Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group

[[Fi...]]

@Final healing - ugh, so sorry you had a setback and that the remeron isn't helping with sleep.

 

when you say it's been paradoxical, what are you experiencing?

 

I can't tell if your current dose is 3.75 or 7.5. But you would just start from your current dose, and taper down, just like on benzos.

 

Lots of folks here are going very slow, but if you've only been on it for 21 days, you can likely do a faster taper. You'd just have to experiment and see how it goes. Once you're on it for a month, it's suggested you taper a lot slower, so if you want to get off, the sooner, the better.

 

Thank you for your response.

 

Paradoxical for me means I get agitated when I take it. It makes me restless and I'm that way all night long. That makes the rumination I have even worse.

 

The majority of the time I've been on 7.5 but there have been a handful of times I've gone lower to 3.75 and 5.50.

 

I will probably taper downtown 5.5 and see how it goes.

 

I'm pretty scared about it as I'm in this setback but if its not working.

[[Fi...]]

@[op...]

 

I see you switched to liquid for your Mirt taper. Did you have that compounded?

 

I may have read that wrong.  Are you doing a daily micro taper with Mirt? I did that with my benzo and it worked well.

[[op...]]

I have not switched to liquid.

I am still tapering my benzo, so really just lowering mirt very, very gradually.

There are others here who have more experience with tapering mirt - hopefully they will chime in. I don't know if anyone has done a DLMT off Mirt, but it seems like you could try it if you have the liquid.

 

I would suggest going back to read the many posts that came before in this thread - they are valuable.

I also see in your sig that you tapered off Mirt once before, so you probably have more experience than I do! Good luck with it!

 

 

[Guest [ai...]]

Hello. I have been doing some research on mirtazapine. I have found that tapering becomes significantly harder at below 5-6mg. I have found a calculator which shows that at just 5mg for a 77kg (166lb person) the following results based on ki(nM) values according to this trustworthy source:

 

Scroll down to the chart at the bottom: https://www.psychotropical.com/mirtazapine-a-paradigm-of-mediocre-science/

 

H1@0.14 - 94.6148527853%

H1@5.1 - 32.5373911972%

 

A1@500 - 0.489540358319%

A1@34 - 6.74646338583%

 

A2@141 - 1.71458778056%

A2@1050 - 0.233713758957%

 

5-HT2A@16 - 13.3249048868%

5-HT2@2.0 - 55.1543688051%

 

5-HT1A@714 - 0.343319111877%

5-HT1A@18 - 12.0223562929%

 

So the binding affinity to the receptor is most potent at the H1 receptors, followed by the 5-HT2A, then A2, then A1, and finally 5-HT2A.

 

So even at 0.1mg of mirtazapine, it occupies 26% of the H1 receptor and 2.5% of 5-HT2a.

 

This depends on other factors such as detox ability, absorption issues, medications, etc.

 

Here is the calculator if anyone is interested in measuring their dosage and/or other medications: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/9mge6xfvkb

 

D=amount of drug you are on in mg

M= your weight in Kg (covert from pounds if necessary)

K= Ki(nM) value according to Wikipedia

 

The guy that wrote the above article believes that the mirtazapine evidence is wrong and explains in the article why:

 

https://www.psychotropical.com/mirtazapine-dubious-evidence/

 

https://www.psychotropical.com/mirtazapine-the-greatest-lie-of-all/

 

https://www.psychotropical.com/mirtazapine-a-paradigm-of-mediocre-science/

[[...]]

Do any of you think it is possible to fully recover from benzo damage while on the Remeron?

[Guest [ai...]]

Do any of you think it is possible to fully recover from benzo damage while on the Remeron?

 

I personally don't think so. Histamine and gaba have an inverse relationship.

 

It will mask symptoms to a certain degree

[[...]]

I’ve been off benzos for over 4 years and I have been on Remeron for 3 years. I am currently on 10mg but ever time I go down in dose , even 1 mg I have mental issues. I’m to the point of just jumping off the Remeron and seeing what happens. I don’t know what to do especially if it keeping me from healing from the benzos.

