Love in the time of NO MORE VALIUM

[[Wi...]]

Hi Mimi,

Thank you so very much for your willingness to help me with this. It is truly a blessing, you are a blessing!! My biggest problem is insomnia. I have a compromised autoimmune disease, so I have to sleep. I am keeping my nightime dose the largest because of it. What I have been doing is dosing 2 times a day like this:

 

   AM

5mg. pills

 

   PM

2mg. pill

.1mg/ml. Liquid

 

   Bed

14mg. pills

 

I have to leave right now for my very early appointment with my doctor, but I will get back to you very soon

Love,

RG

 

I realize you didn't ask this and is totally unsolicited, but in support of higher doses at night and lower in the morning, initially I started by taking my whole dose at night and then discovered that dosing more than once a day was beneficial.  It helped temper my mornings, but I've tried to keep that dose low simply because despite the fact that I'm going to come off of it all, I don't want to get too acclimated to a high morning dose and for me, increase the potential adaptation I believe I will then  have to readapt to as I cut that portion in the morning.  Not sure that makes sense and I do know that Ashton suggests the doses be evenly distributed, but for me I am more comfortable with this.

[[rh...]]

HI RG

I am happy if I can be of support to any of my buddies as they taper away! 

I used Roche Labs Liquid Diazepam.  Make sure your Dr orders it in the 5mg:5ml strength as it is easy to calculate and dilute(if that is needed at lower doses-more on that later).  For now I would begin to taper each day dropping .1mg and see how that "feels".  My pwn personal taper strategy was to do the following;

1.  Taper at a rate where you have little or no symptoms. During my taper I felt fatigue and "sensitive" but NO anxiety, insomnia, bad pain etc.  Once anxiety insomnia started I KNew I had to slow down and let your body catch up.  Remember to try and keep your symptoms at a minimum.  If you taper and feel ok (say for afew weeks) and then begin to feel worse it is a sign that you have overtapered your bodies ability to UP-Regulate your receptors.  Pushing ahead will only bring on more suffering.  It is important to find the sweet spot where you can taper along and feel NO INCREASE in symptoms.  How to do this???  Start at .1mg a day and once you begin to feel symptoms increase hold a few days and once you feel symptoms DECREASE try to go back to same rate(.1mg) if you get ill again within a few days that is a sign you can no longer tolerate this taper rate.  SO decrease to .75mg a day and see how you feel.  If you are still feeling an increase in symptoms drop to .50mg a day.  Its a trial and error process that can be frustrating at times but tracking your symptoms and dose each day will often reveal a pattern that you can track for future reference.   Increase and decrease until you find yourself able to taper without feeling WORSE is key.We are all different and so we need to experiment a bit to find a place where we feel relatively well.  WHo cares how long you taper if you feel relatively well along the way.

 

2. I split my dose into 2 doses a day to keep the levels of benzo in blood stable and therefore avoid interdose withdrawal.  Keeping blood levels stable and avoiding peaks and valleys could also be helpful for the body to "sense" the slow subtle drop in the benzo drop each day.  Precision can be very helpful in this regard.  Remember it is the Up-Regulation of the GABA receptors that we are seeking.  Slow, precise, gentle, consistent are the key cornerstones of a successful taper.

 

3.  I used pills for the bulk of my dose and used the liquid for the tapering portion.  In your case a sample taper schedule at 23mg could look like

 

First day

 

AM

2 -5mg pills   = 10mg

.50 of a 2mg pill=1mg

.50mg/ml of liquid V

 

Total AM =11.50

 

PM

2 -5mg pills   = 10mg

.50 of a 2mg pill=1mg

.50mg/ml of liquid V

 

Total PM =11.50

 

Total for day  =23mg

 

DAY 2

 

AM

2 -5mg pills   = 10mg

.50 of a 2mg pill=1mg

 

 

Total AM =11

 

PM

2 -5mg pills   = 10mg

.50 of a 2mg pill=1mg

 

 

Total PM =11

 

