Zolpiclon/Lunesta

[[...]]

Zolpiclon calms the nerve twinges that keeps me from sleeping. I am able to fall asleep, it is the painful stings that keep me awake. I have taken it for about 3 weeks.

I also have anxiety and depression. Am reinstating Citalopram (1.25 mg to now 7.85 mg).

On Z only ever get 4 hours knocked out, and then a few anxious, hyperaroused hours on/off sleep. 

I asked my doctor if there was something I could get instead, that was not a sleeping pill, and mainly worked to make the nerve pain go away. 

She prescribed quetiaptine/Seroquel. I have been reading about them and am now frankly terrified of making things worse.

1.  Can I switch from one to the other abruptly, or should it be gradual/gradually tapering Zolpiclone? 

2. Have anyone had good experiences using Seroquel as a stepping stone?

Edited March 13 by [...]

[[Ka...]]

Hello @[...] just some thoughts

1. Zopiclone for sleep. I’ve taken this in past & it comes in 2 strengths here in UK. After a time, it didn’t work so well. Maybe that’s what happening for you. A gradual taper is best
2. Citalopram you are reinstating and at 7.85mg 

Your doctor prescribed quetiapine. I took quetiapine at night as an alternative to taking zopiclone 7.5mg for insomnia, & to allieviate anxiety. I’ve looked back at his letter & psychiatrist wrote: this is an antipsychotic medication used in lower doses for anxiety. From memory, neither good nor bad experience. (quetiapine got switched to another med by a different medic after about 6 months).

personally, I would maybe see how you are with reinstating citalopram first. 
I hope others may have ideas & you can make an informed choice that suits you. 

 

 

[[...]]

I have only taken Zolpiclone for 3-4 weeks and except for the first night,  where I slept 8 hours,  I have woken up after 4-5 hours, and been anxious. 

In which way was quetiapine neither a good nor bad experience? Did you sleep? Did you have side effects?

I don't have the luxury of waiting to see as doctors are extremely hesitant to prescribe benzos and z's in my country. I have 5 days left of Zolpiclone, and doctor advised Seroquel instead for me to get better sleep. 

[[Ka...]]

Right ok so short time on zopiclone. 

Quetiapine neither helped me nor made me worse. No side effects. I did sleep since I was already taking a benzo too. 

Quetiapine, whilst being antipsychotic, is being advised I believe by your doctor for sleep purposes - just as my medic did. 
is the citalopram reinstated helping? 
 

@[Pa...]just linking Pamster in as just seen the other thread with meds history in benzo withdrawal, use & recovery 
 

Edited February 21 by [Ka...]

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[...], can we go over a little of your history here?  What is the current status of your stomach issues, did you ever get a diagnosis and are you being treated for it?

[[De...]]

I have been on seroquil for a few years and had largely positive experiences with it at low doses. The major thing is lower dosages will help you sleep, while higher doses like 300mg will largely be used to treat psychosis and schitzofrenia. If your dosages are low I’ve had largely positive experiences and it’s also not habit forming or controlled substance.

I was on ambien (z-drug) for 9 months and am detoxed off it. I have an absolute fear of any kind of the non-benzo z drugs now because they’re essentially a benzo. Switching from a z-drug to to a non-controlled substance is a major positive step forward in my opinion. I am now 5 days detoxed off ambien and will likely never touch it again.

[[...]]

18 hours ago, [[K...] said:

Right ok so short time on zopiclone. 

Quetiapine neither helped me nor made me worse. No side effects. I did sleep since I was already taking a benzo too. 

Quetiapine, whilst being antipsychotic, is being advised I believe by your doctor for sleep purposes - just as my medic did. 
is the citalopram reinstated helping? 
 

@[Pa...]just linking Pamster in as just seen the other thread with meds history in benzo withdrawal, use & recovery 
 

I think Citalopram is doing so I don't wake up panicked. Also light and sound sensitivity is becoming lower. But I feel odd, like disconnected. But difficult to tell what is the daily beginning of the day withdrawal from Z and what is the C.

[[...]]

17 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Hi @[...], can we go over a little of your history here?  What is the current status of your stomach issues, did you ever get a diagnosis and are you being treated for it?

Stomach issues were investigated, nothing came out of it. Every test was normal. I still rarely feel hungry and have to be conscious of eating, my digestion is sensitive, my feces is almost back to normal.

I suspect AD withdrawal symptom.

[[...]]

14 hours ago, [[D...] said:

I have been on seroquil for a few years and had largely positive experiences with it at low doses. The major thing is lower dosages will help you sleep, while higher doses like 300mg will largely be used to treat psychosis and schitzofrenia. If your dosages are low I’ve had largely positive experiences and it’s also not habit forming or controlled substance.

I was on ambien (z-drug) for 9 months and am detoxed off it. I have an absolute fear of any kind of the non-benzo z drugs now because they’re essentially a benzo. Switching from a z-drug to to a non-controlled substance is a major positive step forward in my opinion. I am now 5 days detoxed off ambien and will likely never touch it again.

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

Did you switch apruptly or did you do a gradual taper? My doctor insists that a switch is fine but I am scared. 

