I'm on the brink of breakdown

[[Di...]]

I'm trying to keep this short, since it's hard for me to type

 

32 male, 2mg Diazepam, 8mg Suboxone 30mg Mirtazapine and 100mg Gabapentin. And in very bad condition with no professionals to help, I'm so lost and need advise.

[[Pa...]]

Hello DiaSubo, welcome to BenzoBuddies,

 

Which drug do you feel is your biggest problem right now?  Have you attempted to taper off any of them in the past?  Are you under a doctors care and if so, for what conditions?

 

I know how difficult it can be to type when you feel like this but we need more information in order to help you so please try to let us know what you need from us and we’ll offer what we can.

 

I’ll provide some links to get you started but look forward to learning more so I can better direct you.

 

Pamster

 

Colorado Consortium Benzodiazepine Deprescribing Guidance

 

Planning Your Withdrawal (Taper)

 

Withdrawal Support (during your taper)

 

Ashton Manual symptom list

[[Di...]]

I tapered of over 3 years from 7,5mg to the 2mg im taking right now, all without almost any symtpoms until 4-5 weeks ago. My last taper was 3-4 months ago, i tapered really slowly (0.5mg steps)

 

In March, I suddenly, out of nowhere, started to get panic attacks again, like i never experienced them before. NOTHING makes them stop, not even taking my dose earlier or splitting the dose does help.

 

And I'm literally unable to live like that anymore, i can't leave the house, i don't know what's going on, it's pure hell, I'm trembling like crazy, i don't know how to get to my doctor, my teeth are shuddering, i feel hot and cold at the same time, I'm crying none stop. I just want this to end! There is no way I'm tapering down anytime soon with how im feeling.

 

My doctor told me to raise my Diazepam dose a little, sc can stabilize myself, and then try it again in 2-3 month, w i'm feeling better and my therapy started. I'm terrified to do that, it's to scary for me, I'm so afraid because of all the kindling story, because even a low raise of dosage can cause this, right?

 

On the otherside, i see no other way, my doc prescribed me 100mg Gabapentin, which worked great for exactly 2 days, and now it doesn't help anymore.

 

The doctor im at, who prescribing all my Medicine is honestly pretty clueless about anything like a kindle effect, or tapering in general, which is a bit shocking, because he is specialized in addiction treatment (i was never really considered addicted, only dependent on my medis, i have no experience with street drugs like heroin for example, and never took anything to get high, but because my anxiety was so severe and my GP at the time prescribed me the wrong drugs at the wrong moment, and of course poor judgment on my side, because i wanted to feel better so much and where desperate to feel better )

 

Everyone tells me, to raise my Dia dose, but I'm to scared, but i can't live like that anymore, I live alone, have no friends or anyone. I have my dad, but he is away most of the time, because of his work. I'm always alone on weekends, and i feel like im dying. I see no way out, please help me, i want this to stop!

 

Edit: i keep forgetting stuff that's important because im so anxious, sorry i'm 32 years old, and been on Suboxone since 2013 and on Diazepam since 2015. I not only have a severe anxiety and panic disorder (way before i took any drugs) but also OCD and the Tourette Syndrome, which all combined make my life a mess. And it feels impossible to manage. It's very hard to get real help here, addiction clinics are all really bad, addiction specialists are rare and booked out for literally years. BUT, i have my dad, my social worker, and there are people cpming once a week to my home to check if im okay and talk to me a little bit, i don't know the correct english word for it. But it's the closest thing to therapy i have.

[[Pa...]]

I’m sorry to hear you were hit by such severe symptoms after your last reduction, but I agree with your doctor, it might be a good idea to go back to the last dose you felt okay on.  I don’t believe you need to worry about kindling, that involves the complete cessation of the drug, not an updose. Kindling

 

You also may need to slow your taper down, this might involve switching to titration, its a little bit of a hassle but if it keeps you functioning, then its worth it. Titration FAQ’s

 

 

[[Di...]]

Thank you so much for your answer, it really made me emotinal, i wrote in another forum today and they got pretty mean about updosing, which obviously didn't help me in my situation, even though they may have been right.

 

But what you said calmed me down a little, i took exactly one drip more today (0,5mg) and I'm feeling okay right now. Maybe i don't have to go higher, i was pretty stable on 2.5mg.

 

Luckily my doc gives me a lot of space for my taper and is open to suggestions, even though he isn't really knowledgeable about this topic, but i think he feels how serious i take getting clean.

 

They way i used to taper, was probably not really accurate i have the liquid and reduced in drops, not in miligram. So always took 1 drop less when i felt stable.

 

This worked really good.. until it didn't. I never really had issues with tolerance i was pretty "lucky" in that regard since for example 5mg felt subjectivly always like it did when i started diazepam 2015. That's probably the reason o never really had to raise my dose.

 

I'm really bad at math and english isn't my main language and i have difficulty with less common terms. If i have to taper from 2,5mg what would be a good dose to taper down, after i hopefully get stable again?

 

And thank you so much for your support, it really means the world!