Total for day =22mg

 

Day 3

 

AM

2 -5mg pills   = 10mg

.50mg/ml of liquid V

 

Total AM =10.50

 

PM

2 -5mg pills   = 10mg

.50mg/ml of liquid V

 

Total PM =10.50

 

Total for day =21mg

 

So on and so forth.  Please let me know if this is not clear and you have any further questions.  I can help you further with syringes etc and how to dilute so you can make smaller cuts as you get lower in dose.  Congratulations for getting as far as you have come so far.  Huge huge accomplishment!  May be a good idea at this point to take it slow and let your body brain adjust to your HUGE reduction.  I know the sense of So wanting to be done but it is important to remain patient and kind to our body!!

All my best

Mimi

 

 

Hi Mimi,

I just got home from my doctors appointment and he prescribed Roxane Diazepam Solution 1mg/ml. I also picked up the prescription, which is 60 mg/ml bottle. What I am doing is all new to the doc and the pharmacist, they have never seen anyone titrate before. I'm trying to educate them as I am being educated.

 

As I look over what you have written, I am not clear on somethings. If I am reading it right it looks like I would be dropping 1mg. every day, which is a HUGE drop. I do have benzo brain , plus a lot going on in my mind trying to get this figured out. I am currently using mostly pills (10, 5, 2mg ) using liquid to taper.

 

Also, the syringe I'm using is a 1ml. gauge with 100 increments, split up into 10. Now, when I pull the needle off...don't need the needle, there is what I call a "barrel" and then there is the first line and 10 increments bringing it to .1. Do I count the "barrel" with the solution in it to measure .1?? Or, do I draw out the solution and discard the "barrel" portion back into the bottle?? Does this make sense??? I want to be precise on this.

 

Congratulations on your huge accomplishment and being benzo free!!!! Thank you so much for your help and support Mimi, hopefully I will be able to be there for others going through this journey.

 

Blessings to you,

RG

[[rh...]]

 

 

 

I realize you didn't ask this and is totally unsolicited, but in support of higher doses at night and lower in the morning, initially I started by taking my whole dose at night and then discovered that dosing more than once a day was beneficial.  It helped temper my mornings, but I've tried to keep that dose low simply because despite the fact that I'm going to come off of it all, I don't want to get too acclimated to a high morning dose and for me, increase the potential adaptation I believe I will then  have to readapt to as I cut that portion in the morning.  Not sure that makes sense and I do know that Ashton suggests the doses be evenly distributed, but for me I am more comfortable with this.

 

Hi WWWI,

You can give your input anytime . How are you doing with your daily titration? So, from what I gather you are taking the bulk of your dose at night too. I realize we are all different and it sure takes tweaking to find out what works best. Please keep me updated and let me know how you are doing.

 

Blessings to you,

RG

[[mt...]]

Hi RG

Sorry You are correct I had you going down 1mg NOT .1mg!  So sorry!  I am a bit out of it as my husband had to be hospitalized on Saturday due to an infection and I am fairly scattered and unfocused (still in hospital).  I am sure you get the gist of what I was trying to say in terms of using pills AND Liquid.  As for spacing out dosing I also began taking my dose all at night but once I was introduced to splitting doses it made sense to me.  As you get lower and lower in dose it may be even more helpful.  There were a few points in my taper where I had to spread my dose into 4 times a day to help keep symptoms at bay. 

 

There is more thought on the benefits of even dosing (both in times and amounts) then avoiding interdose withdrawal. Again the "theory" is that keeping blood levels stable (no peaks and valleys) allows your body to sense the drop in dose every 24 hours and "encourages" the GABA receptors to up-regulate.  You want to arrive at the end of your taper with your GABA receptors fully functioning. Slow precise and gentle supports the body in this mission.  Small gentle cuts do not send your body into a state of over excitability.  Therefore it is better able to do what it needs to do to heal.  Precision and consistency support the body to "anticipate" what is required each day to up-regulate. Almost like nudging your receptors back to life.

