Benzo withdrawal is caused by HISTAMINE!!!

[[bw...]]

I put up a post about this months ago and im here to start it again. 

I am 100% convinced that benzo withdrawal is COMPLETLEY Histamine related.

First and foremost I do not believe this theory of down regulated "gaba receptors". Ashton mentions this in her studies. And quite astounding really that she doesnt touch the topic of histamine as the cause.

I do not believe this to be the case Whatsoever.. only short term is a possibility of what she is saying. 6 or 9 years off? Not at all about Gaba Downregulation.

Hop on over to any anti depressant, lyme and long covid groups and you will find you all share the EXACT same symptoms. Quite frankly antidepressants do not touch GABA receptors.yet they have YEARS of suffering just like you. Which can easily disprove. Like many antidepressants benzos are potent mast cell stablizers.

Bassically any symptom that we complain of can be followed by - histamine in google.

 

Its said up to 17% of the worlds population has a underlying histamine disorder.  yes you read that correctly.

I believe the ones that are in recovery a LOOONG time actually become MCAS. Withdrawal induced. Like myself at now 6.5 years off.

Setbacks are purely mast cell degranulation. You will find most people have extreme reactions to most antibiotics after feeling better which indicates it destroys the gut. Dao enzyme which is putting a brake on histamine and it goes rife to extreme levels. The grim reality is that you "lie in wait" until your next trigger. Theres many in this group are a decade off and still having setbacks.

The amount of people here that complain of "food sensitivities, medication sensitivities is frightening. What is more concerning is that litterally noone has a DEFINATE answer as to what is really happenning and these drugs have been around for decades. And theres barely any suggestions that benzo withdrawal induces MCAS.

Noone EVER questions as to why do we advocate for low histamine diets on this group? Its always the same. Dont eat diary. Wheat and ALWAYS go low histamine. Anyone actually questioned why?

 

So... you have the symptoms below like the most of us do??? Are you..

Dizzy? Histamine in the inner ear.

Ear pressure? Histamine.

Nose congestion? Histamine.

Nerve burning and tingling - Histamine

PAIN IN ALL YOUR JOINTS? Pain in your spine and throughout your body? Thats histamine. It causes INFLAMMATION when it runs rampant.

Intense anxiety,fear, ocd = way excess of histamine.

You got benzo belly and Gi disturbances and reflux huh? - histamine.

Terrible headaches aka Head pressure? Thats a histamine headache like people with covid get. You know what they give you in hospital ? Pepcid. (H2 anthistamine). It was a frontline drug in the pandemic for the atypical covid headaches

Cortisol rushes waking you up a night? thats just Excess histamine

Like mentioned earlier. Type your symptom in google followed by histamine and read the many studies available on pubmed. And before you all run off and start taking antihistamines BE WARNED. Read below...

I myself took pepcid (h2 antihistamine) for my test and I was correct.. I had near completely 100% relief from all my symptoms initially. i was jumping for joy intially.  I loved it so much that I took it for 28 days and was loving my life. and it turned on me like a snake and suddenly. I started to notice it had a rebound type effect if I didnt take a dose of it.

My histamine seemed to build up in my body and just released a beast within me. I am now battling a 12month long acute setback which nearly has sent me to hospital numerous times with variad of extreme symptoms which is way worse than intial ACUTE CT withdrawal.  It was like a re- bound effect of the suppression of histamine. Im fighting for my life daily still with severe typical acute withdrawal symptoms. Akathesia included.

And I Also dont recommend you go have a big bowl of sauerkraut with soy sauce to test this theory either . (Dont do this,you will be in hell).

If you dwelve into the mcas community they share the same symptoms as YOU do. They also have reactions to all medications and even the medications that are suppose to help like antihistamines and cromlym sodium etc.

My thoughts which I believe is the answer to all this.

Im ready for a healthy debate whether you think otherwise than withdrawal is purely histamine related.

 

Edited February 24 by [bw...]

[[Sl...]]

How do we heal histamine receptor?

Does it go back to normal with TIME? 
 

How about DAO supplements, Quercetin, stinging nettle, beef kidney.Do you know if it will help in normalising histamine receptor? 
 

 

Edited February 24 by [Sl...]

