2400+ Days Off. My Insomnia/Benzo Advice

[[Th...]]

@ Oboe1974 and Mermaid

Thanks for your kind words and support.  I wrote this because I wished something like what I put together in this post was available when I was going through WD.  I needed constant reassurance that I would heal and I believe this post provides that hope and reassurance!

[[me...]]

2 hours ago, [[T...] said:

@ Oboe1974 and Mermaid

Thanks for your kind words and support.  I wrote this because I wished something like what I put together in this post was available when I was going through WD.  I needed constant reassurance that I would heal and I believe this post provides that hope and reassurance!

Hi yes it does it has given me hope for a healthier me.  And to walk away from GPS who throw tablets at you.... I'm so grateful to you it came from the heart inspiring thankyou 

And I hope you carry on healing namaste 🙏

[[ma...]]

On 6/8/2023 at 22:56, [[T...] said:

Actualización: 8-6-2023

Fue hace 7 años en este día que experimenté mi primer día en el que me arrojaron a un mundo oscuro de abstinencia después de hacerme una tomografía computarizada el 5 de agosto de 2016 por indicación de mi médico. No tenía idea por lo que estaba pasando hasta que encontré Benzobuddies.org. Saber que otros pasaron por los mismos síntomas horribles e insomnio me ayudó a superar mi curación y recuperación y cruzar la línea de meta. Hubo muchos días y meses en los que pensé que curarme y dormir era imposible. Todas esas fueron mentiras que Benzo WD nos cuenta a diario. Desafortunadamente, es muy fácil creer las mentiras y dejarse atrapar y volverse extremadamente negativo. Haz tu mejor esfuerzo para ser positivo. Muestre gratitud, no actitud. ACEPTE su WD, la falta de sueño y los síntomas como algo que no puede cambiar y DEBE experimentar para sanar y recuperarse. No mentiré, no es fácil. De hecho, era mucho, mucho más difícil que el entrenamiento básico del ejército. Sin embargo, todos aprendemos habilidades de afrontamiento y cómo volvernos más fuertes mentalmente. Esta fue, con diferencia, la peor experiencia de mi vida, pero 7 años después me ha hecho estar mucho más agradecida y valorada por las pequeñas cosas que solía dar por sentado. Si todavía estás luchando, haz lo mejor que puedas para superar cada minuto, cada hora y cada día. ¡En algún momento cruzarás la línea de meta y recuperarás también tu vida anterior a Benzo!

Thank you very much, I loved reading you.

[[or...]]

This was so helpful this a.m. as I am having on and off insomnia.  Thank you much @[Th...] really a wonderful read and as I got into it, I realized I read it earlier in my taper but had forgotten so much oregonlady

[[Th...]]

Glad this post could  help you and others.  That's why I wrote it!  

[[or...]]

My insomnia is so much better, and I didn't use anything for it, it just got better when I accepted it and that was my biggest problem, not accepting things I cannot change. Well, I can change them alright but not for the better, ty again @[Th...] Your post made a lot of difference for me, oregonlady

[[In...]]

I quit K for 11 months 

i got brutal insomnia for 7 months and i can't stand for coz my symptoms is very worse i cant walk and sleep , my gerd is very poor i got ton of symptoms include hashimoto thyroid and this make me get brutal insomnia so i decided to met doctor on Jan 2023 he said i got severe adrenal fatigue so gave me ton of vitamin after i take it for 2 months my symptoms is better so much i can sleep my symptoms disappeared after its better for 3 months now my symptoms set back as first time i cant sleep all night for 6 days and got heart palpitations so i feel very upset Am crying every day 

i am so scare what should i do 

[[Th...]]

Sorry you are back in an insomnia wave.  That seems to happen more often than we would like it to.  I slept well for about 6 months only to get hit by almost 2 months of poor sleep with lots of zero nights and 1-3 hour nights and that was at 18 months off.  These insomnia waves reappeared at least 4 or 5 more times over the next 6 years and lasted anywhere from 1 to 6 weeks.  They always evened out.  Please do NOT take any Benzos for sleep.  If you absolutely need to take something, try Seroquel, Mirtazepine, Trazodone, etc.  Hang in there, it should even out given enough time.

[[ma...]]

