Clobetasol and other corticosteroids

[[Ph...]]

Does anyone know if taking these topically has effects on GABA?  I have to take every week or 2 due to  dermatitis. Apply to scalp and use less potent steroids on face. Just hoping these drugs wont mess with me. Cant find much on the internet on this.

[[...]]

Hey Phizzle.  There have been several accounts of folks taking a topical steroid and having a huge setback from it.  If I were faced with using a topical steroid I would opt to find another solution.

 

Here is one such account tho it is a different steroid than you describe:  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=191263.0.  It took him over 2 years to recover from a single does that got into a cut on his skin.

 

Corticosteroids are cross tolerant to benzo and can have the same withdrawal or worse affect according to this write up:  https://www.benzowarrior.com/cross-tolerance

 

Hope this helps.

[[Ph...]]

Thank you for the information.  Man that is scary.  I've been reliant on steroids for 15+ years...  I will get with a dermatologist and see if i can try other options.

[[Co...]]

Mine recommended protopic but haven't used it yet.

[[Ph...]]

Now i am kind of wondering if my original symptoms before I even got thrown on Ativan and Lexapro were due to the long use of steroids.  I typically only used 1x every week sometimes 2 weeks.

 

In January i started getting hypnic jerks and adrenaline rushes at night as i was falling asleep.  Developed into full blown health anxiety and panic attacks because i had no idea what was going on.

[[Ar...]]

Some of us have no choice because of psoriasis on our face, so please lay off the fear mongering.

[[Li...]]

Does anyone know if taking these topically has effects on GABA?  I have to take every week or 2 due to  dermatitis. Apply to scalp and use less potent steroids on face. Just hoping these drugs wont mess with me. Cant find much on the internet on this.

 

You are not alone in not being able to find much research regarding the effects of corticosteroids on GABA.  I have been been researching this topic for a while now and haven’t found much either.

 

I began my research after reading that the Benzodiazepine Information Coalition includes corticosteroids on its ‘Medications & Supplements of Concern’ list.  However, only one study is provided to support this concern — an animal study published in 2009 (see link below).  The researchers took hypothalamic slices from the brains of decapitated rats.  They found that dexamethasone facilitated the release of GABA from the hypothalamic slices but inhibited the release of glutamate.  Needless to say, generalizing the results of this animal study to human use of corticosteroids would be inappropriate.

 

The other ‘reference’ I found is a statement in a Wikipedia article on benzodiazepine dependence (see link below):

 

There is cross tolerance between alcohol, the benzodiazepines, the barbiturates, the nonbenzodiazepine drugs, and corticosteroids, which all act by enhancing the GABAA receptor's function via modulating the chloride ion channel function of the GABAA receptor.

 

However, when I checked the five pieces of supporting evidence provided, I discovered that four of them were irrelevant (they weren’t about corticosteroids) and the fifth pertained to neurosteroids not corticosteroids.  Moreover, it was another animal study published in 2000. The researchers reported that ganaxolone, an analog of the neurosteroid allopregnanolone, reduced the anticonvulsant potency of diazepam in rats after 7 days of administration.  Again, it would be inappropriate to generalize the results from this animal study to humans.

 

Let’s hope another member has located more current research on this topic and will share information and citations with us!

 

Links:

 

Glucocorticoids Regulate Glutamate and GABA Synapse-Specific Retrograde Transmission via Divergent Nongenomic Signaling Pathways - 2009

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2775558/

 

Benzodiazepine Dependence - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_dependence

 

Chronic Treatment with the Neuroactive Steroid Ganaxolone in the Rat Induces Anticonvulsant Tolerance to Diazepam but Not to Itself - 2000

https://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/295/3/1241

[[Ph...]]

Thanks for the info Libertas!  I know i will surely be a guinea pig on this, as I really don't know that anything else keeps my seborrheic dermatitis in check accept the topical steroids.  I do use anti fungal shampoos and stuff to slow it down a bit but have had to apply steroids for a long time.

 

I may have to choose between being a scaly red rashy mess or going through terrible setbacks post taper.  Neither sounds super appealing to me.

[[Li...]]

You’re welcome, Phizzle.  I’m glad to see your sense of humor is intact; this will serve you well during benzodiazepine withdrawal and recovery.  You also have already mastered a key lesson about tapering … i.e,  tapers are experiments in which we are both the principal investigator and the subject (guinea pig).

