Gabapentin (Neurontin) Withdrawl Support Group

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Committed, how big/small a dose of gabapentin are you on?

 

Why is it a huge problem? Bad s/x? What are they?

 

Katz

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I emptied my gabapentin capsules into water and shook well. I stored the solution for several days in the refrigerator. Just to be safe, I always shook again before drawing my dose. I'm holding on even capsules now, though. I got sick of the dissolving.

 

Curious, too, what your dose is.

[[Co...]]

Good morning. Katz, Gardener thank you for responding.

Only on 100mg for a couple months. Thought getting off would be no problem. I was very wrong.  Yes, symptoms are bad.  Increased anxiety, panic, chest pain, shaky, weak, muscle stiffness in legs, clenched jaw, nausea, stomach pain, diarrhea and at night I sweat and have burning skin.  Have only done 1 cut at 12.5%.

Want to make my own solution. Was thinking of dissolving 100mg tablet in 10ml of water and each ml would be 10 mg making each larger tick on a 1 ml syringe 1 mg. Is that correct? Or is there a better ratio? What  have you done for your solutions?? By brain isn’t firing on all cylinders right now and what should be easy math isn’t not to mention that changing how I dose is driving my anxiety through the roof.

 

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What you describe should work, Committed. In a short time, You'll be free. Ten reductions, no? If it were me, I'd wait 10 days or 2 weeks between reductions. See how your s/x are. It they are bad, then hold.

 

Best,

 

Katz

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Katz, did you use a homemade liquid solution. Would it be easiest to dissolve a tablet each day and just withdrawal and discard the reduced amount and drink the rest? What did you do?

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Yes. I think it's easiest to dissolve a tablet each day, withdraw, discard and drink the rest. It's fiddly but you won't be at this for very long. I sure wouldn't make a batch just to save time/effort.

 

K

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Armed with a jeweler's scale (can buy an inexpensive one through Amazon), it's fairly straightforward to do a slow weaning by opening up the capsules and sprinkling out small amounts of the contents. It's permitted me to reduce the neurontin by 10mg at a time. Good luck!

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Just fyi, gabapentin is water soluble. Might be easier to reduce that way. Just a thought! 

 

Katz

 

Oh, I already said that. 

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Looking for advice please.

 

I am pretty sure I am experiencing inter dose withdrawal. I am experiencing the same challenging symptoms at approximately the same time every day.

 

I am only on one 87.5mg dose per day taken at bedtime.

 

My doctor suggested moving 20% of my dose to another time but openly admitted that she has no experience with people having challenging reactions to tapering off meds.

 

My questions are, will moving that 20% register as a cut? My only reduction so far was at 12.5% and I won’t be doing that amount again. It was to much and had to hold for quite a while. My second question is do you think that 20% at a different time will be enough to make a difference? 20% will only be 17.5mg.

 

Thank you for any suggestions.

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Looking for advice please.

 

I am pretty sure I am experiencing inter dose withdrawal. I am experiencing the same challenging symptoms at approximately the same time every day.

 

I am only on one 87.5mg dose per day taken at bedtime.

 

My doctor suggested moving 20% of my dose to another time but openly admitted that she has no experience with people having challenging reactions to tapering off meds.

 

My questions are, will moving that 20% register as a cut? My only reduction so far was at 12.5% and I won’t be doing that amount again. It was to much and had to hold for quite a while. My second question is do you think that 20% at a different time will be enough to make a difference? 20% will only be 17.5mg.

 

Thank you for any suggestions.

 

I'm very sorry about your symptoms. Sadly, they are not surprising given gabapentin's short half life. I had trouble dosing 2 times/day and decided to stay with 3 times/day all the way to the bottom. Since it is water soluble, it was not hard to do that.

 

I see no point in creating uneven doses. If you want steady state drug, you want even dosing. That would mean dividing your current dose in half and dosing twice/day spaced 12 hours apart if your doctor thinks twice/day will work for you. (There are people who do OK on twice/day.) That said, it is common to prescribe the largest dose of gabapentin at bedtime because it is sedating. I know someone who took it that way and did fine, but she was not challenging her brain with a taper, just staying on it indefinitely. Your dose seems very small to be concerned about daytime sedation.