 

Of course no one knows scientifically what is best...it has never been researched.  Even the Ashton study only had about 300 participants. While valuable as it validates what we know-benzo dependency is REAL, there is much more work that needs to be done to fully know and understand the best practices where tapering is concerned. 

 

With all that said I think it best that you do all your own research and proceed with a plan that brings you peace of mind...and wellbeing.  I chose my path and have no regrets as I stepped off in relatively good shape.  Thank goodness as my husband certainly needs my support now!  Oh life life it is never ending....

 

All my best!

Mimi

[[rh...]]

Hi RG

Sorry You are correct I had you going down 1mg NOT .1mg!  So sorry!  I am a bit out of it as my husband had to be hospitalized on Saturday due to an infection and I am fairly scattered and unfocused (still in hospital).  I am sure you get the gist of what I was trying to say in terms of using pills AND Liquid.  As for spacing out dosing I also began taking my dose all at night but once I was introduced to splitting doses it made sense to me.  As you get lower and lower in dose it may be even more helpful.  There were a few points in my taper where I had to spread my dose into 4 times a day to help keep symptoms at bay. 

 

There is more thought on the benefits of even dosing (both in times and amounts) then avoiding interdose withdrawal. Again the "theory" is that keeping blood levels stable (no peaks and valleys) allows your body to sense the drop in dose every 24 hours and "encourages" the GABA receptors to up-regulate.  You want to arrive at the end of your taper with your GABA receptors fully functioning. Slow precise and gentle supports the body in this mission.  Small gentle cuts do not send your body into a state of over excitability.  Therefore it is better able to do what it needs to do to heal.  Precision and consistency support the body to "anticipate" what is required each day to up-regulate. Almost like nudging your receptors back to life.

 

Of course no one knows scientifically what is best...it has never been researched.  Even the Ashton study only had about 300 participants. While valuable as it validates what we know-benzo dependency is REAL, there is much more work that needs to be done to fully know and understand the best practices where tapering is concerned. 

 

With all that said I think it best that you do all your own research and proceed with a plan that brings you peace of mind...and wellbeing.  I chose my path and have no regrets as I stepped off in relatively good shape.  Thank goodness as my husband certainly needs my support now!  Oh life life it is never ending....

 

All my best!

Mimi

 

Hi Mimi,

I'm sorry to hear about your husband in the hospital. I hope he heals quickly so you and him can enjoy your wonderful life together. I figured it was a typo, so no problem .

 

I very much appreciate all your help and support, especially during this time in your life when your husband is hospitalized. It is so true that life is never ending.....

Take care of yourself and we will keep in touch.

All my love,

RG

[[rh...]]

Hi RG

Sorry You are correct I had you going down 1mg NOT .1mg!  So sorry!  I am a bit out of it as my husband had to be hospitalized on Saturday due to an infection and I am fairly scattered and unfocused (still in hospital).  I am sure you get the gist of what I was trying to say in terms of using pills AND Liquid.  As for spacing out dosing I also began taking my dose all at night but once I was introduced to splitting doses it made sense to me.  As you get lower and lower in dose it may be even more helpful.  There were a few points in my taper where I had to spread my dose into 4 times a day to help keep symptoms at bay. 

 

There is more thought on the benefits of even dosing (both in times and amounts) then avoiding interdose withdrawal. Again the "theory" is that keeping blood levels stable (no peaks and valleys) allows your body to sense the drop in dose every 24 hours and "encourages" the GABA receptors to up-regulate.  You want to arrive at the end of your taper with your GABA receptors fully functioning. Slow precise and gentle supports the body in this mission.  Small gentle cuts do not send your body into a state of over excitability.  Therefore it is better able to do what it needs to do to heal.  Precision and consistency support the body to "anticipate" what is required each day to up-regulate. Almost like nudging your receptors back to life.