On 11/1/2024 at 15:01, [[T...] said:

Lamento que hayas vuelto a sufrir una ola de insomnio. Esto parece suceder más a menudo de lo que nos gustaría. Dormí bien durante aproximadamente 6 meses solo para sufrir casi 2 meses de mal sueño con muchas noches cero y noches de 1 a 3 horas, y eso fue a los 18 meses de descanso. Estas oleadas de insomnio reaparecieron al menos 4 o 5 veces más durante los siguientes 6 años y duraron entre 1 y 6 semanas. Siempre se igualaban. Por favor NO tome ningún Benzo para dormir. Si es absolutamente necesario tomar algo, pruebe con Seroquel, Mirtazepina, Trazodona, etc. Aguante, debería nivelarse con el tiempo suficiente.

 

[[ma...]]

Hello, I have been abstinent for 22 months and I still have a lot of insomnia, it is exasperating and I am afraid of getting sick.I usually sleep 2 hours, I wake up and sometimes I go back to sleep for 2 hours, but other times I don't, although it is true that before I had many nights of 0 hours and now the worst nights are 2 hours. Will this really ever have a happy ending?Right now I can't fall asleep, I think tonight will be night 0. Much encouragement to all of us who are on this dark side, and let's hope that one day we will publish a success story. 

[[Ze...]]

Hello ThEwAy2 & all of you Insomnia sufferers,

I tapered off klonopin, 1mg nightly for 30 years(took me almost 10 months reducing by 5% every two weeks), and have been benzo free for about 4 months.  I will be 80 in 3 months.  Insomnia is terrible.  I am now in 5th week of doing CBTi on an app called Sleepresert, and insomnia seems to be worse.  I read your long post,ThEwAy2, and really appreciate everything you wrote, and others here.  I didn’t realize insomnia may be with me for a very long time, perhaps till the end of my life.  I quit klonopin because it was no longer working & knew I would have to increase dose, plus I was afraid of possible long term effects.  Now, I wonder-with hardly no sleep-if because of my age-it would be better to just continue with a larger dose, and no insomnia.  I do not really want/plan to do that, but would really like to hear what anyone might want to say.

[[Th...]]

Hello Zebraecho,

4 months is a good start, but as I said in my previous posts, my insomnia was the worst between month 3 and 10 after I jumped CT (not recommended).  Not much helped me during the thick of my withdrawal.  Unfortunately CBTi most likely will not help with the amount of sleep you are getting, but it could help you be more relaxed?  It can't help because your lack of sleep is caused from damaged or destroyed GABA receptors.  That's what Benzos do, damage or destroy GABA receptors.  As you know, GABA receptors work like your body's brake pedal...making you calm and even relaxed so you can sleep.  Glutamate is your body's gas pedal or what makes you active and alert or even fight or flight.  Normally, Glutamate is in balance with GABA so one does not overpower the other.  However, the Benzos have taken your GABA receptors offline.  They need time to heal and/or regrow.  Your sleep switch is temporarily broken.   

This is not medical advice, just my opinion. If you absolutely need to take an Rx drug for sleep, I would try something such as Seroquel, Mirtazepine or Trazodone.  Completely avoid Benzos and Z-drugs, such as Ambien,  at all costs.  If you reached tolerance to 1mg, going higher might help briefly, but you will most likely find that you will quickly reach tolerance to the increased dose and then you'll need to constantly go higher and higher with your dose.  That's why Benzos are a dead end road as they eventually stop working for almost everyone.  Hydroxyzine might give you some sleep too?  Again, I'd look into anything that isn't a Benzo or Z-drug (Benzo in disguise) to help get you some sleep.

I had success with Seroquel, but it left me feeling hung over and I had a lot of brain fog so I stopped taking it.  

Since you are already 4 months off, you have been healing for the past 4 months even though you probably don't feel or see much, if any, improvement?  Don't reset your healing clock by going back on Klonopin or any other Benzo.  If you made it this far, you can keep going.  Peace!

Edited January 20 by [Th...]

[[Sh...]]

I'm sorry @[Th...], but I only registered here to warn you you are giving bad advice by telling people to take Trazodone or Mirtazapine.

Let me tell you they are WORSE THAN ANY BENZO OUT THERE.

The source is me.