[[Wi...]]

The truth is that nobody knows what’s really going on. I had a horrific setback/relapse from a hormonal med and an antibiotic. I am sicker than originally, new symptoms in my CNS, a year and a half later still getting worse. So I agree it’s not only GABA either. 
However, I have seasonal allergies and them flaring (so there is a lot of histamine released) has nothing to do with my neurological symptoms when if it had to do with histamine only it should. I don’t react to high histamine foods. I haven’t noticed any correlation between my symptoms other than the ones connected with allergies and histamine. I don’t really share symptoms with MCAS people. 

IMHO it’s a dysregulation of many parts of the CNS, not just one. The thing is that when one neurotransmitter is disrupted, others follow because the homeostasis is disrupted. And that might be why people have similar issues from benzos, antidepressants and other meds like antibiotics, hormonal meds, steroids and so on. 

Edited February 24 by [Wi...]

[[PE...]]

I take a antihistamine/Theralene for sleep sometimes it have no effect on me.

[[WU...]]

Histamine increases in the body with stress. Allergies increase with stress. Conversely endorphins are produced in response to pleasurable experiences.  Basically our bodies produce these different chemicals as a response to our state of being. 

So no, I'm not buying this histamine theory at all. It is similar to the chemical imbalance theory around depression, when surprise, surprise, it turns out people are depressed because their lives are difficult.

 

 

 

[[bw...]]

Im hoping the brain heals itself with given time. I do think unfortuatley setbacks are not to good to have. In general. The brain creates those memories. The one im in is Severe.

I just bought some beef kidney pills. They are 100% freeze drief beef kidney. Hoping it will help. I will no longer take any lab or pharmacy grade shit.  beef kidney suppose to boost dao in the gut. So we will see..

[[Wi...]]

16 minutes ago, [[b...] said:

Im hoping the brain heals itself with given time. I do think unfortuatley setbacks are not to good to have. In general. The brain creates those memories. The one im in is Severe.

I just bought some beef kidney pills. They are 100% freeze drief beef kidney. Hoping it will help. I will no longer take any lab or pharmacy grade shit.  beef kidney suppose to boost dao in the gut. So we will see..

Yeah, I don’t even take tylenol.
Just try to go slow with supplements too. I had reactions to the most innocuous things.
 

I do hope I will heal too but it’s been so bad lately, why getting worse after so much time. I feel like the electricity in my body has gone haywire. Yuck! I think the neuroplasticity theory is at play here when symptoms get worse with time. But very hard to work with that. I am trying, though. 

[[no...]]

4 hours ago, [[b...] said:

I put up a post about this months ago and im here to start it again. 

I am 100% convinced that benzo withdrawal is COMPLETLEY Histamine related.

First and foremost I do not believe this theory of down regulated "gaba receptors". Ashton mentions this in her studies. And quite astounding really that she doesnt touch the topic of histamine as the cause.

I do not believe this to be the case Whatsoever.. only short term is a possibility of what she is saying. 6 or 9 years off? Not at all about Gaba Downregulation.

Hop on over to any anti depressant, lyme and long covid groups and you will find you all share the EXACT same symptoms. Quite frankly antidepressants do not touch GABA receptors.yet they have YEARS of suffering just like you. Which can easily disprove. Like many antidepressants benzos are potent mast cell stablizers.

Bassically any symptom that we complain of can be followed by - histamine in google.

 

Its said up to 17% of the worlds population has a underlying histamine disorder.  yes you read that correctly.

I believe the ones that are in recovery a LOOONG time actually become MCAS. Withdrawal induced. Like myself at now 6.5 years off.

Setbacks are purely mast cell degranulation. You will find most people have extreme reactions to most antibiotics after feeling better which indicates it destroys the gut. Dao enzyme which is putting a brake on histamine and it goes rife to extreme levels. The grim reality is that you "lie in wait" until your next trigger. Theres many in this group are a decade off and still having setbacks.

The amount of people here that complain of "food sensitivities, medication sensitivities is frightening. What is more concerning is that litterally noone has a DEFINATE answer as to what is really happenning and these drugs have been around for decades. And theres barely any suggestions that benzo withdrawal induces MCAS.