[[Pa...]]

[[De...]]

I was on seroquil for a long time and added in ambien (which I think is pretty similar z-drug) later. I was on ambien nightly at 5/10mg for 10 months. I just left detox and now 5 days sober (but still on klonopin). I would recommend a cold turkey off z-drug but perhaps substitute with a higher dose of seroquil (100mg-ish but but more). You’re probably going to have insomnia and a host of issues, but I don’t view an z drug taper as realistic (at least for me). It’s a very hard core tranquilizer/benzo, and if you take say 2.5mg, and you don’t sleep, you’re just going to want to take more. For me it was a major major issue due to my complete and utter reliance on it to sleep, so had to cold turkey. Ambien also stops working fairly quickly for a lot of people and they hit tolerance. So then you’re just taking a benzo with no benefit. That’s just my non-medical opinion but the more I learned about it it’s basically drinking a 6 pack of beer right before you go to sleep and it’s hitting your brain instantaneously. 
 

you don’t want to run into a situation where you haven’t slept for days because then nothing is possible but try a higher dose of the seroquil maybe.

The experiences you’re having of getting 4 hours of sleep then being shot awake were the same as mine and caused breakthrough anxiety symptoms.

[[Ka...]]

[[...]]

On 22/02/2024 at 18:40, [[D...] said:

I was on seroquil for a long time and added in ambien (which I think is pretty similar z-drug) later. I was on ambien nightly at 5/10mg for 10 months. I just left detox and now 5 days sober (but still on klonopin). I would recommend a cold turkey off z-drug but perhaps substitute with a higher dose of seroquil (100mg-ish but but more). You’re probably going to have insomnia and a host of issues, but I don’t view an z drug taper as realistic (at least for me). It’s a very hard core tranquilizer/benzo, and if you take say 2.5mg, and you don’t sleep, you’re just going to want to take more. For me it was a major major issue due to my complete and utter reliance on it to sleep, so had to cold turkey. Ambien also stops working fairly quickly for a lot of people and they hit tolerance. So then you’re just taking a benzo with no benefit. That’s just my non-medical opinion but the more I learned about it it’s basically drinking a 6 pack of beer right before you go to sleep and it’s hitting your brain instantaneously. 
 

you don’t want to run into a situation where you haven’t slept for days because then nothing is possible but try a higher dose of the seroquil maybe.

The experiences you’re having of getting 4 hours of sleep then being shot awake were the same as mine and caused breakthrough anxiety symptoms.

I had to stop the Seroquel, I was absurdly tired for most of the day after having taken them. While still not being able to "sleep" any more than the 4-5 hours that Zolpicline gives, because of nerve twinges.

I have been tapering the Zolpiclone, testing how low I can go and still sleep. So far down to 5/8 pill, so 4,7 mg-ish (and just got a scale so I can measure more precisely).

I still sleep, and I think it is because I don't actually need the sedating effect, but rather the anti-cramping effect, which keeps the nerve twinges at bay. That also fits with how people say that they would work less efficient by now, I have taken them for 2 months, but I still get full effect, on a lower dose.

I just wish my doctor would - could - prescribe something for the nerve twinges instead of Z. But she seems to think that there is no such med/ want to consult a psyciatrist, so we are waiting for that. I am guessing because the other options are...benzos. Or generally stuff with a lot of side effects. Pregabalin, Parkinson meds, ect.

[[Pa...]]

I'm glad to see you've been able to reduce your dose, and what you're observing is interesting.  I too wish there were a medication that helped, instead of having to take one off label with so many scary downsides. 

[[...]]

Thank your for your understanding.

It is like the doctor - and the other doctors in my clinic, as well as the evening clinic I also visisted - all only hear "can't sleep" and not "because of nerve twinges".

It is really a situation where it becomes apparant how much doctors treat symptoms rather than seek to cure. 

I know that the meds that treat nerve pain are pretty heavy ones. And that they might not work for my twinges, since their cause is unknown

But so is the Z, heavy! But they treat it like it is just a calming tea. It is benzoes(-like) and it can't be right that it is the best option.

And it bothers me so much that because the nerve twinges mystify them, they just act like it is not the main issue, but rather the sleep is. And that if I just get some rest and learn to relax or whatever, they will go away. 

UGH!!!!

[[Pa...]]

Nerve pain can be tricky, I don't think the medical community knows how to treat it effectively and it doesn't appear there are any sure-fire pharmaceutical solutions either.  I guess the doctors are reacting like they are because they probably know they have nothing to offer for your actual issue.  I was dealing with horrible sciatica pain and nothing helped, not pain pills, not anti-inflammatories and not muscle relaxers because its the nerve.  A friend told me about kratom so I tried that and it took my pain away but it comes with its own issues so its not a solution either.

[[...]]

Sciatica is SO painful. I am sorry that you had to deal with it. (I have had it a few times and was lucky that specific exercises worked for me).

2 nights ago I took 1/2 a tablet, 3,75 mg at 23:00. And then 1/8 when I regained consciousness at 2:00 -ish. I didn't mean to take it, but was really distraught.

Last night I also took the 3,75 mg at 23:15 and laid the 1/8 ready if needed. 

