Covid Setback

[[Ma...]]

Hi buddies. I haven’t been here in a long time…. I’m 3 years off and was living life almost symptom free before I tested positive for COVID two weeks ago. It’s hard to decipher between what’s covid and what is my benzo withdrawal syndrome kicking back in. I’m paralyzingly fatigued, crazy air hunger (pulse ox is reading normal) and severe anxiety that has me vibrating from within. I’m devastated… and scared. This is my first time having COVID. I’m fully vaxxed and had not yet received a booster.

I’m hoping to hear from those of you who experienced this and hopefully had a positive outcome, eventually. It’s debilitating to feel so well and then go back to what feels like acute. Any encouragement appreciated.

Edited December 6, 2023 by [Ma...]

[[or...]]

@[Ma...] in my opinion, your s/x are from COVID, not from a re-emergence of your benzo s/x. I got COVID in '21 and the s/x you describe are just about what I experienced. Especially the fatigue. I was 5 years  away from tapering at that point and absolutely benzo s/x free. I know it feels like acute, but COVID  hell is its own hell. Close, but no cigar. I eventually had to use an inhaler for my air hunger. Hopefully you will feel better in a couple of weeks . . . and I believe your suffering is indeed due to COVID. It's not reasonable that benzo s/x would just flare up. Especially when you had been feeling so well. So . . . maybe you just have to bite the bullet and ride this out. What about Paxlovid? Is that a possibility? Best to you. 

[[Ma...]]

@[or...]Thank you so much for responding. Perhaps you are right, it’s very hard to tell. It feels just like acute, maybe worse because I’m full of cold/phlegm too. I believe I am past the window for Paxlovid. I’m on day 14. It feels impossible to feel better, each day I feel more debilitated. I pray you are right and that this passes soon.

[[Ma...]]

Any other accounts of recovering from COVID are so appreciated… anyone?

[[Br...]]

@[Ma...] I have not experienced Covid but we often see reports that members have an uptick in symptoms following a bad cold or other medical issue.  I certainly experienced this myself.  Similarly, stress of all kinds, including physical and psychological, seems to be associated with upticks.  So, while not specifically Covid related, this may be a piece of what's going on with you too.

[[Ma...]]

@[Br...] thank you… I think covid is so inflammatory so I’m not surprised that it might trigger a nervous system response like this. It’s so unbearable in moments, I don’t know how I tapered for so long… it’s torture 

[[...]]

The overlap between benzo withdrawal and particularly long covid (the symptoms that linger after the infection has cleared) is nearly 100%.

There is a bunch of research showing that covid really disrupts our GABA synthesis pathways. And GABA depletion results in benzo withdrawal-like symptoms. 

The good news is that taking GABA (the amino acid supplement version ) can help! Here's a news summary of one of the many journal publications:  

"An amino acid called GABA, which is available over-the-counter in many countries, reduced disease severity, viral load in the lungs, and death rates in SARS-CoV-2-infected mice." 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2022-10-inexpensive-readily-chemical-limit-impact.html

I personally believe that GABA can really help to protect people from getting long covid, which is pretty much the exact same hell as benzo withdrawal. Not knowing which is which is very frustrating. I'm going through the same thing. I've had long covid for almost 4 years now. It's what ended up getting me on benzos to manage it, and now I'm trying to get off (I so wish I had known about simply taking the amino acid, back in 2020!) 

Edited December 7, 2023 by [...]

[[Ka...]]

[[...]]

@[Ka...] - I had a prescription prior to the pandemic. I got infected during lockdown. I started experiencing that crazy multi-organ system inflammation that was killing people. My kidneys felt like they were on fire, they were bleeding and I was coughing up blood. I started panicking (rightly so). I took more Xanax at once than I ever had in my life.

All of a sudden the fire in my lungs and kidneys stopped. My kidneys stopped bleeding. The inflammation calmed down. My kidneys and lungs survived. My GI-tract, less so. I spent the next year on a fairly high dose of Xanax. At the point it seemed like the crazy chronic inflammation was subsiding, I started to taper. I've been tapering ever since. 

