won't do a Benzo test  and i leave it up to your

intelligence to realize the way this story ends.

 

Ich muss dich warnen Gussy, these pills are serious buisness , they seem like your

best friend but they are your biggest enemy.

 

genug now, du bist so sympatish und es ist mir ein Vergnuegen mit dir zu plaudern.

take care ciao

 

[[Be...]]

well, to be clear, I dont really have a problem with someone that uses benzos, especially if its short term, like they should be used, they are not meant to be used long term, most every official drug site states "two weeks"...(another thread, another topic, another debate)

 

everyone needs support, no matter where they are in this, but my thoughts are should they state certain things here on a benzo-withdrawal/recovery site..

yes, we need to know all sides of the story, but most of us know this side of it, we all got on benzos for what we thought were legitmate reasons, but we're suppose to be here at this site to get off them....... and a lot of us are in an extremely fragile state of mind, we dont need to see members arguing their case of continued usage...

 

but at the same time, again, I know those people might need support too, but if its to support their decisions to continue use, maybe theres a place for a certain section/thread on here for them, or possibly another site?

 

ps. I started a new thread on this in the "Chewing the Fat" section, lets take this there...

[[Be...]]

hey Morreweg, do a hand-check every now and again, you keep letting your hands get out of position on your keyboard....

remember, its A.S.D.F. ,, J, K, L, ;.....

[[Gu...]]

Sorry to hear that Challis. Your story truly is an inspiration.

 

I'm not trying to be negative here. Reality needs to be acknowledged and to ignore it won't help Bechlin or anyone else. I'll never know what would have happened if I'd stayed on benzo's but I can say that coming off them has ruined my life. I can't even articulate how bad its been. I might have got another 10-20 years or more of functionality had I stayed on benzo's. I would've taken that. Now, at 37 my wife is virtually my carer. I was fine on the valium, I must repeat.

 

Bechlin may get off lightly and for his sake I hope he does. However coming off benzo's is a very individual and serious undertaking that shouldn't be taken lightly. It does have the potential to ruin your life :'( I can vouch for that.

[[Gu...]]

Danke schoen, Morreweg.

 

I appreciate the explanation which makes sense. Ironically I can't drink at all now. Even a single drink makes me feel sick.

 

There's just no pleasure in life anymore :'(

[[Ch...]]

Things are going to get better, Gussy.  C/t's take more time.  You're 37 years old and have a lifetime of living ahead of you now.  Are you taking good care of yourself to optimize your healing?  By that I mean good nutrition, no alcohol, sleep (if you can) and minimal stress.

 

Challis

[[Gu...]]

Thanks for your support Challis. Much appreciated.

 

It wasn't a c/t but pretty fast at the end. I dropped .5mg very 2 weeks from 12mg until off. Been off since July 12 and getting progressively worse.

 

As for looking after myself I'm doing my best but have been so sick it makes it difficult. I used to love a drink but I don't drink alcohol at all now. Even half a glass makes me violently ill. I try to eat well and go for a walk everyday but during my waves, which last weeks, I can't leave the house. The depression and apathy has been particularly bad and I take 10mg slow release oxycodone in the morning to ease my body pain and get me moving. It helps a bit. I can't tolerate AD's and don't take anything else.

 

I hope your right, Challis. At the moment my outlook is so bleak.

[[Mo...]]

Danke schoen, Morreweg.

 

I appreciate the explanation which makes sense. Ironically I can't drink at all now. Even a single drink makes me feel sick.

 

There's just no pleasure in life anymore :'(

 

Gussy, you will get your pleasure back, i am sure. bussi

 

hey Morreweg, do a hand-check every now and again, you keep letting your hands get out of position on your keyboard....

remember, its A.S.D.F. ,, J, K, L, ;.....

 

benzo i know, i am playing the piano on my keyboard.

[[Ch...]]

Thanks for your support Challis. Much appreciated.

