Benzo withdrawal is caused by HISTAMINE!!!

[[no...]]

20 hours ago, [[o...] said:

Are smoked meats high in histamine?

Its not just histamine there are a zillion other things in smoked food you could be reacting to , I can't tolerate them since withdrawal and while I'm still tapering either, but it's ALL due to withdraw itself. 

Look at the big picture if you didn't have it before withdrawal then it's a reaction of a deranged central nervous system trying to repair its self, in other words this needs to hapen also healing is painful and not linear and what we fear is a 'bad reaction' or a 'set back'  is more likely to be the body trying to repair another withdrawal induced issue symptoms .

 

 

Edited February 25 by [no...]

[[no...]]

This post here by Dr Jennifer Leigh about her personal experience with  Benzo withdrawal hell says it all

Quote

 

Ending The Search For A Cure

by Jennifer Leigh,   Nov 5, 2018

It’s hard to believe that there is no cure for benzodiazepine withdrawal.

I used to scratch my head and wonder how we could put a man on the moon, but we couldn’t seem to find a cure (or even much relief, for that matter) for benzo withdrawal. When I was suffering horribly after my cold turkey from the benzo I had taken as prescribed, I spent a lot of time online researching everything I could in hopes of finding a way out. Was inositol a help? Or niacin? What about the MTHFR gene mutation? Wouldn’t some L-methyl folate help with that? Maybe acupuncture or massage would do the trick. I tried a lot of different supplements, foods, therapies, and gizmos and gadgets. Nothing worked to take away my symptoms. And some things made me feel worse. A lot worse.

I wasted a lot of money.

I was desperate for relief and believed that I would find the answer to withdrawal suffering, even though all the people who had suffered before me had never found the answer. My search for a cure didn’t help my recovery; it only helped to empty my savings account. There wasn’t anything that helped my receptors heal any faster; there no way out but through.

Most doctors don’t know about benzo withdrawal.

I wasted a lot of time and energy, too. I wanted a doctor to validate what I was experiencing, but none of them knew anything about withdrawal. A few promised that they did, but they didn’t. I used to argue with doctors, doing my best to explain to them that I was in benzo withdrawal, but it didn’t do any good. They didn’t believe me and often gave me very bad advice or an erroneous diagnosis. It’s demoralizing to suffer because of the medical community and then to be either ignored or disbelieved by that community.

The definition of insanity is…

Doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different outcome. I felt sorta crazy, or at least out of control, until I stopped searching frantically for some way out of benzo withdrawal. So I finally stopped seeing doctors for every odd symptom I had. It wasn’t worth the anger and frustration I felt. And I stopped searching online for a cure.  I came to understand that there are no pills, no potions, no lotions, no vitamins, no supplements, no therapies, no treatments, that can hasten the recovery of GABA receptors.

There wasn’t much I could do other than good self-care and patience.

I learned to eat really healthily, avoid stress, find ways to distract, to be of service, to practice acceptance, and to be patient. I stopped spending hours and hours online googling for something to “save me,” and I got on with my life as best as I could. I stopped thinking that there was a pill or a supplement that would erase my suffering. I knew that there wasn’t. I learned how to cope with my insomnia, pain, weakness, fatigue, tingles, blurry vision, and even anxiety and depression. Not that it was fun, but I managed to keep going.

Acceptance reduces suffering.

When I got on with my life and accepted that I had to wait for my nervous system to recover from the damage caused by the benzo, I felt stronger, more empowered. When I stopped searching for a cure and instead asked myself (and God) how I was going to cope and what I was going to do, I turned a corner emotionally; I stopped feeling like a victim. From there, I began to mature spiritually. Acceptance wasn’t just a way to get through benzo withdrawal, it was a way to face all of my life. And I embraced it with both arms, for it helped me to be at peace, which in turn helped me to heal the things that got me on the medication to begin with!

It’s okay to stop searching.