With each dose reduction, I get a rebound of symptoms. I don't know what is long covid rebounding and what is benzo withdrawal rebounding. I'm not sure they are actually clinically different. All of the data seems to point to some of the same underlying mechanisms. And if true, it just emphasizes why we need to taper slowly - so we don't hurt our bodies that have become dependent on these medicines for managing different immune system responses. 

Aside: every major and many minor pharma companies are looking at GABA drugs as alternatives to steroid immunomodulators. I think that speaks to many mechanisms that regular docs don't understand, and it's why all of us who are here ended up here. Our immune systems get injured. It takes time to heal. 

[[Li...]]

Interesting article, @[...].  I’ve included a link to the full paper below.

Do you know if this research has been replicated?  Also please be mindful of the study limitations identified by the researchers/authors:

Quote

Limitations of this study

There are a number of major limitations of this study. First, the K18-hACE2 mouse model imperfectly models SARS-CoV-2 infection and immune responses in humans. Second, GABA’s impact on immune cells and lung cells may differ in important ways between mice and humans. Third, GABA treatment may only be beneficial during a specific time window of the disease process and at other times may be deleterious. Accordingly, careful clinical trials are needed to determine the time window and dosage, if any, that GABA-R agonist treatment has a beneficial effect in COVID-19 patients.

 

 

Reference:

A GABA-receptor agonist reduces pneumonitis severity, viral load, and death rate in SARS-CoV-2-infected mice. Front Immunol. 2022 Oct 25;13:1007955. doi: 10.3389/fimmu.2022.1007955. PMID: 36389819; PMCID: PMC9640739.  Accessed online at: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9640739/

 

 

[[...]]

@[Li...] - If you can find that it has been replicated, that would be helpful. I'll look forward to what you can find. 

In the meantime, since you're interested in the topic, here are some more to check out:
 

Quote

Disturbed lipid and amino acid metabolisms in COVID-19 patients

Notably, gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) was significantly reduced in COVID-19 patients and GABA plasma levels allowed for stratification of COVID-19 patients with high sensitivity and specificity. The data reveal large metabolic disturbances in COVID-19 patients and suggest use of GABA as potential biomarker and therapeutic target for the infection.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35064792/

 

Quote

 

GABA Regulates Release of Inflammatory Cytokines From Peripheral Blood Mononuclear Cells and CD4+ T Cells and Is Immunosuppressive in Type 1 Diabetes

Here, we demonstrate that GABA regulates cytokine secretion from human peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) and CD4+ T cells. In anti-CD3 stimulated PBMCs, GABA (100 nM) inhibited release of 47 cytokines in cells from patients with type 1 diabetes (T1D), but only 16 cytokines in cells from nondiabetic (ND) individuals. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5952354/

 

Quote

 

Intracortical GABAergic dysfunction in patients with fatigue and dysexecutive syndrome after COVID-19

The present study documents for the first time reduced GABAergic inhibition in the M1 in patients who recovered from COVID-19 with neurological complications and manifested fatigue and dysexecutive syndrome.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7954785/

 

Quote

 

GABA-receptors are a new druggable target for limiting disease severity, lung viral load, and death in SARS-CoV-2 infected mice

GABA-receptors (GABA-Rs) are well-known neurotransmitter receptors in the central nervous system. GABA-Rs are also expressed by immune cells and lung epithelial cells and GABA-R agonists/potentiators reduce inflammatory immune cell activities and limit acute lung injuries. Notably, plasma GABA levels are reduced in hospitalized COVID-19 patients. Hence, GABA-R agonists may have therapeutic potential for treating COVID-19. Here, we show that oral GABA treatment initiated just after SARS-CoV-2 infection, or 2 days later near the peak of lung viral load, reduced disease severity, lung coefficient index, and death rates in K18-hACE2 mice. GABA-treated mice had a reduced viral load in their lungs and displayed shifts in their serum cytokine and chemokine levels that are associated with better outcomes in COVID-19 patients. Thus, GABA-R activation had multiple beneficial effects in this mouse model which are also desirable for the treatment of COVID-19. A number of GABA-R agonists are safe for human use and can be readily tested in clinical trials with COVID-19 patients. We also discuss their potential for limiting COVID-19-associated neuroinflammation.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.06.07.494579v1.full