Noone EVER questions as to why do we advocate for low histamine diets on this group? Its always the same. Dont eat diary. Wheat and ALWAYS go low histamine. Anyone actually questioned why?

 

So... you have the symptoms below like the most of us do??? Are you..

Dizzy? Histamine in the inner ear.

Ear pressure? Histamine.

Nose congestion? Histamine.

Nerve burning and tingling - Histamine

PAIN IN ALL YOUR JOINTS? Pain in your spine and throughout your body? Thats histamine. It causes INFLAMMATION when it runs rampant.

Intense anxiety,fear, ocd = way excess of histamine.

You got benzo belly and Gi disturbances and reflux huh? - histamine.

Terrible headaches aka Head pressure? Thats a histamine headache like people with covid get. You know what they give you in hospital ? Pepcid. (H2 anthistamine). It was a frontline drug in the pandemic for the atypical covid headaches

Cortisol rushes waking you up a night? thats just Excess histamine

Like mentioned earlier. Type your symptom in google followed by histamine and read the many studies available on pubmed. And before you all run off and start taking antihistamines BE WARNED. Read below...

I myself took pepcid (h2 antihistamine) for my test and I was correct.. I had near completely 100% relief from all my symptoms initially. i was jumping for joy intially.  I loved it so much that I took it for 28 days and was loving my life. and it turned on me like a snake and suddenly. I started to notice it had a rebound type effect if I didnt take a dose of it.

My histamine seemed to build up in my body and just released a beast within me. I am now battling a 12month long acute setback which nearly has sent me to hospital numerous times with variad of extreme symptoms which is way worse than intial ACUTE CT withdrawal.  It was like a re- bound effect of the suppression of histamine. Im fighting for my life daily still with severe typical acute withdrawal symptoms. Akathesia included.

And I Also dont recommend you go have a big bowl of sauerkraut with soy sauce to test this theory either . (Dont do this,you will be in hell).

If you dwelve into the mcas community they share the same symptoms as YOU do. They also have reactions to all medications and even the medications that are suppose to help like antihistamines and cromlym sodium etc.

My thoughts which I believe is the answer to all this.

Im ready for a healthy debate whether you think otherwise than withdrawal is purely histamine related.

 

No its not, some people ''may'' have histamine problems caused by withdrawal, but it doesn't apply to everyone, our big problem is central nervous system dysregulation which will take the body quite sometime to repair depending on how we as individuals have been effected. And our hormones are trashed too, because benzos batter the HPA axis (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis)  so it's a lot for the body to unravel and repair, withdrawal from benzos is also known as 'The great masquerader as it mimics 1000s of  different illnesses, syndromes, autoimmune diseases .
etc, etc 

Introduction to the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis: Healthy and Dysregulated Stress Responses, Developmental Stress and Neurodegeneration


Nova

[[no...]]

1 hour ago, [[W...] said:

Im hoping the brain heals itself with given time.

It does, it's a lot quicker for some than others, and age, dose, and length of time on has nothing to do with it at all, I've seen people on here who have   been on them 50 years + a high dose in their late 70s and older heal a lot faster than a 21-year-old or even younger on a low dose for a very short time.

 

Nova

[[Pa...]]

For those with histamine issues, unfortunately Pepcid is a double edge sword as it kills DAO enzyme (which itself, is mast cell stabilizer). I’m sorry you had such a bad rebound, just wondering if this may have played a role? 

Histamine is just one piece of a complex puzzle here, but yes, it likely plays some role with benzos being mast cell stabilizers. It seems starting with a low histamine diet would give some control to the amount of histamine coming in. Of course, it takes more than diet to control mast cell issues, as diet alone won’t stabilize mast cell issues within the body. But at least less histamine is coming in to contend with. 

[[Mu...]]

I attended a BBQ several years ago on a military base in Louisiana. Three young men were taken to the medical unit after eating hickory smoked meats and complaining of a variety of symptoms. All three were from northern states and lived intercity,  possibly unaccustomed to such heavily smoked products. All three recovered from high levels of histamine. Being from Alabama , I have felt strange after consuming smoked sausage or bacon which is everywhere. Are smoked meats high in histamine?

Music60 

[[ji...]]

this is very interesting to me~~i will be following hoping for some more info on this

[[or...]]