I did regain consciousness during the night as I always do on these, but I went back to sleep! So I didn't take the 1/8 tablet!

And I remember to have dreamed in that last sleep, which I haven't done (or only extremely sparsely) since things went sideways. I woke up about 5:00 -ish. 

Then I kind of doozed off/relaxed until 7:00. Which is also an improvement, because other days I have been very restless when having woken up.

I still feel tired today (as I have done since things went sideways), but more of a normal kind of tiredness, not the 'zombie-empty-husk-and my whole body hurts' tiredness or weakness. I am guessing partly because of having gotten some real sleep. And partly because the Z itself seems to induce muscle weakness and muscle pain in me, which lingers.

I am having bad reflux/GERD. Have had it for decades, but it hasn't been as painful as now. I raised head end of bed, do exercises, ect. It goes away over the course of the morning every day (consistent with the 12-ish hours that the Z works). But oooff it hurts.

 

 

Edited March 9 by [...]

[[...]]

Oh, and I have had minimally more appetite. I actually feel like eating at night (the further along the day, the better I am able to eat).

And I finally managed the cognitive power to get ingredients for high calorie smoothies, which helps me get some easy to eat calories.

I really don't want to lose any more weight. The 8-9 kg (20-ish lbs) I already lost was most of my excess, and it wouldn't be healthy for me to be thinner.

 

Edited March 7 by [...]

[[Pa...]]

Its wonderful to hear you've seen some improvement @[...]!  Weight loss is pretty common around here, so its good you're working at getting plenty of calories, your body needs fuel to recover.

Your mornings sound typical, most of our members have it rough in the morning, we've surmised that the cortisol that floods our bodies every morning to wake us up also wakes up our various symptoms so afternoons and evenings are typically better.

Your reflux sounds a bit like benzo belly which is a miserable symptom we assign to pretty much everything that has to do with our gastrointestinal system.  

[[...]]

It is really helpful that you let me know about how the mornings and the benzo belly are common symptoms. Of course it doesn't make them go away, but it makes them give more sense.

(Back in the first week if my symptoms, before I started Zol, I am pretty sure that it was due to meds too. Either the lack of Citalopram, or the addition of Vyvanse/Elvanse).

3,75 mg last night too! (Edited in my earlier posts, I had written it wrong). And I was able to sleep on after the initital wakeup. Broken, as always, but I did sleep. And I remember dreaming. Yay, REM sleep, which Zs suppresses.

Oh, and I managed to drink more water/fluids yesterday. I have been trying so, but even that sometimes feel nauseating. I have peed twice now, at 13:00 and I am as pleased with it as a parent of a small child. 😆

Edited March 9 by [...]

[[...]]

I have begun to take Omega-3 fish oil and then D-vitamin again (used to before things went sideways). 

And also lactobacteria.

I did not reintroduce multivitamin, because of concern that it might be too much. And I also want to be able to notice any reactions from any one supplement.

I found that the Omega-3 did make be feel a little agitated, while also making me feel better. So I now take them as early in the morning/before noon, that I can bear downing them. 

[[...]]

Had a lot of stomach pain in the morning, worse than some other days.  Am going to keep a bottle of Gaciscon by the bed to possibly take and test if it makes a difference. (It is pain in the actual stomach, not stomach as in the digestive system broadly).

It is quite peculiar how the pain is every day almost on the clock 7-11 AM.

Since I take the Zol at 11 PM, it would make sense that it is that one that does something since its... I don't remember the name, not halflife (5-7 hours), but the point at which it has any felt effect?... is about 12 hours.

I am not as to-the-bones cold anymore. My feet have been disturbingly cold, not responding to any heating attempts, as well as my whole legs and arms. I couldn't quite tell if the weather had gotten warmer or my home warmer, but I think that by now I am certain that my temperature regulation has improved to normal level (which is being slightly cold most of the time, but in an ok way).

Oh, and my kid gave me their cold. Yay..... But it feels ok. My system seems so ramped up that it offs the cold very effectively. So at least there's that.  

 

Edited March 9 by [...]

[[Pa...]]

[[Pa...]]

[[...]]

Thank you, I will check out the group.

So it is a Z-thing, the coldness? That's kind of comforting to know. 

Yes, I have had digestive issues for decades, balancing on the edge of an IBS diagnose, as well as generally being sensitive to high blood sugar, hard to digest food, ect. 

It does make sense that the process hits the weakest points. My back/trapezoid/neck pain has also been a lot worse through this. 

I retract, by the way, the part of not being severely affected by the cold. Full on cold with stuffed nose, snotty, voice affected. But it seems to sit in the upper respiratory system with me, where my son had it in his bronchia. 

I wake up at night because my mouth is dry as a desert. As if I needed any more wakenings *smiling ironically*.

But seeing the silver lining, then having this cold makes the body quite focused on the physical symptoms of cold. Less anxiety and somehow less stomach pain.

Thank you! for commenting on what I write. It really helps me a lot to get feedback from someone who knows what it is like. And to simply know that someone is reading it. Once I feel better (once and when, not if) and have the energy, I will do this for others too.