 

When we have a medical condition that requires treatment, all we can do is what you’re doing — research the treatment suggested as best we can.  If we don’t encounter major red flags, our next step is to trial it and monitor our response.

 

A while back my ENT recommended the use of a nasal corticosteriod. I was reluctant to do so because of the BIC caution and the oft repeated claim that ‘corticosteroids are cross tolerant with benzodiazepines.’ However, after I conducted my own research on this topic and did not find sufficient credible research to substantiate the concern or the claim, I decided to forge ahead. 

 

Because I had learned that this class of drug has its own set of benefits and harms, I proceeded with caution.  I titrated my dose gradually upward while monitoring for side effects and adverse reactions.  When I was confident I was able to tolerate it,  I went to full dose and completed the treatment course.  I then gradually titrated my dose downward (i.e. tapered) as recommended in the literature (my understanding is that stopping corticosteriods abruptly can cause problems, especially if they have been used for a long time).

 

I should add that, in addition to the above research, I also checked for interactions between the corticosteriod in the nasal spray and my benzodiazepine.  If you have not already done so, I suggest you check for interactions among and between the active ingredient(s) in the corticosteriod cream, the anti-fungal shampoo you’ve been using, and your benzodiazepine.  Here are links to the two interaction checkers I usually use:

 

Drug Interactions Checker - For Drugs, Food & Alcohol

https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

(includes interactions with food as well as a ‘Professional’ tab for in-depth information about the interaction.)

 

Drug Interaction Checker - DrugBank

https://go.drugbank.com/drug-interaction-checker

(includes citations to relevant literature)

 

[[Co...]]

I think it's an individual thing. I was in cortizone withdrawal and had very similar symptoms as those linked to benzo withdrawals, my withdrawal also went in windows and waves only I didn't realize and back then I was lucky in terms of symptoms, speed it was improving and things I could do to help myself, right now not so much. I know someone who got rid of their psoriasis by using mild hyperbaric oxygen therapy and someone else who got rid of it through keto diet. It's also an i flammatory disease.

[[Ar...]]

Frankly I'm more concerned about what the steroids do to your skin....with long term use they will thin out the skin on your face....so I try to use them infrequently as possible.

[[Ph...]]

My skin has thinned a bit but not too terribly.  I am middle aged and not terribly worried anymore about some thinning skin.  If left untreated i'd look like a hideous beast.  I am however open to trying other options.  I think UV light therapy helps some as well.  I will have to check into the hyperbaric chamber mentioned by Cocodot

[[Co...]]

To clarify, it was a person not injured by meds who solved their psoriasis that way. She later solved her long covid brain fog and temperature changes with it as well. Some people seem to use mhbot for med injuries too though.

[[Ar...]]

My skin has thinned a bit but not too terribly.  I am middle aged and not terribly worried anymore about some thinning skin.  If left untreated i'd look like a hideous beast.  I am however open to trying other options.  I think UV light therapy helps some as well.  I will have to check into the hyperbaric chamber mentioned by Cocodot

UV light therapy for sure.  I find that getting sun is helpful.

[[Ph...]]

I just made an appointment with new dermatologist to get my sebderm checked out.  I think they sound open to try PDT therapy which has some promising results.  Not liking what i am reading about the steroids i've been on for years.  Especially now and how they could interact with benzos.  Lord I hope light treatment works!

[[dj...]]

I would be very surprised if a topical corticosteroid could wreak havoc on our nervous systems.  They are local and designed only to affect the area where it is applied. 

 

For steroids that are injected into bloodstream or ingested, these are systemic corticosteroids and are likely the ones causing problems. 

[[Ph...]]

I would be very surprised if a topical corticosteroid could wreak havoc on our nervous systems.  They are local and designed only to affect the area where it is applied. 

 

For steroids that are injected into bloodstream or ingested, these are systemic corticosteroids and are likely the ones causing problems.

 

I tend to agree.  I am trying my best to get off them regardless after nearly 20 years of use.  Even if it is only once or twice a week at most.  Hoping i can keep the sebderm at bay with antifungal shampoos and lotions.

 

Probably the main worry would be getting the steroids into an open scab or wound and then into your bloodstream a little more potent.  Regardless, it's not something I am going to add stress and worry over.