It’s okay to stop searching for a way out of benzo withdrawal. It’s okay to practice extreme self-care-—to rest, avoid stress, and to eat clean and healthily. It’s okay to stop trying to get doctors to understand or believe you. It’s okay to let family and friends think what they will about you. It’s okay to be patient; knowing in your heart that one day, you will recover. It’s okay to live just in today, not looking back with regret or ahead with worry. It’s okay to be you, just as you are, right now.

 

 

Edited February 25 by [no...]

[[no...]]

On 24/02/2024 at 10:07, [[W...] said:

So no, I'm not buying this histamine theory at all. It is similar to the chemical imbalance theory around depression, when surprise, surprise, it turns out people are depressed because their lives are difficult.

  Glad to see someone's talking sense and not parroted dogma

 

Nova

[[no...]]

On 24/02/2024 at 09:39, [[W...] said:

The truth is that nobody knows what’s really going on. I had a horrific setback/relapse from a hormonal med and an antibiotic. I am sicker than originally, new symptoms in my CNS, a year and a half later still getting worse. So I agree it’s not only GABA either. 
However, I have seasonal allergies and them flaring (so there is a lot of histamine released) has nothing to do with my neurological symptoms when if it had to do with histamine only it should. I don’t react to high histamine foods. I haven’t noticed any correlation between my symptoms other than the ones connected with allergies and histamine. I don’t really share symptoms with MCAS people. 

IMHO it’s a dysregulation of many parts of the CNS, not just one. The thing is that when one neurotransmitter is disrupted, others follow because the homeostasis is disrupted. And that might be why people have similar issues from benzos, antidepressants and other meds like antibiotics, hormonal meds, steroids and so on. 

Same again to your comment .... Glad to see someone's talking sense and not parroted dogma

 

Nova

[[no...]]

Look at the search for 'histamine'  on this link > HISTAMINE

There's  228 pages and 1000s upon 1000s of posts on it  nearly gong back to BC never mind BB,

If it were 'All histamine related'  by now this forum shouldn't exist as it wouldn't be needed as we'd all have been cured by now or not even anyone ever  again suffering  from Benzo withdrawal   AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!! ......

 

Nova

Edited February 25 by [no...]

[[Kr...]]

20 hours ago, [[n...] said:

bwhittters, hi your post caught my eye. I'm no expert for sure but i think ive found a link. I started eliminating different foods over 3 yrs ago. One by one certain foods I couldn't tolerate and linked it to histamine. A couple weeks ago I started researching the foods I eliminated with high glutamate and or added msg. All, all of those foods are high in glutamate or msg, pretty much the same thing but almost all food is natural in glutamate. 

All canned goods, high in glutamate 

Milk, butter, dairy

Wheat, gluten, glutamate even sugar, fruit.

Soy, garlic 

Olives 

Vinegar 

I could go on and on

If you make a list of the foods you cannot eat, research glutamate content or ask if it's high in glutamate, I'm sure you'll be amazed. 

Then make a list of the foods you can tolerate and ck those.

Most of what I can eat is low glutamate, but some are pretty high. None are high histamine except avocado which I can tolerate a couple times a week, I need the fat.

Benzos lower gaba, glutamate becomes dominate In the brain when gaba is low, from what I understand. I could be wrong, it's from Google!

I did my best to research this.

I feel as though I have been plugged in to an electrical socket and my symptoms are the worst.  But when I eat those foods I eliminated its much worse so, I know it's not an allergy, but something else. 

I.think we are hypersensitive to everything and food is no exception. 

Hopefully you'll find a connection, although idk how to avoid the only foods I can tolerate now.

I hope you feel better soon, I know you've suffered a very long time.

Ns

😢😥😥

[[ns...]]

9 hours ago, [[n...] said:

This post here by Dr Jennifer Leigh about her personal experience with  Benzo withdrawal hell says it all

Thank u for this!

[[ns...]]

9 hours ago, [[n...] said:

This post here by Dr Jennifer Leigh about her personal experience with  Benzo withdrawal hell says it all

Thank nova 1 for this post from Dr Jennifer Leigh! I think this will help many! 

[[De...]]