 

Quote

 

Inhibitory role for GABA in autoimmune inflammation

GABA, the principal inhibitory neurotransmitter in the adult brain, has a parallel inhibitory role in the immune system. We demonstrate that immune cells synthesize GABA and have the machinery for GABA catabolism. Antigen-presenting cells (APCs) express functional GABA receptors and respond electrophysiologically to GABA. Thus, the immune system harbors all of the necessary constituents for GABA signaling, and GABA itself may function as a paracrine or autocrine factor. These observations led us to ask further whether manipulation of the GABA pathway influences an animal model of multiple sclerosis, experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE). Increasing GABAergic activity ameliorates ongoing paralysis in EAE via inhibition of inflammation. GABAergic agents act directly on APCs, decreasing MAPK signals and diminishing subsequent adaptive inflammatory responses to myelin proteins.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0915139107

 

 

 

[[Ka...]]

[[Bu...]]

18 hours ago, [[M...] said:

Any other accounts of recovering from COVID are so appreciated… anyone?

Hey Marwegs,

I have recovered from Covid twice.  I had it the first time in Aug. 2020 and again Sept. 2022.  The first time I developed long Covid, the second time I didn't.  Both times are tied for the sickest I've ever been.  It was miserable and what you described is exactly how it felt.  The fatigue was so horrible.  So were the myriad of other symptoms.  Both times it took a full month to start feeling normal.  I know it sucks, but hopefully you'll start feeling better soon.

Blessings

[[An...]]

23 hours ago, [[M...] said:

Hi buddies. I haven’t been here in a long time…. I’m 3 years off and was living life almost symptom free before I tested positive for COVID two weeks ago. It’s hard to decipher between what’s covid and what is my benzo withdrawal syndrome kicking back in. I’m paralyzingly fatigued, crazy air hunger (pulse ox is reading normal) and severe anxiety that has me vibrating from within. I’m devastated… and scared. This is my first time having COVID. I’m fully vaxxed and had not yet received a booster.

I’m hoping to hear from those of you who experienced this and hopefully had a positive outcome, eventually. It’s debilitating to feel so well and then go back to what feels like acute. Any encouragement appreciated.

After reading what you wrote, I would not call this true benzo w/d. Perhaps benzos do leave our CNS's overly sensitized even after we recover and have a long period of being SX free. IOW, you are in remission but the slightest stressors can trigger a reemergence of SXs, IDK. The same however can be said of ppl with anxiety disorders who manage to recover without ever using benzos and then they suffer some stress and SXs manifest again.

[[Ka...]]

2 hours ago, [[K...] said:

So sorry to hear of the kidneys. @[...] and overall inflammation you had during that time. That would make anyone panic. Glad you made it thru that <3  <<immunomodulators>> never heard of these. We are living in interesting times! Oh if I had a block of gold for every time a Dr did not 'understand' I hope your GI tract will heal as well.

Also great articles, folks  thx for posting

 

[[Ka...]]

23 hours ago, [[M...] said:

Hi buddies. I haven’t been here in a long time…. I’m 3 years off and was living life almost symptom free before I tested positive for COVID two weeks ago. It’s hard to decipher between what’s covid and what is my benzo withdrawal syndrome kicking back in. I’m paralyzingly fatigued, crazy air hunger (pulse ox is reading normal) and severe anxiety that has me vibrating from within. I’m devastated… and scared. This is my first time having COVID. I’m fully vaxxed and had not yet received a booster.

I’m hoping to hear from those of you who experienced this and hopefully had a positive outcome, eventually. It’s debilitating to feel so well and then go back to what feels like acute. Any encouragement appreciated.

@[Ma...] be sure to post how your doing getting thru covid. sorry you tested for it.. Still:

buddies can get through this!

many already have 🙌

[[An...]]