 

[[Pa...]]

I’m sorry you were treated poorly, we do our best to treat each other with kindness because lets face it, not many understand what we go through so we shouldn’t have to defend ourselves to the people who do. 

 

I’m thrilled to hear you’re already on a liquid dose, but perhaps it’s time to get rid of that dropper and graduate to a syringe.  You could dilute your solution with distilled water which would mean its no longer a true solution but instead a suspension which is no big deal, you’d just have to agitate it before ingesting.  But the great part is, this will allow you to have more control over your taper, you can reduce slower and stay functional.

 

If you’ll start a thread on the titration board, we can help you with the math, it won’t be me because I’m terrible at it too. 

[[Be...]]

Can you reply with what you take on a daily basis right now... and when you take it.

 

Suboxone is an odd drug to have you on for the last 7 years.

[[Di...]]

This sounds REALLY good, and exactly like what i missed during my taper, i will had over there ASAP. I didn't expect to get so many helpful answers in such a short amount of time. This turned out to be not such a bad day after all, I'm so glad i found this forum  :'(

 

I take 8mg Suboxone one half at 1 p.m.and one in the evening at around 8 p.m., i tried tapering it 2018 and was clean for two weeks, but the withdrawal was horrible and way to much for me to handle at the time so they put me back on it, and decided that the Diazepam should be the priority, because it causes way more problems for me.

 

The Diazepam is as of today at 2,5mg, raised also today, from 2mg which i took since february. Until a few days ago, i exclusivly took it right before going to bed, because i was kind of obsessed with "not letting it dictate my day or anxiety" which was no longer possible, because my anxiety got so bad, then i took all 4 drips spread over the day which is what I'm doing right now.

 

Then i have 30mg of Mirtazapine taken since around 2011, i take it around 2 hours before bedtime, if my anxiety gets really bad, i sometimes take 15mg as needed, and then only 15mg before sleeping

 

Then i had 100mg Gapapentin, which i took around 6 p.m, i started this 5 days ago, but i don't want to continue it, because I'm not sure if it makes my symptoms worse instead of better

[[Pa...]]

Thanks for providing so many details, the more we know, the better we can help you.  If you can, it would be great to put the pertinent medication history into your signature, that way, members can see at a glance where you are.  Here are the instructions, you’ll only have 750 characters to work with.

 

I wanted to give you the link for the titration board. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=164.0

 

About the Gabapentin, some members find it helpful for symptoms but it can be difficult to get off of, I’m thinking if you don’t find it helpful, you might want to think about risk vs benefit before you’re on it much longer.  I don’t have experience and don’t want to get in between you and your doctor but it might be a good idea to check out this thread in support groups. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=84267.0

 

I hope we haven’t overwhelmed you with so much information. 

[[Be...]]

I agree with considering removing the gabapentin first. If you have to, you can open the capsules and dump out half and put the capsule back together as a method of weening but realistically if you have only tried 100mg for a few days and dont feel better or worse you can probably just stop it.

 

I am not a doctor, but gabapentin is  very poorly understood medication. There is atill alot of debate about its mechanism of action, and both humans and animals have a HUGE variety of responses to it.  For example, in dogs (im in veterinary med) a dog may take 100mg of gabapentin and become heavily sedated, or that dog could require a dose of 1500mg to achieve any effect.

 

It is the same for humans. Some people take well over 1000mg of gabapentin 3 times a day, whereas some people take a very small amount. It is wodely used because it is extremely "safe" when it comes to toxic levels. In fact it is nearly i impossible to overdose a dog on gabapentin....

 

However, there are alot of people who found it very difficult to come off of it after being on it long term. What we do know about it, is that it seems to dull the experience of nerve impulses, which is why it is viewed as both a pain medication and mild sedative.

 

I feel like there is some history missing, but my gut reaction would be to stop the gabapentin and then start by being very consistent with your other medications.

 

Take the valium, mirtazapine, and Suboxone at the same amounts at the exact same time of day for a week and see if you stabilize. Dont focus on weening off the medications until you are stable.... these are medications you have taken for a very long time.

 

The other thong that is there is no judgement here. We have all been through bad times and even made stupid choices along the way. Be open and honest and hou will find the most help.

 

Try to think about what changed recently that happened around the same time you experienced a sudden worsening of symptoms. Also if you have used drugs, alchohol, or opiods etc recently... (not saying you have) ...just that sometimes we hide or forget information for whatever reasons that can very helpful to fi ding the road to a better life.

 

 

Im not very familiar with suboxone. It is primarily a medication used to treat opiod addiction. Do you remember why you were origonally placed on it?

[[Re...]]

I think tapering the benzo last is what is medically recommended in polypharmacy cases. AND I do not know how Suboxone fits into that equation. Where are you located? Let's see if we can all come up with some additional resources for you based on location.

[[Di...]]