 

I will tell you my experience with Xanax, another drug with a short half life. I had a prescriber who was prescribing a small dose earlier and then a large dose at bedtime. I was a mess. I went to a real psychiatrist who told me to take my whole dose and divide it into 3 equal doses and dose 3 times/day in order to achieve steady state of the drug. I did that. I don't remember feeling like it was a cut. I remember feeling much better at a more steady state of the drug. Hope that's helpful.

 

BTW, you might want to update your signature.

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Gardener,

 

Thank you so much for your response. I appreciate the advice.

 

I know I need to but I am so scared to cut that one dose by so much. Changing to a homemade liquid with no dosage change was hard. And just last week changing to a new refill at the same dosage resulted it feeling like I made a cut. So unbelievably sensitive to the slightest changes.

 

Just want to get on with tapering but just can’t seem to get my feet under me 

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Gardener,

 

Thank you so much for your response. I appreciate the advice.

 

I know I need to but I am so scared to cut that one dose by so much. Changing to a homemade liquid with no dosage change was hard. And just last week changing to a new refill at the same dosage resulted it feeling like I made a cut. So unbelievably sensitive to the slightest changes.

 

Just want to get on with tapering but just can’t seem to get my feet under me 

 

If you are already on liquid, you are halfway there! Did your pharmacy change brands on you? My doctor wrote my brand and "no substitutions" on my script. I always double checked. Caught them switching brands and they had to replace it at their cost because they didn't follow the script.

 

Perhaps you could shift a tiny bit more each day for a week or so? Just a thought.

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Hey Gardener,

 

No, the refill was the same that’s why I was so surprised by the reaction. When I tapered my benzo I did have problems if I switched manufacturers so I was always diligent to get the same manufacturer on refill.

Are you referring to the same manufacturer or should I be paying attention to something else on my refill?

 

Thank you for the suggestion on shifting my dose.

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Hey Gardener,

 

No, the refill was the same that’s why I was so surprised by the reaction. When I tapered my benzo I did have problems if I switched manufacturers so I was always diligent to get the same manufacturer on refill.

Are you referring to the same manufacturer or should I be paying attention to something else on my refill?

 

Thank you for the suggestion on shifting my dose.

 

Yes, I meant the manufacturer. Hope you find something that works for you.

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Thank you!

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Hi!

Helping a friend who is in another support group wiyu me. She CTd not knowing it wasn’t the best way to get off klonopin 2 1/2yrs ago in a detox (.5mg). They put her on 1400mg gabapentin and low dose of Lexapro.  She’s tapered the Gabapentin using a compound liquid (50mg=1mL) and dry hybrid taper the last 2 1/2yrs.

 

She made a mistake at one point in the last few months and went down by 40mg accidentally and then stayed there (at 100mg) for the last 2 months but she hasn’t stabilized. She takes it once at 9:30pm. She tried to split into 3 doses yesterday and so all liquid and she was up all night with horrific akathisia and no sleep, severe anxiety pacing etc. she’s been struggling all today and going to go back to the pill and liquid combo but she is worried she’s now reacting terribly to liquid and won’t know how to taper the capsule lower than 100mg. She’s had a rough time yhe last 2 1/2yrs but the akathisia is new.

 

Any thoughts of how she can go about getting down from this dose? I’ve never taken Gabapentin before but trying to help give her some info (she gets triggered easily at this stage so didn’t want to send her here yet).

 

Thanks for your thoughts in this!!!

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I tapered down from 2300 mgs in pretty big reductions with no serious s/x until I got to 100 mgs. Then (I was taking capsules) I poured out half the capsule and reduced by 50 mgs (approx) for two weeks, then stopped. But later I came to learn that gabapentin is water soluble. She could make up a solution with her 100 mg capsule and 100 ml of water and reduce by tiny amounts. If I had to do it again, that's what I would do. Get a syringe that measures tiny amounts (1 ml) and reduce by that amount daily. After she feels stable enough to continue. Just a thought.

 

Best,

 

Katz

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Hi!

Helping a friend who is in another support group wiyu me. She CTd not knowing it wasn’t the best way to get off klonopin 2 1/2yrs ago in a detox (.5mg). They put her on 1400mg gabapentin and low dose of Lexapro.  She’s tapered the Gabapentin using a compound liquid (50mg=1mL) and dry hybrid taper the last 2 1/2yrs.