[Guest [ai...]]

I’ve been off benzos for over 4 years and I have been on Remeron for 3 years. I am currently on 10mg but ever time I go down in dose , even 1 mg I have mental issues. I’m to the point of just jumping off the Remeron and seeing what happens. I don’t know what to do especially if it keeping me from healing from the benzos.

 

I jumped off at 5.5mg and within days chronic akahisia appeared.  I don't know if I got aka from remeron alone of a couple of antipsychotic trials.

[[...]]

I’m sorry that hear that as akasithia is the worst thing ever . What anti psychotics are you on if I may ask ?

[Guest [ai...]]

I'm not on any. I trialed low-dose Seroquel and then Zyprexa for a week or so.  This was 2+ years ago. I'm also four years off benzos.

 

If you are stable while on Remeron I would liquid micro taper with 300ml of water and slowly take out .1ml - .3ml daily.

[[...]]

I just wish I could know for certain if it prevented healing because if it doesn’t I would probably not get off it. I have read so many things and it’s 50/50 if it does

[[Sl...]]

Do any of you think it is possible to fully recover from benzo damage while on the Remeron?

 

I personally don't think so. Histamine and gaba have an inverse relationship.

 

It will mask symptoms to a certain degree

 

I disagree. The truth is, there isn’t enough research about any of this, and we mostly just have anecdotes. From all the anecdotes, it appears that all of this is truly individual. Mirt didn’t help my benzo withdrawal at all and I had horrific symptoms - over 50 of them, including intense nausea, burning skin, loss of appetite… etc. etc. However, I’m almost 11 months off lorazepam now and doing waaaay better. I’m down to 4.29mg of Mirt and I’ve been tapering off 15mg for almost nine months now. Thankfully, I haven’t had any noticeable withdrawal pattern from it.

 

Imho, it’s important not to project one’s personal experience into generalizations that apply for everyone.

[[se...]]

Bob. It has been a while. I hope this message finds you well. I want to thank you for your help in getting me off of klonopin. It has been about 10 months now and I am doing ok. While I was tapering my pdoc put me on remeron which is a nasty drug as well. I struggled in whether to take it but so desperately needed sleep.

 

I tried a compounding liquid for this, but it is very expensive, and the batch only has about a 2-week shelf life.

 

I was wondering if your method of dry tapering would work with remeron? I understand everything you did except how to determine the total amount of microcrystalline to add to your batch creation.

 

Appreciate your feedback.

 

Seeking.

[[...]]

I can tell you have much microcrystalline if you give me these answers:

 

How much does one tablet of remeron weigh? (in grams)

What is the dose of the one tablet or remeron? (in mg)

How many tablets do you take a day?

How fast do you want to taper (when do you want to be free of remeron)?

 

[[...]]

I don’t know what to do , I would just stay on it if I could heal after 4 year.

[[se...]]

I can tell you have much microcrystalline if you give me these answers:

 

How much does one tablet of remeron weigh? (in grams)

What is the dose of the one tablet or remeron? (in mg)

How many tablets do you take a day?

How fast do you want to taper (when do you want to be free of remeron)?

 

Thank you. Typical pill weighs about 0.103 grams

1 tablet = 15 mg

Current dosage is 5.8 mg. So currently take one 15 mg pill cut it in half and then shave down half to 5.8 mg

Interested to drop about 3% a week to start or about 0.03 mg a day. Want to try that for 30 days because I am coming back from liquid to stabilize, I hope then may increase.

 

Believe my CNS is very sensitive still from the klonopin.

 

Thanks for your help. I would also like to learn how you calculate. I have your spreadsheet but do not see how you calculated the microcrystalline.

 

Thanks,

 

Seeking

 

[Guest [ai...]]

I can tell you have much microcrystalline if you give me these answers:

 

How much does one tablet of remeron weigh? (in grams)

What is the dose of the one tablet or remeron? (in mg)

How many tablets do you take a day?