23 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

I attended a BBQ several years ago on a military base in Louisiana. Three young men were taken to the medical unit after eating hickory smoked meats and complaining of a variety of symptoms. All three were from northern states and lived intercity,  possibly unaccustomed to such heavily smoked products. All three recovered from high levels of histamine. Being from Alabama , I have felt strange after consuming smoked sausage or bacon which is everywhere. Are smoked meats high in histamine?

Music60 

I stay away, as best I can, from processed foods of any type.  I don't care for much "extra" on my non-processed foods other than a bit of salt. 

This incident is not that shocking to me as I'm on Keto, going on 4 years and learn a lot on my Ketogenic forum, my other support group I don't even eat in restaurants any longer because I want to know all about what I'm being served, and I can't know that so I buy all my own groceries, and cook my own meals, which believe me, I never much did until I was into my 50s.

Whether this is a true statement or not is up to us to decide.  I found it by googling:

Any meat that has been preserved by smoking, curing or salting is processed. It's from this site: https://www.mdanderson.org/publications/focused-on-health/eat-less-processed-meat.h11-1590624.html

I'm sure there are other opinions, there always are, but that's why I realize too well that I need to make my own decisions on what I put in my body oregonlady

Edited February 24 by [or...]

[[ro...]]

Deleted

Edited February 24 by [ro...]
Deleted

[[or...]]

My experience in the 3 or so years on a low-histamine diet, before I found BB and how to taper slowly off a benzo, is that the low-histamine diet has served me very well in my opinion.  Both the slow taper, my nutrition and exercise all go hand in hand for me.

So many things have improved, blood tests show it and how I feel stronger at 71 than I did at 40 or 50.  I was on C 1mg tablet 35 years and my wd sxs are very minimal comparatively speaking. oregonlady I'm only just under halfway finished with my taper from pill-weight-dose of .095g.

PS I had a pretty extreme reaction to spinach day before yesterday, plus, was reminded here by a post that I needed to watch out for high-histamine foods

[[Pa...]]

3 hours ago, [[o...] said:

My experience in the 3 or so years on a low-histamine diet, before I found BB and how to taper slowly off a benzo, is that the low-histamine diet has served me very well in my opinion.  Both the slow taper, my nutrition and exercise all go hand in hand for me.

So many things have improved, blood tests show it and how I feel stronger at 71 than I did at 40 or 50.  I was on C 1mg tablet 35 years and my wd sxs are very minimal comparatively speaking. oregonlady I'm only just under halfway finished with my taper from pill-weight-dose of .095g.

PS I had a pretty extreme reaction to spinach day before yesterday, plus, was reminded here by a post that I needed to watch out for high-histamine foods

I also eat low histamine, no processed foods. I don’t do take out either. Although I can’t say for sure an organic, low histamine diet has helped (my taper had been ok until recently), I do believe I’d feel even worse if I didn’t eat as carefully as I do. 

Smoked meats are particularly high in histamines.  I notice an uptick in symptoms when I eat any meat. I  only eat antibiotic free/grass fed/organic. Meat  is higher in histamine unless it’s freshly butchered right off the farm and consumed immediately or frozen. I still eat meat but in moderation for the b12/iron.
 

It’s good that Keto works for you, and that you are feeling your best at 71! I’ve read keto has worked for others too. I wish I could benefit from it. I am 58 and feel like I’m 100, unfortunately. But I have several underlying health issues, including some mcas issues. 

You mentioned spinich. It is high histamine. I think like cruciferous vegetables, spinich may block absorption of benzo(?)I remember reading about some foods blocking benzo absorption, sometime back on this forum…just not sure if spinich was on that list. 

[[or...]]

Well I wanted to "like" your reply but I'm out of "likes" it says   So I'll just say thank you for your comments.  I am also sorry about the underlying issues you have.  I have a few, maybe I should go ahead and mention.  In '97 I was diagnosed with a 3rd degree AV Node Block.  A pacemaker probably saved my life, because with only a 40 beats per minute on my own steam, my heart would have enlarged.  That's what I saw as the alternative. 