There are studies comming out, gaba receptors internalizing and uncouple from exposure to benzodiazepines, the subunits expression change 

 

 

Diazepam-Induced Down-Regulation of the GABAA receptor α1 Subunit, as mediated by the activation of L-Type Voltage-Gated calcium Channel/Ca2+/Protein kinase a signaling cascade

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37356564/

 

Up-regulation of L-type high voltage-gated calcium channel subunits by sustained exposure to 1,4- and 1,5-benzodiazepines in cerebrocortical neurons

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17949410/

Diazepam-induced transcriptional regulation of GABAA receptor alpha 1 subunit via L-type voltage-gated calcium channel activation1 subunit gene in rat cerebrocortical neurons

https://ri.conicet.gov.ar/handle/11336/196720

 

This l type calcium channels have a wide range of transcriptional effects by itself, 

 

Nimodipine, an L-type calcium channel blocker attenuates mitochondrial dysfunctions to protect against 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine-induced Parkinsonism in mice. Neurochem Int.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27395789/#:~:text=Parkinsonism in mice-,Nimodipine%2C an L-type calcium channel blocker attenuates mitochondrial dysfunctions,Neurochem Int.

 

 

Activation of GABA(A) receptors inhibits T cell proliferation

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8136847/

 

Benzodiazepines basically leads to a multi sistêmic , mithocodrial damaging auto-imune and demyelinating decease 

 

Its then a T Cell mediated auto-imune reaction, aside from the intracellular calcium overload that damages the brain by itself, the gaba receptors dysfunction and issues with its phosphorylation also plays a role, 

Diazepam inhibits calcium, calmodulin-dependent protein kinase in primary astrocyte cultures

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2540886/

 

Diazepam Accelerates GABAAR Synaptic Exchange and Alters Intracellular Trafficking

 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fncel.2019.00163/full

 

L-type channels are extensively distributed on central neurons [38, 39], and play significant roles in dendritic and somatic Ca2+ accumulation [40-42], gene expression [43], and excitability [44]. While regulated Ca2+ accumulation underlies much physiological signaling, un-regulated neuronal Ca2+ overload has long been established as a mechanism of neuronal injury. 

 

Nimodipine Reappraised: An Old Drug with a Future

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7327937/

 

ytes and ...

de S Leisz · 2019 · Citado por 29 — The calcium antagonist nimodipine binds to the α1-subunit of calcium channels and regulates the calcium influx. Nimodipine treatment is used ...

Nimodipine-Dependent Protection of Schwann Cells, Astrocytes and Neuronal Cells from Osmotic, Oxidative and Heat Stress Is Associated with the Activation of AKT and CREB

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6770698/

Edited February 26 by [De...]

[[Le...]]

On 24/02/2024 at 22:09, [[b...] said:

Theres is just way too much evidence of people having severe reactions to histamine type foods to go un-noticed.

Its foolish to think its actually not part of a BIGGER picture due to benzo withdrawal.

I agree with you a 100%. I am almost 2 years off and just being tested for mast cells. 24 hours histamine in urine, blood tryptase etc I was on a benzo and Lexapro so I'm double screwed.. I have to say I have allergies prior to taking this meds but life has been absolutely hell since I stopped them.

 

At first, I was so focus on the "serotonin, gaba receptors blah blah theory from all the forums"  but after being sicker and sicker and finding tons of information about how this meds affects histamine and mast cells it makes completely sense that all of this symptoms are in a huge proportion caused by a histamine rebound and mast cells going nuts. Again, this might or not apply to everybody but a really big part of us. I think people focus way too much on the "old theory" when it is indeed something else caused by this meds and unfortunately that is Mast cells issues.

 

I'm from Spain so sorry if my English is not the greatest.

Edited February 26 by [Le...]

[[bw...]]

Its bit more complicated than just histamine

 

H1 . H2. H3. H4 receptors.

23 hours ago, [[n...] said:

Look at the search for 'histamine'  on this link > HISTAMINE

There's  228 pages and 1000s upon 1000s of posts on it  nearly gong back to BC never mind BB,

If it were 'All histamine related'  by now this forum shouldn't exist as it wouldn't be needed as we'd all have been cured by now or not even anyone ever  again suffering  from Benzo withdrawal   AAAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!! ......