 

It wasn't a c/t but pretty fast at the end. I dropped .5mg very 2 weeks from 12mg until off. Been off since July 12 and getting progressively worse.

 

As for looking after myself I'm doing my best but have been so sick it makes it difficult. I used to love a drink but I don't drink alcohol at all now. Even half a glass makes me violently ill. I try to eat well and go for a walk everyday but during my waves, which last weeks, I can't leave the house. The depression and apathy has been particularly bad and I take 10mg slow release oxycodone in the morning to ease my body pain and get me moving. It helps a bit. I can't tolerate AD's and don't take anything else.

 

I hope your right, Challis. At the moment my outlook is so bleak.

 

Sorry, not a c/t… but not much different as far as the effect on your body when the end of a taper is so fast.  The beginning can be rushed much easier than the end.

 

Four months off after such a rapid taper is early.  Things ARE going to change for the better.  If you are able to accept the process rather than fight it I believe it helps tremendously. 

 

Do you use a heating pad for your pain?  I had a microwave flax and lavender thing shaped like a boomerang that I'd heat in the microwave and lay on my chest almost 24/7.  It helped with anxiety and muscle pain.  It was also very comforting because of the weight.

 

Speaking of weight, Google 'weighted blankets'.  I've been making them for autistic kids and found they can be effective for benzo issues as well.  I use one to help with sleep. 

 

All we can really do in withdrawal is treat our symptoms.  The two things above can help and require no prescription. 

 

Challis 

[[...]]

hey Morreweg, do a hand-check every now and again, you keep letting your hands get out of position on your keyboard....

remember, its A.S.D.F. ,, J, K, L, ;.....

I think you are mistaking a slippage into German with a finger slippage:

verzeih mir bitte. = excuse me please...

 

but i just want to let you know what can happen to you in the future.

und das ist tatsache , keine uebertreibung.

 

And this is "fact", no exaggeration...

 

verstehst du das ? = Do you understand get that?

 

Ich muss dich warnen Gussy, = I have to warn you...

 

genug now, du bist so sympatish und es ist mir ein Vergnuegen mit dir zu plaudern. = Enough now, you are so "nice" and it is a pleasure to chat with you...

 

You were reading Germlish. I have had conversations like this for years with a friend in Germany...

[[Mo...]]

wow gary,

i have to smile now , your translation looks so cute. nice one.

alles gut gary, ich hoffe du wirst bald gesund.

bussi

[[Di...]]

Sorry to hear that Challis. Your story truly is an inspiration.

 

I'm not trying to be negative here. Reality needs to be acknowledged and to ignore it won't help Bechlin or anyone else. I'll never know what would have happened if I'd stayed on benzo's but I can say that coming off them has ruined my life. I can't even articulate how bad its been. I might have got another 10-20 years or more of functionality had I stayed on benzo's. I would've taken that. Now, at 37 my wife is virtually my carer. I was fine on the valium, I must repeat.

 

Bechlin may get off lightly and for his sake I hope he does. However coming off benzo's is a very individual and serious undertaking that shouldn't be taken lightly. It does have the potential to ruin your life :'( I can vouch for that.

 

I'm sorry if I'm going to sound blunt, but are you in a position of even making other people question whether they should remain on a benzo or not? You did not do a sensible taper. You dropped 15mg in about 8 months. You have absolutely no idea how different things might have been because you didn't give yourself the chance to find out.

 

Like I said, I'm sorry if that's blunt, but I've got to be really honest and say that I think it's pretty unfair of you to even put the idea into other people's heads that staying on a benzo is okay.  I'm sorry that you are suffering, but you only know how "fine" you were at the time you were taking valium. You have no idea what things would have been like 6 months or 12 months down the track. Things might not have remained so "fine". You also have no idea how much better your life might have become if you had tapered (and were still tapering) much more slowly.

 

You did a very rapid taper, and you will not bounce back from that quickly. You need to give yourself a lot more time before you can really say how much getting off valium has ruined your life.