The difference between SSRIs and Benzos are that healing is very much possible from benzos.

SSRIs hit harder since they are excitatory, you don't know how your healing will progress.

I got hit by mirtazapine. Mirtazapine is the worst pill you can take, it could give you permanent tinnitus and Visual Snow syndrome like it gave me. It also took away my sleep, the first days I got 6 hours and later on it gave me 5, 3 and 30 mins before it stopped working, not to mention it gave me other  additional SSRI withdrawal symtoms like tremors nausea etc. I found others who got hit by it on Tinnitustalk, Reddit and most notably, survivingantidepressants.org.

Many have taken their lives, and I'm really close to that point as well so I understand.

I was given Mirt. to combat fluoroquinolone toxicity, which caused my insomnia, which is akin benzo withdrawal, since it destroys/downregulates all gaba receptors.

Do not take mirtazapine or trazodone, if you don't believe me just do a search on google with these terms: palinopsia mirtazapine (or trazodone)

 

[[Co...]]

3 hours ago, [[S...] said:

I'm sorry @[Th...], but I only registered here to warn you you are giving bad advice by telling people to take Trazodone or Mirtazapine.

Let me tell you they are WORSE THAN ANY BENZO OUT THERE.

The source is me.

The difference between SSRIs and Benzos are that healing is very much possible from benzos.

SSRIs hit harder since they are excitatory, you don't know how your healing will progress.

I got hit by mirtazapine. Mirtazapine is the worst pill you can take, it could give you permanent tinnitus and Visual Snow syndrome like it gave me. It also took away my sleep, the first days I got 6 hours and later on it gave me 5, 3 and 30 mins before it stopped working, not to mention it gave me other  additional SSRI withdrawal symtoms like tremors nausea etc. I found others who got hit by it on Tinnitustalk, Reddit and most notably, survivingantidepressants.org.

Many have taken their lives, and I'm really close to that point as well so I understand.

I was given Mirt. to combat fluoroquinolone toxicity, which caused my insomnia, which is akin benzo withdrawal, since it destroys/downregulates all gaba receptors.

Do not take mirtazapine or trazodone, if you don't believe me just do a search on google with these terms: palinopsia mirtazapine (or trazodone)

Hello @[Sh...]. Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

We do not allow the use of prescriptive language at BenzoBuddies. I've read @[Th...]'s post - he's close to the line, but he does not cross it.

It can be difficult to always stick to phrasing which avoids a suggestive tone or urging of particular actions. I am sure that just about all of our regular posters at BB cross the line from time-to-time - I know I do, but I try my best to avoid this.

Irrespective of nuanced arguments as to whether comments from @[Th...] overstepped our guidelines on the use of prescriptive language (again, I do not believe they did), the core of his message is surely correct: we should not rule out the use of other medications to help resolve/control symptoms which might be otherwise too difficult to bear; and if our goal is to become benzodiazepine-free, where possible, we need to avoid use of medications which act upon GABA receptors.*

I do thank you for taking the trouble of joining up and posting your concerns. I am sure they come from a genuine place of concern. But I think @[Th...] comments were fine and supportive of another member. After all, BB is a discussion-based peer-support community. We should be able - within reasonable limits - to express our opinions and ideas. Similarly - again, within reasonable limits - pushback (such as yours) is fine too. After all, you are correct that the medications that @[Th...] and you mentioned (and all medications for that matter) carry their own sets of side (and withdrawal) effects and potential downsides too. This is the nature of medicine (and surely life too).

* There are surely exceptions to this. For example, emergency use of benzodiazepines is cases of status epilepticus, or as a sedative when is overwhelming pain, or (GABAergic) fluoroquinolones, etc., etc.

[[Sh...]]

@Colin I'm sorry, I'm not here to cause arguments.

I just wanted to warn people about the possible permanent damage these SSRIs or other drugs etc can cause.

I have been lurking here for a LONG time and @[Th...]'s posts about insomnia are REALLY HELPFUL, I read his longest insomnia post every day to get courage for my recovery, don't get me wrong and I appreciate him a lot.

But with this particular post, I just want to point out, even one pill of mirtazapine/trazodone can mess you up beyond belief, so at least a warning is required.

Again, I'm sorry, and I just want people to be aware that SSRIs could be another trap you can't crawl out of, that's it.