Nova

 

18) Nath C, Gupta MB. Role of central histaminergic system in lorazepam withdrawal syndrome in rats. Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior. 2001 Apr 30;68(4):777-82. PubMed link

This study investigated the effect of histaminergic agonists and antagonists in withdrawal from lorazepam in rats by administering these compounds to rats after withdrawing them from lorazepam and measuring withdrawal symptoms. Histamine-N-methyl, which is an agonist of the H3 receptor, as well as the H1 receptor antagonists promethazine and pheniramine, blocked all of the withdrawal symptoms. The authors conclude that histamine H1 receptors are facilitators and H3 receptors are inhibitors concerning benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome.

 

[[Pa...]]

5 hours ago, [[L...] said:

I agree with you a 100%. I am almost 2 years off and just being tested for mast cells. 24 hours histamine in urine, blood tryptase etc I was on a benzo and Lexapro so I'm double screwed.. I have to say I have allergies prior to taking this meds but life has been absolutely hell since I stopped them.

At first, I was so focus on the "serotonin, gaba receptors blah blah theory from all the forums"  but after being sicker and sicker and finding tons of information about how this meds affects histamine and mast cells it makes completely sense that all of this symptoms are in a huge proportion caused by a histamine rebound and mast cells going nuts. Again, this might or not apply to everybody but a really big part of us. I think people focus way too much on the "old theory" when it is indeed something else caused by this meds and unfortunately that is Mast cells issues.

I'm from Spain so sorry if my English is not the greatest.

Hello @[Le...], welcome to BenzoBuddie,

Thanks for joining the conversation and providing your experience but I'm sorry to hear its been so miserable. 

@[Pa...]

[[4M...]]

Which ones? H1, H2, H3, or H4 receptors?

[[no...]]

On 26/02/2024 at 11:00, [[b...] said:

Its bit more complicated than just histamine

Yes, it is that was my whole point

Nova

[[Na...]]

I have to say after being here for 10 years I can’t tell you how many all caps multiple exclamation point posts that I’ve seen that said in essence “Eureka! I’ve found it!”. All very well intentioned, but all equally fruitless unfortunately. Heck, I suspect I might have authored one or two of them.

Over the years I’ve seen multiple declarations that histamine (or Mast Cell Activation Syndrome) was the root cause of BIND/Protracted Withdrawal. They even convinced me to the extent that I undertook an extensive program based around that theory. I assembled some of the best mast cell stabilizers (Ketotifen, PEA, cromolyn), H1 blockers, H2 blockers, etc. Low histamine diets, yada yada yada. Other things I’m leaving out.

At first I thought it was helping, but ultimately nothing panned out.

Like I said, others have been down the histamine path in the decade I’ve been here. If histamine/MCAS was the root cause for most people I feel like we’d know about it and everyone would be treating themselves accordingly.

I don’t mean to be discouraging but unfortunately this isn’t unplowed ground.

Hopefully one day one of you will figure this out and we’ll all get well. I’m just afraid this isn’t likely to be the solution for most people.

That said, if this was the first time I’d heard about it I’d probably give it a try. I’ll try almost anything that seems like it might help and doesn’t sound too risky.

Edited March 7 by [Na...]

[[Kr...]]

@[Na...]❤️❤️❤️

[[ns...]]

On 07/03/2024 at 07:48, [[N...] said:

I have to say after being here for 10 years I can’t tell you how many all caps multiple exclamation point posts that I’ve seen that said in essence “Eureka! I’ve found it!”. All very well intentioned, but all equally fruitless unfortunately. Heck, I suspect I might have authored one or two of them.

Over the years I’ve seen multiple declarations that histamine (or Mast Cell Activation Syndrome) was the root cause of BIND/Protracted Withdrawal. They even convinced me to the extent that I undertook an extensive program based around that theory. I assembled some of the best mast cell stabilizers (Ketotifen, PEA, cromolyn), H1 blockers, H2 blockers, etc. Low histamine diets, yada yada yada. Other things I’m leaving out.