How fast do you want to taper (when do you want to be free of remeron)?

 

Thank you. Typical pill weighs about 0.103 grams

1 tablet = 15 mg

Current dosage is 5.8 mg. So currently take one 15 mg pill cut it in half and then shave down half to 5.8 mg

Interested to drop about 3% a week to start or about 0.03 mg a day. Want to try that for 30 days because I am coming back from liquid to stabilize, I hope then may increase.

 

Believe my CNS is very sensitive still from the klonopin.

 

Thanks for your help. I would also like to learn how you calculate. I have your spreadsheet but do not see how you calculated the microcrystalline.

 

Thanks,

 

Seeking

 

Look into a 300ml water taper. I take out between 0.005mg, 0.01mg or 0.015mg a day which is between 0.1-0.3ml of water.

[[...]]

Well if you want to learn how I did the math, you will need to unhide excel columns O to T.

 

Once you do that, you will see it would be very difficult to walk you through the equations.  It took me days to create this.

 

But if you want to trust the worksheet, here is how to use it to get you grams of microcrystalline:

In cell D4, enter 0.103

In cell D5, enter 15

I assume you bought the same gel capsules as I used so leave cell D6  as 0.4

In cell D7, enter 5.8

In cell D8, enter 0.03

 

 

In cells D12 and D13, the worksheet will tell you to crush 12 tablets and mix with 11.178 grams of microcrystalline.

 

Use that for your first 30 days to taper down to 4.9 mg.  At that point, you will go back to the worksheet for your next 30 days.

 

 

[[op...]]

Slowphie -

 

It's great to hear from you and I'm glad your taper is going well! I agree that everyone is different. It's super individual.

 

Seeking -

 

I hope you're doing ok! I'm curious why you aren't just dry cutting ... it seems so much simpler, especially considering that you've had such a rough go of it this past year ... why not just go down 3% of .103 grams by using a file and a scale?

 

 

[[Fi...]]

I am getting ready to start a slow Mirt taper using a scale and nail file.

 

I've been on 7.5mgs for 5 weeks. Wanted to use it for sleep but it has been inconsistent and now not working at all. In fact I think it is making things works and keeping me more awake.

 

I'm still in a setback so I have to move slowly. Was thinking of making a 2% cut to start.  I don't want to drag it out but I'm not so stable to negotiate with.

 

Just looking for support as I begin.

 

I've had to cut 15mg pills in half (doctor wanted me to go up)

They range in weight from about 147-152 grams on the scale.

 

Can I just cut each pill in half, no matter the weight, and shave from there? Have also heard to weigh 10 pills and then divide my 10 to get an average weight. In this case, 10 15mgs pills total weigh 150.9. Divided in half 75.45 and I would doing up to 75.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Final

 

 

[[...]]

yes, that makes sense.

Try not to worry about being exact.  Drugs stay in the blood long enough so if you have a little more one day and a little less the next, it averages out.

Remember, a large part of your withdrawal symptoms are created by anxiety.  When you have anxiety, muscles are tense all the time, and after a while, they get tired and hurt (headaches, muscle aches, etc.)  Also, anxiety kills sleep.  So reduce your anxiety at all costs. 

Therefore, do not worry so much about the scales and being exact.  It will kill you and it isn't that important.

[[Fi...]]

yes, that makes sense.

Try not to worry about being exact.  Drugs stay in the blood long enough so if you have a little more one day and a little less the next, it averages out.

Remember, a large part of your withdrawal symptoms are created by anxiety.  When you have anxiety, muscles are tense all the time, and after a while, they get tired and hurt (headaches, muscle aches, etc.)  Also, anxiety kills sleep.  So reduce your anxiety at all costs. 

Therefore, do not worry so much about the scales and being exact.  It will kill you and it isn't that important.

 

Thank you so much Bob.

 

So just taking each pill one by one and shaving 2% should be fine.

 

You offered similar words to me when I was tapering my benzo and they comforted me so much.  You said don't stress, just keep moving steadily down. And I did.