 

She made a mistake at one point in the last few months and went down by 40mg accidentally and then stayed there (at 100mg) for the last 2 months but she hasn’t stabilized. She takes it once at 9:30pm. She tried to split into 3 doses yesterday and so all liquid and she was up all night with horrific akathisia and no sleep, severe anxiety pacing etc. she’s been struggling all today and going to go back to the pill and liquid combo but she is worried she’s now reacting terribly to liquid and won’t know how to taper the capsule lower than 100mg. She’s had a rough time yhe last 2 1/2yrs but the akathisia is new.

 

Any thoughts of how she can go about getting down from this dose? I’ve never taken Gabapentin before but trying to help give her some info (she gets triggered easily at this stage so didn’t want to send her here yet).

 

Thanks for your thoughts in this!!!

 

I have a few questions to make sure I got this right. Your friend was using part liquid before and she just tried to go back to liquid again but failed? Was she stabilized from her K taper before she started her G taper? She was not stabilized from large G cut before she tried to switch to liquid? Why did she switch to 3 times/day dosing? Was she doing that previously? Did she make a cut when she switched to liquid?

 

My thoughts: If she was not stable when she made a switch of any kind, that could have been the problem. Also, if she made 2 switches at once (dosing schedule and changing to liquid), it's hard to know what caused the problem. I would be more inclined to believe it was changing her dosing schedule that caused the problem. But it could have been either or it could have been the combination of both. Personally, I had no trouble switching to liquid. I agree with Katz that the last 100mg can be more difficult to taper, so she needs to be careful about how she goes about it.

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Thanks y’all. I just talked to her first time over ohone and tried to get correct details but she’s having lots of trouble so I might be getting something wrong.

 

- she detoxed K 2 1/2 yrs ago and was put on Gabapentin in detox so no she wasn’t stable from that detox

 

- she was doing ok, hard but ok until she made an accidental reduction of 40mg in one cut after losing her dog and she didn’t realize where she was at taper wise and then held there for last two months. I confirmed she took only the 100mg capsule for the last two months and struggled not stabilizing at all….  and then 2 nights ago since she didn’t know how she was ever going to decrease with capsule she tried to move to all liquid based on a friends suggestion.

 

-she was doing a majority of tablet and then making her reductions with the liquid portion prior to the accidental 40mg drop, and get body did fine with the hybrid.

 

-he friend told her to go to three doses a day two nights ago (from her standard single nightly dose be he thought last 2 months she was having interdose withdrawal issues).

 

She switched to all liquid since she didn’t know how to split up capsule and she took one liquid dose, had a reaction and so she decided to take full dose amount bc of the akathisia…. So she said she never actually did the 3 individual doses.

 

- she had aka all day yesterday and was a mess last night and couldn’t understand why the all liquid would be a problem when she has used it for the majority of 2 1/2 yrs. Given it was the smaller portion of her dose and making full switchover on one swoop would that be maybe the issue?

-she went with just the full capsule last night and it didn’t appear to be going well but I’ll check on her later today. Is aka common in GP withdrawal?

 

-she’s in such a bad state her family is pushing to go to Inner Fire in Vermont where they do a taper program for a year. She’s so scared after doing detox of K initially 2 1/2yrs ago.

 

-can someone detail out how the home brew opening capsule and water method for me since I am tapering K (with compound liquid), and not familiar with how to do the home brew. My brain is having its own issues so I would love just a little step by step help if that’s possible so I can send to her as an option. She has very little help which is also complicating things bc her family nearby isn’t helping out.

 

Thank you so very much!!!!

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Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I also suspect interdose withdrawal for her prolonged instability. Gabapentin is a short-acting drug. I think she was on the right track trying to get to 3 even doses per day, especially if she was dosing 3 times/day previously.

 

If she made a liquid and then measured out part of it for her dose, she may have made an error in the calculations. But you say she had been tapering with a liquid before, so that seems unlikely. It's worth looking at again, though.

 

Gabapentin is soluble in water, so it's easy to make a liquid. I measured my water into a canning jar because it came with a tight lid, dumped in the capsule, shook it up, and drew out my dose with a syringe. I suspect she has already been doing something like this.

 

It is possible to do a dry micro taper. I have seen people on the forum discuss this. They open the capsule and mix it with something that is dry. I don't know the details, though. You could try asking on the titration board.