At first I thought it was helping, but ultimately nothing panned out.

Like I said, others have been down the histamine path in the decade I’ve been here. If histamine/MCAS was the root cause for most people I feel like we’d know about it and everyone would be treating themselves accordingly.

I don’t mean to be discouraging but unfortunately this isn’t unplowed ground.

Hopefully one day one of you will figure this out and we’ll all get well. I’m just afraid this isn’t likely to be the solution for most people.

That said, if this was the first time I’d heard about it I’d probably give it a try. I’ll try almost anything that seems like it might help and doesn’t sound too risky.

Yes Nathan from Arizona, I'm with you!

I too have authored these posts and have recently Said I do not believe histamine is the cause of my food issues or withdrawal symptoms. 

It is interesting though  so many have these same intolerances but ive linked it to msg and high glutamate foods but of course I'm probably off there too.

I eliminated so many foods over 3 yrs time. When I looked at my menu, I wondered if my intolerances could be caused by something other than histamine. So I researched every food I can tolerate and every food I can't. Eureka, I've found it lol.

Every food I can tolerate is low in glutamate or no msg, every food I can't tolerate his high in msg or glutamate, so I began slowly adding them back in and same issue, I still cannot eat canned foods, fast foods and much more.

I dont really believe it's the actual glutamate, I think it's due to what benzos do to cause a chemical imbalance in the brain, causing an imbalance of high glutamate and low gaba. Idk, and i reakt dont need to know now, but I just know what makes me feel better and what triggers my symptoms. 

Anyway, I think we all try to search out answers and that's OK, it keeps us busy lol, I'm one who normally has to have answers for everything. Now, I just do what works and get on with the ride!

Take care 

Ns

[[4M...]]

It's well documented. Benzo withdrawal is caused by upregulation of gabaA receptors with the alpha4 subunit. (Causing a downregulation in the alpha1, alpha2, and alpha3 subunits)

The only way to cure long term benzo brain damage would be to find a way to stop the over gene expression of gabaA receptors with the alpha4 subunits in the synapse.

I have said this many times on this forum. Benzo receptors don't get "damaged". It's just that the subunits get out of wack do to gene expression changes of the SUBUNITS)

That being said. High histamine is definitely an issue in long term Benzo withdrawal.

Edited March 24 by [4M...]

[[do...]]

On 24/02/2024 at 17:41, [[b...] said:

Im hoping the brain heals itself with given time. I do think unfortuatley setbacks are not to good to have. In general. The brain creates those memories. The one im in is Severe.

I just bought some beef kidney pills. They are 100% freeze drief beef kidney. Hoping it will help. I will no longer take any lab or pharmacy grade shit.  beef kidney suppose to boost dao in the gut. So we will see..

Hi bwhittters, how is the dried beef kidney? is it helping? because im having the same problem and wants to try if it helps. i hope everything is going well for you

[[bw...]]

yes amazing. they work. 

buy from ancestral supplments or CELL SQUARED.

[[do...]]

aha, will try and back here with the result

[[cu...]]

On 24/02/2024 at 12:00, [[W...] said:

Yeah, I don’t even take tylenol.
Just try to go slow with supplements too. I had reactions to the most innocuous things.
 

I do hope I will heal too but it’s been so bad lately, why getting worse after so much time. I feel like the electricity in my body has gone haywire. Yuck! I think the neuroplasticity theory is at play here when symptoms get worse with time. But very hard to work with that. I am trying, though. 

@[Wi...] Can you explain what you mean with the neuroplasticity comment? I thought neuroplasticity was a good thing? Although I realize it's usually not that simple and black and white, I would think it would aid healing in this case, not hinder it.

[[St...]]

On 25/02/2024 at 05:43, [[n...] said:

people are stopping eating the foods they actually need to recover out of needles fear, I have days when even simple spring water going down feels like it's causing problems, but it's nothing at all to do with the water but due to our scrambled brain signals while our central nervous system is in disarray so eat the food you enjoy.

I appreciate you for writing this. It's just nice to know I'm maybe not the only one who has assumed everything I ingest is causing symptoms at some point or another hah