22 hours ago, [[o...] said:

@[Ma...] in my opinion, your s/x are from COVID, not from a re-emergence of your benzo s/x. I got COVID in '21 and the s/x you describe are just about what I experienced. Especially the fatigue. I was 5 years  away from tapering at that point and absolutely benzo s/x free. I know it feels like acute, but COVID  hell is its own hell. Close, but no cigar. I eventually had to use an inhaler for my air hunger. Hopefully you will feel better in a couple of weeks . . . and I believe your suffering is indeed due to COVID. It's not reasonable that benzo s/x would just flare up. Especially when you had been feeling so well. So . . . maybe you just have to bite the bullet and ride this out. What about Paxlovid? Is that a possibility? Best to you. 

Ditto! I am in agreement with what Oregon said.

[[Ka...]]

1 hour ago, [[B...] said:

Hey Marwegs,

I have recovered from Covid twice.  I had it the first time in Aug. 2020 and again Sept. 2022.  The first time I developed long Covid, the second time I didn't.  Both times are tied for the sickest I've ever been.  It was miserable and what you described is exactly how it felt.  The fatigue was so horrible.  So were the myriad of other symptoms.  Both times it took a full month to start feeling normal.  I know it sucks, but hopefully you'll start feeling better soon.

Blessings

thanks for chiming in, pretty much how a dear friend described this too. @[Bu...]

[[Ka...]]

8 minutes ago, [[A...] said:

After reading what you wrote, I would not call this true benzo w/d. Perhaps benzos do leave our CNS's overly sensitized even after we recover and have a long period of being SX free. IOW, you are in remission but the slightest stressors can trigger a reemergence of SXs, IDK. The same however can be said of ppl with anxiety disorders who manage to recover without ever using benzos and then they suffer some stress and SXs manifest again.

Im the kind that had bad anxiety before benzos, that sounds about right @[An...]

[[Ka...]]

[[Ka...]]

Just now, [[K...] said:

wow can one get long covid for more than a year, you account is first I read about that! and I had wondered why some ppl's covid seemed to last over a year.  amazing what we know about GABA amino acid supplement. . your post is most appreciated. would never have read/known about this w/o your posting it! has anyone tried to use a GABA supplement? @[...] 😊

 

[[Ka...]]

2 hours ago, [[K...] said:

So sorry to hear of the kidneys. and overall inflammation you had during that time. That would make anyone panic. Glad you made it thru that <3  <<immunomodulators>> never heard of these. We are living in interesting times! Oh if I had a block of gold for every time a Dr did not 'understand' I hope your GI tract will heal as well.

Also great articles, folks  thx for posting @[...]

 

[[Ka...]]

Just now, [[K...] said:

2 hours ago, [[K...] said:

So sorry to hear of the kidneys. and overall inflammation you had during that time. That would make anyone panic. Glad you made it thru that <3  <<immunomodulators>> never heard of these. We are living in interesting times! Oh if I had a block of gold for every time a Dr did not 'understand' I hope your GI tract will heal as well.

Also great articles, folks  thx for posting @[Li...]@[...] and anyone else I missed

 

[[...]]

@[Ka...] - Yes, long covid (LC) can be be permanent and permanently disabling.

The more times you get covid, the more likely you are to get LC, if you haven't already had it and somehow cleared it.

The vaccines offer no protection against long covid (despite what early studies seemed to indicate). The initial wave in early 2020 was the most likely to cause severe and permanent disabling LC. Millions of people globally appear to now be permanently disabled from it. It's not quite as bad as post-polio syndrome, but for some, it's pretty close (although if feels more like permanent benzo withdrawal hell, and many people who had it in 2020 were accused by ER docs of going through benzo withdrawal, even if they never touched a benzo!) 

Government media has done a really bad job of informing people of the risks. I could not walk or stand for almost 2 years of the 4 I have now been sick. I also got whacked with an early strain in March of 2020. 

We think it's causing a type of injury to the metabolic system, including GABA, as the research papers posted above indicate So getting stable sooner than later is important. Besides GABA as a supplement, the other thing that is really important is to rest like it's your job. Trying to push through it results in a more likely chance of developing incurable LC. 

 

[[Ed...]]

Thanks for this info, Kats. I had two moderate bouts of COVID (in spite of vaccinations). This explains a lot about the paralyzing avolition and marathon sleeps of exhaustion I've been suffering for months. Plus a recent series of tragedies in my life. It's not just benzo tapering. It's got to be long COVID and grieving as well. Not a good epoch in my life.