 

Final

[[Fi...]]

yes, that makes sense.

Try not to worry about being exact.  Drugs stay in the blood long enough so if you have a little more one day and a little less the next, it averages out.

Remember, a large part of your withdrawal symptoms are created by anxiety.  When you have anxiety, muscles are tense all the time, and after a while, they get tired and hurt (headaches, muscle aches, etc.)  Also, anxiety kills sleep.  So reduce your anxiety at all costs. 

Therefore, do not worry so much about the scales and being exact.  It will kill you and it isn't that important.

 

Thank you so much Bob.

 

So just taking each pill one by one and shaving 2% should be fine.

 

You offered similar words to me when I was tapering my benzo and they comforted me so much.  You said don't stress, just keep moving steadily down. And I did.

 

I also see in your signature thqt you occasionally take sleep aids in an emergency including other meds. That is also comforting to me. I have done that once but may have to in the future. I trust myself about taking too much but its good to know that others are human as well.

 

Final

[[...]]

yes, that makes sense.

Try not to worry about being exact.  Drugs stay in the blood long enough so if you have a little more one day and a little less the next, it averages out.

Remember, a large part of your withdrawal symptoms are created by anxiety.  When you have anxiety, muscles are tense all the time, and after a while, they get tired and hurt (headaches, muscle aches, etc.)  Also, anxiety kills sleep.  So reduce your anxiety at all costs. 

Therefore, do not worry so much about the scales and being exact.  It will kill you and it isn't that important.

 

Thank you so much Bob.

 

So just taking each pill one by one and shaving 2% should be fine.

 

You offered similar words to me when I was tapering my benzo and they comforted me so much.  You said don't stress, just keep moving steadily down. And I did.

 

Final

To keep it simple, you can break your pills into a bunch of little bits.

 

Then add the bits to your scale to get your dose.

 

For example, you were at 7.5 mg and you want to reduce 2% to 7.35 mg.

 

It is ok to use the fact you said one pill weighs 150.  That is close enough.

 

The math to figure out what your scale should read to get 7.35 mg is:

 

scale read = 7.35mg * 150/15 = 73.5

 

Again, do not worry if the scale readings drift up and down as you do it - even breathing on the scale changes the values.  For 73.5, be at peace if you get yout scale anywhere between 71 to 76.

[[Fi...]]

yes, that makes sense.

Try not to worry about being exact.  Drugs stay in the blood long enough so if you have a little more one day and a little less the next, it averages out.

Remember, a large part of your withdrawal symptoms are created by anxiety.  When you have anxiety, muscles are tense all the time, and after a while, they get tired and hurt (headaches, muscle aches, etc.)  Also, anxiety kills sleep.  So reduce your anxiety at all costs. 

Therefore, do not worry so much about the scales and being exact.  It will kill you and it isn't that important.

 

Thank you so much Bob.

 

So just taking each pill one by one and shaving 2% should be fine.

 

You offered similar words to me when I was tapering my benzo and they comforted me so much.  You said don't stress, just keep moving steadily down. And I did.

 

Final

To keep it simple, you can break your pills into a bunch of little bits.

 

Then add the bits to your scale to get your dose.

 

For example, you were at 7.5 mg and you want to reduce 2% to 7.35 mg.

 

It is ok to use the fact you said one pill weighs 150.  That is close enough.

 

The math to figure out what your scale should read to get 7.35 mg is:

 

scale read = 7.35mg * 150/15 = 73.5

 

Again, do not worry if the scale readings drift up and down as you do it - even breathing on the scale changes the values.  For 73.5, be at peace if you get yout scale anywhere between 71 to 76.

 

Thank you again, that helps.

 

One more thing.  I did a micro taper for my benzo withdrawal

And was thinking to do the same here. I would not go as fast as I did with my benzo taper but could aim for 6-8% a month, holding when I needed to.

 

Does that sound reasonable? I will look through this thread to see if anyone else has done a micro taper as well.

 

Really helpful Bob.