 

IMO, a person is better off at home with family support than in-patient were they take your choices away from you. Regarding Inner Fire, if she were allowed to check herself out at any time if she disagreed with their protocol and her family would support her in that, and if she felt she needed the support and structure at Inner Fire, it would be better than a psychiatric hospital. Personally, I would rather be at home than in an institution surrounded by strangers. But, her situation may be different. If she feels she is on the verge of being readmitted to a psychiatric hospital, I suggest she consider Inner Fire or most anything else to that option. We have peer support houses here in Wisconsin. They offer short stays for emotional support. When my home situation was not good, I went to one for a few days and found it helpful. Here's an example. It is state funded so you have to be a Wisconsin resident, but other states have them too.  https://www.namifoxvalley.org/iris-place/

 

Will follow this post with another with a quote from my p-log that I made during my gabapentin taper that tells how I liquefied.

 

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Gabapentin Taper

 

Flare settled down and I'm feeling better dosing gabapentin three times/day. I wonder how much of my benzo withdrawal trouble toward the end was caused by dosing the gabapentin only twice/day. It's a short-acting drug.

 

Decided to start a taper of the gabapentin on November 1st. I found reputable sources that said gabapentin is feely soluble in water and fairly stable, so I'm dumping my capsules in water, shaking, and pulling out my doses. It sure is easier than the method I had to use for the Librium. I store about 5 days worth of liquid in the refrigerator and that seems to be working fine. I always shake it up before drawing a dose just to be safe, though, technically, it should still be in solution and not need shaking.

 

This is my liquefying method:

 

Open and empty 4 x 300mg capsules into a glass jar with a secure lid (1,200mg total).

Add 240ml of water (I measure water with a gradated cylinder, as I did with my Librium taper) and shake.

Now 20ml of liquid = 100mg of gabapentin.

 

 

IMPORTANT: As your dose of gabapentin increases, its bioavailability dramatically decreases.

 

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2009/020235s041,020882s028,021129s027lbl.pdf  (Scroll down to bioavailability.)

 

So, you may very well be able to make large cuts when you begin your gabapentin taper, but you need to make smaller cuts as you get lower.

 

NOTE: survivingantidepressants.org has helpful info about tapering gabapentin. They do much more than antidepressants. They also have a benzodiazepine thread that you can only see once you join. They are very helpful with poly-drugging issues.

[[Bo...]]

Thanks. She said she never did three doses a day, she has aways been on one this whole time until attempting trying three doses using all liquid two nights ago. First dose was horrible so she took her full dose at that time ….so three doses had never been used ever for last 2 1/2 years, it was going to be attempted but didn’t end up happening.

 

She used a compound liquid from pharmacy and never did home made. So the water will be new, but I told her to keep just taking the pill this week and see if the akathisia calms some. It literally started when she introduced the compound liquid again after only doing capsule for two month 100mg hold. 

 

She is extremely depressed and isolation isn’t good for her and she has zero emotional support in person. The Inner Fire place is willing to work with her bc it’s by a lady who saw the harm of detox places working there. I have yet to look into but there is flexibility which is key. Just very expensive. I’ll pass along the place you mentioned also which I appreciate!! I’m sorry you had a tough time but hoping you are doing so much better after your hard road with all of this!!

 

I’ll try to wrap my head around this taking home brew….

How do you know how many mLs of water to use? I have heard about the benzo side and people taking out 1ML a day and then drinking the rest but the method yiu did says to take dose from what you remove. Is this the only way to do for GP? Her cognitive ability is really hard at moment so looking for easiest way with home brew. She doesn’t have scale and truing to weigh powder she thinks will be too hard and confusing.

 

So what she would need to get is, glass jar that holds up to how many mL? Graduated cylinder, syringe size that works with this method?

 

Thanks y’all so so much!!

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks. She said she never did three doses a day, she has aways been on one this whole time until attempting trying three doses using all liquid two nights ago. First dose was horrible so she took her full dose at that time ….so three doses had never been used ever for last 2 1/2 years, it was going to be attempted but didn’t end up happening.

 

She used a compound liquid from pharmacy and never did home made. So the water will be new, but I told her to keep just taking the pill this week and see if the akathisia calms some. It literally started when she introduced the compound liquid again after only doing capsule for two month 100mg hold. 

 

She is extremely depressed and isolation isn’t good for her and she has zero emotional support in person. The Inner Fire place is willing to work with her bc it’s by a lady who saw the harm of detox places working there. I have yet to look into but there is flexibility which is key. Just very expensive. I’ll pass along the place you mentioned also which I appreciate!! I’m sorry you had a tough time but hoping you are doing so much better after your hard road with all of this!!