 

Of course no one knows scientifically what is best...it has never been researched.  Even the Ashton study only had about 300 participants. While valuable as it validates what we know-benzo dependency is REAL, there is much more work that needs to be done to fully know and understand the best practices where tapering is concerned. 

 

With all that said I think it best that you do all your own research and proceed with a plan that brings you peace of mind...and wellbeing.  I chose my path and have no regrets as I stepped off in relatively good shape.  Thank goodness as my husband certainly needs my support now!  Oh life life it is never ending....

 

All my best!

Mimi

[[le...]]

Mimi,

 

So sorry to hear about your husband. Please keep us posted on how he is doing.

 

Love,

Leslie

[[rh...]]

Hi Mtmimi,

I've been using pills for the bulk of my daily dose, but liquid Valium for daily titrations. I've started with .1mg. reductions and have now been hit with insomnia and anxiety. I've been holding for 3 days now. I would like to reduce less than the .1mg, going down to .075mg.

 

When you were helping me when I first began the titration process, you told me to decrease to .75mg which is much larger than .1mg. I don't know if you meant .075mg. Could you help me out on this please?

 

 

thank you so much.

RG

[[mt...]]

Hi RG

Yes you are correct .075mg per day!  .  Basically I would look at the .1mg/ml lines on the syringe and just go down 3/4 of one of these lines.  If you want to go to .50mg per day then reduce by half of one of these lines .025mg would be a quarter of the space between each of these lines.  FYI I always cut my rate in half when reducing cut but go ahead and give the .075mg a try.

 

You are doing exactly as you should when symptoms spike- hold a few days and then reduce cut and proceed for a week or so and see how you feel.  If symptoms come back or do not get better then reduce again (to .05mg).  No rush keep your cut rate at the point where you have NO or very mild symptoms.  That is your sweet spot!!  Don't push ahead through symptoms....they are a sign your body cannot keep up regulating the receptors at your current taper rate.  If you try and bully your body into a taper that YOU BELIEVE is appropriate...you will NOT WIN!  LOL

 

I am sure you will feel better after a hold and cut reduction.  Glad you are responding so quickly!

Let me know how it goes...

Mimi

 

 

[[rh...]]

Hi RG

Yes you are correct .075mg per day!  .  Basically I would look at the .1mg/ml lines on the syringe and just go down 3/4 of one of these lines.  If you want to go to .50mg per day then reduce by half of one of these lines .025mg would be a quarter of the space between each of these lines.  FYI I always cut my rate in half when reducing cut but go ahead and give the .075mg a try.

 

You are doing exactly as you should when symptoms spike- hold a few days and then reduce cut and proceed for a week or so and see how you feel.  If symptoms come back or do not get better then reduce again (to .05mg).  No rush keep your cut rate at the point where you have NO or very mild symptoms.  That is your sweet spot!!  Don't push ahead through symptoms....they are a sign your body cannot keep up regulating the receptors at your current taper rate.  If you try and bully your body into a taper that YOU BELIEVE is appropriate...you will NOT WIN!  LOL

 

I am sure you will feel better after a hold and cut reduction.  Glad you are responding so quickly!

Let me know how it goes...

Mimi

 

Hi Mimi,

Thank you so much for all your help. I definitely don't want this to get out of control! I thought since I'm still up there in dose wise, that I would make a .025 reduction and see how that goes. If the insomnia and anxiety rear their ugly heads again, then I'll drop down to .05.

 

I slept really good last night and the anxiety is gone, so I'm going to start titrating today. I pray I find my sweet spot. Again I thank you so much for all the wonderful advice you have given me.

 

How are you  and your husband doing? Have a good evening.

 

Kate

 

[[mt...]]

HI Kate

You Will find your sweet spot...  I am sure you are feeling relief from holding a few days which is great.  Thats the beauty of tiny cuts-they are easy to correct is we over taper!!  FYI- for the future -Sometimes holding works and sometimes it does not.  What I ended up doing when symptoms appeared  (when holding did not seem to bring much relief) was to drop real low and use that rate for a few days and once symptoms subsided I would go back to my previous cut rate.  Its weird its almost like once the body gets use to accepting tiny cuts it does not want to stop...I have no idea why? 