I also have what I believe to be a tremor which I inherited from my dad.  I doubt that will go away, but I'm not placing any bets right now You never know

 

Anyway, no meds prescribed for that, went on with my life riding my horses, line-dancing, never skipped a beat (so to speak) in my life-enjoyments. Then in 2018 I was pre-diabetic but didn't know as I wasn't seeing my own records like I always look up online now.  So nothing changed nutrition-wise so I was diagnosed full-blown T2 Diabetic.

I had more than one reason to start taking better care of myself, and luckily, I began.  I still fall short of my nutrition because I can only buy meats I can afford which luckily, are yes, packaged beef, organic if I can afford it, and grass fed as well.  I'm big on reading labels, and I am glad I remain teachable, depending on the "teacher" as well.  I do learn something new every day.  I believe so much in that old line "A Mind is a Terrible thing to Waste". 

[[bw...]]

6 hours ago, [[M...] said:

I attended a BBQ several years ago on a military base in Louisiana. Three young men were taken to the medical unit after eating hickory smoked meats and complaining of a variety of symptoms. All three were from northern states and lived intercity,  possibly unaccustomed to such heavily smoked products. All three recovered from high levels of histamine. Being from Alabama , I have felt strange after consuming smoked sausage or bacon which is everywhere. Are smoked meats high in histamine?

Music60 

Wow interesting. Yes they absolutley full of histamine. I did the same thing on christmas day eating some smoked christmas ham. Had to control Myself from calling the ambulance...

Histamine, once again.

[[bw...]]

Theres is just way too much evidence of people having severe reactions to histamine type foods to go un-noticed.

Its foolish to think its actually not part of a BIGGER picture due to benzo withdrawal.

[[Kr...]]

11 hours ago, [[W...] said:

Yeah, I don’t even take tylenol.
Just try to go slow with supplements too. I had reactions to the most innocuous things.
 

I do hope I will heal too but it’s been so bad lately, why getting worse after so much time. I feel like the electricity in my body has gone haywire. Yuck! I think the neuroplasticity theory is at play here when symptoms get worse with time. But very hard to work with that. I am trying, though. 

May I ask what happens when you take Tylenol?

I’ve been thinking about this and every time I’ve taken Tylenol, I feel like crap and anxiety and heart/pulse pounding and some burning ears and a huge spike in tinnitus.

What the hell!!??!

[[Wi...]]

33 minutes ago, [[K...] said:

May I ask what happens when you take Tylenol?

I’ve been thinking about this and every time I’ve taken Tylenol, I feel like crap and anxiety and heart/pulse pounding and some burning ears and a huge spike in tinnitus.

What the hell!!??!

Well, seemingly nothing but I don’t take it to be on the safe side. My CNS is dysregulated and sometimes I will not react to something right after taking it but an after a few days or weeks my CNS starts doing weird things, I get new symptoms and so on. I just avoid all meds and supplements. Some have me immediate reactions, though, plus many months of worsening. 

[[ns...]]

2 hours ago, [[b...] said:

Theres is just way too much evidence of people having severe reactions to histamine type foods to go un-noticed.

Its foolish to think its actually not part of a BIGGER picture due to benzo withdrawal.

bwhittters, hi your post caught my eye. I'm no expert for sure but i think ive found a link. I started eliminating different foods over 3 yrs ago. One by one certain foods I couldn't tolerate and linked it to histamine. A couple weeks ago I started researching the foods I eliminated with high glutamate and or added msg. All, all of those foods are high in glutamate or msg, pretty much the same thing but almost all food is natural in glutamate. 

All canned goods, high in glutamate 

Milk, butter, dairy

Wheat, gluten, glutamate even sugar, fruit.

Soy, garlic 

Olives 

Vinegar 

I could go on and on

If you make a list of the foods you cannot eat, research glutamate content or ask if it's high in glutamate, I'm sure you'll be amazed. 

Then make a list of the foods you can tolerate and ck those.

Most of what I can eat is low glutamate, but some are pretty high. None are high histamine except avocado which I can tolerate a couple times a week, I need the fat.

Benzos lower gaba, glutamate becomes dominate In the brain when gaba is low, from what I understand. I could be wrong, it's from Google!

I did my best to research this.

I feel as though I have been plugged in to an electrical socket and my symptoms are the worst.  But when I eat those foods I eliminated its much worse so, I know it's not an allergy, but something else. 