Hi you all,

 

Sorry for my late reply, i had a very tough week. My doctor finally raised my diazepam Dosis to 2,5mg. And it sometimes works. But i'm still feeling comlletly unstable, at least once a day i start to shake out of nowhere, it's almost always in the afternoon, or when I have to drive into the city. After the tremor the anxiety starts and heart palpations, i hate this so much. If i take half of my Mirtazapin, it calms down after around 15 minutes, but i don't know why the Mirtazapine works like that, and if it's even okay to take it like that, but it's the only thing that reliabily stops my panic attacks. I could take 15mg at around 2PM as a "preventive" measure, but my health anxiety makes me scared that all the pills i take are "harder" on my liver, if i spread it over the day since it's always metabolizing something. I'm really scared to get sick because of that, i don't even know if that's a thing it's just a stupid fear my brain gifts me.

 

Health anxiety is my biggest problem right now, the anxiety would be half as bad, if knew in fact it's only anxiety. But I'm always scared that it's something like Parkinson, just masking as Anxiety. 2019 i had a clear brain MRI. 1 year ago, i had a clean bloodwork, clean EEG and EMG, clean 24hour bloodpressure and ECG monitor which where both good beside a few harmless extrasystoles, and i also just had a ECG 2 month ago. But i can't stop thinking something is wrong with me. The tremors are really bad, and i even have them sometimes after the diazepam. Also the heart palpations freak me out.

 

I take the Suboxone because 10 years ago, my doctor prescribed me tilidin for a half a year, and then suddenly stopped giving me it, and i was scared of withdrawals so i went to a addiction doctor, who prescribed me 1,2mg at the time. Which went up to 8mg over the years.

 

I tried getting rid of the Suboxone in 2018 and where clean for 2 weeks, but the withdrawal where so painful that i just couldn't do it at that time. In the same year, i went on a detox for the diazepam, where they put me from 7,5 mg to 0mg in 2 weeks, which was an absolute disaster, and i relapsed LITERALLY the second i went out of the clinic. The Mirtazapine is the only thing i never tried to stop, because i felt, it always really helped well to stop panic attacks.

 

One thing i forgot to mention, I'm also suffering from the tourette syndrome, which is why I'm prescribed medical cannabis. I took a strain with 18/1 THC to CBD rate. And really really low doses, almost homeopathic, but since my anxiety is back like that, i'm scared it will make things worse. Which sucks, because i really need it for my OCD and tourette symptoms. So I'm thinking about trying a strain with a way higher CBD content, does anyone have experience with that? I hope a higher CBD content could also help my anxiety?

 

I last took the Gabapentin on Friday, and it felt not really like a problem, i just stopped taking it. The anxiety didn't went away, but it also didn't get worse, slightly better, if anything.

 

Edit:Oh, and i'm located in Baden-Baden, Germany. I'm sorry if my english is sometimes hard to read, i wasn't very good back at school, and have since to tried to teach me the missing vocables myself, but I'm not really confident with all the medical terms, and I'm sorry if some of my texts read a little confusing or something like that.

[[Pa...]]

Thank you for sharing more of your story, health anxiety is a common issue for us, the fear the benzo instills in us is difficult to live with but understanding that its the drug causing you to feel this way can help you reason your way through the fear.  I found the Ashton Manual symptom list helped me feel better.

 

You can get some suggestions about CBD on this thread, no need to start a new topic, just hit reply and ask your question. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=165140.0

 

I encourage you to post to other parts of the forum, most members don’t hang out of the introductions board, its mainly for newcomers to introduce themselves. 

[[op...]]

Regarding the mirtazapine, you really should take the same amount every day. It sounds like you’re taking it as needed, which means you might also be having Interdose or tolerance withdrawal from mirtazapine.

 

There is a mirtazapine board, and I would encourage you to post any questions there about the drug.

 

In the meantime, please take the same dose every day. It honestly doesn’t have to be the same time every day, and you can split it up if you like, but it must be the same milligrams every day. You can taper this AFTER you taper the Valium. Right now, you want to keep it steady.

[[Di...]]

Thank you so much for your answer, it's always 30mg a day, but i usually took it right before sleeping. Since the anxiety started  being so bad, i split one 30mg Pill in half, and took 15mg when i had a panic attack, and then the other 15mg before sleeping. As far as i know it shouldn't work like that, ending panic attacks, but it really does, after 20-30 minutes i calm down. It somehow even more effective than my diazepam dose, which is really weird.

 

But i never changed the dose i took over a day. I was just scared that this would be somehow bad for my liver if i split over 2 smaller doses, my health anxiety gives me fears like that. Whenever i find something that is helping me, my OCD and Health Anxiety find ways, to still not make me feel good about it.

[[op...]]

Got it. No, I wouldn't worry about taking it that way. Mirtazapine makes a lot of people sleepy. It may very well be helping with the panic attacks. You just want to make sure that you keep the daily dose consistent so you don't go through withdrawals, but it has a long half life, and it wouldn't give you interdose withdrawals if you're splitting the dose.

 

Try to focus on getting off the benzos. Microtapering is a good way to go once you stabilize. You'll get through this!