 

As for the recent symptom flare it could be that your cuts just added up a bit and you needed a respite.  We want to cut every at a ate where our body can completely up regulate and match the cut in dose within each 24 hours.  If we are off a tiny sliver it can add up and we a flare that is handled with a hold or extremely tiny rate so body can catch up.  So in this recent case you can go slow for a few days and see then increase back to your  .1 cut and if you feel symptoms return after a few days then you will know you need to drop for sure.   

 

FYI-Sometimes I would get symptoms hold drop rate and then resume previous rate and I could march along for weeks and cut another few mgs and other times I would get symptomatic after a few days which would mean my body was done with that taper rate and I would cut it in half and march forward.

 

Its great that you have establisheds symptoms and can recognise when you have over tapered.  Bottom line the only way you know you patterns is to experiment and see what works for you.

 

Husband is healing and I am feeling much much better from all the stress and upset.  Looking forward to a truly peaceful Christmas!!

Keep in touch and let me know how you are moving along!

Mimi

 

 

[[mi...]]

Mimi,

 

So sorry to hear about your husband. Please keep us posted on how he is doing.

 

Love,

Leslie

 

Not sure what happened to your hubby.. I hope he is okay and well...I hope I do not get confused with titrating when it comes time to... I think it might be smoother if it worked for you mimi... Let me know when you will be around, and I will tell you what I have here as far as instruments.. I hope I can do this because of the math.. Hoping you are well today and your hubby gets better...

take care and thank you

luv

mishi

[[Gr...]]

Thinking of you, dear Mimi, 

 

Sending all good wishes of the Season to you and your husband (blessings for his health). Thank you for all that you bring in the way of experience, strength and hope to BB's, Mimi.

 

Love and blessings,

Gracie~

 

Merry Christmas~

 

[[rh...]]

Hi Mimi,

Stopping by to say Merry Christmas to you!! Hope you have a wonderful, peaceful holiday .

 

Love,

Kate

[[mt...]]

Thanks and a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of my BB's posting here and elsewhere!

 

I am happy to report that I had the Christmas I dreamed of... last Christmas.  Last year at this time I was near the end of my taper and I was a bit despondent that I had lost another Holiday to the Benzo ordeal.  I promised myself that if I was patient by NEXT Christmas I would have much of my life back and could celebrate as I once loved.  I am happy to report that my day was all I had hoped and longed for... I cooked a wonderful breakfast feast, opened presents with family, took an afternoon hike to a local park and lake where we sat in the sun watched my son's precious German Shorthair pointer jump in the water retrieving sticks.  Then back home to cook a big dinner for many of my old friends from visiting near and far.  I even had energy to clean the kitchen!!  I am so thankful for my recovery and the deep appreciation I have developed for much of what I once never even considered.  Little things like just being up and about for 12 hours and feeling well.  When I think of where I was a year ago, a thrill of joy and gratitude floods through my veins. 

 

I guess what I want to convey is to all of you out there still struggling wishing and wondering when this will all end...it will end and you will be well and you will have your life back...even better for all you have endured.  Be patient, one foot after the other...you are on the path.

 

Blessings to you

Mimi

[[Po...]]

Dear Mimi,

 

So happy to hear that you had the Christmas you wished for.  Gives inspiration to others.

 

Popcornlady

[Guest [Ru...]]

This is an older success story, but I'm bumping it for the useful, very detailed liquid Valium micro-tapering tips. 

 

Also, Mimi's beautiful photograph gave me a dream to reach for on this desperate evening...

 

Wishing all here beautiful healing and wholeness.

 

Lara ('Rubylove')

[[Ma...]]

Congratulations!  My history of use mixed with alcohol is much longer.  I have two choices: lay down and disintegrate or fight.  I am choosing to fight.  Even though I am now 65, where therenis life there is hope!  I hope to post on success blog someday.