I.think we are hypersensitive to everything and food is no exception. 

Hopefully you'll find a connection, although idk how to avoid the only foods I can tolerate now.

I hope you feel better soon, I know you've suffered a very long time.

Ns

 

 

 

 

[[no...]]

9 hours ago, [[n...] said:

If you make a list of the foods you cannot eat, research glutamate content or ask if it's high in glutamate, I'm sure you'll be amazed. 

You don't need to eat glutamate to have it as the body needs  it and makes it, and it's the precursor to making Gabba, also glutamate alone   in food isn't the thing you need to look at, there are 2 types and its 'free glutamate' 'bound glutamate' if foods is fine. Glutamate is the metabolic precursor of GABA

A pathway map of glutamate metabolism 

Glutamate is not only beneficial, but essential for life. It is the most abundant neurotransmitter in the brain.


There are too many unproven or downright seriously  wrong 'blanket statements' and parroted myths that have been wrongly constantly parotted for many years on the forum regarding not just diet but many, many other thing  things, and it causes unneeded stress and worry on top of already being in hell  

 

Nova

[[no...]]

OK here's another subject ( Oxalates ) I posted about that also gets constantly wrongly parroted and freaks people out unneeded, so instead of going over the whole same thing regarding histamines too  I've copied and pasted it here .

PS I meant to say, just swap the word oxalates in that quote for histamine instead, so it will make sense to you 

 

Nova 

Quote

 

As we ALL know something and nothing gets blamed when we have hell withdrawal symptoms, when it's just that withdrawal symptoms playing out and nothing to do with anything else, and one I see a LOT on here, (and yes I fell for it for a bit a while back due to hell symptoms and looking for a why? ...)  is that high oxalates or any level of oxalates in foods do big harm to you and are responsible for a plethora of health problems.
 

NOT TRUE... It's actually the one's our bodies make naturally regardless of what we do or don't eat and people are stopping eating the foods they actually need to recover out of needles fear, I have days when even simple spring water going down feels like it's causing problems, but it's nothing at all to do with the water but due to our scrambled brain signals while our central nervous system is in disarray so eat the food you enjoy.

I do it all the time now not nothing junk food as I've eaten good wholesome foods for year's now, but I  eat and take the kicking which feels like its due to the food I'm eating when it's not just crap coincidence as I need that nutrition to recover. Common sense tells you to avoid stuff that stimulating, too many artificial additives,  Alcohol etc

And  yes I know some of you can/or believe you can,  drink without it effecting your healing, but personally I'd rather put my energy into healing food and drinks rather than risking indulging in what may become problematic, I loved beer, a cig and a joint but haven't had either for some few year's now, for 2 reasons one' smoking made me LOT worse, my anxiety was going through the roof along with worsening problems.

The when I got educated about tolerance withdrawal, which I was in for year's but had no idea at all or even about withdrawal on the Benzos , and hell symptoms that was a big revelation, once aware I could see that certain symptoms got worse or arose due to alcohol intake and/or smoking, cigs, Ganga, so I stopped it all CT. Wish I could do that with the "£%!@ Benzos     
 

I've stopped certain foods before as I was convinced that was the reason for my certain hell symptoms but ate them again after a while with no problems, so if it was the food no way could I eat it after abstaining for a while then eating it again. Also, on giving it up whatever it is month later I STILL have the same hell symptoms that I blamed certain foods' intake for, so what does that tell you? 
 

It's got zilch to do with the foods, and just butt sucking withdrawal symptoms that have hung around for ages but will eventually get better, which is hard to believe when you feel that death is imminent, or you're effed up for life, all of which is not true.  If I were to die the number of times I really felt like I was going too , then I'd be the most reincarnated person in the Cosmos or perpetually cloned, none of which I am, although I may have been here before a few times or more . 

 Hopefully it will this will help dispel needless fear in some or a lot of you about foods that you should be eating, not avoiding ...       

 

 

Nova

Edited February 25 by [no...]

[[no...]]

10 hours ago, [[n...] said:

Benzos lower gaba, glutamate becomes dominate In the brain when gaba is low

Glutamate is the precursor metabolite of Gabba 

 

Nova