 

I’ll try to wrap my head around this taking home brew….

How do you know how many mLs of water to use? I have heard about the benzo side and people taking out 1ML a day and then drinking the rest but the method yiu did says to take dose from what you remove. Is this the only way to do for GP? Her cognitive ability is really hard at moment so looking for easiest way with home brew. She doesn’t have scale and truing to weigh powder she thinks will be too hard and confusing.

 

So what she would need to get is, glass jar that holds up to how many mL? Graduated cylinder, syringe size that works with this method?

 

Thanks y’all so so much!!

So the liquid she just took was from a pharmacy? Well, there's a potential problem. Did they switch brands? Did they make a mistake? I have heard of that happening. Some of us are sensitive to the smallest change, even changes allowed in the law for variations in bioavailability between brands. My doctor wrote my brand into my prescription and "no substitutions." I still checked every time and once or twice found they had switched to a different brand anyway.

 

If she has always been dosing at bedtime, I am not sure it is interdose withdrawal. The brain likes predictability and is probably used to the bedtime only dose. I say that, but I could never get used to my bedtime-only dose of Xanax. Once I was dependent, I was a total mess until a new prescriber switched me to 4 times/day dosing, which is the standard for Xanax. I don't think gabapentin is the same. Many people take it only or mostly at bedtime.

 

This could all be that she is just too destabilized from her c/t and her G taper. Her brain can't take any more change. When I got to that point myself, I did a long hold of about a year. My GP told me that the brain likes predictability and told me no messing with any med at any time for any reason until my nervous system settled down. It was discouraging but it was the answer. I hung out in the Long Hold Support Group to feel less alone. Eventually I started up tapering again. In fact, I'm doing a hold of my G right now again. Life circumstances make it a bad time to try to taper right now. Life circumstances are a consideration, too. We are sensitive to stress when we are destabilized. Ideally, we would not make cuts when our lives are in upheaval from things such as a series illness or a move or a job change.

 

I know she wants this over with, but maybe her goal might be to get stable rather than to get this over with. Of course, only she knows the answer to that.

 

I'd be curious as to what Katz thinks about the need to dose 3 times/day now if she never did before.

BTW, the link I sent was for a place that is in Wisconsin for Wisconsin residents. But I know other states have peer support places like that. I just don't know what they are called.

 

 

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My home brew example using 300mg capsules:

 

Open and empty 4 x 300mg capsules into a glass jar with a secure lid (1,200mg total gabapentin).

Add 240ml of water (I measure water with a gradated cylinder from amazon) and shake.

Now 20ml of liquid = 100mg of gabapentin.

 

I did not do the pitch out thing. Too complicated for me. I measured my dose and took it and put the rest in the refrigerator. It seemed to be stable for several days. I never kept it longer than 5 days.

 

You could do it either way. I just thought this way was simpler. I don't understand the reasoning for doing it the other way unless they thought the liquid would be unstable so they ought to pitch it. That is a legitimate concern, but I had no trouble with saving it in the refrigerator for several days.

 

I do not do math for other people because I am afraid I might mess it up. You can either follow my formula above because I know it worked for me (and my daughter check my math). Or you can probably find a math guru on the Titration Board or in the Daily Micro-taper Support Group if you want to know how to make a smaller quantity, perhaps enough to last a few days. That would be so she doesn't have to mix it up every day. Mixing every day gets tiresome fast.

 

I would suggest figuring out how she will measure her water and makes sure she measures it in the same way each time. I used a graduated cylinder and checked it at eye level exactly the same way every time. Some people use large oral syringes. The important thing is to pick a method and do it the same way every time. Again, Titration Board or Daily Micro-Taper Support Group would be places to look for directions on how to change a solid into a liquid.

[[Bo...]]

Thank you so much!

 

I’ll see if someone in other board can guide me a little bit so I tell her correctly! Im an engineer and should be used or numbers yet benzo brain has me easily mixed up some times and when it so someone else I want to be super super careful of course!

 

She moved to Wisconsin(randomly enough!)  actually from California bc of the CT from K and losing her home there and to be closer to family (who now don’t help and tell her she is causing them to get sick and ill from her situation). It’s so tough as I know so many have challenging family support at times bc it’s not understood!

 

Again, awesome job give done and helping others yhru your own battle! Best wishes as you resume your taper and what an accomplishment thus far if what you’ve finished!!

 

Thanks for your feedback and wishing you well going forward!!