Thanks for running this site and helping people how to deal with withdrawals!

[[Co...]]

Your apology is unnecessary, @[Sh...]. I understood your concern, and you did the right thing by joining up to post your contrary view. As I wrote before, BB is a discussion space - pushback with alternative perspectives (and personal experiences) is not only allowed, but encouraged.

Again, welcome aboard. I look forward to reading other posts from you!

[[Ka...]]

Welcome @[Sh...] my own experience of mirtazapine is negative. Plus, I was told that 15mg is formulated differently to 30mg by the prescriber - one of these is more sleep inducing. I am newish here too. Wishing you well 

[[Th...]]

@[Sh...]

Please understand that I am not telling people to take an Rx drug for sleep.  For the longest time I was anti-drug on this forum and that was for any drug that might help with sleep; not just Benzos.  When I made posts pushing that narrative, I got some negative feedback from members that said they would not have made it without Seroquel, Mirtazapine, Trazodone, Hydroxyzine, etc.  I've moved past that position of being completely anti-drug and understand that some members are not strong enough to survive severe insomnia without some sort of help.  I suggest or recommend those Rx drugs as an alternative to Benzos and/or Z-drugs like Ambien based on my experience and opinion.  Although you've had a horrible experience with Mirtazapine (a drug I used too), others have had some success with it.  There isn't a "one size fits all" when it comes to withdrawal and healing/recovery!

If you can "tough it out" and avoid all Rx and OTC drugs and let sleep return on it's own, that is the "best" approach IMO, but if you cannot, then you could explore other Rx and OTC options.  My intent was not to "push" anything.  I am not a doctor and I am not giving medical advice, just my opinion based on my experience and what others have experienced on this forum.

Edited January 20 by [Th...]

[[ka...]]

On 20/01/2024 at 07:53, [[T...] said:

@[Sh...]

Please understand that I am not telling people to take an Rx drug for sleep.  For the longest time I was anti-drug on this forum and that was for any drug that might help with sleep; not just Benzos.  When I made posts pushing that narrative, I got some negative feedback from members that said they would not have made it without Seroquel, Mirtazapine, Trazodone, Hydroxyzine, etc.  I've moved past that position of being completely anti-drug and understand that some members are not strong enough to survive severe insomnia without some sort of help.  I suggest or recommend those Rx drugs as an alternative to Benzos and/or Z-drugs like Ambien based on my experience and opinion.  Although you've had a horrible experience with Mirtazapine (a drug I used too), others have had some success with it.  There isn't a "one size fits all" when it comes to withdrawal and healing/recovery!

If you can "tough it out" and avoid all Rx and OTC drugs and let sleep return on it's own, that is the "best" approach IMO, but if you cannot, then you could explore other Rx and OTC options.  My intent was not to "push" anything.  I am not a doctor and I am not giving medical advice, just my opinion based on my experience and what others have experienced on this forum.

"I'm not a doctor" thank Gosh, you do more help as a Benzobuddie!

[[ka...]]

Brain acting up buzzz ringgg 

[[Kr...]]

I feel like I’m being “spoken at” in a very militant fashion. 
I’m very upset and hope to find some softer words that can minister to my already broken and weary sleep deprived spirit .
 

[[Th...]]

Sorry you feel that way, but hundreds of others have found comfort in these words.  Also, remember that our feelings and emotions can be super ramped up during withdrawal.  I remember during my withdrawal being unable to watch Hallmark Christmas movies because they were "too stimulating."  All of this fades and passes with time.  Peace  

Edited February 6 by [Th...]

[[Kr...]]

Please pray for me. 

[[Co...]]

20 hours ago, [[K...] said:

I feel like I’m being “spoken at” in a very militant fashion. 
I’m very upset and hope to find some softer words that can minister to my already broken and weary sleep deprived spirit .
 

Hello @[Kr...]

Who is 'speaking' to you in this way?

By the way, I responded to your 'Sad' thread. I hope it reassures you.

[[Kr...]]

On 06/02/2024 at 18:28, [[C...] said:

Hello @[Kr...]

Who is 'speaking' to you in this way?

By the way, I responded to your 'Sad' thread. I hope it reassures you.

@[Co...]thank you for that nice response. You are very kind.